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WR Robert Woods signing with the LA Rams(5 years 39 million)
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
The LBC wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
I mean...Good for Woods that he got paid and went to his hometown team, But the rams overpaid for a WR who hasn't proven he can stay healthy or shown he can productive in 4 years in the NFL. Say what you want about the rams but he's going from a solid offense in buffalo to a pretty terrible one with the rams, He'll be the no.2 WR in L.A but really he'll be the no.1 since teams don't fear Tavon Austin and no matter how much you scheme you can't make up for the fact Woods just isn't that good of a player.


There were people who said the same things about Emmanuel Sanders and Golden Tate when they left their respective teams. Scheme and role make a huge difference. In the end, it'll come down to Goff. If he develops into a quality QB, Woods should do quite well.


Yeah but they were at least solid receivers before they left and went to pass happy offense with very good QBs (Peyton before he dropped off, and of course stafford) Scheme and role do make a difference, but they still can't make up for the fact Woods Struggled to produce for 4 straight seasons (never topped 700 yards) he's JAG nothing more. I have zero Hopes goff develops into anything more than a backup you hope never sees the field, I mean Bortles threw for 35 TDs coming off his awful rookie season so it's possible for Goff to Improve I just doubt it.

Well then the reality is that Woods could be Jerry Rice reincarnate and you'd still be hating on this signing.

Your prerogative to write off a young QB not even a full season's worth of starts into his career. My prerogative to think you look foolish doing so, too, I suppose.


In all fairness, he did say he doesnt have HOPE that Goff will be any good. He might be wrong, but if was a person who didnt like Goff coming out, there isnt much wrong with that assessment as Goff really didnt do much to change anyones mind last year.

If you didnt like Goff coming out, chances are, you still dont like him.

If you DID like Goff coming out, its too soon to give up on him.

Either way, its too soon to write him off, but there is nothing wrong with someone saying they dont have much hope for him if they were never a fan of his to begin with.

You have a point, but perhaps the smarter thing for him to do would be to actually elaborate and say that he didn't like Goff coming out - or even why. Blanket statements are lazy and make people look lazy.

I'll own my personal stake in this, but he certainly comes across like someone who has decided point-blank the player is unsalvageable - which is foolish. I was massive (MASSIVELY) critical of Manziel, but even I refused to write off that he could succeed. Honestly, he still could; it's just exceedingly low-probability because concerns that existed when he was a prospect only further compounded once he was a pro and it hamstrung him from even having the opportunity to fix his flaws. Effectively, he situationally Plaxico'd himself.
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The LBC wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
The LBC wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
I mean...Good for Woods that he got paid and went to his hometown team, But the rams overpaid for a WR who hasn't proven he can stay healthy or shown he can productive in 4 years in the NFL. Say what you want about the rams but he's going from a solid offense in buffalo to a pretty terrible one with the rams, He'll be the no.2 WR in L.A but really he'll be the no.1 since teams don't fear Tavon Austin and no matter how much you scheme you can't make up for the fact Woods just isn't that good of a player.


There were people who said the same things about Emmanuel Sanders and Golden Tate when they left their respective teams. Scheme and role make a huge difference. In the end, it'll come down to Goff. If he develops into a quality QB, Woods should do quite well.


Yeah but they were at least solid receivers before they left and went to pass happy offense with very good QBs (Peyton before he dropped off, and of course stafford) Scheme and role do make a difference, but they still can't make up for the fact Woods Struggled to produce for 4 straight seasons (never topped 700 yards) he's JAG nothing more. I have zero Hopes goff develops into anything more than a backup you hope never sees the field, I mean Bortles threw for 35 TDs coming off his awful rookie season so it's possible for Goff to Improve I just doubt it.

Well then the reality is that Woods could be Jerry Rice reincarnate and you'd still be hating on this signing.

Your prerogative to write off a young QB not even a full season's worth of starts into his career. My prerogative to think you look foolish doing so, too, I suppose.


In all fairness, he did say he doesnt have HOPE that Goff will be any good. He might be wrong, but if was a person who didnt like Goff coming out, there isnt much wrong with that assessment as Goff really didnt do much to change anyones mind last year.

If you didnt like Goff coming out, chances are, you still dont like him.

If you DID like Goff coming out, its too soon to give up on him.

Either way, its too soon to write him off, but there is nothing wrong with someone saying they dont have much hope for him if they were never a fan of his to begin with.

You have a point, but perhaps the smarter thing for him to do would be to actually elaborate and say that he didn't like Goff coming out - or even why. Blanket statements are lazy and make people look lazy.

I'll own my personal stake in this, but he certainly comes across like someone who has decided point-blank the player is unsalvageable - which is foolish. I was massive (MASSIVELY) critical of Manziel, but even I refused to write off that he could succeed. Honestly, he still could; it's just exceedingly low-probability because concerns that existed when he was a prospect only further compounded once he was a pro and it hamstrung him from even having the opportunity to fix his flaws. Effectively, he situationally Plaxico'd himself.


I agree with your general assessment, but its a pain in the butt to cite your entire outlook of a player every time you speak negatively of them.

Dont get me wrong, if someone is being notably unreasonable or just chanting over and over that a player sucks without any kind of context or elaboration, then its pretty transparent they are just hating. But I know that when I say I dont care for a player, I dont breakdown in detail why I dont like them EVERY time. If it calls for it, sure....but in an instance like this, where he just mentioned not liking Goff as a sidenote, I dont see a huge issue with not going into detail.

Anyway, I dont want to derail the thread for a Goff conversation. Just saying I dont think what he said was totally unreasonable.
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OleXmad


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
The LBC wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
The LBC wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
jrry32 wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
I mean...Good for Woods that he got paid and went to his hometown team, But the rams overpaid for a WR who hasn't proven he can stay healthy or shown he can productive in 4 years in the NFL. Say what you want about the rams but he's going from a solid offense in buffalo to a pretty terrible one with the rams, He'll be the no.2 WR in L.A but really he'll be the no.1 since teams don't fear Tavon Austin and no matter how much you scheme you can't make up for the fact Woods just isn't that good of a player.


There were people who said the same things about Emmanuel Sanders and Golden Tate when they left their respective teams. Scheme and role make a huge difference. In the end, it'll come down to Goff. If he develops into a quality QB, Woods should do quite well.


Yeah but they were at least solid receivers before they left and went to pass happy offense with very good QBs (Peyton before he dropped off, and of course stafford) Scheme and role do make a difference, but they still can't make up for the fact Woods Struggled to produce for 4 straight seasons (never topped 700 yards) he's JAG nothing more. I have zero Hopes goff develops into anything more than a backup you hope never sees the field, I mean Bortles threw for 35 TDs coming off his awful rookie season so it's possible for Goff to Improve I just doubt it.

Well then the reality is that Woods could be Jerry Rice reincarnate and you'd still be hating on this signing.

Your prerogative to write off a young QB not even a full season's worth of starts into his career. My prerogative to think you look foolish doing so, too, I suppose.


In all fairness, he did say he doesnt have HOPE that Goff will be any good. He might be wrong, but if was a person who didnt like Goff coming out, there isnt much wrong with that assessment as Goff really didnt do much to change anyones mind last year.

If you didnt like Goff coming out, chances are, you still dont like him.

If you DID like Goff coming out, its too soon to give up on him.

Either way, its too soon to write him off, but there is nothing wrong with someone saying they dont have much hope for him if they were never a fan of his to begin with.

You have a point, but perhaps the smarter thing for him to do would be to actually elaborate and say that he didn't like Goff coming out - or even why. Blanket statements are lazy and make people look lazy.

I'll own my personal stake in this, but he certainly comes across like someone who has decided point-blank the player is unsalvageable - which is foolish. I was massive (MASSIVELY) critical of Manziel, but even I refused to write off that he could succeed. Honestly, he still could; it's just exceedingly low-probability because concerns that existed when he was a prospect only further compounded once he was a pro and it hamstrung him from even having the opportunity to fix his flaws. Effectively, he situationally Plaxico'd himself.


I agree with your general assessment, but its a pain in the butt to cite your entire outlook of a player every time you speak negatively of them.

Dont get me wrong, if someone is being notably unreasonable or just chanting over and over that a player sucks without any kind of context or elaboration, then its pretty transparent they are just hating. But I know that when I say I dont care for a player, I dont breakdown in detail why I dont like them EVERY time. If it calls for it, sure....but in an instance like this, where he just mentioned not liking Goff as a sidenote, I dont see a huge issue with not going into detail.

Anyway, I dont want to derail the thread for a Goff conversation. Just saying I dont think what he said was totally unreasonable.


@LBC I liked Goff coming out of college(over every other QB) and thought everyone choosing the small school prospect Carson Wentz over Goff was foolish, I was very wrong about that obviously (at least going off their rookie seasons so far) and while Goff's story is far from written and anything can happen (2015 Peyton won a SB and he was easily the worst QB in the league, Tim Tebow won a playoff game etc.) I just don't see Goff succeeding simply due to the rams failure to surround him with the talent he needs to be successful. Robert Woods is far from the worst WR in the NFL but he's barely a no.2 WR and the rams have a very big lack of talent around Goff as of now. (I mean the rams best offensive player is a 35 year old LT as of now, Possibly Gurley if he rebounds)

Addressing the coaching while Hiring McVay wasn't the move I would've done if I was owner it's still a step in the right direction and he should help Goff develop into "OK" starter at the very least, but even the best coaching can't fix the talent issues the rams have, Their O-line while not the worst it's far from a strong suit and will have at least 3 new starters next year (Whitworth, Insert other 2 starters because I am not very familair with the rams roster) along with Saffold and Robinson presumably, his weapons as of now are Tavon Austin and Robert Woods and a 2nd year TE Tyler Higbee and Brian Quick who might actually be the rams best WR.

Anyway the point I'm trying to make is Goff has a shot to be successful, maybe McVay develops Goff and a rookie or two into being worthwhile players and the rams end up going 7-9 and the future doesn't look so bleak, But I highly doubt it due to the rams proven Track Record of failing to surround their QBs with talent for the past 8 or so years. See Samuel Bradford and his glass knee, though Injuries did screw him over more than the lack of talent but it was still a big issue he faced, So yeah I don't think Goff will succeed he could but probably not we won't know until Goff's 4th year in the league or so so there's plenty of time for me to be wrong.

@FourThreeMafia thank you for supporting my previous posts.
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OleXmad wrote:
Brian Quick who might actually be the rams best WR.


Stop. It's easy to convince yourself that you know every team well because the vast majority of people IRL just don't know much about football (they're casual fans), but you really don't know much about the Rams.

Brian Quick is a free agent, and you can count on one hand the number of Rams fans who wouldn't be angry if he was re-signed. I wanted the Rams to deactivate Brian Quick in Week 17. Many other Rams fans felt the same way. Quick quit on the team. He's a mentally weak, mistake prone bust. I couldn't be happier that he's gone.

Hiring McVay was a brilliant move. The Rams came out of that decision smelling like roses. They hired an offensive-minded HC who managed to pull the best DC in the NFL and put together a staff of respected, veteran coaches.

As for your contention that the Rams lack talent because Andrew Whitworth is the top offensive player, he's one of the best LTs in the game. That's not an insult. That's like claiming that the Patriots lack talent because their best player is a 39 year old QB.

Now, obviously, the Rams do appear to lack offensive talent at the current point in time. But we have the rest of FA, the draft, and the rest of the off-season to get that figured out. I look forward to seeing what McVay and his staff have planned. I feel very confident in the team's outlook moving forward. We may not contend in 2017, but I firmly believe we will soon.

Why? Because our coaching staff is awesome on paper.

You are entitled to your opinions, but when you say things that completely wrong about the Rams, I'll call you on it. I'd expect you to do the same thing if I said inaccurate things about your favorite team.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NVRamsFan wrote:
Every contract signed is about 25% more than what we think it should be. This offseason with the ridiculous cap space is changing the rules.

Someone gets it.
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OleXmad


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
OleXmad wrote:
Brian Quick who might actually be the rams best WR.


Stop. It's easy to convince yourself that you know every team well because the vast majority of people IRL just don't know much about football (they're casual fans), but you really don't know much about the Rams.

Brian Quick is a free agent, and you can count on one hand the number of Rams fans who wouldn't be angry if he was re-signed. I wanted the Rams to deactivate Brian Quick in Week 17. Many other Rams fans felt the same way. Quick quit on the team. He's a mentally weak, mistake prone bust. I couldn't be happier that he's gone.

Hiring McVay was a brilliant move. The Rams came out of that decision smelling like roses. They hired an offensive-minded HC who managed to pull the best DC in the NFL and put together a staff of respected, veteran coaches.

As for your contention that the Rams lack talent because Andrew Whitworth is the top offensive player, he's one of the best LTs in the game. That's not an insult. That's like claiming that the Patriots lack talent because their best player is a 39 year old QB.

Now, obviously, the Rams do appear to lack offensive talent at the current point in time. But we have the rest of FA, the draft, and the rest of the off-season to get that figured out. I look forward to seeing what McVay and his staff have planned. I feel very confident in the team's outlook moving forward. We may not contend in 2017, but I firmly believe we will soon.

Why? Because our coaching staff is awesome on paper.

You are entitled to your opinions, but when you say things that completely wrong about the Rams, I'll call you on it. I'd expect you to do the same thing if I said inaccurate things about your favorite team.


I believe I even admitted I didn't know every single thing about the rams, But that was more of a joke than being serious about Brian Quick being anything more than a depth WR. The bolded is fair since you obviously know more about the rams than me, But I'd like tp point out your coachign staff looks good "on paper" Sean McVay could be a good HC or he could end up being the youngest coach in NFL history who might in a little over his head, I mean he can't be any worse than Jeff Fisher and that in itself is a solid upgrade and he did help develop Kirk Cousins so that's a plus. But who knows the rams have been bad for too long it's long overdue they actually start winning and I hope that does happen, I don't think it's likely but anything can happen.
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HighMotorGuy


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rams are the new jersey nets of the NFL. Just a really bad team with no future. Well at least they got an 80 year old DC who will probably retire next year and Todd 3.0ypc Gurley lol
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HighMotorGuy wrote:
Rams are the new jersey nets of the NFL. Just a really bad team with no future. Well at least they got an 80 year old DC who will probably retire next year and Todd 3.0ypc Gurley lol


They kept Jeff Fisher waay too long.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would have been a great #3 here for Carr. Maybe #2 if Crabs doesn't get it together.

He'll struggle to live up to that money given they don't have a good QB right now.
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ramssuperbowl99


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Now, obviously, the Rams do appear to lack offensive talent at the current point in time. But we have the rest of FA, the draft, and the rest of the off-season to get that figured out. I look forward to seeing what McVay and his staff have planned. I feel very confident in the team's outlook moving forward. We may not contend in 2017, but I firmly believe we will soon.

Why? Because our coaching staff is awesome on paper.

You are entitled to your opinions, but when you say things that completely wrong about the Rams, I'll call you on it. I'd expect you to do the same thing if I said inaccurate things about your favorite team.
One thing I think needs to be noted is the cost the Rams have consistently paid the price of hiring and firing coaches and management. The coaching staff has a very interesting unknown up top, and solid coordinators. It's almost positively an upgrade (the exception being if McVay is a complete bust) on the Fisher staff.

But now the Rams are running a 3-4. Wade Phillips is a better DC than Gregg Williams, I'm not disputing that. But is Wade Phillips enough of a better DC than Gregg Williams to overcome possibly playing multiple players at spots that don't really fit? Or having to go out and spend more draft/FA resources on guys who do fit those spots?

What about having to give William Hayes away? (I say this not knowing how he played last year, but he had been a consistent performer.) Robert Quinn is nice fit in a 3-4. Is Aaron Donald as good a fit there as he was at the 4-3 UT spot? Can Brockers play NG at a high level? It's just more uncertainty and more questions, and the Rams are short on draft picks so it's not like Phillips can go out and get his guys in a single offseason.

The Rams aren't the only team that does this obviously, and this isn't me criticizing any one individual move. It's just a factor that adds up over time.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Woods but I don't think this situation is any different than what he went through in Buffalo. He could flourish on a team like the Giants, Patriots, Chargers or Redskins but I don't expect him to be able to much here...
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ramssuperbowl99 wrote:
One thing I think needs to be noted is the cost the Rams have consistently paid the price of hiring and firing coaches and management. The coaching staff has a very interesting unknown up top, and solid coordinators. It's almost positively an upgrade (the exception being if McVay is a complete bust) on the Fisher staff.

But now the Rams are running a 3-4. Wade Phillips is a better DC than Gregg Williams, I'm not disputing that. But is Wade Phillips enough of a better DC than Gregg Williams to overcome possibly playing multiple players at spots that don't really fit? Or having to go out and spend more draft/FA resources on guys who do fit those spots?


People get too hung on the 3-4/4-3 distinction. Wade's defense essentially gives its players the same responsibilities as Williams's defense. They'll align in different spots, but their roles won't be very different. There are a few spots that will differ. For example, Will Hayes doesn't really fit as a 3-4 LDE or a 3-4 SOLB in Wade's scheme. And there's a legitimate question as to whether Barron will slot in at SS or ILB in the scheme.

In that realm, the Rams likely need to add a DL who can either play 3-4 LDE or NT in Wade's scheme. They already added Barwin to play 3-4 SOLB.

Quote:
What about having to give William Hayes away? (I say this not knowing how he played last year, but he had been a consistent performer.) Robert Quinn is nice fit in a 3-4. Is Aaron Donald as good a fit there as he was at the 4-3 UT spot? Can Brockers play NG at a high level? It's just more uncertainty and more questions, and the Rams are short on draft picks so it's not like Phillips can go out and get his guys in a single offseason.


Hayes is still a solid player, but Barwin is arguably an upgrade. Aaron Donald will be playing the same role as he played in the 4-3 except it will be harder to double him in Wade's scheme. He'll likely align as either a 3-technique or as a 4-technique shaded to the inside shoulder of the LT. It's not really a change for him vs. what he did for Williams. As I said, it should actually give him more 1-on-1 opportunities because we'll have essentially 5 DLs in the base defense. Of course, the sub-packages are pretty much identical to the 4-3.(2-4-5 is just a 4-2-5 look with the DEs in a two-point stance)

I'm not sure whether Brockers will play NT or 3-4 LDE, but again, his responsibilities wouldn't change. At NT, he'd align as a 0-technique shaded towards the strong-side shoulder of the Center. Not a a huge difference from where he lined up under Williams.

Plus, Phillips has shown throughout his career that he's one of the best making the most out of what he has. Check out his first year defenses in his last 5 stops:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/den/2015.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/2011.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal/2007.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sdg/2004.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/atl/2002.htm

Quote:
The Rams aren't the only team that does this obviously, and this isn't me criticizing any one individual move. It's just a factor that adds up over time.


Yes, it adds up over time, but the Rams did give Fisher five years. That's an eternity in the NFL. He couldn't get it done. It was time to start fresh. If you look at the leaders they have, McVay led one of the best offenses in the NFL, Phillips led one of the best defenses, and Fassel led one of the best special teams units. Yes, there are questions about how McVay will do as a HC, but you can't argue with the top coaches.

And it definitely helps that he hired the best OL Coach on the market (Aaron Kromer). I think all Rams fans know how bad the OL has been dating back to the end of the Martz tenure. Kromer has a strong track record of success. On top of Kromer, you have an offensive staff who should be able to develop Goff (McVay, LaFleur, and Olson). If Goff fails, I can't blame the coaching.

patsfan25 wrote:
I like Woods but I don't think this situation is any different than what he went through in Buffalo. He could flourish on a team like the Giants, Patriots, Chargers or Redskins but I don't expect him to be able to much here...


It's different. It all hinges on Goff, but Goff is a different type of QB. Plus, the Rams run a very different system. McVay runs a WCO that will accentuate Woods's strengths. He'll slot into the Pierre Garcon role.

Tyrod's game doesn't really mesh with Woods. Woods is a good route runner. His game meshes best with a QB whose game revolves around timing and precision. His game meshes especially well with a QB who can move through progressions in a timely manner. Neither are strengths of Tyrod's.

Now, there are legitimate questions as to whether Goff can be that type of QB. I believe he will be, but some don't. However, if Goff is successful, it'll undoubtedly be because of his timing, precision, and mental processing speed. Thus, if Goff succeeds, it'll place Woods in a role and with a QB that mesh well with his game.
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NVRamsFan


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We know now most of the details of the Woods deal.

2017 $3m base $4m roster bonus fully guaranteed.
2018 $5m base $3m roster bonus guarantees 5th day of league year.
2019 $4.5m base 500k roster bonus
2020 $5.5m base 500k roster bonus
2021 $7.5m base 500k roster bonus

There are incentives each year of 600k which if met triggers an escalator in the following year of a 500k bonus.

So 5 years $34 million with $5 million in incentives and escalators. First year guaranteed if they want they can get out of it for 1 year $7 million after this season.
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Tyty


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's really big money for a guy that hasn't done much yet
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StLunatic88


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyty wrote:
That's really big money for a guy that hasn't done much yet
the tag line of 2017 Free Agency
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