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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
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Location: Elkhorn, WI
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject: Sellout for Watson Reply with quote

I think I would sellout to move up for Deshaun Watson. The guy has all the tools and is a bonafide winner. I am tired of drafting junk QBs hoping we can mold them. Take the best and start him from day 1.
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dsorc


Joined: 16 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not a big Watson fan. Wins should not be a QB stat particularly when is Clemson teams had plenty of talent. (Let us not forget the classic he just wins QB: Tebow.) To me, Watson has accuracy issues that come and go which would have to be fixed. Watson also rarely had to look beyond his first option and seems to lack field vision. He does have good traits in his arm strength, mobility, and willingness to work within the pocket but he is not a top-end QB prospect.

The QB I like, and who is likely similarly rated is Mahomes. His mechanics are horrible and he tries to do too much with his gunslinger mentality. But, he did fine maneuvering behind a bad OL, constantly kept his eyes down-field and showed the ability to go through progressions even when scrambling.

I think both Watson and Mahomes will be available for us in the 1st round. Will be interesting to see who gets picked.
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsorc wrote:
I am not a big Watson fan. Wins should not be a QB stat particularly when is Clemson teams had plenty of talent. (Let us not forget the classic he just wins QB: Tebow.) To me, Watson has accuracy issues that come and go which would have to be fixed. Watson also rarely had to look beyond his first option and seems to lack field vision. He does have good traits in his arm strength, mobility, and willingness to work within the pocket but he is not a top-end QB prospect.

The QB I like, and who is likely similarly rated is Mahomes. His mechanics are horrible and he tries to do too much with his gunslinger mentality. But, he did fine maneuvering behind a bad OL, constantly kept his eyes down-field and showed the ability to go through progressions even when scrambling.

I think both Watson and Mahomes will be available for us in the 1st round. Will be interesting to see who gets picked.


You knock Watson for accuracy issues, but then say you want Mahomes who has notable accuracy issues and terrible footwork. I like parts of Mahomes, but the more I think about it, the less I want him. I am tired of having projects at QB.

Watson excels in the short game and getting rid of the ball quickly, both attributes that are high priorities with BoBs "system". Watson will be a top 10 pick.
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Texansfan713


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said a few months ago. Im not a huge Watson fan. Sure he 'wins" but once again guys like Manziel, Case Keenum, Matt Leinart and Tim Tebow win as well. That don't mean anything in the NFL.

As dsorc mentioned Mahomes, I like him way more than Watson. Sure we can knack the offense Mahomes played in but unlike Watson, Mahomes has tools you can work with. Mahomes has the way bigger arm and better deep ball than Watson.

Quote:

You knock Watson for accuracy issues, but then say you want Mahomes who has notable accuracy issues and terrible footwork. I like parts of Mahomes, but the more I think about it, the less I want him. I am tired of having projects at QB.

Watson excels in the short game and getting rid of the ball quickly, both attributes that are high priorities with BoBs "system". Watson will be a top 10 pick.


All these QB's in the draft are projects. I don't see any of the QBs in this class who can come in and make an impact year 1. That's why im hoping we get Romo since we are in win now mode, but if we don't then im taking my chances on Mahomes.
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mse326


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have VERY different views on Watson.

The only QB's in this class that have a chance to be above average starting QBs are Kizer, Webb, and Kelly and all of them will take at least 2 years on the bench to learn first.

This isn't the draft to improve our QB situation. We are better off rolling with Savage.
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Texansfan713


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
We have VERY different views on Watson.

The only QB's in this class that have a chance to be above average starting QBs are Kizer, Webb, and Kelly and all of them will take at least 2 years on the bench to learn first.

This isn't the draft to improve our QB situation. We are better off rolling with Savage.


Come again?
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PAtexansFAN99


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, every first/second year player is a "project". Fans expect consistent improvement even (honestly especially) if they win rookie of the year. Playing Alabama in the championship is one thing, playing the pats in the AFC championship is another. Nobody is ready day 1, therefore they're all projects.

That being said, I would be 100% aboard with this. I think it'd be exactly what we need. EVEN IF Brock or Savage beat him out for week 1, they'll still have to hold him off throughout 16 weeks of the regular season.. and if they can do that, Deshaun Watson becomes expendable and we can trade him for way too much. And also, obviously if Watson took the field with our bulls I feel as though he would run [inappropriate/removed]. Best touch passer in the draft in my opinion. That bucket drop could do wonders for fuller. Clemson connection w Hop. Dynamic, decisive runner. Sky's the limit, I vote aye
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mse326


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texansfan713 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
We have VERY different views on Watson.

The only QB's in this class that have a chance to be above average starting QBs are Kizer, Webb, and Kelly and all of them will take at least 2 years on the bench to learn first.

This isn't the draft to improve our QB situation. We are better off rolling with Savage.


Come again?


What is confusing you? They are the only 3 that I think have the ability. I'm not saying they will. I think this QB class is horrible.

My preference would be to sign Mike Glennon in FA. I really liked what I saw from him as a rookie and felt Tampa didn't really give him a shot after that.
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Texansfan713


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
Texansfan713 wrote:
mse326 wrote:
We have VERY different views on Watson.

The only QB's in this class that have a chance to be above average starting QBs are Kizer, Webb, and Kelly and all of them will take at least 2 years on the bench to learn first.

This isn't the draft to improve our QB situation. We are better off rolling with Savage.


Come again?


What is confusing you? They are the only 3 that I think have the ability. I'm not saying they will. I think this QB class is horrible.

My preference would be to sign Mike Glennon in FA. I really liked what I saw from him as a rookie and felt Tampa didn't really give him a shot after that.


To each its own. Not a fan of either one of them. Webb reminds me of Brock and Kelly isn't that good aside from having a pretty good arm. I agree that this draft QB class is weak but if im taking a QB im gambling on guys with upside. Those guys are Kizer, and Mahomes.

Eh on Glennon.If we don't get Romo might as well make Savage the starter all season then get a QB in the 2018 draft which is supposedly one of the strongest QB class in a while.
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Texansfan713


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
In my opinion, every first/second year player is a "project". Fans expect consistent improvement even (honestly especially) if they win rookie of the year. Playing Alabama in the championship is one thing, playing the pats in the AFC championship is another. Nobody is ready day 1, therefore they're all projects.

That being said, I would be 100% aboard with this. I think it'd be exactly what we need. EVEN IF Brock or Savage beat him out for week 1, they'll still have to hold him off throughout 16 weeks of the regular season.. and if they can do that, Deshaun Watson becomes expendable and we can trade him for way too much. And also, obviously if Watson took the field with our bulls I feel as though he would run [inappropriate/removed]. Best touch passer in the draft in my opinion. That bucket drop could do wonders for fuller. Clemson connection w Hop. Dynamic, decisive runner. Sky's the limit, I vote aye


Im sorry, but there is no way im selling the farm to move up and take Watson. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a QB drop in the draft sorta like how Bridgewater and Carr fell. There isn't a clear consensus in this draft as to who the best QB is so no need to trade tons of picks to move up and get one.
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PAtexansFAN99


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texansfan713 wrote:
PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
In my opinion, every first/second year player is a "project". Fans expect consistent improvement even (honestly especially) if they win rookie of the year. Playing Alabama in the championship is one thing, playing the pats in the AFC championship is another. Nobody is ready day 1, therefore they're all projects.

That being said, I would be 100% aboard with this. I think it'd be exactly what we need. EVEN IF Brock or Savage beat him out for week 1, they'll still have to hold him off throughout 16 weeks of the regular season.. and if they can do that, Deshaun Watson becomes expendable and we can trade him for way too much. And also, obviously if Watson took the field with our bulls I feel as though he would run [inappropriate/removed]. Best touch passer in the draft in my opinion. That bucket drop could do wonders for fuller. Clemson connection w Hop. Dynamic, decisive runner. Sky's the limit, I vote aye


Im sorry, but there is no way im selling the farm to move up and take Watson. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a QB drop in the draft sorta like how Bridgewater and Carr fell. There isn't a clear consensus in this draft as to who the best QB is so no need to trade tons of picks to move up and get one.


I'm not saying go crazy and throw as many first round picks as it'll take.. I was thinking more along the lines of the Joe flacco trade where we moved down for an extra 3 and a 6, like if he falls out of the top ten. More than likely though, i think our first round pick will be buoyes or Newton's replacement
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Longhorns90


Joined: 28 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'm gonna gamble on anybody, it'd probably be Kizer. That said, I'll take Watson over Mahomes any day of the week, any week of the year.

It is definitely a weaker class, I'll give it that, but I hate to say "we don't really have a choice", but we're going absolutely nowhere with the quarterback situation as is, and we don't have the luxury of just throwing years away to try and get better options when everything else is so close to being in place.
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Texansfan713


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
Texansfan713 wrote:
PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
In my opinion, every first/second year player is a "project". Fans expect consistent improvement even (honestly especially) if they win rookie of the year. Playing Alabama in the championship is one thing, playing the pats in the AFC championship is another. Nobody is ready day 1, therefore they're all projects.

That being said, I would be 100% aboard with this. I think it'd be exactly what we need. EVEN IF Brock or Savage beat him out for week 1, they'll still have to hold him off throughout 16 weeks of the regular season.. and if they can do that, Deshaun Watson becomes expendable and we can trade him for way too much. And also, obviously if Watson took the field with our bulls I feel as though he would run [inappropriate/removed]. Best touch passer in the draft in my opinion. That bucket drop could do wonders for fuller. Clemson connection w Hop. Dynamic, decisive runner. Sky's the limit, I vote aye


Im sorry, but there is no way im selling the farm to move up and take Watson. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a QB drop in the draft sorta like how Bridgewater and Carr fell. There isn't a clear consensus in this draft as to who the best QB is so no need to trade tons of picks to move up and get one.


I'm not saying go crazy and throw as many first round picks as it'll take.. I was thinking more along the lines of the Joe flacco trade where we moved down for an extra 3 and a 6, like if he falls out of the top ten. More than likely though, i think our first round pick will be buoyes or Newton's replacement


I wouldn't trade any picks unless we moving back to acquire more. You and I both know this team has several holes to fill. We can blame Rick Smith for that later. I don't see how we should waste a first round pick on Bouye's replacement when Bouye would still be the 4th CB on the depth chart with everyone healthy? Plus this draft is loaded at CB which is why Im kinda hoping we let Bouye go in free agency. We can draft a cheaper option in the draft AND get a comp 3rd rounder in the process.
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PAtexansFAN99


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texansfan713 wrote:
PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
Texansfan713 wrote:
PAtexansFAN99 wrote:
In my opinion, every first/second year player is a "project". Fans expect consistent improvement even (honestly especially) if they win rookie of the year. Playing Alabama in the championship is one thing, playing the pats in the AFC championship is another. Nobody is ready day 1, therefore they're all projects.

That being said, I would be 100% aboard with this. I think it'd be exactly what we need. EVEN IF Brock or Savage beat him out for week 1, they'll still have to hold him off throughout 16 weeks of the regular season.. and if they can do that, Deshaun Watson becomes expendable and we can trade him for way too much. And also, obviously if Watson took the field with our bulls I feel as though he would run [inappropriate/removed]. Best touch passer in the draft in my opinion. That bucket drop could do wonders for fuller. Clemson connection w Hop. Dynamic, decisive runner. Sky's the limit, I vote aye


Im sorry, but there is no way im selling the farm to move up and take Watson. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a QB drop in the draft sorta like how Bridgewater and Carr fell. There isn't a clear consensus in this draft as to who the best QB is so no need to trade tons of picks to move up and get one.


I'm not saying go crazy and throw as many first round picks as it'll take.. I was thinking more along the lines of the Joe flacco trade where we moved down for an extra 3 and a 6, like if he falls out of the top ten. More than likely though, i think our first round pick will be buoyes or Newton's replacement


I wouldn't trade any picks unless we moving back to acquire more. You and I both know this team has several holes to fill. We can blame Rick Smith for that later. I don't see how we should waste a first round pick on Bouye's replacement when Bouye would still be the 4th CB on the depth chart with everyone healthy? Plus this draft is loaded at CB which is why Im kinda hoping we let Bouye go in free agency. We can draft a cheaper option in the draft AND get a comp 3rd rounder in the process.


First off, Bouye would be our best or second best CB behind only possibly Kevin Johnson. Secondly, I dunno what you're talking about.. the roster's fuggn stacked. Couple holes in the OL, probably do a decent patch job in FA, but I can't imagine being in better position to take a risk like this. What holes? We're STACKED almost everywhere.. if we trade down for more picks, in all likelihood we'll just wind up coaching those guys up for their next teams bc it's going to be a tall order to make this team as a rookie. Rick Smith gets no love I don't get it. Our college scouting department's gotta be one of the best in the league. RARELY do our late round picks fizzle out of the league quickly..

Zac Diles
Brice McCain
Derek Newton
Alfred Blue
Andre Hal
Jay Prosch
Owen Daniels
Jacoby Jones
Glover Quin
And it looks like DJ Reader, Christian Covington, Tom Savage may have been good picks as well..

You can say what you want about these guys, but they each had very successful careers relative to where they were drafted.. but even MORE importantly imo is the fact that we are dominant in undrafted free agency..

AJ Bouye
Arian Foster
Greg Mancz
Joel Heath
Akeem Hunt
Case Keenum are the few that come to mind rn.. not to mention the fact that he almost (save for Okoye) never misses in the first round. Teams miss with their first pick every year.

Smitty's not perfect.. but no one is and he does a pretty damn good job I feel like. I think the finger points ought to be redirected towards OB whose offense seems impossible to win with.

Back to the original point tho, if we traded say, a 1, 2, and 4 to move up for Watson I'm fairly certain we wouldn't miss those picks very much considering we've got a yungry talented core in place already and we do a decent job at finding treasure in the leftovers. Be honest.. if the Texans moved up for Watson, you'd love it just like everybody else!
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Texansfan713


Joined: 24 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have needs at:

QB
TE
LG
RG
RT
DE/OLB (whichever position Clowney doesnt play next season)
ILB
S (FS for sure and both safety positions if Demps leave via free agency)

so no we aren't "stacked at every position". So yes im blaming rick smith at the lack of producing NFL talent in the middle rounds, the rounds where you build the depth on your team.

As for Bouye, Assuming Joseph isn't cut he is locked in at one starting cb spot. Kareem is locked in at the other CB spot. Kevin Johnson was playing ahead of Bouye when he was healthy. I like Bouye as a player but teams will be overpaying for him to be their number 1 CB. I wouldn't be pissed if we let him go because I like the depth we have at the position.

Quote:
Back to the original point tho, if we traded say, a 1, 2, and 4 to move up for Watson I'm fairly certain we wouldn't miss those picks very much considering we've got a yungry talented core in place already and we do a decent job at finding treasure in the leftovers. Be honest.. if the Texans moved up for Watson, you'd love it just like everybody else!


Not really. Im desperate for a QB but im picky as to who I think we should target at QB. I made it clear the only QB im interested in is Romo assuming the Cowboys cut him. Texans wont get Cousins, Cutler isn't good, and no way in hell im paying for Mike Glennon after the Osweiler debacle. Im pretty certain a QB will fall to use in the draft since this class is weak at QB. If im taking a risk im going after Mahomes.
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