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What are you ok spending for Pryor?
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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 14692
Location: CINCINNATI
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
I guess you are right. Everyone is just lining up to come/stay here. Who's being obtuse?

And why are you picking and choosing which "reports" you decide to listen to? One report says Pryor offered us the same deal he took while another says it was 4 years 52 million. So which is it? The one you like best?


We lost one free agent. We resigned one before the they hit the market (Collins) and 3 more once free agency began. And you're assertion is folks are leaving in droves and no one wants to play here. Cool story. 4 in, one out.

Whichever deal, pick one, it's irrelevant. If either of those reports are true, we could have resigned him had the FO wanted to. If they're false, it's still irrelevant as they could have prevented him from ever hitting the market.

But please, don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I be more concern about a player leaving that the Browns went really hard after to stay. Like Mack. The other players that have left over the past two seasons, got fair offers, pretty much their market value. They turned it down and then came back trying to get the same offer or tried to work them for more money and they said no.
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
The other players that have left over the past two seasons, got fair offers, pretty much their market value. They turned it down and then came back trying to get the same offer or tried to work them for more money and they said no.


That seems just so awful and petty.
We offer them a deal, they say no to try and look for more, and when they don't get it they come back and agree to do the original offer and we said no???

Talking about making it personal by the front office, sheesh. The contract squabble garbage is an afterthought when the season rolls around. Hopefully they learn that soon.

Seems really silly to offer a guy a deal then not do the same exact deal after they test their market value.
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Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
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tbone32


Joined: 25 Nov 2016
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
The other players that have left over the past two seasons, got fair offers, pretty much their market value. They turned it down and then came back trying to get the same offer or tried to work them for more money and they said no.


That seems just so awful and petty.
We offer them a deal, they say no to try and look for more, and when they don't get it they come back and agree to do the original offer and we said no???

Talking about making it personal by the front office, sheesh. The contract squabble garbage is an afterthought when the season rolls around. Hopefully they learn that soon.

Seems really silly to offer a guy a deal then not do the same exact deal after they test their market value.

Duke your takes are what I'd expect from Tony Grossi. They're illogical and showing that if you don't understand exactly what the FO is doing it must be wrong.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
The other players that have left over the past two seasons, got fair offers, pretty much their market value. They turned it down and then came back trying to get the same offer or tried to work them for more money and they said no.


That seems just so awful and petty.
We offer them a deal, they say no to try and look for more, and when they don't get it they come back and agree to do the original offer and we said no???

Talking about making it personal by the front office, sheesh. The contract squabble garbage is an afterthought when the season rolls around. Hopefully they learn that soon.

Seems really silly to offer a guy a deal then not do the same exact deal after they test their market value.


Well they test the market and found out their value is less, why should the Browns come back with the same offer. Browns just found out their market value and adjust their offer.

You want to test the market, well good for you, better hope your value is higher, not lowered because if its lower, then the team better adjust the offer. Not taking it personal. Just seems like the smart thing to do.

It be like taking a valuable item to the pawn store. Pawn guy sees the item, likes the item and is willing to offer $100. I turned it down because I think it is worth more. Pawn guy brings in a guy to see its market value. Report comes that the item isnt worth all that much. I find out my item isnt worth as much as I hope and I try and get that $100 offer. Well with the market value being established the pawn guy, gives his new offer of $85. Should I be upset the pawn guy changed his offer?

Whenever new information is brought in, they better reevaluate the situation.
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So when a guy like Shwartz comes back and says he will take the original offer, how does our front office even know what he was offered?

He might have been offered the exact same but wanted to stay in Cleveland?

So because we did such "good business" we ended up being out a left tackle and our #1 WR??

Great
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3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
So when a guy like Shwartz comes back and says he will take the original offer, how does our front office even know what he was offered?

He might have been offered the exact same but wanted to stay in Cleveland?

So because we did such "good business" we ended up being out a left tackle and our #1 WR??

Great


If he wanted to stay in Cleveland, they never would of left to hear what other teams offer.

Its easy to here the demands of what other teams are offering, when reports coming out that other teams were interested but backed off because they are demanding too much money.

Just seems like Pryor wanted to get paid. Browns offered him a decent contract but wanted the one year so he can play and hit the market again and see if he can get the biggest contract possible
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sdrawkcab321


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tbone32 wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
The other players that have left over the past two seasons, got fair offers, pretty much their market value. They turned it down and then came back trying to get the same offer or tried to work them for more money and they said no.


That seems just so awful and petty.
We offer them a deal, they say no to try and look for more, and when they don't get it they come back and agree to do the original offer and we said no???

Talking about making it personal by the front office, sheesh. The contract squabble garbage is an afterthought when the season rolls around. Hopefully they learn that soon.

Seems really silly to offer a guy a deal then not do the same exact deal after they test their market value.

Duke your takes are what I'd expect from Tony Grossi. They're illogical and showing that if you don't understand exactly what the FO is doing it must be wrong.


2 years in a row we lose our top FA because we let them hit the open market without a franchise tag. Great job front office! The vision is so clear.
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hornbybrown


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdrawkcab321 wrote:
tbone32 wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
The other players that have left over the past two seasons, got fair offers, pretty much their market value. They turned it down and then came back trying to get the same offer or tried to work them for more money and they said no.


That seems just so awful and petty.
We offer them a deal, they say no to try and look for more, and when they don't get it they come back and agree to do the original offer and we said no???

Talking about making it personal by the front office, sheesh. The contract squabble garbage is an afterthought when the season rolls around. Hopefully they learn that soon.

Seems really silly to offer a guy a deal then not do the same exact deal after they test their market value.

Duke your takes are what I'd expect from Tony Grossi. They're illogical and showing that if you don't understand exactly what the FO is doing it must be wrong.


2 years in a row we lose our top FA because we let them hit the open market without a franchise tag. Great job front office! The vision is so clear.


Lol who exactly did we lose that was our top Free agent?..... On what planet is Pryor better than Jamie Collins?
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sdrawkcab321


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hornbybrown wrote:
sdrawkcab321 wrote:
tbone32 wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
The other players that have left over the past two seasons, got fair offers, pretty much their market value. They turned it down and then came back trying to get the same offer or tried to work them for more money and they said no.


That seems just so awful and petty.
We offer them a deal, they say no to try and look for more, and when they don't get it they come back and agree to do the original offer and we said no???

Talking about making it personal by the front office, sheesh. The contract squabble garbage is an afterthought when the season rolls around. Hopefully they learn that soon.

Seems really silly to offer a guy a deal then not do the same exact deal after they test their market value.

Duke your takes are what I'd expect from Tony Grossi. They're illogical and showing that if you don't understand exactly what the FO is doing it must be wrong.


2 years in a row we lose our top FA because we let them hit the open market without a franchise tag. Great job front office! The vision is so clear.


Lol who exactly did we lose that was our top Free agent?..... On what planet is Pryor better than Jamie Collins?



I'm referring to players who hit free agency.
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:

Great


If he wanted to stay in Cleveland, they never would of left to hear what other teams offer.
[/quote]




Right. If he wanted to stay, he woulda stayed. That is pretty much my point. Right now guys do not want to come here or stay here. Some do, sure When we pay up, meaning pay MORE
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3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 19560
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:


If he wanted to stay in Cleveland, they never would of left to hear what other teams offer.





Right. If he wanted to stay, he woulda stayed. That is pretty much my point. Right now guys do not want to come here or stay here. Some do, sure When we pay up, meaning pay MORE


It seems as though you are trying to blame the front office for what has been an ongoing issue for 17+ years now.

This front office is trying to establish itself as not doing business the same as has been done in the past, and I think they realize that quite a lot of free agents have used the Browns in the past to pad their account either by signing here or taking our offer to other teams.

This front office determines your role, makes an offer, and if you don't take it, they move on to the next plan rather than desperately throwing cash around to retain guys who don't even want to play here.

I see it as a welcome change. Do you ever see New England being held hostage in contact negotiations? No, you don't.

Now the question is, are they that way in free agency because they are a successful team, or are they a successful team because they are that way in free agency? Case can be made for both sides, but it seems like our front office is betting on the latter.
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LETSGOBROWNIES


Joined: 06 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:


If he wanted to stay in Cleveland, they never would of left to hear what other teams offer.





Right. If he wanted to stay, he woulda stayed. That is pretty much my point. Right now guys do not want to come here or stay here. Some do, sure When we pay up, meaning pay MORE


It seems as though you are trying to blame the front office for what has been an ongoing issue for 17+ years now.

This front office is trying to establish itself as not doing business the same as has been done in the past, and I think they realize that quite a lot of free agents have used the Browns in the past to pad their account either by signing here or taking our offer to other teams.

This front office determines your role, makes an offer, and if you don't take it, they move on to the next plan rather than desperately throwing cash around to retain guys who don't even want to play here.

I see it as a welcome change. Do you ever see New England being held hostage in contact negotiations? No, you don't.

Now the question is, are they that way in free agency because they are a successful team, or are they a successful team because they are that way in free agency? Case can be made for both sides, but it seems like our front office is betting on the latter.


Great post.
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duke2056


Joined: 21 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
duke2056 wrote:
buno67 wrote:


If he wanted to stay in Cleveland, they never would of left to hear what other teams offer.





Right. If he wanted to stay, he woulda stayed. That is pretty much my point. Right now guys do not want to come here or stay here. Some do, sure When we pay up, meaning pay MORE


It seems as though you are trying to blame the front office for what has been an ongoing issue for 17+ years now.

This front office is trying to establish itself as not doing business the same as has been done in the past, and I think they realize that quite a lot of free agents have used the Browns in the past to pad their account either by signing here or taking our offer to other teams.

This front office determines your role, makes an offer, and if you don't take it, they move on to the next plan rather than desperately throwing cash around to retain guys who don't even want to play here.

I see it as a welcome change. Do you ever see New England being held hostage in contact negotiations? No, you don't.

Now the question is, are they that way in free agency because they are a successful team, or are they a successful team because they are that way in free agency? Case can be made for both sides, but it seems like our front office is betting on the latter.


Answer this question. Would players rather play in New England or Cleveland?

That should answer the question as to whether their current ways made them a great team or KEEP them a great team.

I love how the Pats do things, but we can not do it that way until players WANT to come here.

The question is, what do we need to do to get players to want to play here? I am not sure penny pinching right NOW is the best way to get that done.

No, I a not blaming the front office for the failures of the 17 years prior, however, I am blaming them for losing some guys they really should have kept.
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3/18/17 predictions:
Jimmy G stays with New England this year.
We draft Garrett at #1 (out on a limb there).
We trade back from 12 for another 2018 1st.
We do NOT draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like said, it sucks losing players but when you are losing players from a 1-15 team, 2-14 team, 3-13 team, is it that great of a lose?

Also you have a WR who can be viewed as an equal to Pryor come in here and sign the contract he didn't want.

So is that players not wanting to be here?

Also can't call the FO being cheap when they just gave Collins his deal, made two huge signings for the OL, signed Britt, and gave Bitonio a nice extension.

What the FO did outside of Pryor was fantastic. Sucks they couldn't keep Pryor but they were skeptical about him. Other franchises were too. No one wanted to pay him the money he was demanding. He was demanding one year deals showing teams he wants to play one year and then seek another contract from someone else. Browns were willing to pay but only for a multi year deal but Pryor wanted the one year deal so he can get more money from the brow a next year or from the highest bidder again.

Browns don't pay him they are cheap, other teams won't pay him they look fine.

Pryor leaving is on the pryor as much as the Browns. Yeah browns could of kept him with the tag but they didn't want him for one year.

Browns arnt in the market for signing talent for one year deals. Like you said they are trying to build something and change the culture. Bring players or resigning players for one year deals arnt going to be beneficial for the Browns unless they are to unproven players like Pryor was last year.
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