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who helped/hurt themselves the most at the combine?
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19458
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
Forge wrote:
I think that Tim Williams, Charles Harris and Takk McKinley all really hurt themselves, specifically with those 3 cones if you're looking at them as 3-4 olb edge rushers. I can't remember a 3-4 olb who succeeded with 3-cones that bad. I know that anything is possible, but when history is that much against you, it's a bad sign. And yes, I hate to boil everything down on those guys to a single number, but it's not like other highly touted guys haven't had 3 cones that bad - they've also flopped. So it's not an instance where just bad prospects are flopping in that drill. I don't know that I would draft them in the first couple of rounds now as a 3-4 olb. Different position, maybe?


What typically is the cutoff for success, generally, on certain positions with 3 cone time?


It's hard to find a ton of guys who had success at greater than 7.25 and stayed as a 3-4 olb, but there are a few, and usually there's something else where they had a ton of success - IE, Nick Perry had slow cone times (7.25 I think), very good jumps if I remember right but even those guys are few and far between. Most of time, the guys with 3-cones that high have their success at DE or in the case of someone like Lavonte David, 4-3 olb.

And honestly, can't think of anyone who had success there at 7.4. There may be someone out there, and if there is and someone knows one, let me know, but otherwise it's a major red flag if you think you are going to play them as a rush linebacker in a 3-4.
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reamer


Joined: 15 Feb 2010
Posts: 488
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
Forge wrote:
I think that Tim Williams, Charles Harris and Takk McKinley all really hurt themselves, specifically with those 3 cones if you're looking at them as 3-4 olb edge rushers. I can't remember a 3-4 olb who succeeded with 3-cones that bad. I know that anything is possible, but when history is that much against you, it's a bad sign. And yes, I hate to boil everything down on those guys to a single number, but it's not like other highly touted guys haven't had 3 cones that bad - they've also flopped. So it's not an instance where just bad prospects are flopping in that drill. I don't know that I would draft them in the first couple of rounds now as a 3-4 olb. Different position, maybe?


What typically is the cutoff for success, generally, on certain positions with 3 cone time?


It's hard to find a ton of guys who had success at greater than 7.25 and stayed as a 3-4 olb, but there are a few, and usually there's something else where they had a ton of success - IE, Nick Perry had slow cone times (7.25 I think), very good jumps if I remember right but even those guys are few and far between. Most of time, the guys with 3-cones that high have their success at DE or in the case of someone like Lavonte David, 4-3 olb.

And honestly, can't think of anyone who had success there at 7.4. There may be someone out there, and if there is and someone knows one, let me know, but otherwise it's a major red flag if you think you are going to play them as a rush linebacker in a 3-4.


What does Shane Ray play? He ran a 7.60.
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chiefs82


Joined: 19 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deshaun Watson and Haason Reddick both helped their stocks.

Rueben Foster hurt his stock as much as he possibly could.
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Counselor


Joined: 31 Jan 2017
Posts: 2091
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reamer wrote:
Forge wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
Forge wrote:
I think that Tim Williams, Charles Harris and Takk McKinley all really hurt themselves, specifically with those 3 cones if you're looking at them as 3-4 olb edge rushers. I can't remember a 3-4 olb who succeeded with 3-cones that bad. I know that anything is possible, but when history is that much against you, it's a bad sign. And yes, I hate to boil everything down on those guys to a single number, but it's not like other highly touted guys haven't had 3 cones that bad - they've also flopped. So it's not an instance where just bad prospects are flopping in that drill. I don't know that I would draft them in the first couple of rounds now as a 3-4 olb. Different position, maybe?


What typically is the cutoff for success, generally, on certain positions with 3 cone time?


It's hard to find a ton of guys who had success at greater than 7.25 and stayed as a 3-4 olb, but there are a few, and usually there's something else where they had a ton of success - IE, Nick Perry had slow cone times (7.25 I think), very good jumps if I remember right but even those guys are few and far between. Most of time, the guys with 3-cones that high have their success at DE or in the case of someone like Lavonte David, 4-3 olb.

And honestly, can't think of anyone who had success there at 7.4. There may be someone out there, and if there is and someone knows one, let me know, but otherwise it's a major red flag if you think you are going to play them as a rush linebacker in a 3-4.


What does Shane Ray play? He ran a 7.60.


Even worse he ran a 7.71. But he also had a hurt foot.
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In reference to concern about Joshua Dobbs' Knees

48 1/2ers wrote:
Ostriches have inverted knees and they're pretty athletic...


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Lions017


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much do you think that Dalvin Cook hurt himself? Does anyone think that he played himself out of the first round or out of the conversation for being the first or second RB off of the board?
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Counselor


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lions017 wrote:
How much do you think that Dalvin Cook hurt himself? Does anyone think that he played himself out of the first round or out of the conversation for being the first or second RB off of the board?


He's the complete opposite of someone like Jordan Willis (doesn't play as fast as he tested on tape). I don't think you can ignore his production.
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In reference to concern about Joshua Dobbs' Knees

48 1/2ers wrote:
Ostriches have inverted knees and they're pretty athletic...


GIF of Ostrich Running Here...

The Wheat Grass Shooting Hippies made me get rid of it...
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jrry32


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counselor wrote:
Lions017 wrote:
How much do you think that Dalvin Cook hurt himself? Does anyone think that he played himself out of the first round or out of the conversation for being the first or second RB off of the board?


He's the complete opposite of someone like Jordan Willis (doesn't play as fast as he tested on tape). I don't think you can ignore his production.


Jordan Willis is fast and explosive on tape.
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Counselor


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Counselor wrote:
Lions017 wrote:
How much do you think that Dalvin Cook hurt himself? Does anyone think that he played himself out of the first round or out of the conversation for being the first or second RB off of the board?


He's the complete opposite of someone like Jordan Willis (doesn't play as fast as he tested on tape). I don't think you can ignore his production.


Jordan Willis is fast and explosive on tape.


Not as much as his numbers suggest imo. He is a good football player though.
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In reference to concern about Joshua Dobbs' Knees

48 1/2ers wrote:
Ostriches have inverted knees and they're pretty athletic...


GIF of Ostrich Running Here...

The Wheat Grass Shooting Hippies made me get rid of it...
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Techbert


Joined: 24 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it was way way back on Thursday/Friday, but don't forget OL Forrest Lamp, who miraculously grew long enough arms to be viable, and tested/drilled well.
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nickfor3


Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Posts: 71
PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BleedTheClock wrote:
nickfor3 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
I did a top 8, not a top 5, because I kept thinking of others who really well (and I could probably list a few more)

Helped:

1. Christian McCaffrey-RB
Might have had the best combine of any player

2. Obi Melifonwu-SS
He was considered a mid-late 2nd rounder before the combine, where he might be a late first rounder after it.

3. Tyus Bowser-OLB
Top performer in nearly every category.... Gonna have a lot of people going back to his film, as he was mid round prospect.

4. Evan Engram-TE
I knew he was good, but I think he just cemented himself as a first rounder.

5. Zay Jones-WR
Continued to build momentum off an amazing Senior Bowl with a signifcantly better than expected combine.

6. Fabian Moreau-CB
mid-late round guy who tested great for his projected position... Will get people going back and rewatching him.

7. Solomon Thomas-DE (maybe OLB)
Cemented himself as the top DL imo.

8. Micheal Roberts-TE
For a very late round prospect, he measures up pretty favorably in this TE class.

Hurt:

1. Rasul Douglas-CB
Slower than expected.

2. Teez Tabor-CB
Slower than expected

3. Tanoh Kpassagnon-DE
I probably had unrealistically high expectations.

4. Jonathan Allen-DE
The medical check is what did the most damage

5. Dalvin Cook-RB
He probably lost the most of any prospect from the combine tests.

6. David Njoku-TE
Like Tanoh, I probably had unreasonably high expectations.

7. Rueben Foster-MLB
I mean.... I think the situation is likely being wildly overblown.... but if a player isn't smart enough to just sit down and shut up for a single weekend..... where millions of dollars is on the line...

8. Dede Westbrook-WR
Refuses to do combine drills, is apparently a POS during interviews.... Congrats moron, you just cost yourself an outrageous amount of money.


Darren Carrington is better than every single player you posted about. Darren. Carrington. Darren Carrington.


We get it dude.


lmao facts
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Rich7sena


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how Christian McCaffrey helped himself. We all knew who he was coming in, he just confirmed it.
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goldfishwars


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:
I don't see how Christian McCaffrey helped himself. We all knew who he was coming in, he just confirmed it.


Kind of, although I think he helped himself by not hurting himself. He had more to lose than gain.
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Calvert28


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
Counselor wrote:
Lions017 wrote:
How much do you think that Dalvin Cook hurt himself? Does anyone think that he played himself out of the first round or out of the conversation for being the first or second RB off of the board?


He's the complete opposite of someone like Jordan Willis (doesn't play as fast as he tested on tape). I don't think you can ignore his production.


Jordan Willis is fast and explosive on tape.


On what tape? Where? Is someone hiding it from the world cause I haven't seen it. He has good burst. But I wouldn't say explosive.

The person I'd say hurt his stock the most is a three way tie between Harris, Cook and Foster.

Cook for reasons already listed.

Foster definitely with what he weighed in out. People were expecting a guy in the 240s. And he weighs in 10 pounds lighter? And he didn't run to showcase some Ryan Shazier type speed to put minds at ease. And to top that off he left because of a argument with a hospital worker.

Harris as well. For a guy that everyone says great athletic ability. That was a pitiful showing. Almost pedestrian numbers you would expect for a prospect going in the 6th or 7th round. Further cementing my hatred for mocks having my Boyz taking him at 28.


Another person that could drop in a big way although I hope not is Allen. When I first heard about the shoulder issue, the first person that came to mind was Rod Wright from Texas. Who also had a shoulder issue and fell all the way to the 7th after being considered by many a 1st rounder. Doubt it happens like it did with Wright. But it could still be serious to drop him like Star.
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GeneralDissaray wrote:
mozwanted wrote:
I don't agree with the pick.Bad teams pick rb's with a top 5 pick.
Moz, bad teams pick in the top 5.That's the way the draft works.
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Calvert28


Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldfishwars wrote:
Rich7sena wrote:
I don't see how Christian McCaffrey helped himself. We all knew who he was coming in, he just confirmed it.


Kind of, although I think he helped himself by not hurting himself. He had more to lose than gain.


He did help himself with the combine. With the stigma. He had to prove he is a athlete. He's not going to be given the benefit of the doubt.
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GeneralDissaray wrote:
mozwanted wrote:
I don't agree with the pick.Bad teams pick rb's with a top 5 pick.
Moz, bad teams pick in the top 5.That's the way the draft works.
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Suffering_Bills


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obi WON. Smile
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