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Titans Sign S Cyprien
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ragevsuall17


Joined: 26 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans0021 wrote:
I hope I'm wrong. If he's used primarily in the Spence role, great. But, as rage mentioned elsewhere, Stafford played over 600 snaps last season. If we're giving him that same role, we're not helping our pass defense in any way.

I don't think the guy is a terrible football player, I just don't think the traditional in-the-box strong safety is an every-down player in today's NFL. And we're paying him that way and he'll likely see those kinds of snaps. Which sure, may benefit our run defense, but it will come at the continued expense of the part of the game we were already one of the worst in the league at.


I was more worried about the STs-specific signings... but it actually looks that that kid we got from Oakland may play defensive snaps... he'll be the new Stafford (only relied on D a little less maybe)... at least according to a couple of Robinson quotes. (It's interesting to note that all of our S's played between 550-656 snaps last season)

I really think... and I really hope I'm right... is that Cyprien will be an important sub-package player... he could somewhat replace Woodyard when they want to go with a smaller base... playing Cyprien as the 3rd S/4th LB... or a bigger Nickel with him as the 6th DB/3rd LBer. If this is the case, I like the move. If they really just signed him to be the full time starter at S alongside Byard, then I have to question the direction. Byard is a versatile S, but I don't know how effective he'll be as a full-time deep-1 type role... that's not his strength.

In this new NFL reality, teams play N most of the time... and playing a guy like Cyprien in the middle wouldn't hurt in the run game (his specialty), and should help in the pass game (keeping him underneath, not giving him deep responsiblities... he's an upgrade in pass defense to any of our LBs)....
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deeluxx3 wrote:
titans0021 wrote:
deeluxx3 wrote:
Kevin Byard is a FREE SAFETY that can play the run because he's that well-rounded

But that kid is a free safety
He played in the box and played well in the box last year. That's all I need from a strong safety. I'm not saying I want him playing the run and acting as a dime backer, but I'd rather utilize him as a guy that can step into the box and make plays on running downs rather than specifically start a safety that's only value comes against the run.


He played well in the box because he's a complete football player

But he will be most beneficial to our team as a FS ball-hawkinnnnn

I'd happily roll with two ball-hawking safeties. Laughing
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

titans0021 wrote:
My only hope is that this ends up like Sen'Derrick Marks. We all laughed at the Jaguars when they signed him and he inexplicably turned into a good football player. Maybe this is our chance to even things out. Laughing
This is basically what I expect to happen just because it's the perfect because Jags thing.

But like many have said, he's not been good thus far. If you can get him in the box on every play and never have a situation where he's tasked with coverage, you can probably get some solid play out of him. But once he goes into coverage, basically everything goes ho hell. He is a good tackler in the box most of the time with some hiccups, but once it comes to the pass game, he just can't do that at all. In 2015, he had like 18 missed tackles, and every single one of them was in coverage. He can't flip his hips to run with players, he gets trolled by double moves, he can't follow a TE or receiver when they change direction.

It would almost be best if you could get him to bulk up and try to be Mark Barron.
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
titans0021 wrote:
My only hope is that this ends up like Sen'Derrick Marks. We all laughed at the Jaguars when they signed him and he inexplicably turned into a good football player. Maybe this is our chance to even things out. Laughing
This is basically what I expect to happen just because it's the perfect because Jags thing.

But like many have said, he's not been good thus far. If you can get him in the box on every play and never have a situation where he's tasked with coverage, you can probably get some solid play out of him. But once he goes into coverage, basically everything goes ho hell. He is a good tackler in the box most of the time with some hiccups, but once it comes to the pass game, he just can't do that at all. In 2015, he had like 18 missed tackles, and every single one of them was in coverage. He can't flip his hips to run with players, he gets trolled by double moves, he can't follow a TE or receiver when they change direction.

It would almost be best if you could get him to bulk up and try to be Mark Barron.


I've mentioned it before that that's what I'd do with him... move him to ILB. Question... did the Jags ever discuss it... and if yes, why didn't the go through it.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ragevsuall17 wrote:
iPwn wrote:
titans0021 wrote:
My only hope is that this ends up like Sen'Derrick Marks. We all laughed at the Jaguars when they signed him and he inexplicably turned into a good football player. Maybe this is our chance to even things out. Laughing
This is basically what I expect to happen just because it's the perfect because Jags thing.

But like many have said, he's not been good thus far. If you can get him in the box on every play and never have a situation where he's tasked with coverage, you can probably get some solid play out of him. But once he goes into coverage, basically everything goes ho hell. He is a good tackler in the box most of the time with some hiccups, but once it comes to the pass game, he just can't do that at all. In 2015, he had like 18 missed tackles, and every single one of them was in coverage. He can't flip his hips to run with players, he gets trolled by double moves, he can't follow a TE or receiver when they change direction.

It would almost be best if you could get him to bulk up and try to be Mark Barron.


I've mentioned it before that that's what I'd do with him... move him to ILB. Question... did the Jags ever discuss it... and if yes, why didn't the go through it.
No idea if they discussed it internally. They didn't do it at least probably partially because Gus was obsessed with having a long time veteran at ILB to be team captain. It's why Telvin became the vocal leader of the entire team and best player on the defense in mid-2015 but wasn't given the headset, and why they refused to play Myles Jack for most of the year despite him clearly being the second best LB (behind Telvin) when he actually played. Also entirely possible they or he was against the move for whatever reason.
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VY-FTW


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's a upgrade over a couple of our safeties so I'm okay with it.

Just glad we have KB on the come up.
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Staffard had over 600 snaps, but we also played a lot of 3 safety and used him at the line of scrimmage. We also blitzed a ton meaning the amount of times we had two deep safetys was probably not very high. Just because he's not the type of player you're dreaming of, doesn't make him less of an addition. We gave up 4.0 yards per carry last year, so it's not like improving against the run is a bad thing. 3 X 4 = first down.

Most box safetys in the NFL are not great in coverage. That's what makes guys like Berry and Adams top 5 picks. Kam Chancellor was getting tons of cred as one of the better safetys in the NFL, despite the fact that he can't cover anyone. It's about how your skillset is used. Earl Thomas would be considered a bad safety as well if he was being used around the line of scrimmage. Patrick Chung is very effective in NE, despite his lack of coverage skills.

Duron Harmon had over 600 snaps in NE despite being their #3 S behind Devin McCourty and Patrick Chung. He would come on the field and play deep and Chung would play in the box. Expect the same type of thing to happen with Cyprien.

As long as we don't plan on using him in a lot of deep zone, which I highly doubt happens, I think we will be fine.
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Buckeyeboy89


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lamont wrote:
The #5 pick is being traded ladies and gents. You read it here first. Shocked Laughing



Agree.

I would much rather a Dynamic DE like Allen then a dynamic SS like Adams any way.
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Buckeyeboy89


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like this move.

It reminds me a lot of when we signed Chris Hope from the Steelers. The steel city laughed at us and was glad to see him go. We put him in his correct position at SS and he excelled and became a fan favorite on and off the field.

I look for history to repeat itself.
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Double Agent


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Late to the party.

Not gonna lie, flinched a little bit when I first saw this one. I'm willing to give Robinson a little benefit of the doubt for what he's done so far, and I actually trust the coaching staff to use him correctly. A rookie safety at #5 is still very possible in my opinion.

Very interested to see the final product of what the secondary looks like going into next year.
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titans0021


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It reminds me a lot of when we signed Chris Hope from the Steelers. The steel city laughed at us and was glad to see him go.


Steelers thread: March 6, 2006, "Titans agree to terms with former Steelers safety"

Quote:
That sucks, Hope was one of my favorite players.

Quote:
Hope was a good player for the Steelers. He called a lot of plays on defense so the Titans will be getting a leader. Hope is also a tackling machine. If the figures of around $4million a year are true, the Titans probably overpaid him but if the Titans can surround him with solid football players, they'll be rewarded.

Quote:
I would have loved to keep him around mainly because I just liked the way he hit, he's not necessarily the best in coverage but overall a damn good player.

Quote:
Hope is a very solid player, he was the calm that allowed Polomalu to play as wild as he does.

Quote:
he's a solid player and can be counted on. Not a top player but consistent and solid


Seriously guys, it takes me 30 seconds to look up these old threads. Laughing
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TitanSS


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope and Cyprien are very different players. Cyprien should make his bed near the LOS and stay there. A rookie should replace Reshad Johnson as our center-fielder and Byard should be allowed to roam and play deep, man-up, and near the LOS.

As much as I really do like this signing, I don't expect Cyprien to solve the back half of our defense. Expect to see him in a role similar to how NE uses Patrick Chung. If he is used properly, and considering we have - Lebeau and I doubt Robinson is bringing in players he doesn't want, he could be a very underrated signing.
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breakdown of the contract numbers:

4 years, 25M... 3M SB, 9M guaranteed

Year 1 - 2M salary, 2 M roster bonus (750k SB proration) - 4.75 cap hit
Year 2 - 4.5M salary, 2.5 M roster bonus (750k SB proration) - 7.75 cap hit
Year 3 - 5.5M salary (750k SB proration) - 6.25 cap hit
Year 4 - 5.5M salary (750k SB proration) - 6.25 cap hit

Guarantees are essentially everything paid out this year (3M SB, 2M salary, and 2M roster bonus). He has another 2M guaranteed in 2018 for injury only.

So essentially, the contract can be seen as a 1 year, 7M contract... with the Titans having outs every year after year 1...

If the Titans want to get out after this coming year, they cut him, take a 2.25M dead hit, but save 5.5M on the cap '18 cap. (Can save more in '18 if they spread the dead hit over 2 seasons)

Cutting after year 2, saves 4.75M in cap space in '19 taking a 1.5M dead hit (can also be spread over 2 seasons if they need to)

Cutting after year 3, saves 5.5M on the '20 cap taking a 750k cap hit.
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ragevsuall17


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Peter Reitz‏ @peterlreitz 2h2 hours ago
Cyprien lined up as a linebacker on 67.3% of his run defense snaps #Titans

Peter Reitz @peterlreitz
Johnathan Cyprien lined up as a linebacker on 48.9% of his defensive snaps in 2016, per @PFF #Titans


This is what I've been saying/looking for. I honestly believe Cyprien will be looked at as a LB... and even if his official position to start with is "SS", he'll be playing ILB for intents and purposes.

I would hope and expect both those %'s to go up, as close to 100% as possible.

If this is the plan, the contract makes great sense... essentially a 1-year contract with 3 team options. If he takes to the move to LB, then it presents great value... if not, you cut him.

While Cyprien may never be the greatest coverage guy, he would probably be considered a good coverage LB... focusing on short zones in the pass game (although his main draw would still be in the run game).

That's domino #1 in my offseason plan... domino #2, aka McCourty moving to FS... is next, watch... add a CB and suddenly our pass D doesn't look bad...
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lamont


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ragevsuall17 wrote:
Quote:
Peter Reitz‏ @peterlreitz 2h2 hours ago
Cyprien lined up as a linebacker on 67.3% of his run defense snaps #Titans

Peter Reitz @peterlreitz
Johnathan Cyprien lined up as a linebacker on 48.9% of his defensive snaps in 2016, per @PFF #Titans


This is what I've been saying/looking for. I honestly believe Cyprien will be looked at as a LB... and even if his official position to start with is "SS", he'll be playing ILB for intents and purposes.

I would hope and expect both those %'s to go up, as close to 100% as possible.

If this is the plan, the contract makes great sense... essentially a 1-year contract with 3 team options. If he takes to the move to LB, then it presents great value... if not, you cut him.

While Cyprien may never be the greatest coverage guy, he would probably be considered a good coverage LB... focusing on short zones in the pass game (although his main draw would still be in the run game).

That's domino #1 in my offseason plan... domino #2, aka McCourty moving to FS... is next, watch... add a CB and suddenly our pass D doesn't look bad...


Wishful thinking, I would get in the Malcolm Butler sweepstakes. I would give up #18 to the Pats. Trade back from #5 and pick up a 2nd. Adding the 2 starting CBs from a Super Bowl winner in one offseason. Cool
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