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Who would you rather have Derek Carr or Jameis Winston?
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Pick QB To Start a franchise
Jameis Winston
14%
 14%  [ 14 ]
Derek Carr
85%
 85%  [ 82 ]
Total Votes : 96

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thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 3182
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carr had 7 4th quarter comebacks last year in 15 games and 7 game winning drives what a qb does in crunch time is what counts the most. Thats why,the last,drive and 3rd downs are known as the money downs. That's why Aaron Rodgers from the eye test is the best I've seen.

That's why I want Paxton Lynch to win the Broncos starting qb spot.

That's why Dak Presscott won rookie of the year over Elliot.

Carr all day.
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Nzd07


Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 4005
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:
Carr had 7 4th quarter comebacks last year in 15 games and 7 game winning drives what a qb does in crunch time is what counts the most. Thats why,the last,drive and 3rd downs are known as the money downs. That's why Aaron Rodgers from the eye test is the best I've seen.

That's why I want Paxton Lynch to win the Broncos starting qb spot.

That's why Dak Presscott won rookie of the year over Elliot.

Carr all day.


That's a pretty dumb way of evaluating QBs because you're giving good QBs with good defenses a disadvantage because they don't have the ability to comeback because they put the team away early.
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BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 5255
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nzd07 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Carr had 7 4th quarter comebacks last year in 15 games and 7 game winning drives what a qb does in crunch time is what counts the most. Thats why,the last,drive and 3rd downs are known as the money downs. That's why Aaron Rodgers from the eye test is the best I've seen.

That's why I want Paxton Lynch to win the Broncos starting qb spot.

That's why Dak Presscott won rookie of the year over Elliot.

Carr all day.


That's a pretty dumb way of evaluating QBs because you're giving good QBs with good defenses a disadvantage because they don't have the ability to comeback because they put the team away early.


I agree it's hard to compare unless Winston gets the same opportunities. Although I really hate when people act like 4th QTR comebacks mean nothing. It's absolutely a crucial trait for a QB. Being clutch is a real thing and something you must have as an NFL QB. Carr absolutely has it.

I think I posted in this thread way back when it started. I think Winston has slightly more potential than Carr but I don't think he ever surpasses Carr. I think both are gonna be Top 5 QB's in the NFL at some point especially when Brady and Brees retire. I absolutely love Winstons game and how he plays. Dude is probably my favorite QB to watch outside of Carr and Rodgers.
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JBURGE25


Joined: 25 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaidersAreOne wrote:
Both will be top 5 QB's for the next decade imo.
Yupp. In 5 years we are probably looking at Carr, Jameis, Luck, Wilson, and Mariota to round out the top 5. Obviously others like Wentz, Dak, Goff etc have a shot.
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tannenballs


Joined: 25 Sep 2014
Posts: 3813
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starless wrote:
I'd rather not have to root for a guy with Jameis'... um... "history."


10/10 good post would read again
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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 63655
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JBURGE25 wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
Both will be top 5 QB's for the next decade imo.
Yupp. In 5 years we are probably looking at Carr, Jameis, Luck, Wilson, and Mariota to round out the top 5. Obviously others like Wentz, Dak, Goff etc have a shot.


I guarantee in 5 years, there will be 2 or 3 QBs in the top 5 that either arent in the league yet or that no one really expects at this point.

I wont deny that guys like Jameis and Mariota could very well be in the top 5, I wont be INCREDIBLY shocked if neither are top 10 either. Both have a long ways to go before being consistent top 5 QBs. I cant see either being worse than solid going forward, but I dont think either are locks to be consistently top 5 going forward....at least not at this point.

I dont think it will be like it was with Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees holding down 4 of the top 5 spots for 7-8 years. I think there could be 2 or 3 QBs that are consistently top 5, and then after that, several who kind of jump in and out of being top 5, kind of like how Rivers, Big Ben and Romo fought for the 5th spot for numerous years.
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thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 3182
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nzd07 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Carr had 7 4th quarter comebacks last year in 15 games and 7 game winning drives what a qb does in crunch time is what counts the most. Thats why,the last,drive and 3rd downs are known as the money downs. That's why Aaron Rodgers from the eye test is the best I've seen.

That's why I want Paxton Lynch to win the Broncos starting qb spot.

That's why Dak Presscott won rookie of the year over Elliot.

Carr all day.


That's a pretty dumb way of evaluating QBs because you're giving good QBs with good defenses a disadvantage because they don't have the ability to comeback because they put the team away early.


when arguing a guy like luck or Brees who have virtually no defense I'd tend to agree but the raiders and Bucs were within 3 of each other in defensive rankings so it does indeed have merit.

You can argue that Winston had inferior weapons to Carr and that's why they went out and got a D Jax amd drafted playmakers in the draft like Oj Howard but to say that has no merit just wouldn't be right. In the grand scheme of things I'd lean towards Carr.
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YoungBucs15


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 4180
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nzd07 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Carr had 7 4th quarter comebacks last year in 15 games and 7 game winning drives what a qb does in crunch time is what counts the most. Thats why,the last,drive and 3rd downs are known as the money downs. That's why Aaron Rodgers from the eye test is the best I've seen.

That's why I want Paxton Lynch to win the Broncos starting qb spot.

That's why Dak Presscott won rookie of the year over Elliot.

Carr all day.


That's a pretty dumb way of evaluating QBs because you're giving good QBs with good defenses a disadvantage because they don't have the ability to comeback because they put the team away early.


By this logic we should've kept Josh Freeman who had 9 comebacks, 5 in 13 games and 10 game winning drives in his short career here.
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BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 5255
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YoungBucs15 wrote:
Nzd07 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Carr had 7 4th quarter comebacks last year in 15 games and 7 game winning drives what a qb does in crunch time is what counts the most. Thats why,the last,drive and 3rd downs are known as the money downs. That's why Aaron Rodgers from the eye test is the best I've seen.

That's why I want Paxton Lynch to win the Broncos starting qb spot.

That's why Dak Presscott won rookie of the year over Elliot.

Carr all day.


That's a pretty dumb way of evaluating QBs because you're giving good QBs with good defenses a disadvantage because they don't have the ability to comeback because they put the team away early.


By this logic we should've kept Josh Freeman who had 9 comebacks, 5 in 13 games and 10 game winning drives in his short career here.


Obviously we're not saying just look at that, just that it's a good trait to have. If the Raiders are down 15 points with 7 minutes left, no doubt in my mind Carr's gonna make it come down to the wire.
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Nzd07


Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 4005
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:
Nzd07 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Carr had 7 4th quarter comebacks last year in 15 games and 7 game winning drives what a qb does in crunch time is what counts the most. Thats why,the last,drive and 3rd downs are known as the money downs. That's why Aaron Rodgers from the eye test is the best I've seen.

That's why I want Paxton Lynch to win the Broncos starting qb spot.

That's why Dak Presscott won rookie of the year over Elliot.

Carr all day.


That's a pretty dumb way of evaluating QBs because you're giving good QBs with good defenses a disadvantage because they don't have the ability to comeback because they put the team away early.


when arguing a guy like luck or Brees who have virtually no defense I'd tend to agree but the raiders and Bucs were within 3 of each other in defensive rankings so it does indeed have merit.

You can argue that Winston had inferior weapons to Carr and that's why they went out and got a D Jax amd drafted playmakers in the draft like Oj Howard but to say that has no merit just wouldn't be right. In the grand scheme of things I'd lean towards Carr.


I didn't say it has no merit but it's not a statistic I'd value very highly, PERSONALLY. Just like QB wins, you're giving one player the credit for the entire TEAM coming back and winning the game. What if Jameis is on the verge of a comeback, but one of his linemen blows an assignment for a strip sack? Or what if a receiver runs the wrong route? You can't fault one player for a lack of comeback wins. There's just way too many variables that go into an NFL game to consider the final outcome a judgement on a single player.

That said, "game managers" do still exist. There will always be guys like Smith, Bradford, etc. who are too scared of throwing an INT that they'll leave yards on the field in comeback situations. I think it's safe to say neither of these 2 QBs would be scared to open things up when down.

Despite all of this, I actually agree that Carr is the better QB. But that's mainly because he's more efficient (although he does have the superior supporting cast,) and I also think Jameis is a bit too wreckless at times and can try to force things when under pressure.
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FourThreeMafia wrote:
JBURGE25 wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
Both will be top 5 QB's for the next decade imo.
Yupp. In 5 years we are probably looking at Carr, Jameis, Luck, Wilson, and Mariota to round out the top 5. Obviously others like Wentz, Dak, Goff etc have a shot.


I guarantee in 5 years, there will be 2 or 3 QBs in the top 5 that either arent in the league yet or that no one really expects at this point.

I wont deny that guys like Jameis and Mariota could very well be in the top 5, I wont be INCREDIBLY shocked if neither are top 10 either. Both have a long ways to go before being consistent top 5 QBs. I cant see either being worse than solid going forward, but I dont think either are locks to be consistently top 5 going forward....at least not at this point.

I dont think it will be like it was with Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees holding down 4 of the top 5 spots for 7-8 years. I think there could be 2 or 3 QBs that are consistently top 5, and then after that, several who kind of jump in and out of being top 5, kind of like how Rivers, Big Ben and Romo fought for the 5th spot for numerous years.


At this point I'd comfortably take stafford over jameis+mariota.
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Danand wrote:
Carr is 22-25,no playoff games, I'd take Flacco over him.To me it seems like Flacco is just where he belongs. Behind the Brady, Roethlisberger,Rivers,Rodgers,Wilson and ahead of Carr,Tannehill,Cousins,Palmer,Dalton,Luck
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El ramster


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 64033
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
FourThreeMafia wrote:
JBURGE25 wrote:
RaidersAreOne wrote:
Both will be top 5 QB's for the next decade imo.
Yupp. In 5 years we are probably looking at Carr, Jameis, Luck, Wilson, and Mariota to round out the top 5. Obviously others like Wentz, Dak, Goff etc have a shot.


I guarantee in 5 years, there will be 2 or 3 QBs in the top 5 that either arent in the league yet or that no one really expects at this point.

I wont deny that guys like Jameis and Mariota could very well be in the top 5, I wont be INCREDIBLY shocked if neither are top 10 either. Both have a long ways to go before being consistent top 5 QBs. I cant see either being worse than solid going forward, but I dont think either are locks to be consistently top 5 going forward....at least not at this point.

I dont think it will be like it was with Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees holding down 4 of the top 5 spots for 7-8 years. I think there could be 2 or 3 QBs that are consistently top 5, and then after that, several who kind of jump in and out of being top 5, kind of like how Rivers, Big Ben and Romo fought for the 5th spot for numerous years.


At this point I'd comfortably take stafford over jameis+mariota.


And right now you'll be 100% right.
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bucsfan333


Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 38534
Location: the mitten
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YoungBucs15 wrote:
Nzd07 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Carr had 7 4th quarter comebacks last year in 15 games and 7 game winning drives what a qb does in crunch time is what counts the most. Thats why,the last,drive and 3rd downs are known as the money downs. That's why Aaron Rodgers from the eye test is the best I've seen.

That's why I want Paxton Lynch to win the Broncos starting qb spot.

That's why Dak Presscott won rookie of the year over Elliot.

Carr all day.


That's a pretty dumb way of evaluating QBs because you're giving good QBs with good defenses a disadvantage because they don't have the ability to comeback because they put the team away early.


By this logic we should've kept Josh Freeman who had 9 comebacks, 5 in 13 games and 10 game winning drives in his short career here.

We lead the league in third down conversion percentage and had the fewest third and ones. Does that count for anything?
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MrOaktown_56


Joined: 15 Dec 2013
Posts: 8099
PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nzd07 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Nzd07 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Carr had 7 4th quarter comebacks last year in 15 games and 7 game winning drives what a qb does in crunch time is what counts the most. Thats why,the last,drive and 3rd downs are known as the money downs. That's why Aaron Rodgers from the eye test is the best I've seen.

That's why I want Paxton Lynch to win the Broncos starting qb spot.

That's why Dak Presscott won rookie of the year over Elliot.

Carr all day.


That's a pretty dumb way of evaluating QBs because you're giving good QBs with good defenses a disadvantage because they don't have the ability to comeback because they put the team away early.


when arguing a guy like luck or Brees who have virtually no defense I'd tend to agree but the raiders and Bucs were within 3 of each other in defensive rankings so it does indeed have merit.

You can argue that Winston had inferior weapons to Carr and that's why they went out and got a D Jax amd drafted playmakers in the draft like Oj Howard but to say that has no merit just wouldn't be right. In the grand scheme of things I'd lean towards Carr.


I didn't say it has no merit but it's not a statistic I'd value very highly, PERSONALLY. Just like QB wins, you're giving one player the credit for the entire TEAM coming back and winning the game. What if Jameis is on the verge of a comeback, but one of his linemen blows an assignment for a strip sack? Or what if a receiver runs the wrong route? You can't fault one player for a lack of comeback wins. There's just way too many variables that go into an NFL game to consider the final outcome a judgement on a single player.

That said, "game managers" do still exist. There will always be guys like Smith, Bradford, etc. who are too scared of throwing an INT that they'll leave yards on the field in comeback situations. I think it's safe to say neither of these 2 QBs would be scared to open things up when down.

Despite all of this, I actually agree that Carr is the better QB. But that's mainly because he's more efficient (although he does have the superior supporting cast,) and I also think Jameis is a bit too wreckless at times and can try to force things when under pressure.


"More efficient"? There's more to it than you let on:

He's a better decision maker when it comes to keeping the ball safe. He has more arm talent and his deep ball is one of the best in the league. I highly doubt anyone will debate any of that.
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Danand wrote:
Carr is 22-25,no playoff games, I'd take Flacco over him.To me it seems like Flacco is just where he belongs. Behind the Brady, Roethlisberger,Rivers,Rodgers,Wilson and ahead of Carr,Tannehill,Cousins,Palmer,Dalton,Luck
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Nzd07


Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 4005
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrOaktown_56 wrote:
Nzd07 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Nzd07 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
Carr had 7 4th quarter comebacks last year in 15 games and 7 game winning drives what a qb does in crunch time is what counts the most. Thats why,the last,drive and 3rd downs are known as the money downs. That's why Aaron Rodgers from the eye test is the best I've seen.

That's why I want Paxton Lynch to win the Broncos starting qb spot.

That's why Dak Presscott won rookie of the year over Elliot.

Carr all day.


That's a pretty dumb way of evaluating QBs because you're giving good QBs with good defenses a disadvantage because they don't have the ability to comeback because they put the team away early.


when arguing a guy like luck or Brees who have virtually no defense I'd tend to agree but the raiders and Bucs were within 3 of each other in defensive rankings so it does indeed have merit.

You can argue that Winston had inferior weapons to Carr and that's why they went out and got a D Jax amd drafted playmakers in the draft like Oj Howard but to say that has no merit just wouldn't be right. In the grand scheme of things I'd lean towards Carr.


I didn't say it has no merit but it's not a statistic I'd value very highly, PERSONALLY. Just like QB wins, you're giving one player the credit for the entire TEAM coming back and winning the game. What if Jameis is on the verge of a comeback, but one of his linemen blows an assignment for a strip sack? Or what if a receiver runs the wrong route? You can't fault one player for a lack of comeback wins. There's just way too many variables that go into an NFL game to consider the final outcome a judgement on a single player.

That said, "game managers" do still exist. There will always be guys like Smith, Bradford, etc. who are too scared of throwing an INT that they'll leave yards on the field in comeback situations. I think it's safe to say neither of these 2 QBs would be scared to open things up when down.

Despite all of this, I actually agree that Carr is the better QB. But that's mainly because he's more efficient (although he does have the superior supporting cast,) and I also think Jameis is a bit too wreckless at times and can try to force things when under pressure.


"More efficient"? There's more to it than you let on:

He's a better decision maker when it comes to keeping the ball safe. He has more arm talent and his deep ball is one of the best in the league. I highly doubt anyone will debate any of that.


Can you read?


And Jameis has amazing arm talent so not sure why you brought that up:
https://youtu.be/hcLnxdJukY0?t=48s
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