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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 10729
Location: Manhattan, NY
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Random but McKinley promised a 4.4 40 for tomorrow. If he does at 250 lbs, god help us.
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thebeyonder


Joined: 30 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barnaby8787 wrote:
thebeyonder wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
rickyt31 wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Random question guys, if you HAD to take a QB at 6 and all three were available, who's your guy?



For me, I'm split on Watson & Mitch. I see more potential from Mitch. His tape doesn't show me anything that makes me believe he wouldn't make it as a starter. But Watson is carrying the same type of spark Cam Newton carried at Auburn. I'm looking for leadership skills in losing games to divide the two. I need to see a game where Mitch took a lot of hits and see how he bounced back.
That's where i'm at. To me, I see Ryan Tannehill in Mitch. Reminds me of a guy that's going to be a fringe top 15, MAYBE top 10 QB. I don't know what I see it Deshaun to be honest. Some have said McNabb, some had said Alex Smith. He throws way too many picks for my liking, but the guy is a big game QB that wins. I think i'd rather have Deshaun, but there's no clear cut one here. Either way, I don't want Deshone. The guy has upside which I get, but he's much riskier IMO.


I like Mitchell but don't like Tannehill. I don't remember Tannehill coming out but in my opinion, today's Tannehill isn't a good QB. He has pocket presence issues, misses reads, checks down too much to avoid mistakes, and is made to look better than by his line/receivers than is actually the case. Tannehill isn't a top 10 QB now (nor has he ever been). And for his playing style now, I don't see these Tannehill tendencies in North Carolina QB.

Relative to Tannehill, Trubisky has great qualities. He has good enough pocket presence, sees the field, can successfully use his legs to make time and makes good decisions without checking down too much. I like him more on tape than Watson but the Clemson QB does have a better pedigree. His feet seem faster and was holding back some of his ability last season because he didn't want to seem like a running QB.

Gun to my head I guess I choose Trubisky because he's more of a competent pocket passer when it comes to what matters. Watson has more "potential" though. He can be like a Russell Wilson.
Personally, I don't see as many issues with Tannehill's game. He is a bit of a headcase and Trubisky (to the best of our knowledge) isn't. A similar build, experience coming out, athleticism, and arm talent is what I see personally. The Watson/Wilson comp is interesting.


Tannehill is a headcase? How so? He seems to well-adjusted to me. Just overrated. To supplement my low opinion of Tannehill, I'll cite his 3rd down conversation rate. On 3 and 4+ (exluding 4th 10), Tannehill was 30% in terms of converting 3rd downs.

For comparison, I'm going to use random active backups having started full or near full seasons:

2010 Kansas City starter Matt Cassell's 3rd and 4+ conversation rate: 41%

2015 Houston starter Brian Hoyer's 3rd and 4+ conversation rate: 36%

2016 Matt Barkley conversation rate on 3rd and 4+: 47%

So as you can see, stats support my analysis of Tannehill's underwhelming game. Tannehill depends on his running game to get him into manageable positions and then he takes calculated risks to his outside receivers. If this doesn't work, he fails flat because he can't move the chains on his own. Teams that win Superbowls have QBs that can do both: take calculated risks AND make the difficult 3rd down throws at a higher than 40% clip. All of Brady, Ryan, Rivers, even some backups do it. Tannehill doesn't and never will.

Trubisky, I think, can make the tough throws under pressure But then I never saw Tannehill play on the way out..was he a pocket passer?
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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 10729
Location: Manhattan, NY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebeyonder wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
thebeyonder wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
rickyt31 wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Random question guys, if you HAD to take a QB at 6 and all three were available, who's your guy?



For me, I'm split on Watson & Mitch. I see more potential from Mitch. His tape doesn't show me anything that makes me believe he wouldn't make it as a starter. But Watson is carrying the same type of spark Cam Newton carried at Auburn. I'm looking for leadership skills in losing games to divide the two. I need to see a game where Mitch took a lot of hits and see how he bounced back.
That's where i'm at. To me, I see Ryan Tannehill in Mitch. Reminds me of a guy that's going to be a fringe top 15, MAYBE top 10 QB. I don't know what I see it Deshaun to be honest. Some have said McNabb, some had said Alex Smith. He throws way too many picks for my liking, but the guy is a big game QB that wins. I think i'd rather have Deshaun, but there's no clear cut one here. Either way, I don't want Deshone. The guy has upside which I get, but he's much riskier IMO.


I like Mitchell but don't like Tannehill. I don't remember Tannehill coming out but in my opinion, today's Tannehill isn't a good QB. He has pocket presence issues, misses reads, checks down too much to avoid mistakes, and is made to look better than by his line/receivers than is actually the case. Tannehill isn't a top 10 QB now (nor has he ever been). And for his playing style now, I don't see these Tannehill tendencies in North Carolina QB.

Relative to Tannehill, Trubisky has great qualities. He has good enough pocket presence, sees the field, can successfully use his legs to make time and makes good decisions without checking down too much. I like him more on tape than Watson but the Clemson QB does have a better pedigree. His feet seem faster and was holding back some of his ability last season because he didn't want to seem like a running QB.

Gun to my head I guess I choose Trubisky because he's more of a competent pocket passer when it comes to what matters. Watson has more "potential" though. He can be like a Russell Wilson.
Personally, I don't see as many issues with Tannehill's game. He is a bit of a headcase and Trubisky (to the best of our knowledge) isn't. A similar build, experience coming out, athleticism, and arm talent is what I see personally. The Watson/Wilson comp is interesting.


Tannehill is a headcase? How so? He seems to well-adjusted to me. Just overrated. To supplement my low opinion of Tannehill, I'll cite his 3rd down conversation rate. On 3 and 4+ (exluding 4th 10), Tannehill was 30% in terms of converting 3rd downs.

For comparison, I'm going to use random active backups having started full or near full seasons:

2010 Kansas City starter Matt Cassell's 3rd and 4+ conversation rate: 41%

2015 Houston starter Brian Hoyer's 3rd and 4+ conversation rate: 36%

2016 Matt Barkley conversation rate on 3rd and 4+: 47%

So as you can see, stats support my analysis of Tannehill's underwhelming game. Tannehill depends on his running game to get him into manageable positions and then he takes calculated risks to his outside receivers. If this doesn't work, he fails flat because he can't move the chains on his own. Teams that win Superbowls have QBs that can do both: take calculated risks AND make the difficult 3rd down throws at a higher than 40% clip. All of Brady, Ryan, Rivers, even some backups do it. Tannehill doesn't and never will.

Trubisky, I think, can make the tough throws under pressure But then I never saw Tannehill play on the way out..was he a pocket passer?
The whole training camp debacle in 2015. And I'm not saying Tannehill is by any means a good QB, but he's still better than a lot of QB's in the league.
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sharpy


Joined: 12 Apr 2012
Posts: 550
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fournette is a friggin beast!
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Mr.O


Joined: 11 Jan 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrong thread but Joe Mixon is the best RB in this class, LeVeon Bell Clone
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thebeyonder


Joined: 30 Dec 2012
Posts: 790
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

barnaby8787 wrote:
thebeyonder wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
thebeyonder wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
rickyt31 wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Random question guys, if you HAD to take a QB at 6 and all three were available, who's your guy?



For me, I'm split on Watson & Mitch. I see more potential from Mitch. His tape doesn't show me anything that makes me believe he wouldn't make it as a starter. But Watson is carrying the same type of spark Cam Newton carried at Auburn. I'm looking for leadership skills in losing games to divide the two. I need to see a game where Mitch took a lot of hits and see how he bounced back.
That's where i'm at. To me, I see Ryan Tannehill in Mitch. Reminds me of a guy that's going to be a fringe top 15, MAYBE top 10 QB. I don't know what I see it Deshaun to be honest. Some have said McNabb, some had said Alex Smith. He throws way too many picks for my liking, but the guy is a big game QB that wins. I think i'd rather have Deshaun, but there's no clear cut one here. Either way, I don't want Deshone. The guy has upside which I get, but he's much riskier IMO.


I like Mitchell but don't like Tannehill. I don't remember Tannehill coming out but in my opinion, today's Tannehill isn't a good QB. He has pocket presence issues, misses reads, checks down too much to avoid mistakes, and is made to look better than by his line/receivers than is actually the case. Tannehill isn't a top 10 QB now (nor has he ever been). And for his playing style now, I don't see these Tannehill tendencies in North Carolina QB.

Relative to Tannehill, Trubisky has great qualities. He has good enough pocket presence, sees the field, can successfully use his legs to make time and makes good decisions without checking down too much. I like him more on tape than Watson but the Clemson QB does have a better pedigree. His feet seem faster and was holding back some of his ability last season because he didn't want to seem like a running QB.

Gun to my head I guess I choose Trubisky because he's more of a competent pocket passer when it comes to what matters. Watson has more "potential" though. He can be like a Russell Wilson.
Personally, I don't see as many issues with Tannehill's game. He is a bit of a headcase and Trubisky (to the best of our knowledge) isn't. A similar build, experience coming out, athleticism, and arm talent is what I see personally. The Watson/Wilson comp is interesting.


Tannehill is a headcase? How so? He seems to well-adjusted to me. Just overrated. To supplement my low opinion of Tannehill, I'll cite his 3rd down conversation rate. On 3 and 4+ (exluding 4th 10), Tannehill was 30% in terms of converting 3rd downs.

For comparison, I'm going to use random active backups having started full or near full seasons:

2010 Kansas City starter Matt Cassell's 3rd and 4+ conversation rate: 41%

2015 Houston starter Brian Hoyer's 3rd and 4+ conversation rate: 36%

2016 Matt Barkley conversation rate on 3rd and 4+: 47%

So as you can see, stats support my analysis of Tannehill's underwhelming game. Tannehill depends on his running game to get him into manageable positions and then he takes calculated risks to his outside receivers. If this doesn't work, he fails flat because he can't move the chains on his own. Teams that win Superbowls have QBs that can do both: take calculated risks AND make the difficult 3rd down throws at a higher than 40% clip. All of Brady, Ryan, Rivers, even some backups do it. Tannehill doesn't and never will.

Trubisky, I think, can make the tough throws under pressure But then I never saw Tannehill play on the way out..was he a pocket passer?
The whole training camp debacle in 2015. And I'm not saying Tannehill is by any means a good QB, but he's still better than a lot of QB's in the league.


Outside Dolphin fans, I can't point to anything or anyone who thinks Tannehill is really better than a alot of QBs in the league. He is a starter but has plenty of flaws. PFF ranked ranks Tannehill the 18th best QB in the league. Meanwhile ESPN's QBR QB ranks him 24. Perhaps most poignantly, the GMs and personnel people around the league who ranked him last year also put him at 24th best QB. So Tannehill before last season was considered a bottom 10 QB according to most GMs, personnel guys, etc in the league. Maybe the needle has moved on censensus about how bad Tannehill is, but I don't think so:

"I really want to move him up, but I just think Tannehill is a one-level thrower," an offensive coordinator said. "He can't arc and pace the ball. Adam will hide his deficiencies. Tannehill would get exposed other places. They will throw short, underneath stuff -- catch-and-carry plays. But if Tannehill went and played in vertical offense, it would be a train wreck."


The bolded is basically what I think of Tannehill. He's a bottom 10 QB according to most publications.
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doumeyer


Joined: 03 Jul 2013
Posts: 2208
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LB Reuben Foster, a potential top ten pick, was sent home from the combine after a heated argument with a hospital worker. Sounds like a guy to stay away from in the draft.
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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 10729
Location: Manhattan, NY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebeyonder wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
thebeyonder wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
thebeyonder wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
rickyt31 wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Random question guys, if you HAD to take a QB at 6 and all three were available, who's your guy?



For me, I'm split on Watson & Mitch. I see more potential from Mitch. His tape doesn't show me anything that makes me believe he wouldn't make it as a starter. But Watson is carrying the same type of spark Cam Newton carried at Auburn. I'm looking for leadership skills in losing games to divide the two. I need to see a game where Mitch took a lot of hits and see how he bounced back.
That's where i'm at. To me, I see Ryan Tannehill in Mitch. Reminds me of a guy that's going to be a fringe top 15, MAYBE top 10 QB. I don't know what I see it Deshaun to be honest. Some have said McNabb, some had said Alex Smith. He throws way too many picks for my liking, but the guy is a big game QB that wins. I think i'd rather have Deshaun, but there's no clear cut one here. Either way, I don't want Deshone. The guy has upside which I get, but he's much riskier IMO.


I like Mitchell but don't like Tannehill. I don't remember Tannehill coming out but in my opinion, today's Tannehill isn't a good QB. He has pocket presence issues, misses reads, checks down too much to avoid mistakes, and is made to look better than by his line/receivers than is actually the case. Tannehill isn't a top 10 QB now (nor has he ever been). And for his playing style now, I don't see these Tannehill tendencies in North Carolina QB.

Relative to Tannehill, Trubisky has great qualities. He has good enough pocket presence, sees the field, can successfully use his legs to make time and makes good decisions without checking down too much. I like him more on tape than Watson but the Clemson QB does have a better pedigree. His feet seem faster and was holding back some of his ability last season because he didn't want to seem like a running QB.

Gun to my head I guess I choose Trubisky because he's more of a competent pocket passer when it comes to what matters. Watson has more "potential" though. He can be like a Russell Wilson.
Personally, I don't see as many issues with Tannehill's game. He is a bit of a headcase and Trubisky (to the best of our knowledge) isn't. A similar build, experience coming out, athleticism, and arm talent is what I see personally. The Watson/Wilson comp is interesting.


Tannehill is a headcase? How so? He seems to well-adjusted to me. Just overrated. To supplement my low opinion of Tannehill, I'll cite his 3rd down conversation rate. On 3 and 4+ (exluding 4th 10), Tannehill was 30% in terms of converting 3rd downs.

For comparison, I'm going to use random active backups having started full or near full seasons:

2010 Kansas City starter Matt Cassell's 3rd and 4+ conversation rate: 41%

2015 Houston starter Brian Hoyer's 3rd and 4+ conversation rate: 36%

2016 Matt Barkley conversation rate on 3rd and 4+: 47%

So as you can see, stats support my analysis of Tannehill's underwhelming game. Tannehill depends on his running game to get him into manageable positions and then he takes calculated risks to his outside receivers. If this doesn't work, he fails flat because he can't move the chains on his own. Teams that win Superbowls have QBs that can do both: take calculated risks AND make the difficult 3rd down throws at a higher than 40% clip. All of Brady, Ryan, Rivers, even some backups do it. Tannehill doesn't and never will.

Trubisky, I think, can make the tough throws under pressure But then I never saw Tannehill play on the way out..was he a pocket passer?
The whole training camp debacle in 2015. And I'm not saying Tannehill is by any means a good QB, but he's still better than a lot of QB's in the league.


Outside Dolphin fans, I can't point to anything or anyone who thinks Tannehill is really better than a alot of QBs in the league. He is a starter but has plenty of flaws. PFF ranked ranks Tannehill the 18th best QB in the league. Meanwhile ESPN's QBR QB ranks him 24. Perhaps most poignantly, the GMs and personnel people around the league who ranked him last year also put him at 24th best QB. So Tannehill before last season was considered a bottom 10 QB according to most GMs, personnel guys, etc in the league. Maybe the needle has moved on censensus about how bad Tannehill is, but I don't think so:

"I really want to move him up, but I just think Tannehill is a one-level thrower," an offensive coordinator said. "He can't arc and pace the ball. Adam will hide his deficiencies. Tannehill would get exposed other places. They will throw short, underneath stuff -- catch-and-carry plays. But if Tannehill went and played in vertical offense, it would be a train wreck."


The bolded is basically what I think of Tannehill. He's a bottom 10 QB according to most publications.
I'm not selling the guy as a good QB, but he's an above average QB IMO. I think a lot would agree as well. His passer rating over the past 3 seasons puts him at a 91.6. Typically, a QB with a 91/92 passer rating is falling above league average. Over that span, he's thrown 70 TD's to 36 INT's. For comparison, Flacco has thrown 60 TD's to 34 INT's (and less yards), Carson Palmer has thrown 78 TD's to 43 INT's (also less yards than Ryan), Andy Dalton has 80 TD's, 49 INT's (and less yards), etc. I can list A LOT more. He prob has a top 12 or so QB/INT ratio or so over the past three years. Also, he's averaged 249 yards per game over his past three years. Also, above league average. Obviously, his advanced stats aren't the best as you point out, but his core stats so to speak, are typically above league average.
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famousj


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carl Lawson had me worried when he ran a 4.8 on his first run of the 40yd dash. He ran a 4.68 with 1.60 10yd split on his second run. Carl is definitely a player of interest for the Jets to draft. He just may have made the bottom of the 1st round with that run. Maccagnan needs to find a way to get as many picks as possible in this draft.

P.s. Did not mention 35reps on the bench at 6-2 , 261lbs.
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barnaby8787


Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

famousj wrote:
Carl Lawson had me worried when he ran a 4.8 on his first run of the 40yd dash. He ran a 4.68 with 1.60 10yd split on his second run. Carl is definitely a player of interest for the Jets to draft. He just may have made the bottom of the 1st round with that run. Maccagnan needs to find a way to get as many picks as possible in this draft.

P.s. Did not mention 35reps on the bench at 6-2 , 261lbs.
McKinley guaranteed a 4.4 40. Going to be really curious to see what he actually runs.
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rampantjet


Joined: 25 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

famousj wrote:
Carl Lawson had me worried when he ran a 4.8 on his first run of the 40yd dash. He ran a 4.68 with 1.60 10yd split on his second run. Carl is definitely a player of interest for the Jets to draft. He just may have made the bottom of the 1st round with that run. Maccagnan needs to find a way to get as many picks as possible in this draft.

P.s. Did not mention 35reps on the bench at 6-2 , 261lbs.


Ya good day for him, short arms though, that is his biggest ding. That also helps a ton with the bench, though obviously he is strong.
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famousj


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rampantjet wrote:
famousj wrote:
Carl Lawson had me worried when he ran a 4.8 on his first run of the 40yd dash. He ran a 4.68 with 1.60 10yd split on his second run. Carl is definitely a player of interest for the Jets to draft. He just may have made the bottom of the 1st round with that run. Maccagnan needs to find a way to get as many picks as possible in this draft.

P.s. Did not mention 35reps on the bench at 6-2 , 261lbs.


Ya good day for him, short arms though, that is his biggest ding. That also helps a ton with the bench, though obviously he is strong.


These players would say arm length means nothing as long as you get to the QB. ie. Elvis Dumervil, Clay Matthews, Dwight Freeney, and James Harrison
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rampantjet


Joined: 25 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

famousj wrote:
rampantjet wrote:
famousj wrote:
Carl Lawson had me worried when he ran a 4.8 on his first run of the 40yd dash. He ran a 4.68 with 1.60 10yd split on his second run. Carl is definitely a player of interest for the Jets to draft. He just may have made the bottom of the 1st round with that run. Maccagnan needs to find a way to get as many picks as possible in this draft.

P.s. Did not mention 35reps on the bench at 6-2 , 261lbs.


Ya good day for him, short arms though, that is his biggest ding. That also helps a ton with the bench, though obviously he is strong.


These players would say arm length means nothing as long as you get to the QB. ie. Elvis Dumervil, Clay Matthews, Dwight Freeney, and James Harrison


You can find exceptions to everything, but long arms certainly help. Those guys are good in spite of short arms. Clay is at 33", Elvis 32 3/4", Freeney 33". Carl Lawson is at 31 1/2" so he is a fair but below even those guys. I couldn't find an arm length for James Harrison but lets just agree he is oddly strong and is a crazy person like very few other people in the history of the league.
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barnaby8787


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reddick's a freak
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Mr.O


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't think Solomon Thomas would run a 4.7
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