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2017 Raider Draft Thread 2.0
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Rich7sena


Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 6850
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
Eh, since when do RTs go top 10?

Since last year. See: Jack Conklin. And a floor denotes the worse a player can be. If the worst player Robinson can be is a 10 year high level starter, he deserves to go top 10.
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IMO he's more technically sound and has a higher floor, but to each their own.

Easy to say using hindsight, but both Robinsons benefited from playing in schemes which highlight their strengths and hide their weaknesses.
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Mr.Bob Dobalina


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would you take Reuben Foster at 24 ? Because more than likely he'll be there. I damn sure would.He'd upgrade our defense dramatically.
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RaidersAreOne


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Location: Canada, but don't worry... i'm not one of those damn dirty french.
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
Would you take Reuben Foster at 24 ? Because more than likely he'll be there. I damn sure would.He'd upgrade our defense dramatically.


Yes. And I still don't agree with the bold. He sure has had a rough go after the season ended (kicked out of combine, diluted drug sample, etc), but he is still an elite prospect. I could see all that stuff pushing him out of the top 10, but I highly doubt he slides to 24.
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RaidersAreOne


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also John Ross is getting torn apart by the media right now regarding medicals. He's had tons of big injures thus far (4 I think?) and has a small frame. Some rumors out there are he is going to make a big slide too.
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Mr.Bob Dobalina


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2002
Location: Texas
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersAreOne wrote:
Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
Would you take Reuben Foster at 24 ? Because more than likely he'll be there. I damn sure would.He'd upgrade our defense dramatically.


Yes. And I still don't agree with the bold. He sure has had a rough go after the season ended (kicked out of combine, diluted drug sample, etc), but he is still an elite prospect. I could see all that stuff pushing him out of the top 10, but I highly doubt he slides to 24.


Teams picking between 33-45 will need to make sure they are comfortable with R. Foster, cause he will be there.. -Micheal Lombardi

I could see him falling out of the first round. Come 2nd round teams will more than likely be ready to gamble.
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riceraider8080


Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 6495
Location: Missoula, Montana
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich7sena wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
At worst, he's a starting right tackle for 10 years at a high level. Plus he can play guard in a pinch, giving him versatility if injuries happen.

If this were true Robinson would be a top 10 pick, easily. At worst, he's Greg Robinson.


Cam is nowhere near the freakish athlete Greg was coming out.

He's literally almost a clone of Cherilus as a prospect. Great size, long arms, large powerful hands, mauler in run game. Struggles with speed and high motor pass rushers, poor balance and doesn't keep his weight square, lacks bend and lateral agility.

As an offensive tackle, to me, his ceiling is Gosder Cherilus, his floor is Cornell Green. Do not understand the love het gets. He's a run of the mill power RT. In a decent tackle class i dont think hed even be a 1st round pick. The OT class in this draft is woeful tho
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riceraider8080


Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
Would you take Reuben Foster at 24 ? Because more than likely he'll be there. I damn sure would.He'd upgrade our defense dramatically.


Yes. And I still don't agree with the bold. He sure has had a rough go after the season ended (kicked out of combine, diluted drug sample, etc), but he is still an elite prospect. I could see all that stuff pushing him out of the top 10, but I highly doubt he slides to 24.


Teams picking between 33-45 will need to make sure they are comfortable with R. Foster, cause he will be there.. -Micheal Lombardi

I could see him falling out of the first round. Come 2nd round teams will more than likely be ready to gamble.


He wont make it out of the first. He's too talented for a playoff team not to make a luxury pick out of him. He may fall but i dont see him making it past the Lions at 21 if does...
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MrOaktown_56


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

riceraider8080 wrote:
Rich7sena wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
At worst, he's a starting right tackle for 10 years at a high level. Plus he can play guard in a pinch, giving him versatility if injuries happen.

If this were true Robinson would be a top 10 pick, easily. At worst, he's Greg Robinson.


Cam is nowhere near the freakish athlete Greg was coming out.

He's literally almost a clone of Cherilus as a prospect. Great size, long arms, large powerful hands, mauler in run game. Struggles with speed and high motor pass rushers, poor balance and doesn't keep his weight square, lacks bend and lateral agility.

As an offensive tackle, to me, his ceiling is Gosder Cherilus, his floor is Cornell Green. Do not understand the love het gets. He's a run of the mill power RT. In a decent tackle class i dont think hed even be a 1st round pick. The OT class in this draft is woeful tho


Struggles with speed rushers? Yeah.. watch his game vs Myles Garrett. Held his own very well and was single blocking garrett for pretty much the whole game. He's not an elite left tackle prospect, but for the supply and demand of the NFL, he's plenty ready.
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El ramster wrote:
bertuzzi wrote:
Goff and Gurley are the worst QB-RB combo in history lmfao


Yo buddy quit trolling yeah.
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riceraider8080


Joined: 17 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
riceraider8080 wrote:
Rich7sena wrote:
MrOaktown_56 wrote:
At worst, he's a starting right tackle for 10 years at a high level. Plus he can play guard in a pinch, giving him versatility if injuries happen.

If this were true Robinson would be a top 10 pick, easily. At worst, he's Greg Robinson.


Cam is nowhere near the freakish athlete Greg was coming out.

He's literally almost a clone of Cherilus as a prospect. Great size, long arms, large powerful hands, mauler in run game. Struggles with speed and high motor pass rushers, poor balance and doesn't keep his weight square, lacks bend and lateral agility.

As an offensive tackle, to me, his ceiling is Gosder Cherilus, his floor is Cornell Green. Do not understand the love het gets. He's a run of the mill power RT. In a decent tackle class i dont think hed even be a 1st round pick. The OT class in this draft is woeful tho


Struggles with speed rushers? Yeah.. watch his game vs Myles Garrett. Held his own very well and was single blocking garrett for pretty much the whole game. He's not an elite left tackle prospect, but for the supply and demand of the NFL, he's plenty ready.


Idk what game you watched but you might wanna look again. Theyve give him help in the form of backs, tight ends, and misdirection plays. They ran away frm Garrett alot threw tons of short outs and screens. That tape has actually displays his lack of balance and lack of foot speed on many occasions. He wins when he gets inside your pads and has you in a phone booth...

My scouting reoprt on that game was this...

Robinson lost as much as he won in that game when he was 1 on 1 with Garrett. And he didnt face him alone even close to all game...

He had help on 10 plays, allowed pressure 4 times, lost his balance a couple times, had a late jump once, 2 missed assignments that led to 2 TFL and another that should've been a TFL but Garrett missed the tackle, they ran toward Garrett just 3 times as opposed to 27 times up the middle or to the right side, and wasn't even responsible for blocking Garrett on 23 plays.

Hardly handled Garrett handily and didn't come close to facing off with him one on one all game...
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holyghost


Joined: 18 Jan 2007
Posts: 6691
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
Mr.Bob Dobalina wrote:
Would you take Reuben Foster at 24 ? Because more than likely he'll be there. I damn sure would.He'd upgrade our defense dramatically.


Yes. And I still don't agree with the bold. He sure has had a rough go after the season ended (kicked out of combine, diluted drug sample, etc), but he is still an elite prospect. I could see all that stuff pushing him out of the top 10, but I highly doubt he slides to 24.


Teams picking between 33-45 will need to make sure they are comfortable with R. Foster, cause he will be there.. -Micheal Lombardi

I could see him falling out of the first round. Come 2nd round teams will more than likely be ready to gamble.


Foster won't be there, Lombardi is a bit of an idiot. This is the "same thing every year" garbage put out about prospects designed to push them down for some salivating teams.

I get that he has a couple issues, but believe this: Before the issues he was absolutely going top 10. Now, I have no doubts he will go 10-25. And if he's there for the Raiders I will be furious if they do not pick him. He is one of the best players in this draft at our biggest position of need by far.
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BigD1123


Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 750
Location: South carolina
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
I would hate to spend a 1st on a rb especially when we have 2 young guns

almost starting to sour on lynch

bout to be in bp mode and say screw it get a rb late in the draft


I think it depends on who else is on the board and how we draft after that. So many scenarios that could be positive even with taking RB with our first pick.

If we traded down to the late 1st and grabbed another 2nd and 3rd/4th and then drafted 3 straight defenders, I wouldn't be mad.

But I feel you on Lynch.


we have so many needs and imo rb isnt top on the list I think d. wash can be a 3 down back

id get a cheap bruiser in the late rounds

id love a trade down esp with all these qbs available


I wouldn't, especially if a clearly better player on your big board is there. Whether he is a RB or not. Only players I won't take in the 1st is a QB TE ST FB or WR. Otherwise, I'm going off my board.


I trust the staff. If we get a Mike Williams or Ross at WR I'm not gonna fuss. But I won't funny if we take anyone really. These guys know their stuff
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BigD1123


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
Gaetano wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:


Cook ran vs his share of weak competition as well. Weak argument. Plus Mixon was sharing carries most of the year with another good back in Perine.

All the things that you stated as strengths for Cook are also strengths for Mixon. And you didn't mention any of the red flags for Cook besides blocking. Saying that he just needs to get the technique down is ridiculous. You're telling me that he didn't have the coaching, desire, ability to learn that vital skill in 3 yrs. Good blitz pick up is about film study, having the desire to stick your nose in there and lay a hit and technique. There are already signs of Cook making business decisions because of that bum shoulder but to show he didn't get that down in 3yrs and 680plus carries is alarming.

Maybe he just won't be that type of back that we could depend to protect Carr. Well that is a major concern considering how important that is to Carr(talks about how Murray best trait was pass blocking), the team(Reggie and Oline stress protection) and fans.

Then you put on top of that the fact that our need at RB is a back that can not only step in and pass block but also get those tough yards, Mixon should be is clearly in front of Cook on our big board. The only reason that makes sense to drop him is if you can't get past the incident 3 yrs ago. Well, it seems Mark has signed off.


Cook destroyed the upper echelon of competition. If you want to dismiss it as him and Mixon against the same level of comp, OK, but its disingenuous at best

And Mixon does not possess anywhere near Cook's elite vision. The difference between us and most teams though is that you might not need elite vision with a great OL opening wide holes.. but I tend to believe our pass blocking is what's elite and our run blocking is average to above average. For all the Mixon love, he could easily wind up a homerun threat that will get what's blocked.

Mixon has Cook on pass-pro and ball security, handily. And Cook has vision and the ability to create yards for himself, handily. Since we have depth and the league seems to be really embracing the 3-headed backfields, I'd prefer the guy who has the best running/creating skills and would bank on him learning technique (yes, this is what's the issue w/Cook) through repetition over hoping Mixon develops better vision. I wouldn't mind Mixon FWIW, but I dont think he's on Fournette/Cook/McCaffrey's levels as guys who will create yardage on their own


It's not disingenuous to say that Cook ran vs the same amount of weak Acc defenses that Mixon did in the Big 10. But yes, you are right that Cook had great games vs stout defenses of Clemson and Michigan.

I don't think Mixon is very far back at all in creating yards for himself especially when running up the middle. Cook has a tendency to be impatience and try to bounce everything outside while Mixon uses his vision and decisiveness to hit the hole and run thru tackles. Mixon is by far tougher in traffic, generates more leg power on contact, has a sick jump step and possess a devastating stiff arm. Mixon is also an elite receiver not only in route running, but in separation and hands. Only McCaffery can match him there. Cook also is an injury concern having 3 surgeries on the same shoulder since high school along with hamstring troubles off and on.

So when looking at our needs and our system in regards to RB needs, Mixon checks all the boxes. A willing pass blocker. Powerful in the gap and in traffic. Elite in the passing game. Rarely fumbles. No injury concerns. By far the more versatile back.

Not saying Cook is a bad back. On the contrary, he is very good. But don't think it's close when deciding who would be better for our team if we took a back early. Mixon all day.


It's pretty disingenuous considering the ACC was one of if not the best conference last yr.
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BigD1123


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't matter to me. I haven't said it in a month or so and the draft is almost here so I may as well say it. I want Boulware. Also Gallman. Williams and Artavis Scott would be nice as well. That is all carry on...
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riceraider8080


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigD1123 wrote:
Doesn't matter to me. I haven't said it in a month or so and the draft is almost here so I may as well say it. I want Boulware. Also Gallman. Williams and Artavis Scott would be nice as well. That is all carry on...


I've said it before and I'll say it again, Boulware is the reincarnation of Greg Beikert. Id love him in the 4th or 5th. He's a football player thru and thru.

My hope is that we double down on LB in the draft. Cunningham or Davis in the 1st and Boulware or Beckwith in the 4th. CB in the 2nd, DT in the 3rd, S in the 5th, RB in the 6th, and OL in the 7th...
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BigD1123


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

riceraider8080 wrote:
BigD1123 wrote:
Doesn't matter to me. I haven't said it in a month or so and the draft is almost here so I may as well say it. I want Boulware. Also Gallman. Williams and Artavis Scott would be nice as well. That is all carry on...


I've said it before and I'll say it again, Boulware is the reincarnation of Greg Beikert. Id love him in the 4th or 5th. He's a football player thru and thru.

My hope is that we double down on LB in the draft. Cunningham or Davis in the 1st and Boulware or Beckwith in the 4th. CB in the 2nd, DT in the 3rd, S in the 5th, RB in the 6th, and OL in the 7th...


Boulware is a leader and has a motor that doesn't stop! Also like the Beikert comp. And you know he tested pretty well too. Now I'm not saying take him in round one or two. But I think the team that does take him doesn't regret it. This kid will run someone's D from the middle and he's gonna be on point. He was like a coach on the field at Clemson. And the years he started at MLB happen to be some of the best defensive units in the country.
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