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Left_Side!


Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 292
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:38 am    Post subject: What Draft Do You Prefer? Reply with quote

Hey everyone I did 3 drafts on Fanspeaks site. The site lets you pick one team and it simulates for the others. Below are my results, I am doing this for every team to try and learn their needs better. Please let me know what draft you like best and any selections you like/dislike. Thanks!

DRAFT A
Round 1: Leonard Fournette (RB) LSU
Round 2: Desmond King (S/CB) Iowa
Round 3: Cameron Sutton (CB) Tennessee
Round 4: J.J Dielman (OT) Utah
Round 5: Danny Isidora (G) Miami
Round 6: Ejuan Price (EDGE) Pitt
Round 7: Josh Tupou (DL) Colorado


DRAFT B
Round 1: Jonathan Allen (DL) Alabama
Round 2: Carl Lawson (EDGE) Auburn
Round 3: Quincy Wilson (CB) Florida
Round 4: Eddie Jackson (S) Alabama
Round 5: Conor McDermott (OT) UCLA
Round 6: Michael Roberts (TE) Toledo
Round 7: T.J Logan (RB) North


DRAFT C
Round 1: Jamal Adams (S) LSU
Round 2: Jarrad Davis (LB) Florida
Round 3: Evan Engram (TE) Ole Miss
Round 4: Zach Banner (G) USC
Round 5: Marquez White (CB) FSU
Round 6: Chad Kelly (QB) Ole Miss
Round 7: Justin Davis (RB) USC
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FreeDaJags


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one with Solomon Thomas in it.
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FreeDaJags wrote:
The one with Solomon Thomas in it.


Question because I don't understand the premium put on Linemen in the NFL. My opinion is that the NFL puts to big of a emphasis on DLine it is an important part of the game because you have to be stout on the Oline and Dline. But I never understood putting a huge premium of DLinemen especially DT. For example Houston played 14 games without JJ Watt yet the Texans were still rated the number 1 D in the NFL. I've had this argument with people for years even when Hayneworth broke the bank and got 100 mil from the Redskins. No one could justify to me how the hell you pay a man 100 mill that only plays 33% of the total game snaps that is outrageous. JJ Watt when healthy is without a shadow of a doubt the most dominate defensive player in the league. So how important is JJ Watt if they are still the number 1 without him? Better QB play i'm sure they make a better run.. but in terms of strictly defense could the Texans with better play at QB still have won a SB without him? Now on to Solomon Thomas even though he is no JJ Watt who knows he could be or then again maybe he isn't and even if he is what impact is that going to make in the broad scheme of things? Just curious of your opinion.
_________________
Who I wanted drafted vs Jags over the last 4 drafts
2014:Khalil Mack - Blake Bortles
2015:Amari Cooper - Dante Fowler
2016:Jalen Ramsey - Jalen Ramsey
2017:Solomon Thomas - Leonard Fournette
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.Buzz


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 3741
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
FreeDaJags wrote:
The one with Solomon Thomas in it.


Question because I don't understand the premium put on Linemen in the NFL. My opinion is that the NFL puts to big of a emphasis on DLine it is an important part of the game because you have to be stout on the Oline and Dline. But I never understood putting a huge premium of DLinemen especially DT. For example Houston played 14 games without JJ Watt yet the Texans were still rated the number 1 D in the NFL. I've had this argument with people for years even when Hayneworth broke the bank and got 100 mil from the Redskins. No one could justify to me how the hell you pay a man 100 mill that only plays 33% of the total game snaps that is outrageous. JJ Watt when healthy is without a shadow of a doubt the most dominate defensive player in the league. So how important is JJ Watt if they are still the number 1 without him? Better QB play i'm sure they make a better run.. but in terms of strictly defense could the Texans with better play at QB still have won a SB without him? Now on to Solomon Thomas even though he is no JJ Watt who knows he could be or then again maybe he isn't and even if he is what impact is that going to make in the broad scheme of things? Just curious of your opinion.


Soloman Thomas is a freak that can change the game...right there with Jonathan Allen. He most definitely should be in strong consideration at 4. The more I watch, the more I like.

Also, he can play everywhere on the DL. He'll move around. So I really have no idea where you're going here with this post.
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
FreeDaJags wrote:
The one with Solomon Thomas in it.


Question because I don't understand the premium put on Linemen in the NFL. My opinion is that the NFL puts to big of a emphasis on DLine it is an important part of the game because you have to be stout on the Oline and Dline. But I never understood putting a huge premium of DLinemen especially DT. For example Houston played 14 games without JJ Watt yet the Texans were still rated the number 1 D in the NFL. I've had this argument with people for years even when Hayneworth broke the bank and got 100 mil from the Redskins. No one could justify to me how the hell you pay a man 100 mill that only plays 33% of the total game snaps that is outrageous. JJ Watt when healthy is without a shadow of a doubt the most dominate defensive player in the league. So how important is JJ Watt if they are still the number 1 without him? Better QB play i'm sure they make a better run.. but in terms of strictly defense could the Texans with better play at QB still have won a SB without him? Now on to Solomon Thomas even though he is no JJ Watt who knows he could be or then again maybe he isn't and even if he is what impact is that going to make in the broad scheme of things? Just curious of your opinion.


Soloman Thomas is a freak that can change the game...right there with Jonathan Allen. He most definitely should be in strong consideration at 4. The more I watch, the more I like.

Also, he can play everywhere on the DL. He'll move around. So I really have no idea where you're going here with this post.


Its simple even if Solomon is dominate what impact is that going to have in wins and losses? If you take away JJ Watt from the Texans what was the total effect of the team did they decline? Or did they stay about the same? Seemed pretty direct.
_________________
Who I wanted drafted vs Jags over the last 4 drafts
2014:Khalil Mack - Blake Bortles
2015:Amari Cooper - Dante Fowler
2016:Jalen Ramsey - Jalen Ramsey
2017:Solomon Thomas - Leonard Fournette
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.Buzz


Joined: 16 Jul 2013
Posts: 3741
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
FreeDaJags wrote:
The one with Solomon Thomas in it.


Question because I don't understand the premium put on Linemen in the NFL. My opinion is that the NFL puts to big of a emphasis on DLine it is an important part of the game because you have to be stout on the Oline and Dline. But I never understood putting a huge premium of DLinemen especially DT. For example Houston played 14 games without JJ Watt yet the Texans were still rated the number 1 D in the NFL. I've had this argument with people for years even when Hayneworth broke the bank and got 100 mil from the Redskins. No one could justify to me how the hell you pay a man 100 mill that only plays 33% of the total game snaps that is outrageous. JJ Watt when healthy is without a shadow of a doubt the most dominate defensive player in the league. So how important is JJ Watt if they are still the number 1 without him? Better QB play i'm sure they make a better run.. but in terms of strictly defense could the Texans with better play at QB still have won a SB without him? Now on to Solomon Thomas even though he is no JJ Watt who knows he could be or then again maybe he isn't and even if he is what impact is that going to make in the broad scheme of things? Just curious of your opinion.


Soloman Thomas is a freak that can change the game...right there with Jonathan Allen. He most definitely should be in strong consideration at 4. The more I watch, the more I like.

Also, he can play everywhere on the DL. He'll move around. So I really have no idea where you're going here with this post.


Its simple even if Solomon is dominate what impact is that going to have in wins and losses? If you take away JJ Watt from the Texans what was the total effect of the team did they decline? Or did they stay about the same? Seemed pretty direct.


Solid QB play is what ultimately gets you wins or not. If you have solid QB play, you are going to win games.

Having an elite DL who can be a force defensively and cause disruption/turnovers helps take the pressure off the QB to win games by himself. No one knows how many wins one person will do. You could literally make this argument for any player position outside of QB.

Why pick Jalen Ramsey last year? He's a CB...he isn't going to makes us a 10-6 team instead of a 5-11 team...
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So as stated previously...I don't get the point of bringing that up/the question in general.
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
FreeDaJags wrote:
The one with Solomon Thomas in it.


Question because I don't understand the premium put on Linemen in the NFL. My opinion is that the NFL puts to big of a emphasis on DLine it is an important part of the game because you have to be stout on the Oline and Dline. But I never understood putting a huge premium of DLinemen especially DT. For example Houston played 14 games without JJ Watt yet the Texans were still rated the number 1 D in the NFL. I've had this argument with people for years even when Hayneworth broke the bank and got 100 mil from the Redskins. No one could justify to me how the hell you pay a man 100 mill that only plays 33% of the total game snaps that is outrageous. JJ Watt when healthy is without a shadow of a doubt the most dominate defensive player in the league. So how important is JJ Watt if they are still the number 1 without him? Better QB play i'm sure they make a better run.. but in terms of strictly defense could the Texans with better play at QB still have won a SB without him? Now on to Solomon Thomas even though he is no JJ Watt who knows he could be or then again maybe he isn't and even if he is what impact is that going to make in the broad scheme of things? Just curious of your opinion.


Soloman Thomas is a freak that can change the game...right there with Jonathan Allen. He most definitely should be in strong consideration at 4. The more I watch, the more I like.

Also, he can play everywhere on the DL. He'll move around. So I really have no idea where you're going here with this post.


Its simple even if Solomon is dominate what impact is that going to have in wins and losses? If you take away JJ Watt from the Texans what was the total effect of the team did they decline? Or did they stay about the same? Seemed pretty direct.


Solid QB play is what ultimately gets you wins or not. If you have solid QB play, you are going to win games.

Having an elite DL who can be a force defensively and cause disruption/turnovers helps take the pressure off the QB to win games by himself. No one knows how many wins one person will do. You could literally make this argument for any player position outside of QB.

Why pick Jalen Ramsey last year? He's a CB...he isn't going to win games for us...


You can argue Jalen almost single handedly won the last game he played against the Texans. Was that good enough for Ramsey to win the game? No, don't it misconstrued i'm not knocking ST he is a hell of a player. I'm just questioning regardless of how dominate he is from that position what effect is that going to have on this team. My argument is that pass rush and stout defensive play in the run game is important factor in the game. But what premium should be put on it? The Falcons and Patriots just proved you can win in this league without a dominant linemen (outside of maybe Vic Beasley who didn't even show up for the SB) on either defense. I think the Jags as constructed last year should have won 9 games last year with better QB play and coaching. I'm saying the ultimate success of this game is coaching game planning and getting the best out of the talent and finding talent that fits your system. What defensive player on either one of the super bowl teams would you say you would take over Ramsey right now? I'll wait.
_________________
Who I wanted drafted vs Jags over the last 4 drafts
2014:Khalil Mack - Blake Bortles
2015:Amari Cooper - Dante Fowler
2016:Jalen Ramsey - Jalen Ramsey
2017:Solomon Thomas - Leonard Fournette


Last edited by DuvalsKing on Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:45 am; edited 2 times in total
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
FreeDaJags wrote:
The one with Solomon Thomas in it.


Question because I don't understand the premium put on Linemen in the NFL. My opinion is that the NFL puts to big of a emphasis on DLine it is an important part of the game because you have to be stout on the Oline and Dline. But I never understood putting a huge premium of DLinemen especially DT. For example Houston played 14 games without JJ Watt yet the Texans were still rated the number 1 D in the NFL. I've had this argument with people for years even when Hayneworth broke the bank and got 100 mil from the Redskins. No one could justify to me how the hell you pay a man 100 mill that only plays 33% of the total game snaps that is outrageous. JJ Watt when healthy is without a shadow of a doubt the most dominate defensive player in the league. So how important is JJ Watt if they are still the number 1 without him? Better QB play i'm sure they make a better run.. but in terms of strictly defense could the Texans with better play at QB still have won a SB without him? Now on to Solomon Thomas even though he is no JJ Watt who knows he could be or then again maybe he isn't and even if he is what impact is that going to make in the broad scheme of things? Just curious of your opinion.


Soloman Thomas is a freak that can change the game...right there with Jonathan Allen. He most definitely should be in strong consideration at 4. The more I watch, the more I like.

Also, he can play everywhere on the DL. He'll move around. So I really have no idea where you're going here with this post.


Its simple even if Solomon is dominate what impact is that going to have in wins and losses? If you take away JJ Watt from the Texans what was the total effect of the team did they decline? Or did they stay about the same? Seemed pretty direct.


Solid QB play is what ultimately gets you wins or not. If you have solid QB play, you are going to win games.

Having an elite DL who can be a force defensively and cause disruption/turnovers helps take the pressure off the QB to win games by himself. No one knows how many wins one person will do. You could literally make this argument for any player position outside of QB.

Why pick Jalen Ramsey last year? He's a CB...he isn't going to win games for us...


You can argue Jalen almost single handedly won the last game he played against the Texans. Was that good enough no but i'm not knocking ST is a hell of a player. I'm just questioning regardless of how dominate he is from that position what effect is that going to have on this team. My argument is that pass rush and stout defensive play in the run game is important factor in the game. But what premium should be put on it? The Falcons and Patriots just proved you can win in this league without a dominant linemen on either defense. I think the Jags as constructed last year should have won 9 games last year with better QB play and coaching. I'm saying the ultimate success of this game is coaching game planning and getting the best out of the talent and finding talent o fit your system. What defensive player on either one of the super bowl teams would you say you would take over Ramsey right now? I'll wait.


What are you talking about? The Falcons have Grady Jarrett and Vic Beasley on that DL...one of which was one of the most prolific pass rushers in the game and the other is one of the better inside defensive linemen in football...

Pass rushes are vital for defensive and overall success, especially come playoff time. Teams continue to draft pass rushers year in and year out high in the draft for that exact reason.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the Patriots, they had Tom Brady, who is arguably the best to ever play the game at the most important position in football.

Last few years, Seattle? Great pass rush with Bennett/Avril and co. Denver? Von Miller, Malik Jackson, Ware. Indy back with Peyton? Leaned on Mathis/Freeney. NYG when TC was there? Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, etc.

Seriously, most everyone in the SB who don't have gods at the QB spot have prolific pass rushers/DL.
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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
As for the Patriots, they had Tom Brady, who is arguably the best to ever play the game at the most important position in football.

Last few years, Seattle? Great pass rush with Bennett/Avril and co. Denver? Von Miller, Malik Jackson, Ware. Indy back with Peyton? Leaned on Mathis/Freeney. NYG when TC was there? Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, etc.

Seriously, most everyone in the SB who don't have gods at the QB spot have prolific pass rushers/DL.


You pretty much answered my question by your response because you said you can win more games with better QB play right? As bad as the Jaguars looked last year they lost 10 games by a touchdown or less. You can't be serious outside of the SB where Jarrett had 3 sacks.. Grady Jarrett had 3 sacks the whole rest of the season. When has the Patriots had a feared pass rush? My point is neither one of those teams had and elite pass rushers outside of Denver with Von Miller. Seattle and NYGs (Please don't say Strahan he was on the downside of his career when he won he wasn't the dominate Strahan, Osi was cool and so was Tuck but were they blue chip top flight guys?)

With Seattle is Bennett, Avril and company headed to HOF or are they solid throughout the whole D only HOFs on that D maybe in the back end basically its just a group of guys who work well together as a cohesive unit. This team has developed 1 drafted edge rusher that was worth a damn in like 24 years and that was Brackens. Is that to say stop drafting edge all together? No. But as you said once upon a time you can find RBs late you can say the same for edge rushers. All i'm doing is debating where this team is right now. I'm starting to wonder if throwing another pick at Dline that may or may not pan out is a good idea. Especially when your QB is struggling and we have no semblance of a run game. To me if the QB is struggling you take some responsibility off his plate by implementing a better run game, depend on your core of what you already have in place and rely on developing whats already in house. If it was end of year 4 and no significant jump had been made for Fowler then dive back in the pool.
_________________
Who I wanted drafted vs Jags over the last 4 drafts
2014:Khalil Mack - Blake Bortles
2015:Amari Cooper - Dante Fowler
2016:Jalen Ramsey - Jalen Ramsey
2017:Solomon Thomas - Leonard Fournette


Last edited by DuvalsKing on Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:36 am; edited 3 times in total
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
As for the Patriots, they had Tom Brady, who is arguably the best to ever play the game at the most important position in football.

Last few years, Seattle? Great pass rush with Bennett/Avril and co. Denver? Von Miller, Malik Jackson, Ware. Indy back with Peyton? Leaned on Mathis/Freeney. NYG when TC was there? Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, etc.

Seriously, most everyone in the SB who don't have gods at the QB spot have prolific pass rushers/DL.


You pretty much answered my question by your response because you said you can win more games with better QB play right? As bad as the Jaguars looked last year they lost 10 games by a touchdown or less. You can't be serious outside of the SB where Jarret had 3 sacks.. Grady Jarrett had 3 sacks the whole rest of the season. When has the Patriots had a feared pass rush? My point is neither one of those teams had and elite pass rushers outside of Denver with Von Miller. Seattle and NYGs (Please don't say Strahan he was on the downside of his career when he won he wasn't the dominate Strahan, Osi was cool and so was Tuck but were they blue chip top 5 guys?)

With Seattle is Bennett, Avril and company headed to HOF or are they solid throughout the whole D only HOFs on that D maybe in the back end basically its just a group of guys who work well together as a cohesive unit. This team has developed 1 drafted edge rusher that was worth a damn and that was Brackens. Is that to say stop drafting edge all together? No. But as you said once upon a time you can find RBs late you can say the same for edge rushers. All i'm doing is debating where this team is right now. I'm starting to wonder if throwing another pick at Dline that may or may not pan out is a good idea. Especially when your QB is struggling and we have no semblance of a run game. To me if the QB is struggling you take some responsibility off his plate by implementing a better run game.



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DuvalsKing


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
As for the Patriots, they had Tom Brady, who is arguably the best to ever play the game at the most important position in football.

Last few years, Seattle? Great pass rush with Bennett/Avril and co. Denver? Von Miller, Malik Jackson, Ware. Indy back with Peyton? Leaned on Mathis/Freeney. NYG when TC was there? Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, etc.

Seriously, most everyone in the SB who don't have gods at the QB spot have prolific pass rushers/DL.


You pretty much answered my question by your response because you said you can win more games with better QB play right? As bad as the Jaguars looked last year they lost 10 games by a touchdown or less. You can't be serious outside of the SB where Jarrett had 3 sacks.. Grady Jarrett had 3 sacks the whole rest of the season. When has the Patriots had a feared pass rush? My point is neither one of those teams had and elite pass rushers outside of Denver with Von Miller. Seattle and NYGs (Please don't say Strahan he was on the downside of his career when he won he wasn't the dominate Strahan, Osi was cool and so was Tuck but were they blue chip top 5 guys?)

With Seattle is Bennett, Avril and company headed to HOF or are they solid throughout the whole D only HOFs on that D maybe in the back end basically its just a group of guys who work well together as a cohesive unit. This team has developed 1 drafted edge rusher that was worth a damn and that was Brackens. Is that to say stop drafting edge all together? No. But as you said once upon a time you can find RBs late you can say the same for edge rushers. All i'm doing is debating where this team is right now. I'm starting to wonder if throwing another pick at Dline that may or may not pan out is a good idea. Especially when your QB is struggling and we have no semblance of a run game. To me if the QB is struggling you take some responsibility off his plate by implementing a better run game.




The puzzled look? This isn't rocket science.

I'm not for turning back around 2 years after drafting a top 5 d-lineman. Especially when you have a top 5 d-lineman who could potentially stunt the growth of what you have already. Who is going to be the every game starters? And do I potentially have either ST or Fowler who can't get on the field at the same time as potential top 5 picks with 1 getting limited snaps. Like I said when we drafted Fowler, you don't draft projects as top 5 picks you better make sure he is on the field majority of the snaps if he is top 10 or else to me thats a wasted pick if he isn't playing majority of the snaps for whatever side of ball he is playing on. Yannick, Jackson, Solomon, Fowler, Miller or Arby, can not all go at the same time. Seems to me based on production Fowler would be a top 5 draft pick who now becomes a rotational player. Yeah that sounds ultra productive.

1.) I think by drafting Solomon Thomas, you are re-drafting Fowlers spot when when you possibly hit on Yannick and you don't quite know what you have in Fowler.(if Fowler was in the fourth year of his rookie contract with poor production I'd pull the trigger on Solomon Thomas or any D-lineman that I thought was going to help me going forward.)

2.) Even if Solomon Thomas was a full time starter he would play 35-60% of the full game snaps is that exactly the production that you want from a full game starter who is a number 4 overall pick? Not to mention if you get Solomon Thomas and he gets to camp and he becomes a rotational player year 1 is that number of snaps worth a number 4 overall selection?

3.) This team needs players that are going to help immediately.. I just don't see being helped out by a guy who could potentially come in and get you 5 sacks year 1. (Because a lot of people are on the assumption on this site that well you know rookie d-lineman tend to develop slowly give him time when I said I expected 8 sacks from Fowler year one as a number 3 overall pick people scoffed at me. Yet Yannick gets 8 his rookie season as a 3rd rounder and a year later Bosa gets 10.5 and misses the first 3 or 4 games of the season.) If you think Solomon Thomas is going to be GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip straight out the box go ahead and take him. If you are not sure what production you'll get you better leave him on the board for another team to select.
_________________
Who I wanted drafted vs Jags over the last 4 drafts
2014:Khalil Mack - Blake Bortles
2015:Amari Cooper - Dante Fowler
2016:Jalen Ramsey - Jalen Ramsey
2017:Solomon Thomas - Leonard Fournette
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DuvalsKing wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
As for the Patriots, they had Tom Brady, who is arguably the best to ever play the game at the most important position in football.

Last few years, Seattle? Great pass rush with Bennett/Avril and co. Denver? Von Miller, Malik Jackson, Ware. Indy back with Peyton? Leaned on Mathis/Freeney. NYG when TC was there? Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, etc.

Seriously, most everyone in the SB who don't have gods at the QB spot have prolific pass rushers/DL.


You pretty much answered my question by your response because you said you can win more games with better QB play right? As bad as the Jaguars looked last year they lost 10 games by a touchdown or less. You can't be serious outside of the SB where Jarrett had 3 sacks.. Grady Jarrett had 3 sacks the whole rest of the season. When has the Patriots had a feared pass rush? My point is neither one of those teams had and elite pass rushers outside of Denver with Von Miller. Seattle and NYGs (Please don't say Strahan he was on the downside of his career when he won he wasn't the dominate Strahan, Osi was cool and so was Tuck but were they blue chip top 5 guys?)

With Seattle is Bennett, Avril and company headed to HOF or are they solid throughout the whole D only HOFs on that D maybe in the back end basically its just a group of guys who work well together as a cohesive unit. This team has developed 1 drafted edge rusher that was worth a damn and that was Brackens. Is that to say stop drafting edge all together? No. But as you said once upon a time you can find RBs late you can say the same for edge rushers. All i'm doing is debating where this team is right now. I'm starting to wonder if throwing another pick at Dline that may or may not pan out is a good idea. Especially when your QB is struggling and we have no semblance of a run game. To me if the QB is struggling you take some responsibility off his plate by implementing a better run game.




The puzzled look? This isn't rocket science.

I'm not for turning back around 2 years after drafting a top 5 d-lineman. Especially when you have a top 5 d-lineman who could potentially stunt the growth of what you have already. Who is going to be the every game starters? And do I potentially have either ST or Fowler who can't get on the field at the same time as potential top 5 picks with 1 getting limited snaps. Like I said when we drafted Fowler, you don't draft projects as top 5 picks you better make sure he is on the field majority of the snaps if he is top 10 or else to me thats a wasted pick if he isn't playing majority of the snaps for whatever side of ball he is playing on. Yannick, Jackson, Solomon, Fowler, Miller or Arby, can not all go at the same time. Seems to me based on production Fowler would be a top 5 draft pick who now becomes a rotational player. Yeah that sounds ultra productive.

1.) I think by drafting Solomon Thomas, you are re-drafting Fowlers spot when when you possibly hit on Yannick and you don't quite know what you have in Fowler.(if Fowler was in the fourth year of his rookie contract with poor production I'd pull the trigger on Solomon Thomas or any D-lineman that I thought was going to help me going forward.)

2.) Even if Solomon Thomas was a full time starter he would play 35-60% of the full game snaps is that exactly the production that you want from a full game starter who is a number 4 overall pick? Not to mention if you get Solomon Thomas and he gets to camp and he becomes a rotational player year 1 is that number of snaps worth a number 4 overall selection?

3.) This team needs players that are going to help immediately.. I just don't see being helped out by a guy who could potentially come in and get you 5 sacks year 1. (Because a lot of people are on the assumption on this site that well you know rookie d-lineman tend to develop slowly give him time when I said I expected 8 sacks from Fowler year one as a number 3 overall pick people scoffed at me. Yet Yannick gets 8 his rookie season as a 3rd rounder and a year later Bosa gets 10.5 and misses the first 3 or 4 games of the season.) If you think Solomon Thomas is going to be GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip straight out the box go ahead and take him. If you are not sure what production you'll get you better leave him on the board for another team to select.


I know what your'e saying bud. I can comprehend. I'm puzzled because I think it s a very off base thought process...and your argument that because the Pats won a superbowl without an elite pass rusher you don't think we need to worry about it. I think thats hilarious.

The Patriots have the GOAT at QB.

Then we get to the "We drafted Fowler high a couple years ago, so we can't draft another edge/DL top 5" is also insane. You did watch our pass rush this last year right? If we pass on a potential elite pass rusher (which is one of the most important things to have in the NFL) because we want to be stubborn on forcing as many snaps for Fowler as we can would be the worst case scenario for us. Fowler was raw as hell last year and had huge troubles rushing the passer from the edge spot. If we want to count on him this year to be constant disruption after what we just saw we're in trouble. It's time to start getting some wins, not just hoping for the best for some players. That was a problem last year, so you throw as many resources as you can at it and hope it gets fixed. Without a much improved pass rush, this defense isn't getting anywhere.

IDC about Fowler, IDC about Yannick, IDC if the guy doesn't get 10 sacks his first year, I care about getting the best guy available. You want to stack the trenches and have an elite pass rush on defense. An elite pass rush makes everyone else better and turns a good defense into a great defense. This team is a team that has a top 4 pick, I'm not expecting superbowl next year. I want to see this team improving and gaining the best assets moving forward. Soloman Thomas is and should be in consideration at #4 because he has a chance to be an elite player.

You look at any of the most recent SB teams outside of NE and who doesn't have a great pass rush? We have nothing close to that right now. Keep drafting guys you think will be damn good and who the hell cares where they fit. We aren't a team that has the luxury to just go for need right now. Dante Fowler sure as hell shouldn't be stopping us from taking a guy like Thomas/Allen/Garrett/Barnett etc. after what he just did as a rookie. I like the guy and still believe in him, but there's no way I'm passing on an elite talent because of Dante Fowler. You need more than 2 edge rushers regardless. Having guys that don't play all the time is a good thing, especially on the DL as they are more fresh.
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DuvalsKing


Joined: 15 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
DuvalsKing wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
As for the Patriots, they had Tom Brady, who is arguably the best to ever play the game at the most important position in football.

Last few years, Seattle? Great pass rush with Bennett/Avril and co. Denver? Von Miller, Malik Jackson, Ware. Indy back with Peyton? Leaned on Mathis/Freeney. NYG when TC was there? Michael Strahan, Justin Tuck, etc.

Seriously, most everyone in the SB who don't have gods at the QB spot have prolific pass rushers/DL.


You pretty much answered my question by your response because you said you can win more games with better QB play right? As bad as the Jaguars looked last year they lost 10 games by a touchdown or less. You can't be serious outside of the SB where Jarrett had 3 sacks.. Grady Jarrett had 3 sacks the whole rest of the season. When has the Patriots had a feared pass rush? My point is neither one of those teams had and elite pass rushers outside of Denver with Von Miller. Seattle and NYGs (Please don't say Strahan he was on the downside of his career when he won he wasn't the dominate Strahan, Osi was cool and so was Tuck but were they blue chip top 5 guys?)

With Seattle is Bennett, Avril and company headed to HOF or are they solid throughout the whole D only HOFs on that D maybe in the back end basically its just a group of guys who work well together as a cohesive unit. This team has developed 1 drafted edge rusher that was worth a damn and that was Brackens. Is that to say stop drafting edge all together? No. But as you said once upon a time you can find RBs late you can say the same for edge rushers. All i'm doing is debating where this team is right now. I'm starting to wonder if throwing another pick at Dline that may or may not pan out is a good idea. Especially when your QB is struggling and we have no semblance of a run game. To me if the QB is struggling you take some responsibility off his plate by implementing a better run game.




The puzzled look? This isn't rocket science.

I'm not for turning back around 2 years after drafting a top 5 d-lineman. Especially when you have a top 5 d-lineman who could potentially stunt the growth of what you have already. Who is going to be the every game starters? And do I potentially have either ST or Fowler who can't get on the field at the same time as potential top 5 picks with 1 getting limited snaps. Like I said when we drafted Fowler, you don't draft projects as top 5 picks you better make sure he is on the field majority of the snaps if he is top 10 or else to me thats a wasted pick if he isn't playing majority of the snaps for whatever side of ball he is playing on. Yannick, Jackson, Solomon, Fowler, Miller or Arby, can not all go at the same time. Seems to me based on production Fowler would be a top 5 draft pick who now becomes a rotational player. Yeah that sounds ultra productive.

1.) I think by drafting Solomon Thomas, you are re-drafting Fowlers spot when when you possibly hit on Yannick and you don't quite know what you have in Fowler.(if Fowler was in the fourth year of his rookie contract with poor production I'd pull the trigger on Solomon Thomas or any D-lineman that I thought was going to help me going forward.)

2.) Even if Solomon Thomas was a full time starter he would play 35-60% of the full game snaps is that exactly the production that you want from a full game starter who is a number 4 overall pick? Not to mention if you get Solomon Thomas and he gets to camp and he becomes a rotational player year 1 is that number of snaps worth a number 4 overall selection?

3.) This team needs players that are going to help immediately.. I just don't see being helped out by a guy who could potentially come in and get you 5 sacks year 1. (Because a lot of people are on the assumption on this site that well you know rookie d-lineman tend to develop slowly give him time when I said I expected 8 sacks from Fowler year one as a number 3 overall pick people scoffed at me. Yet Yannick gets 8 his rookie season as a 3rd rounder and a year later Bosa gets 10.5 and misses the first 3 or 4 games of the season.) If you think Solomon Thomas is going to be GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip straight out the box go ahead and take him. If you are not sure what production you'll get you better leave him on the board for another team to select.


I know what your'e saying bud. I can comprehend. I'm puzzled because I think it s a very off base thought process...and your argument that because the Pats won a superbowl without an elite pass rusher you don't think we need to worry about it. I think thats hilarious.

The Patriots have the GOAT at QB.

IDC about Fowler, IDC about Yannick, IDC if the guy doesn't get 10 sacks his first year, I care about getting the best guy available. You want to stack the trenches and have an elite pass rush on defense. An elite pass rush makes everyone else better and turns a good defense into a great defense. This team is a team that has a top 4 pick, I'm not expecting superbowl next year. I want to see this team improving and gaining the best assets moving forward. Soloman Thomas is and should be in consideration at #4 because he has a chance to be an elite player.

You look at any of the most recent SB teams outside of NE and who doesn't have a great pass rush? We have nothing close to that right now. Keep drafting guys you think will be damn good and who the hell cares where they fit. We aren't a team that has the luxury to just go for need right now. Dante Fowler sure as hell shouldn't be stopping us from taking a guy like Thomas/Allen/Garrett/Barnett etc. after what he just did as a rookie. I like the guy and still believe in him, but there's no way I'm passing on an elite talent because of Dante Fowler. You need more than 2 edge rushers regardless. Having guys that don't play all the time is a good thing, especially on the DL as they are more fresh.



You may not be concerned with Yannick, Fowler, or whomever else the Jags draft.. and thats fine but trust me when I tell you Mr. Khan has a clock ticking and i'm sure he has put the people entrusted of rebuilding this squad that it better be fixed ASAP. While you can wait on the development of a guy i'm pretty sure Khan laid out that its time to go now. Patriots out of the equation how many of the teams that made the playoff had a defense that you fear?

Kansas City (decent do you fear this defense?.. NO!)
Pittsburgh (Hell no)
Houston (Best defense in the league you play them 2x a year do you fear them?)
Oakland (Please)
Miami (Nope)
Dallas (Hell no)
Atlanta (No)
Seattle (The defense was not healthy)
Green Bay (They are trash on D)
N.Y. Giants (They are decent but not great)
Detroit (Uh.. no)

There is no defenses in the league as currently constructed outside of a few exceptions that have the ability to be elite? Not many its not even about whether the Pats won with pass rush or not. Would I like an all time 2002 Ravens D built yes but those defenses are hard to build with the cap going up and teams having the ability to spend. Personally from what I gathered I would take Solomon over Allen for one he has no history of injury that i'm aware of and I feel as though Solomon is athletically better and he will probably check all the boxes in terms of height, arm length,.. shuttle times and the whole 9.

Allen seems to be a less athletic version of Malik Jackson who has no true place on a line other then 3 tech or maybe a run stuffing strong side DE. I like ST and his skill set because I feel he can play every position on a 43 line. Only thing I was questioning was the premium put on the position is it really worth the selection in the top 5 versus the numerous holes this team has to fill when you just drafted a D-lineman in the top of the draft not even a full 3 years ago when clearly listed above no team that made the playoffs had a elite d-line. Do they have players that are elite on a line. Yes but its possible to win in this league without building an all time defense. I probably would have drafted Khalil and Leonard Williams in back to back years. I was high on Williams because of his size and skill set and believed he was a generational talent that couldn't be passed over and I also liked Cooper in his draft and felt since Odrick was signed that Cooper would be a better fit. I wish we could have stock piled large amounts of defensive talent to make a dominating defense. But then I stepped back and looked at the league. You can win without a dominating D we have to pick up the play of offense around Bortles and play well, play at the same level in which we played this past season while improving in areas like turnovers and 3rd down conversion and this team will be ok. We can't have a year where the defense plays well and then the offense is trash every year over the past several years its been vice versa. They all need to play at a respectable level for the duration of a season and this team will be at least a 9 win team minimum. No need to worry Solomon Thomas won't be there at 4. I expect the 49ers to draft him at 2 because of the Stanford connection and Lynch being GM.
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Who I wanted drafted vs Jags over the last 4 drafts
2014:Khalil Mack - Blake Bortles
2015:Amari Cooper - Dante Fowler
2016:Jalen Ramsey - Jalen Ramsey
2017:Solomon Thomas - Leonard Fournette


Last edited by DuvalsKing on Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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