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College Football Prospects and Mock Draft Discussion v.5
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 58044
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poorbytehshore wrote:
His completion percentage was highly inflated. So many bubble screens and swings.


Could you explain to me why you used to like Manziel so much? He did the same damn stuff, but worse. Laughing
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wukusimw


Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Posts: 686
Location: Vermilion
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see Trubisky a lot like Gareon. A capable #1 who checks every box but doesn't seem to have that exceptional trait that will make him stand out from the rest.

IMO Trubisky could be a top 20 QB that they said last year was what they were searching for. However, I don't think he has that one trait that would make him a top 10 QB. Maybe his combination of everything would be his x factor and he eventually turns into a Rodgers/Carr type.

I think he is eerily similar to those two but they also went later in the 1st/early 2nd. Make no mistake though they would go #1 overall in hindsight.

What I hope for is great D and run game to minimize impact of our QB. However all this FO has stated publicly is that QB is more important than any other position.

With locking up the OL and the heat on in year 2 this may be the time to get the QB. If he sits a year you still have year 3. Take a guy next year and you may not have your job year 4 if the guy sits or stinks.
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 7501
Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bonanza23 wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
bruceb wrote:
I am going to puke -- which I have not done in 30+ years -- if I see another mock that includes us taking a QB at 12


My mock:

#1 - Garrett
#12 - some quarterback


Rolling Eyes


What I think you meant to post was...


Yup, but I do not know how to insert gifs into threads. Embarassed


You do it the same way you post a pic from another website Wink


Don't know how to do that, either.
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roger murdock


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 7821
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
His completion percentage was highly inflated. So many bubble screens and swings.


Could you explain to me why you used to like Manziel so much? He did the same damn stuff, but worse. Laughing


Tom Brady throws tons of bubble screens and swings. So does Brees. So does Manning.

They are efficient and important plays. MOST NFL throws are 'easy' difficulty. Its bad planning if you are regularly throwing high difficulty passes. They have low completion %'s and high INT rates. They lead to lower scoring drives and more punts. Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben are really the only elite QB in the NFL that makes a killing off of high difficulty passes.

Trubisky threw tons of easy passes, like every QB does. His accuracy and composure on high difficulty passes is extremely impressive to me.

Regarding the Manziel comment - I think a lot of it is cult of personality and wanting to believe in superheroes who can do it all themselves even if their track record indicates no real path for success. I bet an insanely disproportionate amount of Browns fans who loved Manziel also voted Trump for instance.
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poorbytehshore


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 3562
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
His completion percentage was highly inflated. So many bubble screens and swings.


Could you explain to me why you used to like Manziel so much? He did the same damn stuff, but worse. Laughing


Well I'd start off by saying, I was wrong. I liked his arm talent and thought he was accurate enough but I put too much stock into the moxie and intangibles element of his game. Basically the same thing that makes some people love Watson this year.

I watched him make some incredible comebacks like the Duke game where he made NFL throws and thought that if he applied himself, he could be like Russell Wilson. To some extent, I still believe he could've been decent if he wasn't a punk.

But yeah, I put too much stock in the moxie and the "winning" aspect of his game. Incidentally, I remember you calling me out back then for that very reason, yet when you posted the other day about why you liked Trubisky, you said it was because he was a winner... so now my turn! Why else do you like Trubisky?
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 58044
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poorbytehshore wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
His completion percentage was highly inflated. So many bubble screens and swings.


Could you explain to me why you used to like Manziel so much? He did the same damn stuff, but worse. Laughing


Well I'd start off by saying, I was wrong. I liked his arm talent and thought he was accurate enough but I put too much stock into the moxie and intangibles element of his game. Basically the same thing that makes some people love Watson this year.

I watched him make some incredible comebacks like the Duke game where he made NFL throws and thought that if he applied himself, he could be like Russell Wilson. To some extent, I still believe he could've been decent if he wasn't a punk.

But yeah, I put too much stock in the moxie and the "winning" aspect of his game. Incidentally, I remember you calling me out back then for that very reason, yet when you posted the other day about why you liked Trubisky, you said it was because he was a winner... so now my turn! Why else do you like Trubisky?


I want a specific quote.

Here's why I like Trub:

+Size
+Athleticism
+Arm strength
+Decision making
+Scrambling ability
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 58044
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roger murdock wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
His completion percentage was highly inflated. So many bubble screens and swings.


Could you explain to me why you used to like Manziel so much? He did the same damn stuff, but worse. Laughing


Tom Brady throws tons of bubble screens and swings. So does Brees. So does Manning.

They are efficient and important plays. MOST NFL throws are 'easy' difficulty. Its bad planning if you are regularly throwing high difficulty passes. They have low completion %'s and high INT rates. They lead to lower scoring drives and more punts. Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben are really the only elite QB in the NFL that makes a killing off of high difficulty passes.

Trubisky threw tons of easy passes, like every QB does. His accuracy and composure on high difficulty passes is extremely impressive to me.

Regarding the Manziel comment - I think a lot of it is cult of personality and wanting to believe in superheroes who can do it all themselves even if their track record indicates no real path for success. I bet an insanely disproportionate amount of Browns fans who loved Manziel also voted Trump for instance.


I actually really believe this. People need to sell themselves and have a false sense of hope rather than accepting reality. People do it when they gamble, attend religious ceremonies, and invest into get rich quick schemes. The real world sucks and some people mentally can't process that.
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roger murdock


Joined: 13 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poorbytehshore wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
His completion percentage was highly inflated. So many bubble screens and swings.


Could you explain to me why you used to like Manziel so much? He did the same damn stuff, but worse. Laughing


Well I'd start off by saying, I was wrong. I liked his arm talent and thought he was accurate enough but I put too much stock into the moxie and intangibles element of his game. Basically the same thing that makes some people love Watson this year.

I watched him make some incredible comebacks like the Duke game where he made NFL throws and thought that if he applied himself, he could be like Russell Wilson. To some extent, I still believe he could've been decent if he wasn't a punk.

But yeah, I put too much stock in the moxie and the "winning" aspect of his game. Incidentally, I remember you calling me out back then for that very reason, yet when you posted the other day about why you liked Trubisky, you said it was because he was a winner... so now my turn! Why else do you like Trubisky?


Trub plays within a system. He ran a similar offense to Manziel but Johnny played like a chicken with his head cutoff. It worked in college where 80% of people suck. It could never work in the NFL. He put so much pressure on all of his teammates, especially the offensive line, because he had no respect for the playcall or blocking assignments and could be anywhere at anytime.

Mitch plays with composure and plays to his teams gameplan. He has a stronger arm and is MUCH more accurate than Manziel. He has a feel for the pocket and does a great job avoiding pressure and throwing on the run.

When people say 'Johnny could have been good if' they are basically saying he could have been good if he played more like Trubs does.
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Schefters sources are correct, I believe Cleveland would trade up to 4 using pick 33. I doubt Chicago or San Fran takes him, but trading with Jacksonville prevents the Jets from leapfrogging.
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
If Schefters sources are correct, I believe Cleveland would trade up to 4 using pick 33. I doubt Chicago or San Fran takes him, but trading with Jacksonville prevents the Jets from leapfrogging.


Good. We can use the trade-up to get Hooker or Adams. Smile
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bosko1616


Joined: 22 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I honestly believe this a ploy to get bill to lower his price on Jimmy. Ultimately ending in us handing over 33 and picks next year to the Patriots.
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Bonanza23


Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 11192
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poorbytehshore wrote:
His completion percentage was highly inflated. So many bubble screens and swings.


I'm pretty convinced the only game you watched of Trubisky is the Va Tech game Laughing

There's nothing wrong with his accuracy. It's one step below elite. And one can argue it's elite. And no I could care less about his completion percentage. Not a huge stat guy.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 14928
Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roger murdock wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
His completion percentage was highly inflated. So many bubble screens and swings.


Could you explain to me why you used to like Manziel so much? He did the same damn stuff, but worse. Laughing


Tom Brady throws tons of bubble screens and swings. So does Brees. So does Manning.

They are efficient and important plays. MOST NFL throws are 'easy' difficulty. Its bad planning if you are regularly throwing high difficulty passes. They have low completion %'s and high INT rates. They lead to lower scoring drives and more punts. Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben are really the only elite QB in the NFL that makes a killing off of high difficulty passes.

Trubisky threw tons of easy passes, like every QB does. His accuracy and composure on high difficulty passes is extremely impressive to me.

Regarding the Manziel comment - I think a lot of it is cult of personality and wanting to believe in superheroes who can do it all themselves even if their track record indicates no real path for success. I bet an insanely disproportionate amount of Browns fans who loved Manziel also voted Trump for instance.


Yeah that is way too big of a leap. I personally don't fit the profile. I wanted Manziel because I thought (think) his talent could make a good NFL QB. Athletic ability, arm strength, accuracy was all there. The desire wasn't there and I didn't foresee that (obviously) and that is the difference in hm starting for us this year and him attempting a comeback to the league.
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1st off Thomas is a man!
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 14928
Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

roger murdock wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
poorbytehshore wrote:
His completion percentage was highly inflated. So many bubble screens and swings.


Could you explain to me why you used to like Manziel so much? He did the same damn stuff, but worse. Laughing


Tom Brady throws tons of bubble screens and swings. So does Brees. So does Manning.

They are efficient and important plays. MOST NFL throws are 'easy' difficulty. Its bad planning if you are regularly throwing high difficulty passes. They have low completion %'s and high INT rates. They lead to lower scoring drives and more punts. Aaron Rodgers and Big Ben are really the only elite QB in the NFL that makes a killing off of high difficulty passes.

Trubisky threw tons of easy passes, like every QB does. His accuracy and composure on high difficulty passes is extremely impressive to me.

Regarding the Manziel comment - I think a lot of it is cult of personality and wanting to believe in superheroes who can do it all themselves even if their track record indicates no real path for success. I bet an insanely disproportionate amount of Browns fans who loved Manziel also voted Trump for instance.


Rodgers is usually towards the bottom in air yards per attempt so he isn't the gunslinger that the highlights we see tell us he is. His average pass went 3.91 yards (Kessler was 3.86) last year it was 3.14. It's been 4.1, 4.2,3.9 depending on the year but he is usually middle of the pack or lower. Roethlisberger isn't usually towards the top either, he was 2nd last year (2016) but it was the exception to the norm. Tony Romo, Peyton Manning, those guys were regularly the leaders in yards per attempt. Cousins led the league last year (2017).

Edit I can't get my "last years" straight.
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1st off Thomas is a man!
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H2ThaIzzo


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 5444
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counselor wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
I feel Cleveland drafts Mitch at 1, this MUST be an offensive draft. You don't pick a QB #1 and not invest in talent around him.

I won't like it, but your hand is forced.


I still cant see that. Analytics have to show that you can over react and draft a QB like him #1 overall.

With how much time they are giving this FO, I cant see them reaching for a QB this badly, specially when there is a legit #1 overall talent in Garrett. If they truly want Mitch. Trade up to top5 from #12. If Mitch is gone they put themselves in position for the likes of Adams, Hooker, Thomas, or a DB


I forgot to include the word "if" my bad.


umm, that's a pretty big "forgot". that's up there with buying kool-aid and forgetting milk. peanut butter and no jelly. cereal no milk. ham no burger.


Do you put kool aid in your milk???


Joke's on me I guess.
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