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Mike Mayock emergers as leader for GM
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yay or nay?
yay
35%
 35%  [ 6 ]
nay
64%
 64%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 17

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big44dog


Joined: 08 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly thought the hire of McGloughan meant Bruce's role was reduced to politicking with the league and the city and heading up the business end of the front office, marketing and such, and Scot was there as commander of the scouting, and player picking. Bruce played tough guy on scot at the senior bowl and things just snowballed from there. Clash of egos and Danny chose Bruce plain and simple. Maybe the demons were back, maybe not. Only thing that matters is FA is going well and I hope draft prep is going well also. Kirks situation will play out one way or the other we can only hope he's here long term.
As far as Mayock. I like his insight and of all the TV personalities out there I'd choose him as my GM, with Casserly a close secondAs far as his "misses" that were pointed out earlier in this thread, let's not forget how much agents play a role in the evaluators evaluation of these prospects, truth is the networks don't hold these guys accountable if their right or wrong, just if their popularity is up. I also agree that he's probably more suited to be a head scout than a GM but he probably wouldn't sign on for such a limited role. He was a scout for a bunch of years after his playing days (played for Belichick), so he knows how a FO works.
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We all thought that. But this is now the third time Snyder has publicly says he's relinquishing control and privately works to sabotage things from the inside.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/tired-of-the-redskins-dysfunction-theres-one-person-to-blame/2017/03/11/2aef60dc-05d3-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html?utm_term=.90d07667e231
Quote:


Scroll back over the last few years, and the pattern is distinct: No sooner is someone hired than the sabotaging and hatchet games begin. He gave Marty Schottenheimer roster control, and then whacked him after one season, because, as one employee told the The Washington Post, Snyder “wasn’t having any fun.”

Oh, every now and then Snyder makes a show of ceding control to an adult professional. But it never lasts long, and he always keeps an enabler by his side, a henchman or spy who reports to the owner’s box and sows internal mischief. He and Vinny Cerrato conspired to undermine every coach with “roster control” who came through the building, while making a series of laughably amateur decisions. Remember drafting Devin Thomas while passing on Jordy Nelson? Bringing in Donovan McNabb to play quarterback for Mike Shanahan?

Three ex-coaches have described to me how Snyder works: He claims publicly to cede authority to the professionals and pretends to be hands off, to avoid the heat and put it on others. But behind the scenes, he names a draft pick, or a high-priced free agent, and asks the coach if they should go get him. Do you want Albert Haynesworth? We can get Haynesworth. Let’s go to get Haynesworth. Do you want McNabb? We can get McNabb. Let’s go get McNabb. Why wouldn’t you want McNabb?

So now the coach starts sweating. What if he refuses the owner, and doesn’t go after Haynesworth? What if Haynesworth winds up on another team and makes a big play against Washington? Now he’s the guy who passed on Haynesworth. So the coach goes and gets him, and tries to make it work. And that’s how it starts. Then, when it turns out it was a bad choice in the first place and it throws off the locker room and the scheme and the salary structure, the coach starts sweating again. Because now it looks like his fault. Pretty soon the locker room starts to question his judgment and authority, and wonder who’s really the shot-caller around here, anyway?

You know what happens next because you’ve seen it seventy-zillion times. Pretty soon there are divisions in the building, and then comes the pattern of harassment to try to force a resignation. The small public humiliations. The weird managerial duplications and alignments: “advisers” are brought in to be over-the-shoulder watchers. Then come the explosive shouts behind closed doors, and reports that the owner has berated someone


Nailed it
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
We all thought that. But this is now the third time Snyder has publicly says he's relinquishing control and privately works to sabotage things from the inside.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/tired-of-the-redskins-dysfunction-theres-one-person-to-blame/2017/03/11/2aef60dc-05d3-11e7-ad5b-d22680e18d10_story.html?utm_term=.90d07667e231
Quote:


Scroll back over the last few years, and the pattern is distinct: No sooner is someone hired than the sabotaging and hatchet games begin. He gave Marty Schottenheimer roster control, and then whacked him after one season, because, as one employee told the The Washington Post, Snyder “wasn’t having any fun.”

Oh, every now and then Snyder makes a show of ceding control to an adult professional. But it never lasts long, and he always keeps an enabler by his side, a henchman or spy who reports to the owner’s box and sows internal mischief. He and Vinny Cerrato conspired to undermine every coach with “roster control” who came through the building, while making a series of laughably amateur decisions. Remember drafting Devin Thomas while passing on Jordy Nelson? Bringing in Donovan McNabb to play quarterback for Mike Shanahan?

Three ex-coaches have described to me how Snyder works: He claims publicly to cede authority to the professionals and pretends to be hands off, to avoid the heat and put it on others. But behind the scenes, he names a draft pick, or a high-priced free agent, and asks the coach if they should go get him. Do you want Albert Haynesworth? We can get Haynesworth. Let’s go to get Haynesworth. Do you want McNabb? We can get McNabb. Let’s go get McNabb. Why wouldn’t you want McNabb?

So now the coach starts sweating. What if he refuses the owner, and doesn’t go after Haynesworth? What if Haynesworth winds up on another team and makes a big play against Washington? Now he’s the guy who passed on Haynesworth. So the coach goes and gets him, and tries to make it work. And that’s how it starts. Then, when it turns out it was a bad choice in the first place and it throws off the locker room and the scheme and the salary structure, the coach starts sweating again. Because now it looks like his fault. Pretty soon the locker room starts to question his judgment and authority, and wonder who’s really the shot-caller around here, anyway?

You know what happens next because you’ve seen it seventy-zillion times. Pretty soon there are divisions in the building, and then comes the pattern of harassment to try to force a resignation. The small public humiliations. The weird managerial duplications and alignments: “advisers” are brought in to be over-the-shoulder watchers. Then come the explosive shouts behind closed doors, and reports that the owner has berated someone


Nailed it
I say child please to the bolded! Laughing One damn unnamed employee is leaking things? That's their great source? That employee could be anyone and could hate Snyder for other reasons or whatever, maybe they're a Cowboys or eagles fan, who knows?

This is such a fluff and hit job piece that I'm shocked tge washington post editors even allowed it to be published,

I'm not a Snyder fan or appoligist because of what he did last decade to this organization when we had a few good coaches and gm's on the staff but this article is highly questionable IMHO.

Every owner does this, Casserly and Gibbs said that Jack Kent Cooke did this all the time to them but they had the balls to ignore him and make what they thought was the better decision. They said sometimes it was Cokke's suggestion, sometimes it wasn't.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
ripsean21 wrote:
I just can't believe we got rid of the one guy in our front office who just loves this game so much he genuinely puts things into place the way he does I just can't get over the fact we just lost the main piece we needed to build a legitimate winner. I don't hate our FA but it just feels like a hallow haul. Players were actually progressing here and you could just see these players sticking together on the field it was noticeable! We lost more then just a guy who knows how to judge and pair players! We lost a guy who knew how to relate and get players to give everything they got and I think we will start to see just how much these players player for the coaches or for Scot. It is well known how much players credit him for being involved in their development and having their backs and being honest with them! We got rid of the only real honest voice in our FO because the constant group of yes men just will never understand ythese players aren't robots. You can mention all the names that could and should come here but I can promise we aren't getting anyone close to what we just lost and it's a shame! Not a fan of looking back at the past but you know I just can't help but feel like in 3 years we're going to look back and say I can't believe just how close we actually were to being good compared to where we are. I hope I'm wrong and I don't want this team to struggle but year after year Scot picked the type of players I really enjoy scouting and watching film on. Just as a fan of this team I feel like we have been robbed of the first real thing this fanbase could believe in and I just don't see any way we're going to recover as long as we have guys who can't just do their job and work as a team in the FO and let the people do what they do best and do it their way without interfering.
I think there's a lot to what everyone had to deal with in terms of Scot's demons that we'll never really truly know about or hear about from the organization because they're not going to come out and say that Scot's drinking had become an issue like it was in the past in San Fran & Seattle.

This should be taken as me hating Scot, I loved the guy as a talent evaluator and football guy and wanted him as our GM for the next 30 years or whatever but I've heard that Scot was drunk a lot. I heard he came to the lockeroom sometimes drunk and that at the end of the season he took a young DB - my guess is Breeland - off the practice field and into his office to rip him because he was complaint about what Barry and the defensive cosxhjg staff were asking him to do which, if it was Breeland, that was playing the slot the last month fkthe season.

Apparently, Bruce saw this or heard about it - probably from Jay - and that was the final straw for Bruce.

Bruce wanted Jay and coaches to do the coaching and McCloughan to just do his job and build the best roster he could in the offseason and during the season to replace players if they had gotten hurt.

It was Jay's job to coach the team in the way he saw fit, not McCloughan or anyone else LDE.. Snyder and Allen gave Jay that power and if this report is correct, Scot overstepped his power, shows up Jay in front of the team and everyone on the practice field


Where are these reports? Where is Breelands statement on this actually happening? No player has came out and said anything negative about him, so this leads me to believe a lot of this negative stuff is plain BS. Cooley late freaking apology goes to show a lot of his comments where out of line. Cooley wasn't even suspended or anything after those comments. Really would be smart if that was a start to fixing things with PR, fans, players, and coaches of the organization.
He just hates McCloughan, you are wasting your breath.
I really wish you'd have more respect for other posters and quit lying about their opinions. You couldn't couldn't be more wrong about what I believe and you constantly are. It's sad because I take you as an incredibly bright guy but you constantly misinterpret my posts on a daily basis and spreads lies about me that frankly I've become beyond tired about.

What you're doing is extreme disrespectful after I've constantly told you to stop for days and months!

Just stop it!

I don't hate McCloughan! I never did and never will. I'm feel sorry for even reporting what I hear on the radio from people who are more in the know than us because of the constant BS that I have to deal with from trolls like yourself.

Just do what we are supposed to do in this forum and focus on the posts and football, not the poster. Leave me out of your witch hunt.
Oh please. Get off your high horse. You've crapped on him for months now after the fact you want to act like you supported him. You never did. I also think its a joke that you can support a snake like Bruce Allen.
I never wanted him fired and you know it, I've never once said that on this board. All I've said is that his two first round draft picks didn't work out tremendously well considering one became a guard and several defensive players we passed on that I wanted to draft amongst others - including yourself - have been pro bowl players had past two years.

If that doesn't upset and disapoint you what will? Other picks didn't work out either, like Smith being inconsistent and Matt Jones - who 99% of Redskins fans hated when he was drafted and even more now - hasn't become what Mccloughan promised he would become!

When he said Jones would be like Lynch or Gore, I and many people believed him and that's the reason Morrus wasn't re-signed because McCloughan was for SURE that Jones was going to go a stud and Morris wasn't as talented.

Now those comments seem like a joke just like when Shanahan said he'd stake his reputation on Grissman and Beck who ended up being worse than the two QBs he shipped out of town before them - Campbell & McNabb.

I'm not making his stuff and you know it. Take Norman out free agent signings and it's the worse this franchise might have ever done since free agency started 25 years ago.

I keep saying I believed in him and I did, but he missed a hell of a lot and that's just the gods to honest truth. I wanted him to succeed for decades because if he succeeded we would win Super Bowls, but he hadn't yet and he needed to do better than what he did in the 2015 & 16 off seasons if the skins were going to be better than average this season.
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
I never wanted him fired and you know it, I've never once said that on this board. All I've said is that his two first round draft picks didn't work out tremendously well considering one became a guard and several defensive players we passed on that I wanted to draft amongst others - including yourself - have been pro bowl players had past two years.


Are you for real right now? You've been on Brandon Scherff's jock strap since we got him.

turtle28 wrote:
Brandon Scherff has the talent to make the pro bowl as a guard this year or next year and be a perennial pro bowl guard for the next five to ten years.

turtle28 wrote:
If we hadn't drafted Scherff, our OL would be the worst in the league. As it stands right now, we have two issues with our OL, and RG isn't one of them. Scherff has faced Williams two years in a row and has yet to get dominated by him.

turtle28 wrote:
Well that doesn't mean he won't be in the H of F some day. All I know is he's a damn good player for us and although I didn't agree with his selection or Doctson's selection, I do believe both are going to be perenial pro bowl players for us rather early in their careers and isn't that what you want out of your 1st round picks?

turtle28 wrote:
When Scherff starts playing like Steve Hutchinson, I think you'll change your tune.

turtle28 wrote:
I disagree, an All-Pro at any position is worth a top 5 pick.

turtle28 wrote:
]Well it's a good thing Scherff is going to be an all pro then, isn't it?

turtle28 wrote:
Look, I don't know if you know this or not but we drafted Scheff and we signed Norman and they're two of the best players on the Redskins. Better learn to deal with that because it isn't changing for at least the next 3 seasons.




We can't even be certain that McCloughan was the one making the draft picks Laughing
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big44dog


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bottom line is Danny and Bruce knew if they ever got into a beef with McGloughan they always had the "demons" to fall back on and the media to use. The bickering amoungst us over it is getting tiresome
NOW, we all hope they hire someone with the stones to stand up to them and have the actual ability to pick players. We all know Doug Williams would be the PR move and nothing else. To be frank none of the candidates on the list in the article posted earlier moved the needle for me. I wish, and I no this will never happen because Danny would never hire such a strong personality and he'd never work for Danny anyway, that Bill Parcells would get involved in some capacity, any capacity for a couple seasons. Just to kick some butt all over the front office and put Danny in his place. Kind of like when Rozelle forced George Young on the Giants back in the late 70's. It's time for someone competent to take over that building. We can only hope Danny sees that
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can people stop with the wishful thinking and start admitting the truth about this franchise. While we don't know actually what's going on we have facts and statements to give us some clues. The owner and GM just fired someone because of jealousy. Nothing has come out stating SM was drinking! Cooely apologized late, while the Owner and President do nothing in defense of the GM. The supposed Franchise QB is asking for a trade!!! Unless people start admitting change is needed at the top Mediocrity is all this Franchise will be. Get Danny to sell this team!!
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I never wanted him fired and you know it, I've never once said that on this board. All I've said is that his two first round draft picks didn't work out tremendously well considering one became a guard and several defensive players we passed on that I wanted to draft amongst others - including yourself - have been pro bowl players had past two years.


Are you for real right now? You've been on Brandon Scherff's jock strap since we got him.

turtle28 wrote:
Brandon Scherff has the talent to make the pro bowl as a guard this year or next year and be a perennial pro bowl guard for the next five to ten years.

turtle28 wrote:
If we hadn't drafted Scherff, our OL would be the worst in the league. As it stands right now, we have two issues with our OL, and RG isn't one of them. Scherff has faced Williams two years in a row and has yet to get dominated by him.

turtle28 wrote:
Well that doesn't mean he won't be in the H of F some day. All I know is he's a damn good player for us and although I didn't agree with his selection or Doctson's selection, I do believe both are going to be perenial pro bowl players for us rather early in their careers and isn't that what you want out of your 1st round picks?

turtle28 wrote:
When Scherff starts playing like Steve Hutchinson, I think you'll change your tune.

turtle28 wrote:
I disagree, an All-Pro at any position is worth a top 5 pick.

turtle28 wrote:
]Well it's a good thing Scherff is going to be an all pro then, isn't it?

turtle28 wrote:
Look, I don't know if you know this or not but we drafted Scheff and we signed Norman and they're two of the best players on the Redskins. Better learn to deal with that because it isn't changing for at least the next 3 seasons.




We can't even be certain that McCloughan was the one making the draft picks Laughing
Context buddy. I wanted to take Leonard Williams number 1 overall if we had the pick and thought he should have went #1. When he fell I was floored like everyone and was for sure Scot would take him and he passed. I was extremely disappointed in that decision.

That being said, I've always said we can't change that now and that Scherff is a a very good player and a pro bowl caliber guard which will help our OL for as long as he's here.

Just because I like what Scherff has become doesn't mean that I didn't want to take Leonard Williams and don't wish every day that he was one of our starting DEs.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I never wanted him fired and you know it, I've never once said that on this board. All I've said is that his two first round draft picks didn't work out tremendously well considering one became a guard and several defensive players we passed on that I wanted to draft amongst others - including yourself - have been pro bowl players had past two years.


Are you for real right now? You've been on Brandon Scherff's jock strap since we got him.

turtle28 wrote:
Brandon Scherff has the talent to make the pro bowl as a guard this year or next year and be a perennial pro bowl guard for the next five to ten years.

turtle28 wrote:
If we hadn't drafted Scherff, our OL would be the worst in the league. As it stands right now, we have two issues with our OL, and RG isn't one of them. Scherff has faced Williams two years in a row and has yet to get dominated by him.

turtle28 wrote:
Well that doesn't mean he won't be in the H of F some day. All I know is he's a damn good player for us and although I didn't agree with his selection or Doctson's selection, I do believe both are going to be perenial pro bowl players for us rather early in their careers and isn't that what you want out of your 1st round picks?

turtle28 wrote:
When Scherff starts playing like Steve Hutchinson, I think you'll change your tune.

turtle28 wrote:
I disagree, an All-Pro at any position is worth a top 5 pick.

turtle28 wrote:
]Well it's a good thing Scherff is going to be an all pro then, isn't it?

turtle28 wrote:
Look, I don't know if you know this or not but we drafted Scheff and we signed Norman and they're two of the best players on the Redskins. Better learn to deal with that because it isn't changing for at least the next 3 seasons.




We can't even be certain that McCloughan was the one making the draft picks Laughing
Im 99% sure he was, he was the one who went to the mic, had the press congress the last two years in the offseasons and talked about who we drafted and signed in free agency. That tells me that he was the one who knew those players the best and it was his final decision to acquire them.

This was the same when Shanahan was here from 2010-2013 and Vinny last decade the years he was in charge of that.

The only time Allen had press conferences like that since he was hired in 2010 was in 2014 when he had final say and control over personnel decisions.
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Slateman


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LMAO keep swilling that koolaid.

I'm the one that has, repeatedly said that Williams should have been the pick (or trading back). You're the one that has repeatedly defended the Scherff pick, talking about pro bowls and comparisons to HoF guards.

We have no idea what McCloughan is responsible for because we have no idea how long Allen and Snyder have been meddling.
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
LMAO keep swilling that koolaid.

I'm the one that has, repeatedly said that Williams should have been the pick (or trading back). You're the one that has repeatedly defended the Scherff pick, talking about pro bowls and comparisons to HoF guards.

We have no idea what McCloughan is responsible for because we have no idea how long Allen and Snyder have been meddling.


Scherff is a tremendous player who has no business being on this team. Williams should've been the pick. It's absolutely ridiculous that we passed on a stud DL for a guard.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
Slateman wrote:
LMAO keep swilling that koolaid.

I'm the one that has, repeatedly said that Williams should have been the pick (or trading back). You're the one that has repeatedly defended the Scherff pick, talking about pro bowls and comparisons to HoF guards.

We have no idea what McCloughan is responsible for because we have no idea how long Allen and Snyder have been meddling.


Scherff is a tremendous player who has no business being on this team. Williams should've been the pick. It's absolutely ridiculous that we passed on a stud DL for a guard.
Slateman agrees. He's just (rightfully so) slamming Turtle for trying to play both sides. Turtle has defended Scherff as a great pick for two years, but yet someone slams McCloughan for it being a bad pick. This is because Turtle hates Scot McCloughan, and for some reason thinks Bruce Allen is a good GM.
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