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2017 Raider Draft Thread 2.0
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3138
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gaetano wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
Gaetano wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://justblogbaby.com/2017/04/20/report-mark-davis-approves-oakland-raiders-drafting-joe-mixon/

look like raiders might draft mixon after all since mark davis approves, if no lynch. look for raiders to draft him in 1st or 2nd round


There's a report out that states Fournette and McCaffrey might be the only RBs drafted in round 1 this year. If that's the case, and Dalvin Cook is there at our pick, I'd happily take him over Lynch and definitely over Mixon

And Mark giving the green light is one hurdle, it doesnt necessarily mean Reggie is on board. I hope its a smokescreen, frankly. We've taken the high road the past few years just to sell it out for a draft pick? He'd better be a top 5 back in the league.. I think he's barely a top 5 back in this draft

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000801177/article/sources-tell-us-dalvin-cook-could-slide-to-round-2-of-nfl-draft?campaign=tw-cf-sf71844044-sf71844044


Your wrong bout his talent but I respect your opinion not to like him. Some can't forgive what he's done.

Cook reminds me of LeSean McCoy or Ladainian Tomlinson in some ways, which is a very good thing in some ways. Elusive with power and speed to finish runs. But his reds flags add up. Ball security, poor blitz pickup, recurring shoulder injury and multiple arrests has Cook squarely behind Mixon, Fournette and McCaffery as a prospect IMO.


I understand what Mixon brings to the table. He didnt do it against great competition so I have him as 4th/5th on my board behind Fournette/Cook/McCaffrey and interchanging with Kamara (he's rising too fast for me now, I loved him as a rd3/rd4 sleeper before). I love that he can catch the ball but I do question his vision and ability to make an immediate impact.

But the reason I love Cook is because he's an elite 2-down guy and I dont think 3rd down is off the table at all - he's definitely built like a guy who can block, he just needs to get the technique down. But with Washington and Richard already here, my main concern is someone with + vision who can not only punch it in the redzone, but someone with homerun potential, what with the elite tackle-breaking ability he's shown. Since Fournette's unattainable, someone like Cook becomes really viable for me. He might not ever reach 3-down potential, but I'd be willing to sell out a bit of the future to have a great 3-headed monster of RBs.


Cook ran vs his share of weak competition as well. Weak argument. Plus Mixon was sharing carries most of the year with another good back in Perine.

All the things that you stated as strengths for Cook are also strengths for Mixon. And you didn't mention any of the red flags for Cook besides blocking. Saying that he just needs to get the technique down is ridiculous. You're telling me that he didn't have the coaching, desire, ability to learn that vital skill in 3 yrs. Good blitz pick up is about film study, having the desire to stick your nose in there and lay a hit and technique. There are already signs of Cook making business decisions because of that bum shoulder but to show he didn't get that down in 3yrs and 680plus carries is alarming.

Maybe he just won't be that type of back that we could depend to protect Carr. Well that is a major concern considering how important that is to Carr(talks about how Murray best trait was pass blocking), the team(Reggie and Oline stress protection) and fans.

Then you put on top of that the fact that our need at RB is a back that can not only step in and pass block but also get those tough yards, Mixon should be is clearly in front of Cook on our big board. The only reason that makes sense to drop him is if you can't get past the incident 3 yrs ago. Well, it seems Mark has signed off.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
Posts: 8697
Location: Fresno, California
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
Gaetano wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
Gaetano wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
http://justblogbaby.com/2017/04/20/report-mark-davis-approves-oakland-raiders-drafting-joe-mixon/

look like raiders might draft mixon after all since mark davis approves, if no lynch. look for raiders to draft him in 1st or 2nd round


There's a report out that states Fournette and McCaffrey might be the only RBs drafted in round 1 this year. If that's the case, and Dalvin Cook is there at our pick, I'd happily take him over Lynch and definitely over Mixon

And Mark giving the green light is one hurdle, it doesnt necessarily mean Reggie is on board. I hope its a smokescreen, frankly. We've taken the high road the past few years just to sell it out for a draft pick? He'd better be a top 5 back in the league.. I think he's barely a top 5 back in this draft

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000801177/article/sources-tell-us-dalvin-cook-could-slide-to-round-2-of-nfl-draft?campaign=tw-cf-sf71844044-sf71844044


Your wrong bout his talent but I respect your opinion not to like him. Some can't forgive what he's done.

Cook reminds me of LeSean McCoy or Ladainian Tomlinson in some ways, which is a very good thing in some ways. Elusive with power and speed to finish runs. But his reds flags add up. Ball security, poor blitz pickup, recurring shoulder injury and multiple arrests has Cook squarely behind Mixon, Fournette and McCaffery as a prospect IMO.


I understand what Mixon brings to the table. He didnt do it against great competition so I have him as 4th/5th on my board behind Fournette/Cook/McCaffrey and interchanging with Kamara (he's rising too fast for me now, I loved him as a rd3/rd4 sleeper before). I love that he can catch the ball but I do question his vision and ability to make an immediate impact.

But the reason I love Cook is because he's an elite 2-down guy and I dont think 3rd down is off the table at all - he's definitely built like a guy who can block, he just needs to get the technique down. But with Washington and Richard already here, my main concern is someone with + vision who can not only punch it in the redzone, but someone with homerun potential, what with the elite tackle-breaking ability he's shown. Since Fournette's unattainable, someone like Cook becomes really viable for me. He might not ever reach 3-down potential, but I'd be willing to sell out a bit of the future to have a great 3-headed monster of RBs.


Cook ran vs his share of weak competition as well. Weak argument. Plus Mixon was sharing carries most of the year with another good back in Perine.

All the things that you stated as strengths for Cook are also strengths for Mixon. And you didn't mention any of the red flags for Cook besides blocking. Saying that he just needs to get the technique down is ridiculous. You're telling me that he didn't have the coaching, desire, ability to learn that vital skill in 3 yrs. Good blitz pick up is about film study, having the desire to stick your nose in there and lay a hit and technique. There are already signs of Cook making business decisions because of that bum shoulder but to show he didn't get that down in 3yrs and 680plus carries is alarming.

Maybe he just won't be that type of back that we could depend to protect Carr. Well that is a major concern considering how important that is to Carr(talks about how Murray best trait was pass blocking), the team(Reggie and Oline stress protection) and fans.

Then you put on top of that the fact that our need at RB is a back that can not only step in and pass block but also get those tough yards, Mixon should be is clearly in front of Cook on our big board. The only reason that makes sense to drop him is if you can't get past the incident 3 yrs ago. Well, it seems Mark has signed off.
I agree Mixon is the best RB in this draft imo base on talent alone.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 16667
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would hate to spend a 1st on a rb especially when we have 2 young guns

almost starting to sour on lynch

bout to be in bp mode and say screw it get a rb late in the draft
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3138
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
I would hate to spend a 1st on a rb especially when we have 2 young guns

almost starting to sour on lynch

bout to be in bp mode and say screw it get a rb late in the draft


I think it depends on who else is on the board and how we draft after that. So many scenarios that could be positive even with taking RB with our first pick.

If we traded down to the late 1st and grabbed another 2nd and 3rd/4th and then drafted 3 straight defenders, I wouldn't be mad.

But I feel you on Lynch.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 16667
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
I would hate to spend a 1st on a rb especially when we have 2 young guns

almost starting to sour on lynch

bout to be in bp mode and say screw it get a rb late in the draft


I think it depends on who else is on the board and how we draft after that. So many scenarios that could be positive even with taking RB with our first pick.

If we traded down to the late 1st and grabbed another 2nd and 3rd/4th and then drafted 3 straight defenders, I wouldn't be mad.

But I feel you on Lynch.


we have so many needs and imo rb isnt top on the list I think d. wash can be a 3 down back

id get a cheap bruiser in the late rounds

id love a trade down esp with all these qbs available
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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jlieberum1985


Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 354
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrich and dwash will never be full time player, we need a vet running back like lynch for wearing the defense down
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3138
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
I would hate to spend a 1st on a rb especially when we have 2 young guns

almost starting to sour on lynch

bout to be in bp mode and say screw it get a rb late in the draft


I think it depends on who else is on the board and how we draft after that. So many scenarios that could be positive even with taking RB with our first pick.

If we traded down to the late 1st and grabbed another 2nd and 3rd/4th and then drafted 3 straight defenders, I wouldn't be mad.

But I feel you on Lynch.


we have so many needs and imo rb isnt top on the list I think d. wash can be a 3 down back

id get a cheap bruiser in the late rounds

id love a trade down esp with all these qbs available


I wouldn't, especially if a clearly better player on your big board is there. Whether he is a RB or not. Only players I won't take in the 1st is a QB TE ST FB or WR. Otherwise, I'm going off my board.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 16667
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
I would hate to spend a 1st on a rb especially when we have 2 young guns

almost starting to sour on lynch

bout to be in bp mode and say screw it get a rb late in the draft


I think it depends on who else is on the board and how we draft after that. So many scenarios that could be positive even with taking RB with our first pick.

If we traded down to the late 1st and grabbed another 2nd and 3rd/4th and then drafted 3 straight defenders, I wouldn't be mad.

But I feel you on Lynch.


we have so many needs and imo rb isnt top on the list I think d. wash can be a 3 down back

id get a cheap bruiser in the late rounds

id love a trade down esp with all these qbs available


I wouldn't, especially if a clearly better player on your big board is there. Whether he is a RB or not. Only players I won't take in the 1st is a QB TE ST FB or WR. Otherwise, I'm going off my board.


speaking of big board

foster with the cloudy drug test?
hmmm rolo part 2?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/alabamas-reuben-foster-failed-drug-test-at-combine/ar-BBA67Sq?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=TOSHIBADHP15
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101


Last edited by NCOUGHMAN on Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 6641
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jlieberum1985 wrote:
jrich and dwash will never be full time player, we need a vet running back like lynch for wearing the defense down


Murray was under rated on his pass blocking skills. He was a very good pass blocker. He was ranked 3rd I think according to PFF. Washington and Richard didn't have many pass blocking reps which may be an indicator that we had concerns.

The biggest problem for rookie RBs is pass blocking. Given what happened. when Carr went down last year, I'm picking up a vet RB who I know can pass block than taking a risk on a mid round RB.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3138
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
jrich and dwash will never be full time player, we need a vet running back like lynch for wearing the defense down


Murray was under rated on his pass blocking skills. He was a very good pass blocker. He was ranked 3rd I think according to PFF. Washington and Richard didn't have many pass blocking reps which may be an indicator that we had concerns.

The biggest problem for rookie RBs is pass blocking. Given what happened. when Carr went down last year, I'm picking up a vet RB who I know can pass block than taking a risk on a mid round RB.


For that back to use the pass blocking he would have to not only be a 3rd down back but be good out of the shotgun. Not many of those hanging around at this point. Johnson and Taylor from the Cards come to mind but both are lacking in other areas we would look for.

College backs get the rep they can't block because they have to learn their teams offensive calls and audibles and recognize defensive shifts and tendencies. It helps if they were already doing it in college like the Oklahoma backs were. There are backs in college that can pass block. Mixon and Perine were expected to block not only in the pocket but on options, bootlegs and sprint out by Mayfield and as lead blockers for each other all year.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
Dessie wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
jrich and dwash will never be full time player, we need a vet running back like lynch for wearing the defense down


Murray was under rated on his pass blocking skills. He was a very good pass blocker. He was ranked 3rd I think according to PFF. Washington and Richard didn't have many pass blocking reps which may be an indicator that we had concerns.

The biggest problem for rookie RBs is pass blocking. Given what happened. when Carr went down last year, I'm picking up a vet RB who I know can pass block than taking a risk on a mid round RB.


For that back to use the pass blocking he would have to not only be a 3rd down back but be good out of the shotgun. Not many of those hanging around at this point. Johnson and Taylor from the Cards come to mind but both are lacking in other areas we would look for.

College backs get the rep they can't block because they have to learn their teams offensive calls and audibles and recognize defensive shifts and tendencies. It helps if they were already doing it in college like the Oklahoma backs were. There are backs in college that can pass block. Mixon and Perine were expected to block not only in the pocket but on options, bootlegs and sprint out by Mayfield and as lead blockers for each other all year.


Lead blocking is not pass blocking and Mixon did little pass blocking, he is average in that regard. Most of the bigger backs likley available in mid rounds have concerns over their pass blocking e.g Conner.
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 3138
Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
Dessie wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
jrich and dwash will never be full time player, we need a vet running back like lynch for wearing the defense down


Murray was under rated on his pass blocking skills. He was a very good pass blocker. He was ranked 3rd I think according to PFF. Washington and Richard didn't have many pass blocking reps which may be an indicator that we had concerns.

The biggest problem for rookie RBs is pass blocking. Given what happened. when Carr went down last year, I'm picking up a vet RB who I know can pass block than taking a risk on a mid round RB.


For that back to use the pass blocking he would have to not only be a 3rd down back but be good out of the shotgun. Not many of those hanging around at this point. Johnson and Taylor from the Cards come to mind but both are lacking in other areas we would look for.

College backs get the rep they can't block because they have to learn their teams offensive calls and audibles and recognize defensive shifts and tendencies. It helps if they were already doing it in college like the Oklahoma backs were. There are backs in college that can pass block. Mixon and Perine were expected to block not only in the pocket but on options, bootlegs and sprint out by Mayfield and as lead blockers for each other all year.


Lead blocking is not pass blocking and Mixon did little pass blocking, he is average in that regard. Most of the bigger backs likley available in mid rounds have concerns over their pass blocking e.g Conner.


I know that there is a difference in lead blocking and pass blocking. That's why I listed that they did both along with mobile pocket protection for Mayfield. And yes, I would say he was avg.
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
Dessie wrote:
NightTrainLane wrote:
Dessie wrote:
jlieberum1985 wrote:
jrich and dwash will never be full time player, we need a vet running back like lynch for wearing the defense down


Murray was under rated on his pass blocking skills. He was a very good pass blocker. He was ranked 3rd I think according to PFF. Washington and Richard didn't have many pass blocking reps which may be an indicator that we had concerns.

The biggest problem for rookie RBs is pass blocking. Given what happened. when Carr went down last year, I'm picking up a vet RB who I know can pass block than taking a risk on a mid round RB.


For that back to use the pass blocking he would have to not only be a 3rd down back but be good out of the shotgun. Not many of those hanging around at this point. Johnson and Taylor from the Cards come to mind but both are lacking in other areas we would look for.

College backs get the rep they can't block because they have to learn their teams offensive calls and audibles and recognize defensive shifts and tendencies. It helps if they were already doing it in college like the Oklahoma backs were. There are backs in college that can pass block. Mixon and Perine were expected to block not only in the pocket but on options, bootlegs and sprint out by Mayfield and as lead blockers for each other all year.


Lead blocking is not pass blocking and Mixon did little pass blocking, he is average in that regard. Most of the bigger backs likley available in mid rounds have concerns over their pass blocking e.g Conner.


I know that there is a difference in lead blocking and pass blocking. That's why I listed that they did both along with mobile pocket protection for Mayfield. And yes, I would say he was avg.


Glad you agree.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 8095
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it worth taking sidney jones in the 2nd? A bit of a boom bust, but IMO, I would take the chance. Long term, he could be a #1 corner for us. Assuming medical checks out. He'll only be 21 next season too.
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Danand wrote:
Carr is 22-25,no playoff games, I'd take Flacco over him.To me it seems like Flacco is just where he belongs. Behind the Brady, Roethlisberger,Rivers,Rodgers,Wilson and ahead of Carr,Tannehill,Cousins,Palmer,Dalton,Luck
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Dessie


Joined: 02 Feb 2006
Posts: 6641
PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Is it worth taking sidney jones in the 2nd? A bit of a boom bust, but IMO, I would take the chance. Long term, he could be a #1 corner for us. Assuming medical checks out. He'll only be 21 next season too.


Not for me. Unlikely to play any of 2017, poor tackler and probably under sized for boundary for what we look for. 3rd/4th maybe.
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