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atown703


Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 10687
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
burnoutonme wrote:
Lasus83 wrote:
burnoutonme wrote:
Here's some spitballing; I don't figure we sign Jared Cook, haven't heard anything about us being interested this go-round, but we were in contact with him during the legal tampering period last year. The fact that he hasn't signed yet is a sign that he could come cheaper than you'd think, and the fact that he's visiting with the Seahawks seems to suggest that he's okay with playing second fiddle to an alpha TE. Just a thought.

Teez Tabor is a finesse guy, in my opinion, in addition to reportedly being a drama queen. I don't like him for our scheme/locker room at all. I think a guys like Desmond King, Quincy Wilson, or Rasul Douglas would be much more fitting for the team at the CB position, and but I'm really not big on taking a CB before RD3 or RD4 unless it's just an insane value. We paid Captain starter's money to play nickel, and I think Worley and Bradberry are more than capable of holding down the fort for the next 3 or 4 years.

Just the depth in this draft, to me, seems off the charts. Good year to have 4 picks in the top 100.

Really excited about the safety depth in this draft, more than anything. Coleman and Adams are both good players, but I'm really high on guys like Budda Baker, Marcus Maybe, Justin Evans, Josh Jones, Eddie Jackson, and even Josh Harvey-Clemons to some degree.


Your spit-balling is always hard to argue with and is contrary to the reason behind a "discussion" forum.


*crickets*


You have poor social skills... you have a problem.

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burnoutonme


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 1634
Location: Charlotte, NC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
burnoutonme wrote:
Lasus83 wrote:
burnoutonme wrote:
Here's some spitballing; I don't figure we sign Jared Cook, haven't heard anything about us being interested this go-round, but we were in contact with him during the legal tampering period last year. The fact that he hasn't signed yet is a sign that he could come cheaper than you'd think, and the fact that he's visiting with the Seahawks seems to suggest that he's okay with playing second fiddle to an alpha TE. Just a thought.

Teez Tabor is a finesse guy, in my opinion, in addition to reportedly being a drama queen. I don't like him for our scheme/locker room at all. I think a guys like Desmond King, Quincy Wilson, or Rasul Douglas would be much more fitting for the team at the CB position, and but I'm really not big on taking a CB before RD3 or RD4 unless it's just an insane value. We paid Captain starter's money to play nickel, and I think Worley and Bradberry are more than capable of holding down the fort for the next 3 or 4 years.

Just the depth in this draft, to me, seems off the charts. Good year to have 4 picks in the top 100.

Really excited about the safety depth in this draft, more than anything. Coleman and Adams are both good players, but I'm really high on guys like Budda Baker, Marcus Maybe, Justin Evans, Josh Jones, Eddie Jackson, and even Josh Harvey-Clemons to some degree.


Your spit-balling is always hard to argue with and is contrary to the reason behind a "discussion" forum.


*crickets*


You have poor social skills... you have a problem.




One guy I'd be interested on getting people's perspective on here is Jonathan Allen. Some folks believe that here's a chance that he slips a bit in the draft due to him having surgeries on both shoulders (including a torn labrum repair), in addition to a poor combine. Also, in spite of his poor combine, he opted not to try and improve upon his measurables by declining to workout at Alabama's pro day, a really curious decision.

A lot of folks see him as a 3-tech DT in a 4-3 front, or a 5-tech DE in a 3-4 front. I'd be interested in him as a potential starter as a strong side DE in our 4-3 base, were he to fall, as some have projected.
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Lasus83


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3465
Location: Charlotte, NC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

burnoutonme wrote:


One guy I'd be interested on getting people's perspective on here is Jonathan Allen. Some folks believe that here's a chance that he slips a bit in the draft due to him having surgeries on both shoulders (including a torn labrum repair), in addition to a poor combine. Also, in spite of his poor combine, he opted not to try and improve upon his measurables by declining to workout at Alabama's pro day, a really curious decision.

A lot of folks see him as a 3-tech DT in a 4-3 front, or a 5-tech DE in a 3-4 front. I'd be interested in him as a potential starter as a strong side DE in our 4-3 base, were he to fall, as some have projected.


So... should I respond or just assume he know's my opinion?

I'll respond...

Unless we are converting to a 3-4, pass.
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ericr0319


Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
burnoutonme wrote:


One guy I'd be interested on getting people's perspective on here is Jonathan Allen. Some folks believe that here's a chance that he slips a bit in the draft due to him having surgeries on both shoulders (including a torn labrum repair), in addition to a poor combine. Also, in spite of his poor combine, he opted not to try and improve upon his measurables by declining to workout at Alabama's pro day, a really curious decision.

A lot of folks see him as a 3-tech DT in a 4-3 front, or a 5-tech DE in a 3-4 front. I'd be interested in him as a potential starter as a strong side DE in our 4-3 base, were he to fall, as some have projected.


So... should I respond or just assume he know's my opinion?

I'll respond...

Unless we are converting to a 3-4, pass.
i'd punch my TV
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burnoutonme


Joined: 02 Mar 2007
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Location: Charlotte, NC
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
burnoutonme wrote:


One guy I'd be interested on getting people's perspective on here is Jonathan Allen. Some folks believe that here's a chance that he slips a bit in the draft due to him having surgeries on both shoulders (including a torn labrum repair), in addition to a poor combine. Also, in spite of his poor combine, he opted not to try and improve upon his measurables by declining to workout at Alabama's pro day, a really curious decision.

A lot of folks see him as a 3-tech DT in a 4-3 front, or a 5-tech DE in a 3-4 front. I'd be interested in him as a potential starter as a strong side DE in our 4-3 base, were he to fall, as some have projected.


So... should I respond or just assume he know's my opinion?

I'll respond...

Unless we are converting to a 3-4, pass.


It's a fair stance to take. Comparisons for him go all over the map, with some throwing out Michael Bennett, which seems a little off to me. I just know that Gettleman loves a good value, and a guy who some see as the second best player in the draft could theoretically fit that description. Granted, team big boards rank players based not on pure talent, but their team-specific talent.
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Zithers


Joined: 15 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
Zithers wrote:
Not enough OJ Howard love happening. Paired with Olsen and there'd be mismatches for days. Remember that we were ready to take Hunter Henry last year before Butler dropped to us.


I got love for Howard I'm just not in love with Howard. Howard makes sense in the teens or twenties. Not at 1.8.


I mean, if he's BPA... Would you rather take another corner? Howard might already be on the same level or better than Olsen as a blocker and looks like he has both straight line speed and the ability to run some over. Looks like a way better athlete than Olsen. They'd be an insane tandem. Would not be upset at all with him at 8. I mean, if Fournette, Adams, Garrett, Thomas, and Hooker are gone (likely)... who are we supposed to take?
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zithers wrote:
Lasus83 wrote:
Zithers wrote:
Not enough OJ Howard love happening. Paired with Olsen and there'd be mismatches for days. Remember that we were ready to take Hunter Henry last year before Butler dropped to us.


I got love for Howard I'm just not in love with Howard. Howard makes sense in the teens or twenties. Not at 1.8.


I mean, if he's BPA... Would you rather take another corner? Howard might already be on the same level or better than Olsen as a blocker and looks like he has both straight line speed and the ability to run some over. Looks like a way better athlete than Olsen. They'd be an insane tandem. Would not be upset at all with him at 8. I mean, if Fournette, Adams, Garrett, Thomas, and Hooker are gone (likely)... who are we supposed to take?


All of those players are not going to be gone. This year is not going to be some anomaly were quarterbacks are not taking in the top 10.

My thought process on Howard is that he has done too much climbing of the draft boards since the national championship game. I don't trust that. That means that people have raised his stock based on what he did in his underwear.

Side note, I had a dream last night that Reuben Foster sliped to our pick in the second. Dave gettleman was having a hard time picking between him and who else he wanted. I don't know who else he wanted but I wish I did. stupid dreams
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Drics13


Joined: 30 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In 2013 EJ Manual was the first QB off the board at 15 so it could happen but i think one will go in the top 10.

My realistic preference is:
Fournette
J. Adams
Hooker
S. Thomas
D. Barnett - this guys game tape is insane.
Trade back or OJ Howard

I think if we were to lose Olsen we would feel it much more then any other offensive position outside QB and this guy is a beast. Saying that, there are probably 4 very good tight ends in the draft. Exciting times.
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Lasus83


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drics13 wrote:
In 2013 EJ Manual was the first QB off the board at 15 so it could happen but i think one will go in the top 10.

My realistic preference is:
Fournette
J. Adams
Hooker
S. Thomas
D. Barnett - this guys game tape is insane.
Trade back or OJ Howard

I think if we were to lose Olsen we would feel it much more then any other offensive position outside QB and this guy is a beast. Saying that, there are probably 4 very good tight ends in the draft. Exciting times.


People criminally underrate Barnett... Good for us.
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Panthers11


Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think too much is being put into Cook's combine performance. I don't mind McCaffrey, though.

I'm not sure which way I feel about OJ Howard at 8. He's a beast but his lack of production/use in college is mindboggling. More of a fan of Njoku or Engram in round 2, paired with a DE/S/RB in round 1.
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Panthers11 wrote:
I think too much is being put into Cook's combine performance. I don't mind McCaffrey, though.

I'm not sure which way I feel about OJ Howard at 8. He's a beast but his lack of production/use in college is mindboggling.


It was mainly because he was underused.
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Zithers


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:

All of those players are not going to be gone. This year is not going to be some anomaly were quarterbacks are not taking in the top 10.


There'd have to be some wild trades for them to fall to us because of a QB run. Watson could go top seven since he's dual threat and has the championship performance going for him. I don't think the Bears (John Fox...) will want anything to do with a small handed one year wonder QB like Trubisky. Pat Mahomes is not going top ten. The Browns are going to draft Garrett. There'd have to be a major shock to see any of Hooker (Chargers), Adams (anyone but Jags or Browns), Fournette (almost certainly a Jaguar), or Thomas (top five) dropped to us.

Quote:
My thought process on Howard is that he has done too much climbing of the draft boards since the national championship game. I don't trust that. That means that people have raised his stock based on what he did in his underwear.


Its hard to deny that in two championship games he has 9 catches for 314 (a whopping 34.9 YPC) yards and 3 scores. G-Man and Rivera are fans of prospects that perform in big moments (see Benji in the NC). And yeah, he's also climbing boards because of his combine (6'6 251 4.51 40) although he's obviously a freak from his tape anyway. And the Panthers have long said that they don't care that much about the combine and worry more about film. Also, Saban has even gone on record saying Howard was under utilized. The Panthers wouldn't have him doing hitch routes and curls all the time. He'd be blazing down the seam in our scheme. It would be awesome. Plus, think of the offense if Olsen got hurt. We'd be completely f***ed. Howard is far away the most complete TE in the draft and by the time his fifth year option is over, Olsen is probably retiring. He would be a great pick.
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zithers wrote:
Lasus83 wrote:

All of those players are not going to be gone. This year is not going to be some anomaly were quarterbacks are not taking in the top 10.


There'd have to be some wild trades for them to fall to us because of a QB run. Which I don't think is going to happen for a small handed one year wonder dude like Trubisky or a Texas Tech QB. Watson could go top seven since he's dual threat and has the championship performance going for him. I don't think the Bears (John Fox...) will want anything to do with a small handed one year wonder QB like Trubisky. Pat Mahomes is not going top ten. The Browns are going to draft Garrett. There'd have to be a major shock to see any of Hooker (Chargers), Adams (anyone but Jags or Browns), Fournette (almost certainly a Jaguar), or Thomas (top five) dropped to us.


Sounds like a side-bet. I'll bet 2 QBs go in the first (via trade or otherwise). Glennon is not the answer in Chicago. He is a stop-gap vet to groom a young QB.

Mitch fits that mold perfectly. Only thing he lacks is the experience. It would be an ideal scenario for him to be able to hold a clipboard for a couple years while watching a Vet. The only question would be, for me, is if the current regime has enough job security to hold out during that period. Signing Glennon means they are NOT in win-now mode.


Zithers wrote:

Quote:
My thought process on Howard is that he has done too much climbing of the draft boards since the national championship game. I don't trust that. That means that people have raised his stock based on what he did in his underwear.


Its hard to deny that in two championship games he has 9 catches for 314 (a whopping 34.9 YPC) yards and 3 scores. G-Man and Rivera are fans of prospects that perform in big moments (see Benji in the NC). And yeah, he's also climbing boards because of his combine (6'6 251 4.51 40) although he's obviously a freak from his tape anyway. And the Panthers have long said that they don't care that much about the combine and worry more about film. Also, Saban has even gone on record saying Howard was under utilized. The Panthers wouldn't have him doing hitch routes and curls all the time. He'd be blazing down the seam in our scheme. It would be awesome. Plus, think of the offense if Olsen got hurt. We'd be completely f***ed. Howard is far away the most complete TE in the draft and by the time his fifth year option is over, Olsen is probably retiring. He would be a great pick.


Like I said... "I got love for Howard. I am just not 'in love' with him".

He would be an awesome addition to our team... but his value is in the 20's. There are a bunch of players, who will be there at 1.8, that should be higher on our board.

... maybe not a bunch... but enough to make him not the top guy. Ideally, if we KNEW that Fournette and Adams were not going to be there at 1.8, I would like to see a trade down/trade-up scenario. That is, we move 1.8 down and we move 2.8 up simultaneously. Somehow acquire two picks in the teens... Get Howard and Barnett... would be amazing.

But I think Fournette is going to be there....
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Panthers11


Joined: 23 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is everyone as down on Cook as that previous post a few pages ago?

I'm opening up to Howard. Zithers makes some good points.

Also just want to say I'm elated at the busy discussion on here. Love to see it. My 10 year is coming up...
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is my main issue with taking OJ Howard:

How many more drafts can we go where we take a player whose main purpose is to wait in the shadows of a better player?

We did it with Thompson. We did it with Butler. It isn't necessarily that I have an issue with that approach in doses; after all, I liked the Butler pick a lot and think he will eventually develop into a solid player), but I'm not sure we can keep going down that road. I certainly don't want to see this team have to wait 4-5 years before our top ten pick is finally #1 at his position on the depth chart.

I'm all for a long-term approach, but I think we are in position to take someone who helps us long-term while also being able to make a huge impact within their 1st two years. Unless we transition our offense to something along the lines of the Patriots where we heavily utilized two tight ends, I'm not sold we should use the pick we have on a tight end.

I have no problem moving into the first round to take him though, although this tight end class is so deep we could snatch someone up in the 2nd or 3rd round.
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