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Its official -Redskins Fired Scot
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
Slateman wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...


Mark Bullock‏ @MarkBullockNFL
Interestingly, @AlbertBreer just said on his live stream DJ Swearinger was Scot McCloughan's number 1 free agent priority for the #Redskins


https://mobile.twitter.com/JReidESPN/status/840667581166059520

@JReidESPNTwo team sources: Before Scot walked away, he set FA board, did a ton of draft work. So, you know, dude was doing something

Had a whole board ready


That, ladies and gentlemen, is team player. Even when he was getting the shaft, he still did his job.

I wish Scot well in any future ventures and that he finds himself in a less toxic environment than here.


Amen. Standing up clapping for Scot right now
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ripsean21


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
Woz wrote:
Slateman wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...


Mark Bullock‏ @MarkBullockNFL
Interestingly, @AlbertBreer just said on his live stream DJ Swearinger was Scot McCloughan's number 1 free agent priority for the #Redskins


https://mobile.twitter.com/JReidESPN/status/840667581166059520

@JReidESPNTwo team sources: Before Scot walked away, he set FA board, did a ton of draft work. So, you know, dude was doing something

Had a whole board ready


That, ladies and gentlemen, is team player. Even when he was getting the shaft, he still did his job.

I wish Scot well in any future ventures and that he finds himself in a less toxic environment than here.


Amen. Standing up clapping for Scot right now


Dude the guy cares! The guy was still wearing Redskins gear when he knew the writing was on the wall. He's a class act it's a shame this has happened. I not only wish Scot the best I kinda hope by some twisted world this FO realizes how wrong they were and if we ever get close someone recognizes him because this guy has caused a change of mentality in this locker room.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So here's what I think happened:

It sounds like Scot wanted to sign Kirk for 19.5m AAV last year. This was the 3 year deal from Kirk's camp. Allen and Dan (RG3 fans who don't want to admit being very wrong), overruled Scot. Making a huge mistake.

Now Kirk has all the power. He is asking for a lot more. He is gone anyway.

Now, even though Scot wanted to keep him, he knows the writing is on the wall. So Scot works a great trade with San Fran... who will get him next year anyway.

Dan and Scot overrule THAT. Making another huge mistake. Their reasoning? Not to a Shanahan. Scot, you can trade him... but not to a Shanahan.

So Scot gets ticked, freaks out about the constant meddling and not letting him do his job and they send him home. Eventually firing him.

Then they sully him with accusations of drinking.

Now let's review more things we know:

Dan has had issues with Greg Williams, Marvin Lewis, Norv Turner, Marty Shottenheimer, Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, and now Scot.

He has bought radio stations because they criticize him. In the office he has turned over the staff completely 3 times now because they can't work with him.

He truly has a weak mental makeup IMHO. He tends to hire people like Allen and Cerrato who only encourage it.

Postscript:


"Find out what whiskey he drinks and send all of my generals a case, if it will get the same results". - Lincoln's reply to comments about General Grant's drinking problems
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big44dog


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not gonna blame Cooley for any of this. I listened on the app he gave several reasons why Scot wouldn't be there. Considering SM's history it was certainly a possibility. He had no reason to offer an apology and he didn't start any firestorm it was brewing within for months. None of us will ever know the real truth. SM is saying nothing because he's being portrayed as a martyr and Bruce/Snyder are taking all kinds of fire and why change that? Ill look back and see SMs 2 draft classes were slightly above average and 2 FA classes were slightly below average. That can be replaced. Scots people and Bruce's people have probably been beefing since day 1. I just hope a GM is hired sooner rather than later
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
So here's what I think happened:

It sounds like Scot wanted to sign Kirk for 19.5m AAV last year. This was the 3 year deal from Kirk's camp. Allen and Dan (RG3 fans who don't want to admit being very wrong), overruled Scot. Making a huge mistake.

Now Kirk has all the power. He is asking for a lot more. He is gone anyway.

Now, even though Scot wanted to keep him, he knows the writing is on the wall. So Scot works a great trade with San Fran... who will get him next year anyway.

Dan and Scot overrule THAT. Making another huge mistake. Their reasoning? Not to a Shanahan. Scot, you can trade him... but not to a Shanahan.

So Scot gets ticked, freaks out about the constant meddling and not letting him do his job and they send him home. Eventually firing him.

Then they sully him with accusations of drinking.

Now let's review more things we know:

Dan has had issues with Greg Williams, Marvin Lewis, Norv Turner, Marty Shottenheimer, Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, and now Scot.

He has bought radio stations because they criticize him. In the office he has turned over the staff completely 3 times now because they can't work with him.

He truly has a weak mental makeup IMHO. He tends to hire people like Allen and Cerrato who only encourage it.

Postscript:


"Find out what whiskey he drinks and send all of my generals a case, if it will get the same results". - Lincoln's reply to comments about General Grant's drinking problems
Probably right except I do believe Scot had drinking issues still. Hmm, Dan seems similar to someone else, can't say it bc it's against forum rules to talk about it.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
So here's what I think happened:

It sounds like Scot wanted to sign Kirk for 19.5m AAV last year. This was the 3 year deal from Kirk's camp. Allen and Dan (RG3 fans who don't want to admit being very wrong), overruled Scot. Making a huge mistake.

Now Kirk has all the power. He is asking for a lot more. He is gone anyway.

Now, even though Scot wanted to keep him, he knows the writing is on the wall. So Scot works a great trade with San Fran... who will get him next year anyway.

Dan and Scot overrule THAT. Making another huge mistake. Their reasoning? Not to a Shanahan. Scot, you can trade him... but not to a Shanahan.

So Scot gets ticked, freaks out about the constant meddling and not letting him do his job and they send him home. Eventually firing him.

Then they sully him with accusations of drinking.

Now let's review more things we know:

Dan has had issues with Greg Williams, Marvin Lewis, Norv Turner, Marty Shottenheimer, Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, and now Scot.

He has bought radio stations because they criticize him. In the office he has turned over the staff completely 3 times now because they can't work with him.

He truly has a weak mental makeup IMHO. He tends to hire people like Allen and Cerrato who only encourage it.

Postscript:


"Find out what whiskey he drinks and send all of my generals a case, if it will get the same results". - Lincoln's reply to comments about General Grant's drinking problems
Probably right except I do believe Scot had drinking issues still. Hmm, Dan seems similar to someone else, can't say it bc it's against forum rules to talk about it.


Its possible. Even still, see my postscript.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big44dog wrote:
I'm not gonna blame Cooley for any of this.
Cooley did apologize, he said he regretted ever mentioning it on air.
Quote:
I listened on the app he gave several reasons why Scot wouldn't be there. Considering SM's history it was certainly a possibility.
I listened to it in person, the way Cooley said it it wasn't even a big deal. As you said he listed like 5 possibilities as to why it didn't work out, he didn't really say it was definitely the reason that I remember. The Redskins cult fandom blue it out of proportion because to them Scot could do no wrong and they've grown tired of Cooley and his honest evaluators of the players play on the field in his film review sessions.

Quote:
He had no reason to offer an apology and he didn't start any firestorm it was brewing within for months. None of us will ever know the real truth.
Agreed, but he did anyways.

Quote:
SM is saying nothing because he's being portrayed as a martyr and Bruce/Snyder are taking all kinds of fire and why change that? Ill look back and see SMs 2 draft classes were slightly above average and 2 FA classes were slightly below average. That can be replaced. Scots people and Bruce's people have probably been beefing since day 1. I just hope a GM is hired sooner rather than later
Agreed
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Woz


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Had Cooley apologized a day or two later, once it became national news via PFT, then sure, okay that was something he didn't think through.

The apology came a month later.

Even if it were true, even if it weren't meant with any malice and was just something off the top of his head (admittedly, I went there too) ... waiting a month is inexcusable. Cooley lost a little respect in my eyes because of it.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MMQB article on the events that led to McCloughan being fired:

Quote:
Scot McCloughan won one battle in Washington in August 2015. If he’d won two, maybe—maybe—the Redskins wouldn’t be in the mess they’re wading through now.

The then-GM met for five hours one night that summer to try and convince owner Dan Snyder and president Bruce Allen that the time had come, and the team needed to move from Robert Griffin III to Kirk Cousins. Soon thereafter, with Cousins installed as starter, and believing he was in for a big year, McCloughan made a second appeal to the team’s top brass.

Let’s extend Cousins now, he told them, so we’re not stuck holding the bag later.

In the end, the quarterback’s lingering contract situation was one noticeable trigger in the explosion of the relationship between McCloughan and Allen, the team’s top two decision-makers. Most people in Ashburn agree the deterioration of the Allen/McCloughan partnership is why we’re here. The root of that discord remains up for debate, however, and it might never be definitively settled.

...

“What’s pissing me off is how everything is Scot’s fault,” said one veteran player. “This is not Scot’s fault. Everyone here appreciates Scot. … Let’s be honest, the issues are there, but he’s never gotten in front of the team drunk or anything like that. Whoever is saying that needs to stop.”

“If that was there, he did a good job of hiding it,” said another player. “There was never a discussion about that, at least that I saw.”

What those on the coaching and scouting staffs did see, eventually, was a blurring of lines that created a level of tension in the upper reaches of the club. There were, in particular, three flash points obvious to those not named Allen and McCloughan:

• The Cousins negotiation. At the close of training camp in 2015, McCloughan wanted to try and extend Cousins, but there was concern over how that’d go over with Griffin, because some felt the team would still need him at some point. (Whether a fair figure could have been reached with Cousins is open for debate, considering the quarterback’s inconsistent résumé and lack of success at that point.) Finally, that December, McCloughan was given the green light. By then, Cousins’ camp wanted to wait till after the year.

After Cousins’ hot finish, the Skins knew they’d have to franchise Cousins at a $20 million number, which framed negotiations in a place where the team wasn’t willing to go. Talks on a long-term deal got off to a rough start, and then control shifted from McCloughan to team negotiator Eric Schaffer. By the time 2016 was winding down, the GM had been removed completely from decision-making on Cousins.

To some inside the club, the use of the exclusive tag on Cousins was a surprise, since there’d been earlier discussion on potentially moving Cousins and going with Colt McCoy or signing someone like Mike Glennon. Point of all this? It’s hard to say that this was necessarily where the problem initially began, but there’s no question—based on the import of quarterback decisions—it strained the relationship.

• Su’a Cravens injury. The rookie safety/linebacker injured his biceps on Dec. 11 against the Eagles. Initially, the team believed it was a tear. It wound up being a bruise, the kind players often play through. Cravens missed the following Monday’s game against Carolina, and then the next game in Chicago on Christmas Eve.

By then, his teammates, some of whom had seen him playing ping-pong at the facility, were openly wondering why he wasn’t pushing through the injury. After he missed two games, the team wanted him to get the arm drained in an effort to play in Week 17. Cravens responded by not showing up to the facility for treatment that day, at which point McCloughan decided to call Cravens.

That didn’t go over well with Allen. Some veterans felt like McCloughan was simply trying to uphold the culture that he and Gruden had worked to build, which is seen as a “Seattle” thing (McCloughan worked for the Seahawks from 2011-13) to do—If you see something, say something. But certainly, there’d be some debate in the football world over whether it’s a GM’s place to handle those things. (Cravens sat out the finale.)

• Bashaud Breeland’s outburst. At another point in December, the third-year corner—who’d been seen internally as moody following the Josh Norman signing—blew an assignment, and was called by a coach on it. He argued. The coach argued back. Then, Breeland blew another assignment, took his helmet off and sat on a cooler on the sideline. From the perspective of the coaching staff, these sorts of squabbles with players were not uncommon.

But after practice, in the locker room, McCloughan saw Breeland coming out of the shower and bluntly told the third-year corner to come to his office after he was dressed. Word of the confrontation got around, and it led to another squabble in the front office over boundaries.

As was the case with Cravens, some players believed Breeland needed to be shaken and didn’t mind McCloughan doing it. Clearly, others within the organization didn’t think it was his place.

So the season ended with the Redskins losing a win-or-go-home game against the Giants on New Year’s Day. Obviously, in the time since, things got worse. It’s been theorized that Allen grew jealous of the credit McCloughan got for the team turning a few corners over the past two years. Conversely, there have been rumblings of dissatisfaction over McCloughan’s 2016 draft and free-agent haul.

And there was more sinister talk, but few actual accounts, of McCloughan’s drinking being a visible issue. “It was whispered about all the time,” says one staffer, “but I never saw it, and I don’t know anyone who did.”

Maybe we eventually get more answers on what really happened. What I do know is that the conclusion predicted by some in Ashburn—Eventually, those people forecast, there would be problems over power and McCloughan’s past issues would be raised as he departed—has come true.


More at link: http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/03/16/washington-redskins-nfl-dysfunction-scot-mccloughan-dan-snyder-bruce-allen
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce Allen has to go. If this team is ever going to be in the mold of a winner like Pittsburgh or New England than he has to be fired. It is absolutely unbelievable to me that Snyder has allowed this stuff to happen again. I'm just shocked at how much of an idiot he is.

And Cooley, that clown. He should've been fired the moment he lied about all the RG3 stuff. He's now lied several times and does it on an official team station. He needs to be made an example of.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cooley is not going to be fired, his show gets raitings and might be the highest raited sports talk show in dc. The things he does with reviewing film is unmatched on talk radio. It sucks the players get their panties in a bunch when they suck from week to week but they need to grow a pair.

I don't think Bruce Allen is going anywhere unless we see a total collapse of this team for several years like we did the end of last decade with Cerrato.

It's a pipe dream that will probably never be realized.

I expect the worst but continue to hope for the best with this franchise.
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
MMQB article on the events that led to McCloughan being fired:

Quote:
Scot McCloughan won one battle in Washington in August 2015. If he’d won two, maybe—maybe—the Redskins wouldn’t be in the mess they’re wading through now.

The then-GM met for five hours one night that summer to try and convince owner Dan Snyder and president Bruce Allen that the time had come, and the team needed to move from Robert Griffin III to Kirk Cousins. Soon thereafter, with Cousins installed as starter, and believing he was in for a big year, McCloughan made a second appeal to the team’s top brass.

Let’s extend Cousins now, he told them, so we’re not stuck holding the bag later.

In the end, the quarterback’s lingering contract situation was one noticeable trigger in the explosion of the relationship between McCloughan and Allen, the team’s top two decision-makers. Most people in Ashburn agree the deterioration of the Allen/McCloughan partnership is why we’re here. The root of that discord remains up for debate, however, and it might never be definitively settled.

...

“What’s pissing me off is how everything is Scot’s fault,” said one veteran player. “This is not Scot’s fault. Everyone here appreciates Scot. … Let’s be honest, the issues are there, but he’s never gotten in front of the team drunk or anything like that. Whoever is saying that needs to stop.”

“If that was there, he did a good job of hiding it,” said another player. “There was never a discussion about that, at least that I saw.”

What those on the coaching and scouting staffs did see, eventually, was a blurring of lines that created a level of tension in the upper reaches of the club. There were, in particular, three flash points obvious to those not named Allen and McCloughan:

• The Cousins negotiation. At the close of training camp in 2015, McCloughan wanted to try and extend Cousins, but there was concern over how that’d go over with Griffin, because some felt the team would still need him at some point. (Whether a fair figure could have been reached with Cousins is open for debate, considering the quarterback’s inconsistent résumé and lack of success at that point.) Finally, that December, McCloughan was given the green light. By then, Cousins’ camp wanted to wait till after the year.

After Cousins’ hot finish, the Skins knew they’d have to franchise Cousins at a $20 million number, which framed negotiations in a place where the team wasn’t willing to go. Talks on a long-term deal got off to a rough start, and then control shifted from McCloughan to team negotiator Eric Schaffer. By the time 2016 was winding down, the GM had been removed completely from decision-making on Cousins.

To some inside the club, the use of the exclusive tag on Cousins was a surprise, since there’d been earlier discussion on potentially moving Cousins and going with Colt McCoy or signing someone like Mike Glennon. Point of all this? It’s hard to say that this was necessarily where the problem initially began, but there’s no question—based on the import of quarterback decisions—it strained the relationship.

• Su’a Cravens injury. The rookie safety/linebacker injured his biceps on Dec. 11 against the Eagles. Initially, the team believed it was a tear. It wound up being a bruise, the kind players often play through. Cravens missed the following Monday’s game against Carolina, and then the next game in Chicago on Christmas Eve.

By then, his teammates, some of whom had seen him playing ping-pong at the facility, were openly wondering why he wasn’t pushing through the injury. After he missed two games, the team wanted him to get the arm drained in an effort to play in Week 17. Cravens responded by not showing up to the facility for treatment that day, at which point McCloughan decided to call Cravens.

That didn’t go over well with Allen. Some veterans felt like McCloughan was simply trying to uphold the culture that he and Gruden had worked to build, which is seen as a “Seattle” thing (McCloughan worked for the Seahawks from 2011-13) to do—If you see something, say something. But certainly, there’d be some debate in the football world over whether it’s a GM’s place to handle those things. (Cravens sat out the finale.)

• Bashaud Breeland’s outburst. At another point in December, the third-year corner—who’d been seen internally as moody following the Josh Norman signing—blew an assignment, and was called by a coach on it. He argued. The coach argued back. Then, Breeland blew another assignment, took his helmet off and sat on a cooler on the sideline. From the perspective of the coaching staff, these sorts of squabbles with players were not uncommon.

But after practice, in the locker room, McCloughan saw Breeland coming out of the shower and bluntly told the third-year corner to come to his office after he was dressed. Word of the confrontation got around, and it led to another squabble in the front office over boundaries.

As was the case with Cravens, some players believed Breeland needed to be shaken and didn’t mind McCloughan doing it. Clearly, others within the organization didn’t think it was his place.

So the season ended with the Redskins losing a win-or-go-home game against the Giants on New Year’s Day. Obviously, in the time since, things got worse. It’s been theorized that Allen grew jealous of the credit McCloughan got for the team turning a few corners over the past two years. Conversely, there have been rumblings of dissatisfaction over McCloughan’s 2016 draft and free-agent haul.

And there was more sinister talk, but few actual accounts, of McCloughan’s drinking being a visible issue. “It was whispered about all the time,” says one staffer, “but I never saw it, and I don’t know anyone who did.”

Maybe we eventually get more answers on what really happened. What I do know is that the conclusion predicted by some in Ashburn—Eventually, those people forecast, there would be problems over power and McCloughan’s past issues would be raised as he departed—has come true.


More at link: http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/03/16/washington-redskins-nfl-dysfunction-scot-mccloughan-dan-snyder-bruce-allen


Wow! The longer fans keep supporting them the longer this type of behavior shall continue. They might clean it up for a few years, but eventually repeat the samething.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lavar703 wrote:
Bruce Allen has to go. If this team is ever going to be in the mold of a winner like Pittsburgh or New England than he has to be fired. It is absolutely unbelievable to me that Snyder has allowed this stuff to happen again. I'm just shocked at how much of an idiot he is.

And Cooley, that clown. He should've been fired the moment he lied about all the RG3 stuff. He's now lied several times and does it on an official team station. He needs to be made an example of.


Agree on Allen, completely disagree on Cooley. Let's leave him out of this though since what he does has no bearing on the play on the field.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the chances - I think likely, that some deal was made to use the work/input that S M had already done on the upcoming draft and it will have some influence on the picks . Afterall, he was photographed still wearing Redskin garb after it seemed he was fired.
Maybe they agreed to pay him several more weeks -so he may still be on the payroll. Like the rest of us -still looking to dispell the doom and gloom and find the silver lining !
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
What are the chances - I think likely, that some deal was made to use the work/input that S M had already done on the upcoming draft and it will have some influence on the picks . Afterall, he was photographed still wearing Redskin garb after it seemed he was fired.


What draft board he created for the Redskins is the property of the Redskins. They would be no deal necessary; it's theirs to use as they see fit. I suspect that Allen will be cagey on whose board ended up driving the picks so that if they are successful it will be his and if they fail they'll be McCloughan's.

Quote:
Maybe they agreed to pay him several more weeks -so he may still be on the payroll. Like the rest of us -still looking to dispell the doom and gloom and find the silver lining !


Well, they claim they fired him for cause so they wouldn't be paying him further. That said, I suspect there will be a lawsuit leading to a settlement to get some of his contract.
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