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iPwn


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject: Free Agency hype thread Reply with quote

Now's the time of the year that the Jags shine. Time to see which guys we overpay, get hyped for, only to see them never work out.


Names I've seen linked so far

AJ Bouye
Kevin Zeitler
Tony Jefferson
Calias Campbell
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Free Agency hype thread Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Now's the time of the year that the Jags shine. Time to see which guys we overpay, get hyped for, only to see them never work out.


Names I've seen linked so far

AJ Bouye
Kevin Zeitler
Tony Jefferson
Calias Campbell


That Malik Jackson guy sure has disappointed the heck out of us. Wink
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Free Agency hype thread Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Now's the time of the year that the Jags shine. Time to see which guys we overpay, get hyped for, only to see them never work out.


Names I've seen linked so far

AJ Bouye
Kevin Zeitler
Tony Jefferson
Calias Campbell


That Malik Jackson guy sure has disappointed the heck out of us. Wink
Red Bryant
Zane Beadles
Toby Gerhart
Chris Clemons
Sergio Brown
Davon House
Jared Odrick
Jermey Parnell
Julius Thomas
Stefan Wisniewski
Tashaun Gipson
Chris Ivory
Kelvin Beachum
Prince Amukamara
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VLoo


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Free Agency hype thread Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Now's the time of the year that the Jags shine. Time to see which guys we overpay, get hyped for, only to see them never work out.


Names I've seen linked so far

AJ Bouye
Kevin Zeitler
Tony Jefferson
Calias Campbell


That Malik Jackson guy sure has disappointed the heck out of us. Wink
Red Bryant
Zane Beadles
Toby Gerhart
Chris Clemons
Sergio Brown
Davon House
Jared Odrick
Jermey Parnell
Julius Thomas
Stefan Wisniewski
Tashaun Gipson
Chris Ivory
Kelvin Beachum
Prince Amukamara



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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Free Agency hype thread Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
iPwn wrote:
Now's the time of the year that the Jags shine. Time to see which guys we overpay, get hyped for, only to see them never work out.


Names I've seen linked so far

AJ Bouye
Kevin Zeitler
Tony Jefferson
Calias Campbell


That Malik Jackson guy sure has disappointed the heck out of us. Wink
Red Bryant
Zane Beadles
Toby Gerhart
Chris Clemons
Sergio Brown
Davon House
Jared Odrick
Jermey Parnell
Julius Thomas
Stefan Wisniewski
Tashaun Gipson
Chris Ivory
Kelvin Beachum
Prince Amukamara


I mean, if people really got that excited for most of the guys you listed than thats their fault.

Beadles, Odrick, Julius Thomas, Tashaun Gipson, Kelvin Beachum, Prince, and Ivory are the only guys that you really thought could be different makes on that list.

Odrick did pretty much what you hoped out of the big end in the defense and was solid. He just got paid too much. Beadles was a collossal bust, Broncos fans were saying he was trash the year before we signed him though. Julius was a non-blocking TE that had a ton of questions with the love for football prior, but obviously he was a stud in Denver (alongside Peyton). Prince was very solid last year and was a great signing, esp. at the price. Beachum was coming off an ACL and signed a 1 yr prove it deal. Gipson didn't make the turnovers or was the ballhawk we expected, but I don't think our pass defense is as good as it is with a black hole at FS.

Guys like Zeitler or Bouye would be on par with a Julius/Malik signing without the attitude/love for the game questions Julius brought.

FA isn't where you should be getting your team to the top with, but it sure helps to quick things up/increases your chances at improving if you hit on a guy or two. Giants FA preiod last year was HUGE in getting them where they got last year.

Not like any of those signings hurt as as we still are top 3 in cap in the NFL and most of those guys are gone without hurting us $ wise. As long as that happens, keep throwing darts at the board and trying to make hits like Roy Miller, Sen'Derrick Marks, Malik Jackson, etc.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every single one of those guys was signed to be a starter. They hit on one. Out of fifteen signed over the last three years.



The worst return on investments in the NFL. And it isn't even close to being comparable.

Spent 500M on players and all we have to show for it is Malik Jackson and a Punter.
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Last edited by iPwn on Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Every single one of those guys was signed to be a starter. They hit on one. Out of fifteen signed over the last three years.



The worst return on investments in the NFL. And it isn't even close to being comparable.


Yes, a team that gutted the roster and has been one of the least talented roster in that span of years where we were desperate and had to fill needs through FA to field an NFL team.

Just because they were signed to be starters doesn't mean anyone should have expected them to be a capable starter. I mean...Davon House (who was very solid year 1 btw, but still), Toby Gerhart, Jeremy Parnell who was a first time starter in his late 20's/age of 30, etc.?

I mean come on lol. Yes, the route we took didn't work. But only the handful of players I stated had good success for some duration of time elsewhere/weren't over the hill (Red Bryant).

Also, that graph is looking promising for most teams with above average spending across the board outside of a couple times. NY/OAK/DEN/TEN/WAS/TB/MIA/ATL/HOU (with utter garbage at QB play and consistently sitting 9-7 or so).
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

500 million dollars. I don't care what excuses you want to make, $500 mill should get you more than one good long term player and a Punter.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
500 million dollars. I don't care what excuses you want to make, $500 mill should get you more than one good long term player and a Punter.


Yes, we should have had more success. But it wouldn't have been drastically more positive even if we did what a normal team does in FA.

Building your roster through FA like we have isn't getting us a long list of even decent starters unless you are grabbing the cream of the crop. A large list of those guys aren't.

Guys like Calais Campbell, Bouye, Zeitler, Leary, Warford, Dre Kirkpatrick, Tony Jefferson, etc? Yeah, those type of players you should expect to contribute in a positive way as starters.

Sergio Brown? Jeremy Parnell? Toby Gerhart? Dan Skuta? Red Bryant? etc. etc.?

Well, I mean, if you want to expect great things from that then go ahead I guess...we weren't going anywhere with the shape our roster was in. You spend and hope these guys pan out. If they don't, you cut them loose like we have and keep drafting and hoping to get enough talent where you don't have to get several starters in an offseason from the FA market.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
iPwn wrote:
500 million dollars. I don't care what excuses you want to make, $500 mill should get you more than one good long term player and a Punter.


Yes, we should have had more success. But it wouldn't have been drastically more positive even if we did what a normal team does in FA.

Building your roster through FA like we have isn't getting us a long list of even decent starters unless you are grabbing the cream of the crop. A large list of those guys aren't.

Guys like Calais Campbell, Bouye, Zeitler, Leary, Warford, Dre Kirkpatrick, Tony Jefferson, etc? Yeah, those type of players you should expect to contribute in a positive way as starters.

Sergio Brown? Jeremy Parnell? Toby Gerhart? Dan Skuta? Red Bryant? etc. etc.?

Well, I mean, if you want to expect great things from that then go ahead I guess...we weren't going anywhere with the shape our roster was in. You spend and hope these guys pan out. If they don't, you cut them loose like we have and keep drafting and hoping to get enough talent where you don't have to get several starters in an offseason from the FA market.
My point is that if you're spending $500 million dollars on Free Agents, you should get return on that. A $4 million dollar per year player should play like a replacement level starter.

Each of the last three years, we've ended Free Agency with the same notion. The acquisitions get looked at and fans puff their chest over what we did. We see the big name(s) and talk about how they're going to be great. Malik, Thomas, etc. we see the next batch of up and down players and talk about how they're finally in the system that will take advantage of them; Prince, Gipson, Gerhart. We see the guys who are almost done and claim we can get another year or two out of them; Bryant, Clemons, Ivory, etc. we see the middling players and talk about how they're merely okay, but they're sooooo much better than we had before and will only help us take a step further. And so on. We talk about how we won Free Agency, and how all these pieces are upgrades and will finally help us take a step forward. And then the season comes along and we watch every single one of them (sans Malik) do nothing that was predicted of them.

This is our time of year. This is what we do.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony Jefferson also isn't good. He's Cyp if Cyp had two great Corners and an elite FS surrounding him.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
iPwn wrote:
500 million dollars. I don't care what excuses you want to make, $500 mill should get you more than one good long term player and a Punter.


Yes, we should have had more success. But it wouldn't have been drastically more positive even if we did what a normal team does in FA.

Building your roster through FA like we have isn't getting us a long list of even decent starters unless you are grabbing the cream of the crop. A large list of those guys aren't.

Guys like Calais Campbell, Bouye, Zeitler, Leary, Warford, Dre Kirkpatrick, Tony Jefferson, etc? Yeah, those type of players you should expect to contribute in a positive way as starters.

Sergio Brown? Jeremy Parnell? Toby Gerhart? Dan Skuta? Red Bryant? etc. etc.?

Well, I mean, if you want to expect great things from that then go ahead I guess...we weren't going anywhere with the shape our roster was in. You spend and hope these guys pan out. If they don't, you cut them loose like we have and keep drafting and hoping to get enough talent where you don't have to get several starters in an offseason from the FA market.
My point is that if you're spending $500 million dollars on Free Agents, you should get return on that. A $4 million dollar per year player should play like a replacement level starter.

Each of the last three years, we've ended Free Agency with the same notion. The acquisitions get looked at and fans puff their chest over what we did. We see the big name(s) and talk about how they're going to be great. Malik, Thomas, etc. we see the next batch of up and down players and talk about how they're finally in the system that will take advantage of them; Prince, Gipson, Gerhart. We see the guys who are almost done and claim we can get another year or two out of them; Bryant, Clemons, Ivory, etc. we see the middling players and talk about how they're merely okay, but they're sooooo much better than we had before and will only help us take a step further. And so on. We talk about how we won Free Agency, and how all these pieces are upgrades and will finally help us take a step forward. And then the season comes along and we watch every single one of them (sans Malik) do nothing that was predicted of them.

This is our time of year. This is what we do.


Yes, it's exciting. We're adding to our team. We talk about the best qualities and hope that maybe they can either replicate success from elsewhere or improve here due to changing teams/different schemes. This happens everywhere though. I mean, if you want to go that route a team has 7-8+ draft picks and if you hit on 3 of them it's considered a "great" draft, but in general you expect 1-2 hits and maybe a couple role players.

The percentages are never going to look good whenever you look at things like this. I agree that we have been poor in FA, but we have generally overspent on mediocre/low tier players to start here because of the lack of talent. I don't think we're in that spot this year outside of a veteran pass rusher that can just bring something, an OG (hopefully RG so we can move Cann to LG), and a CB (which wouldn't have been a need if we kept Prince).

I just don't know what your expecting. If you get below average QB play, it doesn't matter what you do in FA or the draft. You are going to consistently be among the worst teams in the NFL, which is where we've sat for several years. Blake gets back to 2015 form/gives us average play? We start to win some games and look like a competent organization again.

This FA we don't need to sign 8 guys and have 5 of them be starters. We need one of the top couple OG's, one of the top CB's (Prince would do just fine while adding a CB via draft), etc.

We aren't in the spot we were the last couple years with half the roster being open for new starters.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Tony Jefferson also isn't good. He's Cyp if Cyp had two great Corners and an elite FS surrounding him.


He improved quite a bit this past year in coverage. Muchhhh better than Cyprien in that regard. If this was the TJeff of two years ago I'd agree with you.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
iPwn wrote:
500 million dollars. I don't care what excuses you want to make, $500 mill should get you more than one good long term player and a Punter.


Yes, we should have had more success. But it wouldn't have been drastically more positive even if we did what a normal team does in FA.

Building your roster through FA like we have isn't getting us a long list of even decent starters unless you are grabbing the cream of the crop. A large list of those guys aren't.

Guys like Calais Campbell, Bouye, Zeitler, Leary, Warford, Dre Kirkpatrick, Tony Jefferson, etc? Yeah, those type of players you should expect to contribute in a positive way as starters.

Sergio Brown? Jeremy Parnell? Toby Gerhart? Dan Skuta? Red Bryant? etc. etc.?

Well, I mean, if you want to expect great things from that then go ahead I guess...we weren't going anywhere with the shape our roster was in. You spend and hope these guys pan out. If they don't, you cut them loose like we have and keep drafting and hoping to get enough talent where you don't have to get several starters in an offseason from the FA market.
My point is that if you're spending $500 million dollars on Free Agents, you should get return on that. A $4 million dollar per year player should play like a replacement level starter.

Each of the last three years, we've ended Free Agency with the same notion. The acquisitions get looked at and fans puff their chest over what we did. We see the big name(s) and talk about how they're going to be great. Malik, Thomas, etc. we see the next batch of up and down players and talk about how they're finally in the system that will take advantage of them; Prince, Gipson, Gerhart. We see the guys who are almost done and claim we can get another year or two out of them; Bryant, Clemons, Ivory, etc. we see the middling players and talk about how they're merely okay, but they're sooooo much better than we had before and will only help us take a step further. And so on. We talk about how we won Free Agency, and how all these pieces are upgrades and will finally help us take a step forward. And then the season comes along and we watch every single one of them (sans Malik) do nothing that was predicted of them.

This is our time of year. This is what we do.


Ok, but... this year. This year is our year.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Overall, coverage, run defense, pass rush grades.
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