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Bears agree to terms with TE Dion Sims
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TankWilliams


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 16934
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Jesus - we don't sign guys and Pace is garbage. We sign a guy to a pretty market level deal at a position where we needed a guy to fill this exact role, and Pace is garbage. Sims is a good blocker with good hands even if he's not a field stretching guy. He's not precluding us from taking a guy to replace Miller a year from now.


The only person who's said that is bearsfan323 who is the king of being melodramatic and reactionary.

But I don't think this is market value. 6 million per for a guy who averages 2 TD's per year as a TE? Seems very high. Especially considering the quality of TE's in this draft. I don't think Sims is a bad player or a bad signing, just think the money was wrong, and as MM90 said, its more a move that shows Pace is scrambling to get any sort of deal in.

Whether the money makes sense really depends on his role. If he's just a blocking TE who gets 15 catches then yeah it's high. If they plan to run a bunch of 2TE sets (very possible with no Alshon) and treat him as an ascending passing game option in an expanded role then $6M is fine IMO. Bear in mind that Miller is up after next year and if gone and presumably replaced by a non-1st round TE this year then the cumulative TE cap hit next year for 2 starters will be about $7M which is well below market.


But still, then they are paying him based on his potential, prospective value. Not based on what he's actually done in the NFL. Its what he might possibly do in an offense that is still theoretical.
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AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 13080
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TankWilliams wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Jesus - we don't sign guys and Pace is garbage. We sign a guy to a pretty market level deal at a position where we needed a guy to fill this exact role, and Pace is garbage. Sims is a good blocker with good hands even if he's not a field stretching guy. He's not precluding us from taking a guy to replace Miller a year from now.


The only person who's said that is bearsfan323 who is the king of being melodramatic and reactionary.

But I don't think this is market value. 6 million per for a guy who averages 2 TD's per year as a TE? Seems very high. Especially considering the quality of TE's in this draft. I don't think Sims is a bad player or a bad signing, just think the money was wrong, and as MM90 said, its more a move that shows Pace is scrambling to get any sort of deal in.

Whether the money makes sense really depends on his role. If he's just a blocking TE who gets 15 catches then yeah it's high. If they plan to run a bunch of 2TE sets (very possible with no Alshon) and treat him as an ascending passing game option in an expanded role then $6M is fine IMO. Bear in mind that Miller is up after next year and if gone and presumably replaced by a non-1st round TE this year then the cumulative TE cap hit next year for 2 starters will be about $7M which is well below market.


But still, then they are paying him based on his potential, prospective value. Not based on what he's actually done in the NFL. Its what he might possibly do in an offense that is still theoretical.

Is that not what everyone says you're supposed to do - pay for future production and not past performance?
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TankWilliams


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 16934
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Jesus - we don't sign guys and Pace is garbage. We sign a guy to a pretty market level deal at a position where we needed a guy to fill this exact role, and Pace is garbage. Sims is a good blocker with good hands even if he's not a field stretching guy. He's not precluding us from taking a guy to replace Miller a year from now.


The only person who's said that is bearsfan323 who is the king of being melodramatic and reactionary.

But I don't think this is market value. 6 million per for a guy who averages 2 TD's per year as a TE? Seems very high. Especially considering the quality of TE's in this draft. I don't think Sims is a bad player or a bad signing, just think the money was wrong, and as MM90 said, its more a move that shows Pace is scrambling to get any sort of deal in.

Whether the money makes sense really depends on his role. If he's just a blocking TE who gets 15 catches then yeah it's high. If they plan to run a bunch of 2TE sets (very possible with no Alshon) and treat him as an ascending passing game option in an expanded role then $6M is fine IMO. Bear in mind that Miller is up after next year and if gone and presumably replaced by a non-1st round TE this year then the cumulative TE cap hit next year for 2 starters will be about $7M which is well below market.


But still, then they are paying him based on his potential, prospective value. Not based on what he's actually done in the NFL. Its what he might possibly do in an offense that is still theoretical.

Is that not what everyone says you're supposed to do - pay for future production and not past performance?


I have not seen anyone say that specifically, but the key is finding the middle ground. You don't see the Lions paying Cornelius Washington big bucks because he is extremely physically gifted but hasn't turned a corner in his NFL game. You wont see Cutler get a huge contract because of his arm strength.
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bearsfan323


Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 2577
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TankWilliams wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Jesus - we don't sign guys and Pace is garbage. We sign a guy to a pretty market level deal at a position where we needed a guy to fill this exact role, and Pace is garbage. Sims is a good blocker with good hands even if he's not a field stretching guy. He's not precluding us from taking a guy to replace Miller a year from now.


The only person who's said that is bearsfan323 who is the king of being melodramatic and reactionary.

But I don't think this is market value. 6 million per for a guy who averages 2 TD's per year as a TE? Seems very high. Especially considering the quality of TE's in this draft. I don't think Sims is a bad player or a bad signing, just think the money was wrong, and as MM90 said, its more a move that shows Pace is scrambling to get any sort of deal in.

He doesn't have 700 yards & double digit TD's yet in 4 seasons. This draft is loaded with TE talent and instead they overpaid for a fat, mediocre one in FA. Can't wait for week 6 when Nick Perry blows him up, you all post about it, but you still applaud this crappy signing because you know what you're not an internet fanboy and I am.

Meanwhile as you all found the slim glimmer of hope with this signing, the Bears missed out on the 5th best corner in the last 2 years. Pace's 2015 draft stunk, his 2016 draft has been good, and both FA periods have been underwhelming to bad which has all culminated in, what, 8 wins? Why should I be happy?
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16234
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pace was horrendous today, but the Sims money is not why.

I actually don't mind the money, especially because he will play a bunch and probably shatter all his statistical markers. My guess is he will start at TE with Miller flexing out, we have no WRs worth a damn, and he will be more than a blocker.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't matter that the draft is loaded with TE talent, because the Bears need to draft S, CB, QB and WR.
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bearsfan323


Joined: 02 Apr 2014
Posts: 2577
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
It doesn't matter that the draft is loaded with TE talent, because the Bears need to draft S, CB, QB and WR.

Correct but they could have used a 7th round pick on a blocking TE and saved $6M although he did have to do something to save his [inappropriate/removed] a bit.
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AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 13080
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TankWilliams wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
TankWilliams wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Jesus - we don't sign guys and Pace is garbage. We sign a guy to a pretty market level deal at a position where we needed a guy to fill this exact role, and Pace is garbage. Sims is a good blocker with good hands even if he's not a field stretching guy. He's not precluding us from taking a guy to replace Miller a year from now.


The only person who's said that is bearsfan323 who is the king of being melodramatic and reactionary.

But I don't think this is market value. 6 million per for a guy who averages 2 TD's per year as a TE? Seems very high. Especially considering the quality of TE's in this draft. I don't think Sims is a bad player or a bad signing, just think the money was wrong, and as MM90 said, its more a move that shows Pace is scrambling to get any sort of deal in.

Whether the money makes sense really depends on his role. If he's just a blocking TE who gets 15 catches then yeah it's high. If they plan to run a bunch of 2TE sets (very possible with no Alshon) and treat him as an ascending passing game option in an expanded role then $6M is fine IMO. Bear in mind that Miller is up after next year and if gone and presumably replaced by a non-1st round TE this year then the cumulative TE cap hit next year for 2 starters will be about $7M which is well below market.


But still, then they are paying him based on his potential, prospective value. Not based on what he's actually done in the NFL. Its what he might possibly do in an offense that is still theoretical.

Is that not what everyone says you're supposed to do - pay for future production and not past performance?


I have not seen anyone say that specifically, but the key is finding the middle ground. You don't see the Lions paying Cornelius Washington big bucks because he is extremely physically gifted but hasn't turned a corner in his NFL game. You wont see Cutler get a huge contract because of his arm strength.

You've never heard someone say that you pay a guy for what he's going to do, not what he's done? It gets said like 50x every offseason in every sport. It's the whole concept behind adding ascending players in FA. They're ascending. Taking on bigger roles going forward. Washington got a low level contract because he's signing to be a rotational player or a backup. At $6M per, it's likely Sims is seen as going from that type of role to a bigger one in Chicago.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bearsfan323 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
It doesn't matter that the draft is loaded with TE talent, because the Bears need to draft S, CB, QB and WR.

Correct but they could have used a 7th round pick on a blocking TE and saved $6M although he did have to do something to save his [inappropriate/removed] a bit.


He is more talented than that.

Plus that 7th round pick is going to have to start at WR.
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3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
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DaMike


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't a bad signing. We need him. I haven't watched a lot of him but my friends who's a Miami fan wanted to keep him. He's young with an all around game upside.
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