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AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 13187
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: What I took from FA Day 1 Reply with quote

Some conclusions I've reached after today's events:

-Pace remains REALLY high on Kevin White. A lot of you aren't and I'm skeptical too not so much of the ability as I am that he's one of those hard luck guys who just gets hurt. The thing is, if Pace is right about White and Meredith continues to be a reliable 2nd WR or develops even further than that, then losing Alshon hurts a whole lot less, because White's skill set is a better complement to that of Meredith and Wheaton and he's cost-controlled for 3 more years. White had 19 catches last year in 3+ games before breaking his leg, so it's not as though we should just assume he can't play. Pace is counting on better health, and it's a hard sell. That's his job though.

-This is undoubtedly Pace's roster IMO, not Fox. Glennon over Hoyer (of whom Fox is reportedly very fond) speaks to a longer term view than just 2017. Not paying top dollar for market-setting players at need positions speaks to a longer view as well. For as much as Pace got beat up today, the lack of a huge haul today is in line with his wanting to build through the draft, which believe it or not means actually allowing the guys you drafted in previous years the opportunity to get on the field. Hall and Bullard look to be prime examples of this heading into 2017. Further, Pace promised playmakers, and while he didn't add a $60M corner he added a safety with 6 INTs last year who isn't a long term solution but is a good bridge option to the long term solution guy they're likely to draft next month.

-Pick 3 is for sale, or at least it should be. If we aren't going to meet market rate for top talent in FA then we are targeting to get top talent at the top of the draft, and with the holes we have we should do what we can to get more swings. We can't ignore that the positions we most targeted and didn't hit on (CB and WR, and to a lesser extent S) are the deepest groups in the draft along with TE. If we weren't going to "overpay" at positions at least it makes sense not to do so in positions where you can get comparable or maybe even better talent at the top of the draft.
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Blaize4488


Joined: 24 Dec 2015
Posts: 455
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It signals 3 things to me:

1. The Bears pretty much have to try and acquire another 2nd this year in the draft. They have to leave the 1st three rounds with two DBs.
2. Fox is toast and at this point Pace might be too.
3. The bears are gonna be one of the worst three teams next year on paper. They will most likely be in a position to get at least one of Darnold,Browning, or Rosen.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Ryan Pace failed yesterday.

2. Ryan Pace cannot land top of the market talent. You can talk about financial discipline, but if you offer 13 million and they take 13.5 million then you are not losing because of your responsibility.

3. John Fox and his 9-23 record are a bigger deal than we want to admit.

4. The Bears are arguably the 2nd least talented team in the NFL behind SF.

5. Ryan Pace talked extensively about needing playmakers and now the Bears have the worst secondary and worst WR core in the NFL, why is these a GarPax level disconnect between what the Bears are saying and doing.

6. Hard to see John Fox not being fired after 2017. The Bears got worse in a must win season. I am sure that Fox was expecting a big spend to give him a team that can win more games.
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Pdoggbears


Joined: 21 Jan 2017
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. No matter how u spin it Pace choked
2. FA is a tool used by teams to help supplement their roster, so when we missil tired of hearing "build through the draft excuse"
3. When Pace is fired he can look back to this FA period
4. I guess the brain trust at Halas hall thinks pairing a unproven QB without proven Wr's is a recipient for success
5. We aren't the Browns so no matter how deep this draft is at Cb/s ive come to realize I will be looking at the same cast of misfits patrolling the secondary agasin this season
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No offense AZ but how can you take away with what happened yesterday as intentional? It's clearly wasnt. Fox and Pace were pounding their chests about the amount of money they had to spend and how aggressive they were going to be. Pace talked about wanting to fill multiple positions in free agency so they really could go BPA. They were blind sided yesterday. Also the other way you could tell is they were going in with 7 draft picks.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot see the Bears spending the 3rd pick on a QB.

After doing nothing in free agency how can you possibly red shirt the 3rd overall pick?
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 31 other teams in the NFL, a lot of whom had just as much cap space as the Bears did heading into an already limited free agency year.

You can blame Pace all you want saying that he choked and this and that, but let's not all act that Chicago is free agent destination #1 or even top 10.

Plus free agency is the most overrated thing ever. More often than not, these big money FA signings end up being busts.

I like Pace's methodological and cautious approach.

I don't think there's anything he could have done about the Jeffery situation other than offering him the moon ala an Antonio Brown contract which wouldn't have been worth it. Clearly he didn't want to be in Chicago no longer if he was willing to take a 1-year deal with Philly.
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AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
No offense AZ but how can you take away with what happened yesterday as intentional? It's clearly wasnt. Fox and Pace were pounding their chests about the amount of money they had to spend and how aggressive they were going to be. Pace talked about wanting to fill multiple positions in free agency so they really could go BPA. They were blind sided yesterday. Also the other way you could tell is they were going in with 7 draft picks.

I never said yesterday's misses were intentional. Pace tried to sign every top guy of note. No, he didn't land them. Would I rather have Bouye or Gilmore than Amukamara? Yeah, and so would Pace. It sucks to not come out of yesterday with a true headliner but at the same time Pace isn't wrong in that most of the FA headliners disappoint. Look at the CB huge FA deals the past few years. How many of those guys have significantly underperformed their contracts? Brandon Carr. Brandon Flowers. Byron Maxwell. Nnamdi Asomugha. Those guys are just as likely to bust out as anyone else. I don't think the issue is that the team isn't arguably getting better at spots in FA - they've filled holes at TE, CB and S with guys who are clear upgrades. They just aren't doing it in a manner that is what the masses want.

I really do think (and hope) they try to move down from 3 to lower in the top 10 and add another top 50 pick and maybe more.
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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Location: Austin Texas
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
No offense AZ but how can you take away with what happened yesterday as intentional? It's clearly wasnt. Fox and Pace were pounding their chests about the amount of money they had to spend and how aggressive they were going to be. Pace talked about wanting to fill multiple positions in free agency so they really could go BPA. They were blind sided yesterday. Also the other way you could tell is they were going in with 7 draft picks.

I never said yesterday's misses were intentional. Pace tried to sign every top guy of note. No, he didn't land them. Would I rather have Bouye or Gilmore than Amukamara? Yeah, and so would Pace. It sucks to not come out of yesterday with a true headliner but at the same time Pace isn't wrong in that most of the FA headliners disappoint. Look at the CB huge FA deals the past few years. How many of those guys have significantly underperformed their contracts? Brandon Carr. Brandon Flowers. Byron Maxwell. Nnamdi Asomugha. Those guys are just as likely to bust out as anyone else. I don't think the issue is that the team isn't arguably getting better at spots in FA - they've filled holes at TE, CB and S with guys who are clear upgrades. They just aren't doing it in a manner that is what the masses want.

I really do think (and hope) they try to move down from 3 to lower in the top 10 and add another top 50 pick and maybe more.


I'm going off what they said. They were whining about the lack of playmakers for the past 2 months. They cant cry foul when they havent replaced any of these guys. They are making decent moves. But these would be better moves if alot of these guys werent starting. That's the problem. The CB position on this roster is such a mess that anyone we bring in at free agency is an instant starter despite actual performance. Pace hasnt done a good enough job replacing the talent that's either left or that he's personally gotten rid of.

If he doesnt hit on this draft and a good portion dont contribute immediately I'm not sure what our record is going to be at that point.
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AZBearsFan


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
No offense AZ but how can you take away with what happened yesterday as intentional? It's clearly wasnt. Fox and Pace were pounding their chests about the amount of money they had to spend and how aggressive they were going to be. Pace talked about wanting to fill multiple positions in free agency so they really could go BPA. They were blind sided yesterday. Also the other way you could tell is they were going in with 7 draft picks.

I never said yesterday's misses were intentional. Pace tried to sign every top guy of note. No, he didn't land them. Would I rather have Bouye or Gilmore than Amukamara? Yeah, and so would Pace. It sucks to not come out of yesterday with a true headliner but at the same time Pace isn't wrong in that most of the FA headliners disappoint. Look at the CB huge FA deals the past few years. How many of those guys have significantly underperformed their contracts? Brandon Carr. Brandon Flowers. Byron Maxwell. Nnamdi Asomugha. Those guys are just as likely to bust out as anyone else. I don't think the issue is that the team isn't arguably getting better at spots in FA - they've filled holes at TE, CB and S with guys who are clear upgrades. They just aren't doing it in a manner that is what the masses want.

I really do think (and hope) they try to move down from 3 to lower in the top 10 and add another top 50 pick and maybe more.


I'm going off what they said. They were whining about the lack of playmakers for the past 2 months. They cant cry foul when they havent replaced any of these guys. They are making decent moves. But these would be better moves if alot of these guys werent starting. That's the problem. The CB position on this roster is such a mess that anyone we bring in at free agency is an instant starter despite actual performance. Pace hasnt done a good enough job replacing the talent he's kicked out no matter what problems they caused in the locker room.

I don't think that's true on defense at all. Who has left on defense since he got here that was any good? Peanut doesn't count either cuz he was 1 year from retirement anyway. Agree on offense with exception of Forte, though he's probably taking the QB at or near the top of this year's draft and his top prospect WR has broken his leg twice. Our OL is significantly better than it was on his arrival and he deserves credit for that too.

Fans want stars from FA and stars from the draft. Pace has made it pretty damn clear that unless he gets the marquee names at a reasonable price in FA (which is unlikely) that he's going to stabilize his roster in FA and then look for his potential elite talent at the top of the draft. It's not a terrible approach but it's not an exciting one for the masses in the beginning of March.
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
No offense AZ but how can you take away with what happened yesterday as intentional? It's clearly wasnt. Fox and Pace were pounding their chests about the amount of money they had to spend and how aggressive they were going to be. Pace talked about wanting to fill multiple positions in free agency so they really could go BPA. They were blind sided yesterday. Also the other way you could tell is they were going in with 7 draft picks.

I never said yesterday's misses were intentional. Pace tried to sign every top guy of note. No, he didn't land them. Would I rather have Bouye or Gilmore than Amukamara? Yeah, and so would Pace. It sucks to not come out of yesterday with a true headliner but at the same time Pace isn't wrong in that most of the FA headliners disappoint. Look at the CB huge FA deals the past few years. How many of those guys have significantly underperformed their contracts? Brandon Carr. Brandon Flowers. Byron Maxwell. Nnamdi Asomugha. Those guys are just as likely to bust out as anyone else. I don't think the issue is that the team isn't arguably getting better at spots in FA - they've filled holes at TE, CB and S with guys who are clear upgrades. They just aren't doing it in a manner that is what the masses want.

I really do think (and hope) they try to move down from 3 to lower in the top 10 and add another top 50 pick and maybe more.


I'm going off what they said. They were whining about the lack of playmakers for the past 2 months. They cant cry foul when they havent replaced any of these guys. They are making decent moves. But these would be better moves if alot of these guys werent starting. That's the problem. The CB position on this roster is such a mess that anyone we bring in at free agency is an instant starter despite actual performance. Pace hasnt done a good enough job replacing the talent he's kicked out no matter what problems they caused in the locker room.

I don't think that's true on defense at all. Who has left on defense since he got here that was any good? Peanut doesn't count either cuz he was 1 year from retirement anyway. Agree on offense with exception of Forte, though he's probably taking the QB at or near the top of this year's draft and his top prospect WR has broken his leg twice. Our OL is significantly better than it was on his arrival and he deserves credit for that too.

Fans want stars from FA and stars from the draft. Pace has made it pretty damn clear that unless he gets the marquee names at a reasonable price in FA (which is unlikely) that he's going to stabilize his roster in FA and then look for his potential elite talent at the top of the draft. It's not a terrible approach but it's not an exciting one for the masses in the beginning of March.


I was talking about the offense with that remark. The defense it's mostly been retirement/not great drafting.

I think while all that is true it doesnt mean that Pace wasnt blindsided by the reception from free agents. Brad Biggs has alluded to this. The Bears got an entirely different reception from these players because the rosy picture Pace and Fox painted at the end of last season hasnt resonated.

I think if Pace survives next year if they have a bad record he needs to reevaluate his approach to free agency and his recruitment methods. They need to figure out why they didnt get the message that free agents didnt want to come here. That shouldnt happen to a professional team.
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AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
GOGRIESE wrote:
No offense AZ but how can you take away with what happened yesterday as intentional? It's clearly wasnt. Fox and Pace were pounding their chests about the amount of money they had to spend and how aggressive they were going to be. Pace talked about wanting to fill multiple positions in free agency so they really could go BPA. They were blind sided yesterday. Also the other way you could tell is they were going in with 7 draft picks.

I never said yesterday's misses were intentional. Pace tried to sign every top guy of note. No, he didn't land them. Would I rather have Bouye or Gilmore than Amukamara? Yeah, and so would Pace. It sucks to not come out of yesterday with a true headliner but at the same time Pace isn't wrong in that most of the FA headliners disappoint. Look at the CB huge FA deals the past few years. How many of those guys have significantly underperformed their contracts? Brandon Carr. Brandon Flowers. Byron Maxwell. Nnamdi Asomugha. Those guys are just as likely to bust out as anyone else. I don't think the issue is that the team isn't arguably getting better at spots in FA - they've filled holes at TE, CB and S with guys who are clear upgrades. They just aren't doing it in a manner that is what the masses want.

I really do think (and hope) they try to move down from 3 to lower in the top 10 and add another top 50 pick and maybe more.


I'm going off what they said. They were whining about the lack of playmakers for the past 2 months. They cant cry foul when they havent replaced any of these guys. They are making decent moves. But these would be better moves if alot of these guys werent starting. That's the problem. The CB position on this roster is such a mess that anyone we bring in at free agency is an instant starter despite actual performance. Pace hasnt done a good enough job replacing the talent he's kicked out no matter what problems they caused in the locker room.

I don't think that's true on defense at all. Who has left on defense since he got here that was any good? Peanut doesn't count either cuz he was 1 year from retirement anyway. Agree on offense with exception of Forte, though he's probably taking the QB at or near the top of this year's draft and his top prospect WR has broken his leg twice. Our OL is significantly better than it was on his arrival and he deserves credit for that too.

Fans want stars from FA and stars from the draft. Pace has made it pretty damn clear that unless he gets the marquee names at a reasonable price in FA (which is unlikely) that he's going to stabilize his roster in FA and then look for his potential elite talent at the top of the draft. It's not a terrible approach but it's not an exciting one for the masses in the beginning of March.


I was talking about the offense with that remark. The defense it's mostly been retirement/not great drafting.

I think while all that is true it doesnt mean that Pace wasnt blindsided by the reception from free agents. Brad Biggs has alluded to this. The Bears got an entirely different reception from these players because the rosy picture Pace and Fox painted at the end of last season hasnt resonated.

I think if Pace survives next year if they have a bad record he needs to reevaluate his approach to free agency and his recruitment methods. They need to figure out why they didnt get the message that free agents didnt want to come here. That shouldnt happen to a professional team.

I think that the "pay what they're worth" approach for a 3-13 team without an established QB is the wrong approach if he's hoping to get the marquee guys. If he actually thought that would get him Bouye of Gilmore than that's a miscalculation, and if he didn't but was gonna try it anyway then he should have chosen his words last week much more carefully. If you're taking the "give me half a dozen B players over 2 A players and a bunch of scraps" that's fine especially with this many holes but you can't give the impression you're going the other way if you want to win the public perception game. In reality he postured to both approaches last week, but most see only the shinier of the two objects dangled in front of them.
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GOGRIESE


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wasnt only him though. It was Fox bragging about how much money they had to spend. It was also Ted Phillips in the letter to fans after they raised ticket prices. Seems like the organization was in lock step with the optimism and it all came crashing down really quick. Honestly it's almost a little hard to believe that they heard absolutely nothing from these reps in the previous few months that they didnt share the same view.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOGRIESE wrote:
It wasnt only him though. It was Fox bragging about how much money they had to spend. It was also Ted Phillips in the letter to fans after they raised ticket prices. Seems like the organization was in lock step with the optimism and it all came crashing down really quick. Honestly it's almost a little hard to believe that they heard absolutely nothing from these reps in the previous few months that they didnt share the same view.


They weren't bragging they just said they would be active in free agency and by all accounts they have been. Just because they didn't sign the marquee top FAs doesn't mean they haven't been active and spending money.

People are just disappointed because the Bears didn't sign any of the flashy top name FA's that they wanted.
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Pdoggbears


Joined: 21 Jan 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to be a smart [inappropriate/removed] but the goal this off season was supposed to be landing top tier talent. U basically have no choice but to be active when u have major issues on the roster i.e. The secondary. And the front office told the fans that they would go big game hunting and ended up missing on every shot they took. It's very understandable that fans are let down.
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