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Who would you prefer to keep?
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Woz wrote:
If the reason Scot has not been involved over the past month is solely a power play by Bruce Allen, then kick Bruce's tail to the curb, get what you can get for Kirk, and give the guy who knows how to evaluate football talent the job without limitations.

However, I worry that it isn't just a power play. A guy of his caliber would not have been available to us if things were hunky-dory. Heck, he'd likely still be employed by Seattle or a GM of better organized franchise than us.

In the end, I'd go with McCloughan plus another QB because we have more things to fix on this team than just one position. I don't trust Bruce to know how to find players to fit the defense. Or offense. Or special teams.



His past could be used against him in a power move by Bruce Allen right now. We don't know why SM isn't here with the team. Until it's a actual fact his drinking is the reason he's not with us any longer, I'm calling this a power move by his boss Bruce Allen. Now its up to Danny to pick what's best for the franchise not just people who are his friends.

Even if SM is drinking, haven't these two season with him here been better than what we've seen over the last 10 years? We weren't looked at as a laughing stock or a joke team. A team was actually being built the right way and each year has been improving.
Ya this worries me too. I don't think Snyder is thinking about this anymore, pretty clear McCloughan is out and Allen is in.

Look at the results of this poll. That is how popular McCloughan is with our fanbase, because he represents hope, and a change from the nonsense this organization has done in the past. The best way to remove McCloughan if its a power play is to drag his reputation through the mud in the press.


Than that would just show the stupidity of the owner. Sydner has to know the truth do though. To just have these questions unanswered at this time is just ridiculous. He as the owner needs to step up and say something.


When has that ever stopped Danny?

Quote:
Look at how much Jerry has talked about Romo this offseason. Synder may be taking a step back when he really needs to step in. This isn't just a football decision, business as far as losing fans is at stack. You cant lose both Cousins and SM in the same offseasion and not have a good reason.


It shows what Snyder's opinion of the fanbase's intellect is.
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21 ALL THE WAY


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
21 ALL THE WAY wrote:
Woz wrote:
If the reason Scot has not been involved over the past month is solely a power play by Bruce Allen, then kick Bruce's tail to the curb, get what you can get for Kirk, and give the guy who knows how to evaluate football talent the job without limitations.

However, I worry that it isn't just a power play. A guy of his caliber would not have been available to us if things were hunky-dory. Heck, he'd likely still be employed by Seattle or a GM of better organized franchise than us.

In the end, I'd go with McCloughan plus another QB because we have more things to fix on this team than just one position. I don't trust Bruce to know how to find players to fit the defense. Or offense. Or special teams.



His past could be used against him in a power move by Bruce Allen right now. We don't know why SM isn't here with the team. Until it's a actual fact his drinking is the reason he's not with us any longer, I'm calling this a power move by his boss Bruce Allen. Now its up to Danny to pick what's best for the franchise not just people who are his friends.

Even if SM is drinking, haven't these two season with him here been better than what we've seen over the last 10 years? We weren't looked at as a laughing stock or a joke team. A team was actually being built the right way and each year has been improving.
Ya this worries me too. I don't think Snyder is thinking about this anymore, pretty clear McCloughan is out and Allen is in.

Look at the results of this poll. That is how popular McCloughan is with our fanbase, because he represents hope, and a change from the nonsense this organization has done in the past. The best way to remove McCloughan if its a power play is to drag his reputation through the mud in the press.


Than that would just show the stupidity of the owner. Sydner has to know the truth do though. To just have these questions unanswered at this time is just ridiculous. He as the owner needs to step up and say something.


When has that ever stopped Danny?

Quote:
Look at how much Jerry has talked about Romo this offseason. Synder may be taking a step back when he really needs to step in. This isn't just a football decision, business as far as losing fans is at stack. You cant lose both Cousins and SM in the same offseasion and not have a good reason.


It shows what Snyder's opinion of the fanbase's intellect is.


Guess Synder had me under he had grown and this team was actually headed in the right direction for a SB.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Who would you prefer to keep? Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
If the power struggle really is over the Kirk Cousins contract (I'm not sure it is), but hypothetically let's say you could either have Bruce Allen and his staff with Cousins on a long term deal, or McCloughan with Cousins gone (assume he's traded for draft picks). Which would you prefer to keep?
Bruce Allen, Jay and Cousins. Players play and Kirk has proven he can be a top 10 qb in the nfl. I think we need Kirk more than McCloughan. I love McCloughan but we didn't do too shabby in the 2014 offseason
- without a 1st round pick - when McCloughan wasn't on the Redskins staff.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
McCloughan and the picks. Meaning I care about the franchise's success 5-10-15 years down the road just as much as I do now. Scot was leading us down the path of sustained success over the long term. Allen will lead us down the path of mediocrity - Kirk or no Kirk.
I think we were hoping for that, but there is no guarantee. His first two offseasons led us to mediocrity with many of the starters or players who would be come starters that he inherited from Allen and Shanahan before him.

I think Scot was doing a good job, but he wasn't exactly hitting home runs. We were heading in the right direction since he came here, but that seemed to be more of something happened with Kirk taking over as our starting qb rather than McCloughan taking over our drafts and offseasons.

The 2014 offseason was pretty solid for Allen and Gruden. That offseason helped the skins become the team they were the last two years as much as McCloughan's arrival or more.

I think if Kirk is retained as our starting qb for the next decade and we can build a top 15 defense- which I believe can be done w/o McCloughan - that we will have a contending team soon and for the next decade. Let's not forget that Allen & Jay drafted Murphy and Breeland who have both developed into good players on our D.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murphy was on PEDs last season. Breeland severely regressed. Moses is the only player we can say we definitely want to re-sign. At least the 2015 draft has Crowder and Scherff.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
McCloughan and the picks. Meaning I care about the franchise's success 5-10-15 years down the road just as much as I do now. Scot was leading us down the path of sustained success over the long term. Allen will lead us down the path of mediocrity - Kirk or no Kirk.
I think we were hoping for that, but there is no guarantee. His first two offseasons led us to mediocrity with many of the starters or players who would be come starters that he inherited from Allen and Shanahan before him.

I think Scot was doing a good job, but he wasn't exactly hitting home runs. We were heading in the right direction since he came here, but that seemed to be more of something happened with Kirk taking over as our starting qb rather than McCloughan taking over our drafts and offseasons.

The 2014 offseason was pretty solid for Allen and Gruden. That offseason helped the skins become the team they were the last two years as much as McCloughan's arrival or more.

I think if Kirk is retained as our starting qb for the next decade and we can build a top 15 defense- which I believe can be done w/o McCloughan - that we will have a contending team soon and for the next decade. Let's not forget that Allen & Jay drafted Murphy and Breeland who have both developed into good players on our D.


1. Allen is said to have relied on McCloughan's scouting evaluations for that 2014 draft, so giving him all of the credit may be misplaced.

2. Read this article regarding the roster build out: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/03/08/redskins-gm-scot-mccloughan-has-no-role-in-current-free-agency-decision-making/

I would say that McCloughan's thoughts made more sense than what they did. Golston over Jenkins (I personally know Golston and I think that was a mistake; no, they get no credit for re-signing Jenkins due to Golston's injury as they could not have predicted that)? Grant over Ross? Keeping Lichtensteiger?

And lest you point to the Doctson decision like they do in the article, three further points:
A) Drafting Doctson was so the team could absorb losing both Jackson and Garcon like they are right now.
B) No single defensive player that was available to them in the 2016 would have mitigated the play of the defense.
C) The biggest mistake with Doctson wasn't drafting him, but taking him off the PUP list right before the season began.

Also, there is this:
Quote:
The handling of Cousins and his contract also represented an area of disagreement. McCloughan had told people around the league that if he had full control, the Redskins would have signed the quarterback to a multiyear contract in 2016, avoiding the use of two straight franchise tags with long-term resolution. That angered Allen, who in turn started blaming his general manager in league circles for all of the negative media leaks about Cousins. Allen publicly has taken an “all in” approach on the quarterback. But sources say he is still hesitant to give the quarterback a lucrative multiyear deal.


So, the position we find ourselves in is due to Bruce Allen, not Scot McCloughan.
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ripsean21


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
McCloughan and the picks. Meaning I care about the franchise's success 5-10-15 years down the road just as much as I do now. Scot was leading us down the path of sustained success over the long term. Allen will lead us down the path of mediocrity - Kirk or no Kirk.
I think we were hoping for that, but there is no guarantee. His first two offseasons led us to mediocrity with many of the starters or players who would be come starters that he inherited from Allen and Shanahan before him.

I think Scot was doing a good job, but he wasn't exactly hitting home runs. We were heading in the right direction since he came here, but that seemed to be more of something happened with Kirk taking over as our starting qb rather than McCloughan taking over our drafts and offseasons.

The 2014 offseason was pretty solid for Allen and Gruden. That offseason helped the skins become the team they were the last two years as much as McCloughan's arrival or more.

I think if Kirk is retained as our starting qb for the next decade and we can build a top 15 defense- which I believe can be done w/o McCloughan - that we will have a contending team soon and for the next decade. Let's not forget that Allen & Jay drafted Murphy and Breeland who have both developed into good players on our D.


1. Allen is said to have relied on McCloughan's scouting evaluations for that 2014 draft, so giving him all of the credit may be misplaced.

2. Read this article regarding the roster build out: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/03/08/redskins-gm-scot-mccloughan-has-no-role-in-current-free-agency-decision-making/

I would say that McCloughan's thoughts made more sense than what they did. Golston over Jenkins (I personally know Golston and I think that was a mistake; no, they get no credit for re-signing Jenkins due to Golston's injury as they could not have predicted that)? Grant over Ross? Keeping Lichtensteiger?

And lest you point to the Doctson decision like they do in the article, three further points:
A) Drafting Doctson was so the team could absorb losing both Jackson and Garcon like they are right now.
B) No single defensive player that was available to them in the 2016 would have mitigated the play of the defense.
C) The biggest mistake with Doctson wasn't drafting him, but taking him off the PUP list right before the season began.

Also, there is this:
Quote:
The handling of Cousins and his contract also represented an area of disagreement. McCloughan had told people around the league that if he had full control, the Redskins would have signed the quarterback to a multiyear contract in 2016, avoiding the use of two straight franchise tags with long-term resolution. That angered Allen, who in turn started blaming his general manager in league circles for all of the negative media leaks about Cousins. Allen publicly has taken an “all in” approach on the quarterback. But sources say he is still hesitant to give the quarterback a lucrative multiyear deal.


So, the position we find ourselves in is due to Bruce Allen, not Scot McCloughan.


It's a shame!!! It really is a shame just how quick we can screw up!!! And tell me the McClain signing isn't a Bruce thing!!! All he does is sign crappy Cowboys DL!! We're not cursed we're just ran by a bunch of robots who will never understand people and they just got rid of the first person who finally got it!!!! It's a joke and I am sorry we as fans even care. Other teams are getting better or worse and the Redskins are during FA looking to staff and going through something even the Jacksonville's and Cleveland's of the world can laugh joke and point at!! I love it!!!!

I need a invite to Docs bar tonight!!!
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, let me point out that it looks like my poll is inaccurate, that McCloughan apparently wanted to keep Cousins. Should it should be Cousins and McCloughan vs. Allen and new QB plus picks.

Lets summarize Bruce Allen's tenure here:

- orchestrated trade where we sent three 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick for a QB not on the roster 5 years later.

- hired a replacement as head of personnel as he's not really a football guy and wanted to concentrate on the business side.

- Low ball offers Cousins early 2016, then apparently vetoes Cousins 3-year $19 apy contract offer, despite the football guy he hired to take his job saying he wanted to do said deal.

- Refuses to offer Cousins a reasonable contract extension in early 2017.

- Throws tantrum, bans GM from speaking to media, refuses to support him in the media while wild speculation is ruining McCloughan's reputation.

- After not offering Cousins a reasonable contract offer, doesn't pull trigger on Cousins trade. He waits until Cousins has to publicly say he wants out of Washington, effectively destroying his trade value.

- Essentially has lined us up to lose our starting QB in free agency of 2018 with no compensation.


So we are sticking with this guy why? How is he not the one being fired?
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PSID412


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
First of all, let me point out that it looks like my poll is inaccurate, that McCloughan apparently wanted to keep Cousins. Should it should be Cousins and McCloughan vs. Allen and new QB plus picks.

Lets summarize Bruce Allen's tenure here:

- orchestrated trade where we sent three 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick for a QB not on the roster 5 years later.

- hired a replacement as head of personnel as he's not really a football guy and wanted to concentrate on the business side.

- Low ball offers Cousins early 2016, then apparently vetoes Cousins 3-year $19 apy contract offer, despite the football guy he hired to take his job saying he wanted to do said deal.

- Refuses to offer Cousins a reasonable contract extension in early 2017.

- Throws tantrum, bans GM from speaking to media, refuses to support him in the media while wild speculation is ruining McCloughan's reputation.

- After not offering Cousins a reasonable contract offer, doesn't pull trigger on Cousins trade. He waits until Cousins has to publicly say he wants out of Washington, effectively destroying his trade value.

- Essentially has lined us up to lose our starting QB in free agency of 2018 with no compensation.


So we are sticking with this guy why? How is he not the one being fired?


Probably more likely to kiss up to Dan and act like he is a genius while Scot more then likely pointed the flaws in our owner thinking.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
So we are sticking with this guy why? How is he not the one being fired?


Because McCloughan had the temerity to the the owner he was wrong instead of being a "Yes, that's brilliant!" company man?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I read what Sally and Mikey put together at 5 am yesterday morning and listeners to people talk about it all day on the radio.

Just kind of wondering who their source is, is it McCloughan? If it is then I have to question the accuracy because that's only one side of the story.

I would still take Allen, Jay and Kirk. I like what we've done this offseason in free agency so far and will love it even more if we sign Pryor and find a way to sign Poe or Hankins to be our starting NT.

I still don't love what we did in the 2015 & 16 offseasons when presumably McCloughan had a lot of roster control.

I realize in 2014 Allen and Scot Campbell used information from McCloughan's scouting services but Allen still had final say and the players we signed and drafted were good for us when they were here and the draft picks we drafted in 2014 were good.

Yes, Murphy got busted for ped's and Breeland took a bit of a step back thisnoast yeer mostly becsuse he got burned when he went against a few top 5 receivers but other than that, no one else burned him all year. When you put that in perspective and break down the games he struggled, your realize the games he struggled the most were against Antonio Brown and Dez Bryant in week 1 and 2 and that's really it.

We got two starting OL in the 2014 draft and arguably one of the best RTs in the NFL.

And I know people don't like to hear that Grant can still be a decent receiver for us, but I believe he can be. I've said it several times over the past few years that his stats from his 5 games started in 2015 prorated out over 16 games are 74 recs, 865 yards and 6 TDs.

He isn't as physical and as explosive a player as Garçon but if he was our starter I do believe that he could replace Garçon's production and I believe if Doctson is healthy he will exceed Garcon's production.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Yeah, I what Sally and Mikey put together at 5 am yesterday morning. Just kind of wondering who their source is, is it McCloughan? If it is then I have to question the accuracy because that's only one side of the story.

I would still take Allen, Jay and Kirk. I like what we've done this offseason in free agency so far and will love it even more if we sign Pryor and find a way to sign Poe or Hankins to be our starting NT.

I still don't love what we did in the 2015 & 16 offseasons when presumably McCloughan had a lot of roster control.

I realize in 2014 Allen and Scot Campbell used information from McCloughan's scouting services but Allen still had final say and the players we signed and drafted were good for us when they were here and the draft picks we drafted in 2014 were good.

Yes, Murphy got busted for ped's and Breeland took a bit of a step back thisnoast yeer mostly becsuse he got burned when he went against a few top 5 receivers but other than that, no one else burned him all year. When you put that in perspective and break down the games he struggled, your realize the games he struggled the most were against Antonio Brown and Dez Bryant in week 1 and 2 and that's really it.

We got two starting OL in the 2014 draft and arguably one of the best RTs in the NFL.

And I know people don't like to hear that Grant can still be a decent receiver for us, but I believe he can be. I've said it several times over the past few years that his stats from his 5 games started in 2015 prorated out over 16 games are 74 recs, 865 yards and 6 TDs.

He isn't as physical and as explosive a player as Garçon but if he was our starter I do believe that he could replace Garçon's production and I believe if Doctson is healthy he will exceed Garcon's production.
Thats because you hate McCloughan.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Yeah, I what Sally and Mikey put together at 5 am yesterday morning. Just kind of wondering who their source is, is it McCloughan? If it is then I have to question the accuracy because that's only one side of the story.

I would still take Allen, Jay and Kirk. I like what we've done this offseason in free agency so far and will love it even more if we sign Pryor and find a way to sign Poe or Hankins to be our starting NT.

I still don't love what we did in the 2015 & 16 offseasons when presumably McCloughan had a lot of roster control.

I realize in 2014 Allen and Scot Campbell used information from McCloughan's scouting services but Allen still had final say and the players we signed and drafted were good for us when they were here and the draft picks we drafted in 2014 were good.

Yes, Murphy got busted for ped's and Breeland took a bit of a step back thisnoast yeer mostly becsuse he got burned when he went against a few top 5 receivers but other than that, no one else burned him all year. When you put that in perspective and break down the games he struggled, your realize the games he struggled the most were against Antonio Brown and Dez Bryant in week 1 and 2 and that's really it.

We got two starting OL in the 2014 draft and arguably one of the best RTs in the NFL.

And I know people don't like to hear that Grant can still be a decent receiver for us, but I believe he can be. I've said it several times over the past few years that his stats from his 5 games started in 2015 prorated out over 16 games are 74 recs, 865 yards and 6 TDs.

He isn't as physical and as explosive a player as Garçon but if he was our starter I do believe that he could replace Garçon's production and I believe if Doctson is healthy he will exceed Garcon's production.
Thats because you hate McCloughan.
Yeah, you can stop that BS anytime. I've more than explained myself that I don't hate McCloughan. I think McCloughan made some mistakes with who he decided to draft and sign as free agents over the past two years though. It's a shame because we passed on some other players that really could have had some big impacts for this team right away and maybe we win a playoff game because of them.

So I don't hate McCloughan, I just don't know why everyone should always believe unnamed sources all the time and if it is McCloughan as the source I don't know how anyone can't honestly say that the article is biased and just his account of what happened.

An honest person would admit that. If you want to write a good article or make a sound decision that isn't just a hit piece on someone, you talk to both parties and then off of those interviews you write what they told you.
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TheGreeK1973


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know its open season on Bruce and hell I can't stand the guy but seriously you guys think its freaking jealousy that got Scottie fired? So what happen in SF? What happened in Seattle? Jealousy also? The dude is a drunk, he is on record saying yea I drink but it doesn't effect my work. Seriously would you hire or keep someone like that in your business?

There have been reports he has showed up drunk plenty of times in the locker room for example, you seriously think its ok for the GM to show up drunk among players? What kind of example does he set? Again if the Redskins were the first team to fire this guy because of an alleged drinking problem I can understand the skepticism, our front office is a mess to begin with. But there is major history here with this guy.

Sorry keep him and whoever he thinks should be the QB, I will take Bruce and Cousins.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreeK1973 wrote:
I know its open season on Bruce and hell I can't stand the guy but seriously you guys think its freaking jealousy that got Scottie fired?


Based on how I perceive Bruce and Dan, and ALL of the reports out there from reporters putting their work on the line, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that this isn't at least SOME part of it. Yes. 100%.
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