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ericr0319


Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1324
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:09 am    Post subject: REAL offseason discussion Reply with quote

We need a non-fairy tail, non-final fantasy VII offseason discussion form. I propose this be it. My apologies if one has already been created.

Free agents, cuts, drafts, resigns-what do you want to happen?

Cut - Jstew, Philly.

Resign - KK Short (rather not tag him), I'd like to bring back Addison if the market doesn't jump his value.

Signs - Kahlil at LT and Ricky Wagner RT. We have the money to sign offensive line and we can grab 2 younger top tier (Kahlil can get there). I like the idea of bringing Peppers and Captain back too.

Draft - I want Hooker or Adams. But, I wouldn't complain about a RB in the first, IF we sign oline.

The rest of the draft is too hard to predict right now. However, we need to address DE, OLB, C, and CB in the draft. (Obviously OL, but im hoping we make a splash in FA.)
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yesweCAM


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would only want to cut Stewart if we drafted a top tier RB to carry the load. Running the football is so instrumental to our success we need to have a workhorse in the backfield.

The thing that makes the KK deal/tag interesting is us drafting Butler last year. Realistically, we can probably only keep either KK or Star, not both. I think it's in the best interest to tag KK this year and see how Butler develops given another year. KK is our best DT but do we want to sign KK to a long term deal around 12mil/year when we can sign Star for around half of that and have Butler on his rookie contract? The extra year gives us flexibility to see if Butler can develop into his replacement.

All on board with Khalil and Wagner. I'm curious to see how much you guys think these guys would cost.

A lot of reports have us as a possible destination for Victor Cruz. Give us a veteran presence we've lacked but I don't think he has much in the tank.

As far as our draft, I want Fournette, Adams, Hooker, Thomas, Barnett in that order for 1.8.

In the second round, I'm intrigued by Njoku. Would give us a solid 2nd pass catching TE.
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burnoutonme


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: REAL offseason discussion Reply with quote

ericr0319 wrote:
We need a non-fairy tail, non-final fantasy VII offseason discussion form. I propose this be it. My apologies if one has already been created.

Free agents, cuts, drafts, resigns-what do you want to happen?

Cut - Jstew, Philly.

Resign - KK Short (rather not tag him), I'd like to bring back Addison if the market doesn't jump his value.

Signs - Kahlil at LT and Ricky Wagner RT. We have the money to sign offensive line and we can grab 2 younger top tier (Kahlil can get there). I like the idea of bringing Peppers and Captain back too.

Draft - I want Hooker or Adams. But, I wouldn't complain about a RB in the first, IF we sign oline.

The rest of the draft is too hard to predict right now. However, we need to address DE, OLB, C, and CB in the draft. (Obviously OL, but im hoping we make a splash in FA.)


Well, for one, Ron Rivera's mentioned Stewart by name as someone we need to get going, I don't think we have intentions of moving on there, nor do I think we should. Stew's still playing at a very effective level, by my own estimation. If we need his $4.75M cap hit off the books, I guess I could see it, but I don't see where we need to make that space.

Philly's an UFA.

Hopefully we lock down KK at an agreeable price. I still see him being tagged. He wasn't quite as effective in 2016 as he was in 2015, so maybe that brings down his asking price. Unfortunately, every year that goes by in today's NFL brings about higher dollar figures as the cap increases rapidly. One thing about KK is that he's in the same age situation that Josh Norman was last offseason. Something to entertain. He's not a pup in quite the same way Fletcher Cox is. He just turned 28.

Personally, my take on KK is to do the thing that he's not going to like. Tag him, pay him top dollar to play age 28. Next offseason he's 29. I don't think we should be giving 29YO guys top dollar, particularly with Vernon Butler and Star on the roster (this is, however, suggesting we bring back Star.) Just makes me skiddish to lock down older players to deals that are typically reserved for 26 year olds.

Peppers and Captain, I would welcome. Wagner played really well last year. If he'd take something in the ballpark of 5/35, I'd be really stoked on him. Kalil I'm not as optimistic for. He's had a lot of health issues over the years that have kept him off the field while zapping his effectiveness, and continuity on an offensive line is, to me, priority 1B, second only to talent.

Adams or Hooker would be nice, just because they're great players. I'd prefer Adams for our current team, as he profiles as more of a SS than Hooker, by my estimation. I don't want to see Kurt Coleman back at SS.

I'd probably be the most stoked if we could grab Fournette at this point, but I'm not at all married to him. Trading down would be wonderful, and I think some teams could be seriously looking to jump the Bills (10), Browns (12), or Cardinals (13) in pursuit of a QB.

Also, Eric, what's with the inflammatory language in the opening lines of your thread? I don't see what the issue is with people enjoying mock offseasons. I don't play video games, but I don't sit back and criticize those that spend hours playing games online. It's really no different, and honestly, it's something that's healthy for our dwindling forum. Not cool, man.
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Lasus83


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't take credit for the below (Carolina Huddle), but it is a good start to drive this kind of conversation.

I think the #1 lesson you take from doing the below yourself is that the money does not go as far as you think sometimes...

-----------------
The Panthers currently have 49.7 million in cap space.

The rookie pool is projected to cost us 7.8 million.

This leaves 41.9 million to use in FA.

Your first decision as GM is who to cut. The following players have been mentioned as possible cuts to the roster and can increase our CAP for FA.

RB Jonathan Stewart 4.8
P Andy Lee 3.4
K Graham Gano 3.1
DT Paul Soliai 2.5
LT Micheal Oher 2.5
TE Ed Dickson 2.3
QB Derek Anderson 1.7
QB Joe Webb 0.9


Your second decision will be resigning our current FAs.

UFA
DT Kawaan Short 13.5
DE Mario Addison 4.5
DE Charles Johnson 3
T Mike Remmers 3
WR Ted Ginn Jr 3
LB A.J. Klein 1.5
CB Teddy Williams 1.5
FS Micheal Griffin 1.5
G Chris Scottt 1.5
DT Kyle Love 1.5
C Ryan Wendell 0.5
CB Leonard Johnson 0.5
S Colin Jones 0.5

RFA

G Andrew Norwell 2.3
RB Fozzy Whittaker 1.5
DE Wes Horton 1.5
WR Corey Brown 1.5
WR Brenton Bersin 0.5
CB Louis Young 0.5

EFRA All will likely be resigned


Here are your list of interesting FAs we may be looking at.

Possible FA OTs

Andrew Whitworth
Ricky Wagner
Riley Reiff
Sebastian Vollmer
Matt Kalil
Charles Leno
Austin Pasztor
Andre Smith

Possible FA DEs

Chander Jones
Melvin Ingram
Jason Pierre-Paul
Jabaal Sheard
Julius Peppers
Karl Klug
Devin Taylor
Chris Long

Possible FA S

Eric Berry
John Cyprien
Tony Jefferson
Barry Church
T.J. McDonald
Micah Hyde
Jahleel Addae
D.J. Swearinger
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: REAL offseason discussion Reply with quote

burnoutonme wrote:
ericr0319 wrote:
We need a non-fairy tail, non-final fantasy VII offseason discussion form. I propose this be it. My apologies if one has already been created.

Free agents, cuts, drafts, resigns-what do you want to happen?

Cut - Jstew, Philly.

Resign - KK Short (rather not tag him), I'd like to bring back Addison if the market doesn't jump his value.

Signs - Kahlil at LT and Ricky Wagner RT. We have the money to sign offensive line and we can grab 2 younger top tier (Kahlil can get there). I like the idea of bringing Peppers and Captain back too.

Draft - I want Hooker or Adams. But, I wouldn't complain about a RB in the first, IF we sign oline.

The rest of the draft is too hard to predict right now. However, we need to address DE, OLB, C, and CB in the draft. (Obviously OL, but im hoping we make a splash in FA.)


Well, for one, Ron Rivera's mentioned Stewart by name as someone we need to get going, I don't think we have intentions of moving on there, nor do I think we should. Stew's still playing at a very effective level, by my own estimation. If we need his $4.75M cap hit off the books, I guess I could see it, but I don't see where we need to make that space.

Philly's an UFA.

Hopefully we lock down KK at an agreeable price. I still see him being tagged. He wasn't quite as effective in 2016 as he was in 2015, so maybe that brings down his asking price. Unfortunately, every year that goes by in today's NFL brings about higher dollar figures as the cap increases rapidly. One thing about KK is that he's in the same age situation that Josh Norman was last offseason. Something to entertain. He's not a pup in quite the same way Fletcher Cox is. He just turned 28.

Personally, my take on KK is to do the thing that he's not going to like. Tag him, pay him top dollar to play age 28. Next offseason he's 29. I don't think we should be giving 29YO guys top dollar, particularly with Vernon Butler and Star on the roster (this is, however, suggesting we bring back Star.) Just makes me skiddish to lock down older players to deals that are typically reserved for 26 year olds.

Peppers and Captain, I would welcome. Wagner played really well last year. If he'd take something in the ballpark of 5/35, I'd be really stoked on him. Kalil I'm not as optimistic for. He's had a lot of health issues over the years that have kept him off the field while zapping his effectiveness, and continuity on an offensive line is, to me, priority 1B, second only to talent.

Adams or Hooker would be nice, just because they're great players. I'd prefer Adams for our current team, as he profiles as more of a SS than Hooker, by my estimation. I don't want to see Kurt Coleman back at SS.

I'd probably be the most stoked if we could grab Fournette at this point, but I'm not at all married to him. Trading down would be wonderful, and I think some teams could be seriously looking to jump the Bills (10), Browns (12), or Cardinals (13) in pursuit of a QB.

Also, Eric, what's with the inflammatory language in the opening lines of your thread? I don't see what the issue is with people enjoying mock offseasons. I don't play video games, but I don't sit back and criticize those that spend hours playing games online. It's really no different, and honestly, it's something that's healthy for our dwindling forum. Not cool, man.


I tend to agree with a lot of what burnoutonme says... largely because he steals all of his ideas from me, :lol:

on to the specific topics of discussion:

1. KK - I said earlier that this was going to be the biggest area of discussion (short of the draft and possibly FA) this offseason. It will definitely be discussed a year from now much like Norman.

I think him being tagged is all-but-inevitable at this point. We do ourselves no harm to tag him since any contract he would sign would pay him more in 2017/18 than the tag. If he outplays it... great! If not, we will have done ourselves a favor.

2. Left Tackle - Kalil is the popular choice here. But, as burnoutonme indicated, he is injury prone. Clady will be released by the Jets (also injury prone) and the OT draft class features no 1st round talents (and yes I include Ramczyk and Robinson in this).

There is the possibility that Oher is coming back, and that is what the Oher camp is saying, but I don't see it.

There is only one solution here... and it is Reiff. He is an average to above average LT, true... but he is always healthy. Remember where Oher graded out when he came here? Very similar in that he was moved to RT by Tenn and graded poorly. Reiff is a much better (and younger) version of Oher.

It will take 13M (top LT money) to sign him and I think he is worth every single penny.

Signing him needs to be the top priority for us.

Other FAs - There are a lot. Some guys on my radar are Cyprien, Sheard and Juszczyk.

Those guys are 1a. The rest I could fathom are Mario Williams, Church, Swearinger and(although I hate to say it) Kalil.

Draft - My list is straight forward and as follows:

1. Fournette - More discussion if you guys would prefer but I could go on for pages about why this guy is head and shoulders over the rest of the talent probably available at 1.8.
2. Barnett - I think he may end up as the best DL prospect to come from this draft
3. Adams - I don't think he will be there but he is going to be a star.
4. Trade down

thoughts on the rest:
Hooker - surgeries and he is a FS... we need a SS
Foster - gonna have surgery too but a stellar LB. Remember drafting Luke when we had Beason? Same kinda thing.
Robinson - Laughable
OJ Howard - In a trade down... sure.
Cook - Questionable company, legal history (was not guilty - still, though), lacks strength and pass blocking skills.
Allen - Not a scheme fit unless we are going to a 3-4 and disappeared in the national championship game.
Thomas - Maybe... Just not as high on this guy. Also don't think he makes it down the board too far so, I just don't see him here.

Jstew - We are ready to move on from his contract... not him. I once called him "injury prone" but have found that he is statistically not (longer argument here and available). We need a restructure, if necessary, and to get back to our smash n dash or double trouble or whatever 1-2 punch at RB.

As far as later rounds go:

1rst rounder's who could drop and be a "run up to the podium" player:
Ross - WR
Ramczyk - OT
Tabor - CB (this is a stretch but I've seen it)
Charles Harris - Edge
Taco - Edge (stretch but I've seen it)
Njoku - TE

solid picks in the 2nd/could slip to the 3ed
Demarcus Walker - Edge
Jordan Leggett - TE
Cordrea Tankersley - CB
Garcia - OT
Melifonwu - Safety
Rod Johnson - OT

...

there are also a hand full of centers that I like in the 3rd/4th rounds... Pocic probably the most. Guy is a workhorse and smart.... never misses a game, plays multiple positions. helluva player.

There are quite a few more prospects who are mention worthy. I do a daily mock to the 4th and see players slip, that have 3rd round grades, all the time.

CB class is loaded as crap... good day 2 talent at TE... some consideration-worthy day 2 OTs (who will likely be career backups)... Good DL draft. RBs are "fairly" heavy until around the late 2nd.

Extra

Prediction: We will NOT trade down in the 1st... not DGs "style"... he says "why trade a quarter for 2 dimes?", or some such thing.

I'll bet we trade 2.8 into the late 1st to snag a player that is slipping. It has the added benefit of giving us a 5th year option with that player. Although I value Barnett at 1.8, I have seen a lot of mocks with him slipping in the 1st. If we could get Fournette and Barnett... man, I'd be doing backflips.
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ericr0319


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see a lot of points on KK - he will be 29 next year after a tag year (which seems so likely). But, 29 isnt the end of the world.

I also agree to cut Gano. The guy is the most un-clutch kicker in the game. I don't agree on Andy Lee. This guy was terrific for us before he got injured. Punting is a big part of the game, and when you have a guy who constantly gives you good field position it is huge.

Safeties I believe are pretty versatile. I also would not pass on safety because we currently have a "SS."

Cruz - no way. We have enough WR that under perform.

Something needs to be done about the DE or RB situation. Idk if we sign a vet to fill in at DE, but we need a playmaker. Or do we? We ranked high in sacks (maybe top 3?).
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericr0319 wrote:
I can see a lot of points on KK - he will be 29 next year after a tag year (which seems so likely). But, 29 isnt the end of the world.

I also agree to cut Gano. The guy is the most un-clutch kicker in the game. I don't agree on Andy Lee. This guy was terrific for us before he got injured. Punting is a big part of the game, and when you have a guy who constantly gives you good field position it is huge.

Safeties I believe are pretty versatile. I also would not pass on safety because we currently have a "SS."

Cruz - no way. We have enough WR that under perform.

Something needs to be done about the DE or RB situation. Idk if we sign a vet to fill in at DE, but we need a playmaker. Or do we? We ranked high in sacks (maybe top 3?).


DE and RB are both positions that can be satisfied in the draft.

DE is deeper, imo...

The talent from Fournette to, say, a Gallman/Kamara falls off a lot more than we will see going from Taco to Walker or , if we want to take a flyer, Lawson.
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ericr0319


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasus83 wrote:
ericr0319 wrote:
I can see a lot of points on KK - he will be 29 next year after a tag year (which seems so likely). But, 29 isnt the end of the world.

I also agree to cut Gano. The guy is the most un-clutch kicker in the game. I don't agree on Andy Lee. This guy was terrific for us before he got injured. Punting is a big part of the game, and when you have a guy who constantly gives you good field position it is huge.

Safeties I believe are pretty versatile. I also would not pass on safety because we currently have a "SS."

Cruz - no way. We have enough WR that under perform.

Something needs to be done about the DE or RB situation. Idk if we sign a vet to fill in at DE, but we need a playmaker. Or do we? We ranked high in sacks (maybe top 3?).


DE and RB are both positions that can be satisfied in the draft.

DE is deeper, imo...

The talent from Fournette to, say, a Gallman/Kamara falls off a lot more than we will see going from Taco to Walker or , if we want to take a flyer, Lawson.


i think this is a year we can grab a productive starter in the 2nd round. Malik, Adams, or Fournette have to be the pick at this point.
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ryanxmerch


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a serious question not a finger pointing witch hunt, but where does the Matt Kalil injury prone stuff come from? Did he have problems in college, did he miss a lot of snaps in games he played in the NFL? Every stat site I have looked at had him at 16 games a season his whole career except for last year.
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryanxmerch wrote:
This is a serious question not a finger pointing witch hunt, but where does the Matt Kalil injury prone stuff come from? Did he have problems in college, did he miss a lot of snaps in games he played in the NFL? Every stat site I have looked at had him at 16 games a season his whole career except for last year.


Both knees and hips the last 2 years. Not good for big men who need lateral quickness.
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ericr0319


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RB Jonathan Stewart 4.8
P Andy Lee 3.4
K Graham Gano 3.1
DT Paul Soliai 2.5
LT Micheal Oher 2.5
TE Ed Dickson 2.3
QB Derek Anderson 1.7 (even though he was horrific last year)
QB Joe Webb 0.9

the rest can go...

DT Kawaan Short 13.5 - I am sure we tag him
DE Mario Addison 4.5 - At this number keep
DE Charles Johnson 3
T Mike Remmers 3
WR Ted Ginn Jr 3
LB A.J. Klein 1.5 - Although he probably walks for a chance at more playing time
CB Teddy Williams 1.5
FS Micheal Griffin 1.5
G Chris Scottt 1.5
DT Kyle Love 1.5
C Ryan Wendell 0.5
CB Leonard Johnson 0.5
S Colin Jones 0.5

the rest can walk....

FA OT

Kahlil because of the price over Whitworth
Ricky Wagner

FA DE

Peppers or JPP - I think we need to bring in a vet

FA S

Don't want to spend on a safety. I would like to grab one in the 1st.

I also think we can benefit from a loaded TE FA class. Jack Doyle is a guy that could play well in our system. [/b]
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yesweCAM


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericr0319 wrote:
RB Jonathan Stewart 4.8
P Andy Lee 3.4
K Graham Gano 3.1
DT Paul Soliai 2.5
LT Micheal Oher 2.5
TE Ed Dickson 2.3
QB Derek Anderson 1.7 (even though he was horrific last year)
QB Joe Webb 0.9

the rest can go...

DT Kawaan Short 13.5 - I am sure we tag him
DE Mario Addison 4.5 - At this number keep
DE Charles Johnson 3
T Mike Remmers 3
WR Ted Ginn Jr 3
LB A.J. Klein 1.5 - Although he probably walks for a chance at more playing time
CB Teddy Williams 1.5
FS Micheal Griffin 1.5
G Chris Scottt 1.5
DT Kyle Love 1.5
C Ryan Wendell 0.5
CB Leonard Johnson 0.5
S Colin Jones 0.5

the rest can walk....

FA OT

Kahlil because of the price over Whitworth
Ricky Wagner

FA DE

Peppers or JPP - I think we need to bring in a vet

FA S

Don't want to spend on a safety. I would like to grab one in the 1st.

I also think we can benefit from a loaded TE FA class. Jack Doyle is a guy that could play well in our system. [/b]


So you want to cut Stewart, draft a safety in the 1st and go into the season with either a FA pickup or Tolbert/Fozzy in our backfield?

I'm fine with adding Peppers as a veteran. However, JPP is wayyy too expensive for us. I've seen articles that he's looking for the contract that Vernon got last year. I don't want to give him that kind of contract and have to deal with KK/Star's contract next year. I'm fine with bringing back CJ on another 1 year contract. He's solid against the run and can be rotated with a young DE that we could draft in the middle rounds that is ready to pass rush but can't contain the edge.

I would keep Stewart, Lee, Gano, Oher, Anderson and Webb. Cut Soliai and Dickson.
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Lasus83


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would bet, heavily, that you will see us pick a RB in this draft.

When DG was asked about the position he lit up with a big smile and said something like... "I think you all know that this is a really good RB class".

I do not like the DE FAs available, though. Sheard is my only target and he may be too expensive too.

Heard today that the Jets would take a 3ed for Sheldon Richardson today... but he plays the same position as KK and has been pretty close to a bust.

With the talent in the Draft, I truly expect us double dipping in the draft with the position.
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iknowcool


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a reason Stewart, despite still clearly being a talented back, is not even averaging 4 yards per carry the last two years.

I'm not as sold on Fournette as others are. Even if I were, when you consider the talent level of RBs in this draft, I don't see why we would pick one at #8 when we could still get a future starter in the 2nd (it's possible that Cook falls due to character concerns, McCaffery, etc). I'm in the minority that believe it's okay to take a RB in the first round, but I don't think we're in a good position to do so. Not unless Shula shows a willingness to change the scheme. If we draft Fournette, we have to be committed to a run scheme that has our RBs going downhill consistently, not that shotgun, long-developing crap.
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ericr0319


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iknowcool wrote:
There is a reason Stewart, despite still clearly being a talented back, is not even averaging 4 yards per carry the last two years.

I'm not as sold on Fournette as others are. Even if I were, when you consider the talent level of RBs in this draft, I don't see why we would pick one at #8 when we could still get a future starter in the 2nd (it's possible that Cook falls due to character concerns, McCaffery, etc). I'm in the minority that believe it's okay to take a RB in the first round, but I don't think we're in a good position to do so. Not unless Shula shows a willingness to change the scheme. If we draft Fournette, we have to be committed to a run scheme that has our RBs going downhill consistently, not that shotgun, long-developing crap.


I agree. I think Cook probably fits our system better than Fournette. But, Fournette is safer. I went to FSU, and trust me, I LOVE COOK. But he has a lot of nothing plays. But, hes a game changer. If we could safely trade to around 15 and pick up a 2nd, or high 3rd id love Cook at that spot. That said, if we do no address OT's in FA, RB is not my choice.
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