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2017 offensive line?
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bobdevine


Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 3025
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: 2017 offensive line? Reply with quote

With the signing of free-agents Ronald Leary and Menelik Watson, what will the o-line look like?

One possibility:
LT: Donald Stephenson
LG: Ronald Leary
C: Matt Paradis
RG: Michael Schofield
RT: Menelik Watson

Backups are Garcia and McGovern (OG spots) and Ty Sambrailo (both OT spots).

Looking at this line-up makes me raise the odds of drafting an OL in the first round...

(EDIT: name change)


Last edited by bobdevine on Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Counselor


Joined: 31 Jan 2017
Posts: 2072
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 2017 offensive line? Reply with quote

bobdevine wrote:
With the signing of free-agents Donald Leary and Menelik Watson, what will the o-line look like?

One possibility:
LT: Donald Stephenson
LG: Donald Leary
C: Matt Paradis
RG: Michael Schofield
RT: Menelik Watson

Backups are Connor McGovern (both OG spots) and Ty Sambrailo (both OT spots).

Looking at this line-up makes me raise the odds of drafting an OL in the first round...


It's Ronald
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Broncoquake


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LT Rookie/Trade
LG- Leary
C- Paradis
RG- Garcia/McGovern
RT- Watson
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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 12223
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Re: 2017 offensive line? Reply with quote

Counselor wrote:
bobdevine wrote:
With the signing of free-agents Donald Leary and Menelik Watson, what will the o-line look like?

One possibility:
LT: Donald Stephenson
LG: Donald Leary
C: Matt Paradis
RG: Michael Schofield
RT: Menelik Watson

Backups are Connor McGovern (both OG spots) and Ty Sambrailo (both OT spots).

Looking at this line-up makes me raise the odds of drafting an OL in the first round...


It's Ronald



Yup, because THAT is the worst thing about this post


Seriously, the OP seems to have forgotten about Max Garcia and also, Stephenson surely has to be getting cut.


If there aren't any further additions then the OL is going to be Watson-Leary-Paradis-Garcia-Schofield with Sambrailo as the swing Tackle and McGovern as the swing inside guy

I do think we draft a tackle if the right guy is available but we are no longer pigeon holed into having to land one
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thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 3156
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the moves so far in free agency Leary is a mauler so it's looking more and more like we pair him with an Ot at the first pick.

It seems either Bolles or Cam Robinson are gonna be targets unless like many say a rabbit is pulled out of a hat.


I think with the move of Leary makes us set at guard. I love Lamp but between Leary, Schofield, Mcgovern, and Garcia I think we have enough depth with two starters emerging. And if we keep Stephenson he's another canidate for guard.


I really want Pat Effin from Ohio State and Anthony Garcia.

I think Garcia can start at right tackle and Watson Left tackle until Garcia develops. I love Effin I think he provides great depth and starter material for all 3 line positions.
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paul-mac


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to think Menelik gets a shot to compete at Left Tackle. His body type is more LT than RT, thinking back to when he was in the draft they said future LT but needs a few years to learn the game properly, now the proof is gonna be in the pudding.

I kinda love how the Raiders spent a second round pick and developed him for us.
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DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
Isn't CJ Anderson one of those dudes that replaced Terrell Davis? If so top 5 RB of all time.


Fify.
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jsthomp2007


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dudes...the Broncos will be getting a new LT...and probably some other competition through the draft...there has to be.

With Bolles and Leary and Watson along the line the will certainly be athletic and beefy.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Re: Lamp the beauty with him is he looks like a NFL Pro Bowl G ceiling. But he's played T and excelled. That leaves open the possibility of using him at RT or either G. Unlike Feeney (who's likely going Rd 2 sometimes).

I would be cautious in assuming we are set at G long term. Garcia is no lock to be more than a swing G yet - he's young but we don't know if he will make the leap. And that applies 10x for McGovern. Both are promising but can't assume they make the leap and are locks to start for 2018. That's what got us into this current mess at OL and 3-4 DE.

Finally this is Schofield's last year before becoming a UFA. A key part to his value is his cheap cost. Unless he really explodes this year I think he's a goner next year.

Put it all together I think we are drafting both a T and a G this draft. If we draft Lamp Rd 1 or Feeney Rd 2 because they are at the top of the overall BPA board I won't mind. I would always prefer we do it that way than be forced by need so I hope we find a T without losing a Day 1-2 pick.
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Last edited by Broncofan on Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bobdevine


Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 3025
Location: Wisconsin
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 2017 offensive line? Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:

Seriously, the OP seems to have forgotten about Max Garcia and also, Stephenson surely has to be getting cut.


I didn't forget about Garcia. However I am not sure that he will be a starter. Maybe the OL will use one "heavy" OG and one "agile" OG. I don't know how the new line will be coached.

So far it appears that Stephenson will be kept. He was poor at RT but he might be moved to another spot.
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paul-mac


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Re: 2017 offensive line? Reply with quote

bobdevine wrote:
paul-mac wrote:

Seriously, the OP seems to have forgotten about Max Garcia and also, Stephenson surely has to be getting cut.


I didn't forget about Garcia. However I am not sure that he will be a starter. Maybe the OL will use one "heavy" OG and one "agile" OG. I don't know how the new line will be coached.

So far it appears that Stephenson will be kept. He was poor at RT but he might be moved to another spot.


It could be that they think he's a better fit in the new system.
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DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
Isn't CJ Anderson one of those dudes that replaced Terrell Davis? If so top 5 RB of all time.


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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
Posts: 12223
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just saw that Donald Stephenson's $4m base salary becomes fully guaranteed if he's on the roster tomorrow, so today is the deadline for him to be released.


Given that we've got about $20m in cap room after the two DL signings, we need about $7m for rookies, but probably won't be signing many more FA's, plus Romo is looking unlikely at this point, I kinda think we keep Donald Stephenson. Sure he wasn't great last year but he should be a better fit in the new system. At the very least he can be one of the better swing tackles in the league and potentially allow us to cut Ty Sambrailo if he hasn't progressed.
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Victor Cruz Pun wrote:
DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
Isn't CJ Anderson one of those dudes that replaced Terrell Davis? If so top 5 RB of all time.


Fify.
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paul-mac


Joined: 12 Jul 2009
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Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donald Stephenson has taken a pay cut to stay
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Victor Cruz Pun wrote:
DavidatMIZZOU wrote:
Isn't CJ Anderson one of those dudes that replaced Terrell Davis? If so top 5 RB of all time.


Fify.
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paul-mac wrote:
Donald Stephenson has taken a pay cut to stay


It's trying to make lemonade out of lemons so I get why its being done - Stephenson has played both LT and RT. If he's taking a cut then being a backup is somewhat justifiable. He just wasn't very good at all last year. Maybe he's better in a power scheme but that's a leap of faith to have him be a starter. That's the issue right now as he's #2 on the current depth chart. No doubt that will change but that's far from ideal after the wave of starter level FA has passed.

It makes Elway's decision to pass on Whitworth all the more mystifying (Remember Renck confirmed this, Elway didn't get into bidding because of age concerns).

I have no problem looking for our LT of the future in the draft as we would have had to go there long term even had we signed Whitworth. But to go into the draft with Stephenson as one of the top 2 T is exactly what ppl feared. Unless Elway is willing to write off the 2017 season it almost certainly means we take a T Rd 1. Or trade but right now no one wants to deal because LT is so scarce. Not only is the draft weak in LT ready guys but this puts a ton of pressure barring a trade (which I'm afraid of how much it would cost given the scarcity) to go best T at 1.20 no matter how the board plays out, and who falls. That's a major mistake planning wise.

Oh well. Best case is to hold out hope a salary based cut like what happened with Phi and Evan Mathis in 2015, or a trade for a Staley like talent at draft day if the 49ers have a T fall into their lap Rd 2 that they would invest in long term.
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DiehardBronxFan


Joined: 03 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
Donald Stephenson has taken a pay cut to stay


It's trying to make lemonade out of lemons so I get why its being done - Stephenson has played both LT and RT. He just wasn't very good at all last year.

It makes Elway's decision to pass on Whitworth all the more mystifying (Remember Renck confirmed this, Elway didn't get into bidding because of age concerns).

I have no problem looking for our LT of the future in the draft as we would have had to go there long term even had we signed Whitworth. But to go into the draft with Stephenson as one of the top 2 T is exactly what ppl feared. Unless Elway is willing to write off the 2017 season it almost certainly means we take a T Rd 1. Or trade but right now no one wants to deal because LT is so scarce. Not only is the draft weak in LT ready guys but this puts a ton of pressure barring a trade (which I'm afraid of how much it would cost given the scarcity) to go best T at 1.20 no matter how the board plays out, and who falls. That's a major mistake planning wise.

Oh well. Best case is to hold out hope a salary based cut like what happened with Phi and Evan Mathis in 2015, or a trade for a Staley like talent at draft day if the 49ers have a T fall into their lap Rd 2 that they would invest in long term.


I hope Stephenson is no where around this team - was absolutely the worst part of a bad line and I don't see the scheme change making much difference in his case.

with the restructure, he gets $2M guaranteed now, the other $2M only if he makes the final 53 roster. Remember, he had a $2M dead money hit if we cut him. So, if I understand it right, this is a $0 insurance policy if they can't find a trade or don't like what they have on draft day or Menilik gets hurt on day 1 of training camp or.....

Hate that it's where we're at - he's garbage, but a smart play given the circumstances.

I still think Elway thinks he can get Room and trade Siemian for Staley.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DiehardBronxFan wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
paul-mac wrote:
Donald Stephenson has taken a pay cut to stay


It's trying to make lemonade out of lemons so I get why its being done - Stephenson has played both LT and RT. He just wasn't very good at all last year.

It makes Elway's decision to pass on Whitworth all the more mystifying (Remember Renck confirmed this, Elway didn't get into bidding because of age concerns).

I have no problem looking for our LT of the future in the draft as we would have had to go there long term even had we signed Whitworth. But to go into the draft with Stephenson as one of the top 2 T is exactly what ppl feared. Unless Elway is willing to write off the 2017 season it almost certainly means we take a T Rd 1. Or trade but right now no one wants to deal because LT is so scarce. Not only is the draft weak in LT ready guys but this puts a ton of pressure barring a trade (which I'm afraid of how much it would cost given the scarcity) to go best T at 1.20 no matter how the board plays out, and who falls. That's a major mistake planning wise.

Oh well. Best case is to hold out hope a salary based cut like what happened with Phi and Evan Mathis in 2015, or a trade for a Staley like talent at draft day if the 49ers have a T fall into their lap Rd 2 that they would invest in long term.


I hope Stephenson is no where around this team - was absolutely the worst part of a bad line and I don't see the scheme change making much difference in his case.

with the restructure, he gets $2M guaranteed now, the other $2M only if he makes the final 53 roster. Remember, he had a $2M dead money hit if we cut him. So, if I understand it right, this is a $0 insurance policy if they can't find a trade or don't like what they have on draft day or Menilik gets hurt on day 1 of training camp or.....

Hate that it's where we're at - he's garbage, but a smart play given the circumstances.

I still think Elway thinks he can get Room and trade Siemian for Staley.


Unfortunately, the 2M hit is in addition to the 2M roster guarantee - the 2M hit was from last year's 3M bonus, spread over 3 years (so 2M is left over). Elway guaranteed 2M of this year's 4M that was due to him. So we take a 4M cap hit if we release him pre-June 1, or 3M if we cut him post-June 1 designation (and the extra 1M cap hit in 2018 if we cut him post-June 1). The only way we cut him is literally if he's not good enough to be a top 8 OL on team, given it would only save 2M total, and cost us 4M overall (saving the last 1M hit for 2018's cap).

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/donald-stephenson-9884/

Re: salary room and trading for a LT, I agree that's the most likely scenario Elway is hoping for. But Siemian isn't happening to SF for 2 reasons. First, I think SF is either waiting for Cousins when he leaves WAS (no way he returns and SF tried hard for a deal this year for him alone, no one else) or they would be looking to get Sam Darnold or Rosen, either of the 2 elite 2018 draft QB prospects - both are way higher ranked overall than the 2017 class.

Secondly, I wouldn't deal Siemian from DEN's end because of the cheap cost control - keep in mind our 20-22M left needs to get rookies signed depth FA at DE WR etc. We have the room to take on Staley's 8.25M salary (subtract Siemian's 615K salary - net cost 7.6M), but not get another big salary guy to play QB.

I posted this on the Peko thread, but it's even more relevant here - this is DEN's salary cap right now:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/cap/

It says we have 25.7M left over, but keep in mind Peko and Kerr's deal isn't there - I'll assume 1M for Kerr (that's probably generous this early, but gotta guess). So let's put a 4.8M hit to the 25.7M left - that's just under 21M - and remember Stephenson could knock that down 2M more, and really, when you look at the savings being so small, you have to put the odds at him staying. So we are at 19M-21M, but more likely 19M. You cut 7.5M from Staley, that's 11.5M. You take away 6M rookie deals & min wage salaries, that's 5.5M. And that's with us trading Siemian away. We still need 1-2 DE's, a 3rd WR, maybe a ILB. We can cut Vernon Davis to save 2.8M more...but you get the idea. 19-21M (again Stephenson staying puts us at 19M) leaves room to take on a LT contract from the trade candidates, but little else - or you can acquire a QB at higher salary (even 8-10M has same effect), but can't get the LT trade. I think we all agree Romo behind this line is a terrible idea.

So, for the 2 reasons above, I don't see a Siemian for Staley deal, or Siemian for any LT deal. Could see SF deal Staley for a pick on or close to draft day if they get their LT of the future. But not before until they know they gave a 2018 LT to protect their QB. If SF is willing to deal Staley I totally see the fit, but until they know who replaces him I doubt any trade happens until closer to Draft Day - if you see SF pick their LT of the future , then the door's open for business. I just hope we aren't in such a position of zero leverage that we are forced to overpay before then, or on Draft Day.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.


Last edited by Broncofan on Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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