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Jamal Adams - S - LSU
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jetsfan4life51


Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 33812
Location: lawn guy land
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get to watch a lot of Giants games and I am crediting Landon Collins with changing that defense. Don't see why Adams can't do that to a team.
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MookieMonster


Joined: 17 Jun 2016
Posts: 3508
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
Did you just say Mark Barron was a better athlete and more physical than Jamal Adams? Yikes...

Mark Barron couldn't sniff a Jamal Adams fart.


Mark Barron is more physical, but he's not a better athlete.

Eh. Barron didn't participate in the combine, so it's hard to say for sure, but he had very similar numbers in the 40 yard dash, broad jump and vertical at his Pro Day.

They're very similar athletes IMO.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 69131
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
BleedTheClock wrote:
Did you just say Mark Barron was a better athlete and more physical than Jamal Adams? Yikes...

Mark Barron couldn't sniff a Jamal Adams fart.


Mark Barron is more physical, but he's not a better athlete.

Eh. Barron didn't participate in the combine, so it's hard to say for sure, but he had very similar numbers in the 40 yard dash, broad jump and vertical at his Pro Day.

They're very similar athletes IMO.


And this is the problem with getting too hung up on measurables. You're way off. Barron is similarly fast in a straight-line, similarly explosive, and stronger, but Barron is tight-hipped and lacks foot quickness. That's why he was so unsuccessful when the Bucs tried to use him as a C-2 safety.(his troublesome ball-skills in deep coverage also didn't help) He's a box guy.

Adams is a far better all around safety because he has the ball-skills, agility, body control, and hip flexibility that Barron lacks. They're not the same caliber of athlete.
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MookieMonster


Joined: 17 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ball skills isn't an athletic trait tbh. Agility and hip flexibility is true, but Barron doesn't lack body control at all.

I'll definitely agree Adams is quicker and has better hips for coverage, but they're about the same speed, Barron is stronger and he's a better tackler IMO.

Similar athletes.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
Ball skills isn't an athletic trait tbh. Agility and hip flexibility is true, but Barron doesn't lack body control at all.

I'll definitely agree Adams is quicker and has better hips for coverage, but they're about the same speed, Barron is stronger and he's a better tackler IMO.

Similar athletes.


Ball-skills aren't an athletic trait but tackling is? Hand-eye coordination and depth perception are athletic traits; they make up much of what accounts for ball-skills. Regardless, I wasn't discussing ball-skills as a pure athletic trait. I was discussing Barron's ball-skills as also limiting his ability to cover at safety.

They're not similar athletes. It's like claiming that Carlos Henderson and Zay Jones are similar athletes. Would you also make that claim?

Adams has athletic traits that Barron lacks. Barron's lack of athletic traits in those areas limited his skill-set as a safety.(and ultimately resulted in him moving to LB) Adams has no such limitations.

Stop pursuing this argument. I watch Barron week in and week out. He's not similar to Adams as an athlete. They're very different players.
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MookieMonster


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Different players, yes. Similar athletes, yes.

I agree Adams is a better athlete, but he's not on a totally different level.

Smile
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
Different players, yes. Similar athletes, yes.

I agree Adams is a better athlete, but he's not on a totally different level.

Smile


So Zay Jones and Carlos Henderson are similar athletes?

Film > Measurables

They're not similar athletes or similar players (Barron/Adams and Jones/Henderson).
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MookieMonster


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
Different players, yes. Similar athletes, yes.

I agree Adams is a better athlete, but he's not on a totally different level.

Smile


So Zay Jones and Carlos Henderson are similar athletes?

Film > Measurables

They're not similar athletes or similar players (Barron/Adams and Jones/Henderson).

Similar, yes. Zay Jones out performed him in basically every category though, while being 3 inches taller and a few pounds heavier. Kind of a different scenario.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
Different players, yes. Similar athletes, yes.

I agree Adams is a better athlete, but he's not on a totally different level.

Smile


So Zay Jones and Carlos Henderson are similar athletes?

Film > Measurables

They're not similar athletes or similar players (Barron/Adams and Jones/Henderson).

Similar, yes. Zay Jones out performed him in basically every category though, while being 3 inches taller and a few pounds heavier. Kind of a different scenario.


Yet, the film clearly shows Henderson to be the better athlete.
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Jlash


Joined: 17 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean.....Jordan Matthews tested in like the 99th percentile athletically at the combine didn't he? We all know he's not that kind of guy.

The film is important.
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The LBC


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Joined: 12 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CalhounLambeau wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
That's my problem. After Myles Garrett, who are the guys who fall into that 2 through 5 range?

It's hard for me to find 5 better prospects. This draft is deep but not top heavy.

Exactly.

And I've often found myself asking lately, these statements of "I wouldn't take him Top 5, but Top 10... well, that's okay" are puzzling. Would it be a perfect scenario to trade back and grab the guy exactly where his value hits the sweet spot? Sure. How often do perfect scenarios occur in the draft?

To me, if I've got a Top 10 grade on a guy (adjusted appropriately for positon premiums) and he plays a position I have a pressing need at, I'm not going to split hair over him being "Top-10-worthy" but not "Top-5-worthy." Stop looking the gift horse in the mouth.
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Adams fits into that wider discussion around what Ďathleticismí means and how well it can be measured in terms how that then relates to football speed, which is as much about processing and diagnosing quickly than anything else. The combine event data is only a piece of the puzzle, if you watched him in drills you see a fluid and easy mover. How players move is almost as important as how fast they are going, especially as that ease was stark in comparison to how hard it was for guys that tested better than him.

Itís also pretty clear from everything else you hear about Adams is that he brings a whole range of intangibles in terms of his leadership and on-field intelligence, so reducing him to those event results is not good enough.
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Counselor


Joined: 31 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well athleticism can be measured with the numbers but the numbers don't measure instincts which can mask athleticism or make up for lack of it I should say.

It's just a matter of how much of a lack of an athleticism can the instincts make up for? A 4.8 corner is going to get destroyed most likely no matter his instincts. But a 4.6 corner may be able to thrive off of his instincts.

We've seen the great athletes even at S if you will who lack instincts and fail.
Josh Barrett is an example

Look at two prime examples and if you disagree that is fine...

Josh Jones vs Jamal Adams which was kind of already brought up.

Josh Jones athletically tested better than Adams. However if you watch the film you can see Adams quicker to react and making plays Josh Jones is still processing. Obviously different plays and different situations but there are similiar plays in both their tapes. Adams makes up for his 4.56 40 with great instincts.. Jones who I would say is the better athlete isn't on Adams level at this.
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In reference to concern about Joshua Dobbs' Knees

48 1/2ers wrote:
Ostriches have inverted knees and they're pretty athletic...


GIF of Ostrich Running Here...

The Wheat Grass Shooting Hippies made me get rid of it...
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goldfishwars


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think safety is fairly unique in athletic evaluation, because diagnosis and mental processing is so important to that position. In the situations where youíre not asking them to man up on a tight end (or whatever), itís the most reactive position on the field. Testing is important from a thresholds perspective, but raw athletic ability can be easily muted by poor instincts.
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Counselor


Joined: 31 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldfishwars wrote:
I think safety is fairly unique in athletic evaluation, because diagnosis and mental processing is so important to that position. In the situations where youíre not asking them to man up on a tight end (or whatever), itís the most reactive position on the field. Testing is important from a thresholds perspective, but raw athletic ability can be easily muted by poor instincts.


Yes which is why so many good athletes at safety fail and many decent athletes succeed at the position.
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In reference to concern about Joshua Dobbs' Knees

48 1/2ers wrote:
Ostriches have inverted knees and they're pretty athletic...


GIF of Ostrich Running Here...

The Wheat Grass Shooting Hippies made me get rid of it...
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