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Crazy mock and offseason...or is it?

 
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GEE MEN


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 4597
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Crazy mock and offseason...or is it? Reply with quote

A bit of a crazy thought this off-season. (More on that later).

Re-sign
JPP, Robinson, Leon Hall, Robbie Gould, Sensabaugh (for ST), Josh Johnson (He knows the system and hopefully will never have to play), Kelvin Shepp (Goodson should start and need depth).

Tender
Tye, Lacosse, Wynn, Winn, Skinner, Pinkens, Robert Thomas.

Cut
Cruz (love the guy but lost 4 steps and too expensive)
D. Harris (love his heart but he has the body of a 60 year old with the beating.
Vereen. Perkins can replace his production at a cheaper rate.
JT Thomas. (nuff said)
Rashaad Jennings. (good dude but regressed as season went on)
Unga

FA signings.
Nick Fairley, DT , 3yr/ 18MM. With Hankins getting paid as he should in FA, offers a nice consolation prize. Fairley is older than Big Hank so he should command less that Hank in FA. Fairley is a true 3 tech having amassed 6.5 sacks in 2016 only 1.5 behind Aaron Donald. Fairley plays the run pretty well as well. We haven't had anyone push the pocket up the middle in a long time and would help the pass rush. He is coming off yet another 1 year deal at 3MM and I think a contract would be a good investment. Thomas isn't a 3 tech and Bromley isn't good enough to start yet.

Ron Leary, G. 4yr/36MM Leary is a very underrated Guard in the league. In order to improve the run game we need people that push the pile. Leary is an excellent run blocker and didn't give up a single sack all season (he stepped in for Collins due to injury). He is 27 years old and an upgrade over Jerry who could resume backup role.

Ricky Wagner, RT. 4yr/27MM Wagner is an excellent run blocker and very good in pass protection and he is only 27 years old. This move moves Flowers to the bench to focus on "technique" and Flower could be the swing tackle and heir apparent to...(see below). Unlikely Reese allows his boy to be benched but that is where he needs to be to focus on technique.

Eddie Lacy, RB
3yr/15MM. With a much improved OL with emphases on maulers in the running game no better than to have a young (if not overweight) bruiser in the back field with Perkins as a change of pace. Lacy likely will not be back in GB with 88 being converted full time to RB in GB and Starks in the mix as well. Lacy is only 26 years old and is the December type RB a team needs to balance an offense.

Jack Doyle, TE 4yr/24MM. Only 26 yo. A big 6'6 target for Eli. Arguably was the most consistent offensive weapon and Luck's go to guy. Can attack the seams and a good blocker.

Brian Quick, WR 4yr/22MM. Another big target for Eli at 6'4". Quick is only 27 years old and ooozes with potential. We all know that Eli throws high so Quick and Doyle can help with our shorties at WR.

It looks like a signing binge, but it essentially replaces UFAs and cut players while saving a big of salary from those leaving. All years and dollars for FA signings are "market value" based on Spotrac.

The focus of the offseason was to strengthen the line/TE with an emphasis on the running game to allow Eli balance on offense, his deadly play action game and allow the defense to even be better so as to not wear down. All relatively realistic signings and not very expensive.

NOW, to my crazy (unrealistic thought). In business, the thinking is always sell high. I know many (myself included) don't believe that it is realistic but it may make both football and business sense. The average salary for Elite WRs in 2017 (before AB gets paid) is 15MM a year. OBJ will likely command around 17MM a year or more with AB likely eclipsing that. To me, paying that much for a WR is just too much for the position even one as explosive as OBJ. So......

First - Trade Odell Becham Jr. (and this year's 4th round pick) to the Cleveland Browns for their second 1st pick in the draft (#12 overall), Joe Thomas, Isiah Crowell, RB (who is a RFA only 24 yrs old and CLE has 2 very good RBs in Jackson and Johnson) and CLE 4rd round pick in 2018. Outside of Antonio Brown, OBJ is the most electric WR in the league so the value doesn't seem insane, and if OBJ keeps up his incredible production likley a HOFer.

I think OBJ can fetch at least 2 first round picks in any realistic trade and I didn't try to suggest the #1 overall pick that CLE also has. OBJ will always be able to fill a stadium. The Browns have zero star appeal and there aren't any "elite" potential QBs in this draft. Neither Thomas, even given what he has accomplished nor Crowell is the reason why fans go to the stadium if they go at all. Pairing OBJ with Coleman, Pryor (if re-signed) and their TE would be interesting (recognizing that they have no OLINE) but they have 2 other very very good RBs in Darius Jackson and Duke Johnson.

At age 32 going on 33 Thomas is probably worth a mid level round pick but would instantly upgrade our LT position for a couple of seasons. Dude made the pro bowl every single year since he's been in the NFL and has NEVER missed a single SNAP. He has a good 2-3 good years left as would Eli.

And Crowell is a very serviceable RB. The 3 headed monster of thunder (Lacy), lightening (Crowell) and Wind (Perkins) should help the running game especially with improved OLINE.

The Giants are a team that doesn't like drama. They traded away Shockey when he started with his antics and waited a year or two too late before doing so. They got a second round pick. I LOVE what OBJ brings to the table and want him to retire a Giant but the Maras, McAdoo and Reese may want to sell high if they think that the drama will continue or OBJ will implode. If Detroit could land a 1st, 3rd and 6th from Dallas for an at-the-time bust- in Roy Williams, this trade looks cheap. Again, OBJ should command at least 2 #1 picks IMHO. It is like our version of the blockbuster Hershel Walker trade of years past.


With the first pick (#12), the NY Football Giants select..

1) Derek Barnett, DE TENN- A freak of an athlete who reminds me of a bulked up Von Miller I believe that Barnett will be the better player between he and Myles Garrett. Barnett will likely slip from teams (like the Giants) who like the tall long armed DEs (see short-arm Brandon Graham), but this kid not only is an incredible pass rusher but he plays the run really well. Heck, he even can run our in coverage. In 18 SEC games that both he and Garrett played, Garrett notched 11 sacks and 17 TFLs. Barnett had 21 sacks and 32.5 TFLs. This kid is the truth. He is a leader and his football IQ is off the charts. Plays with great passion to fire up the defense. He broke Reggie White's record which speaks volumes. He is still young at 21 and can learn and refine his pass rush moves. With very little behind OV and JPP, we need more pass rushers which was a weakness down the stretch. OO isn't very good. Okwara needs to still develop and Wynn is more of a run stuffer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkkJsrCURnc


1) with our second first round pick (#23),

Taak McKinley, DE/OLB, UCLA TAAK meet DAK! Ok, so you are probably saying, WHUT? another DE, are you crazy? Yes another DE. Except TAAK usually stands up as a rusher and can be our elephant like Kiwi use to play and basically be our SAM LB in base but be the 4th ACE in the 4DE sets along with JPP, OV, TAAK and Barnett. Our pass rush had a tough time and was inconsistent last year. With the offenses in the NFC (Dallas OLINE, GB OLINE and ATL OLINE), getting constant pressure is a must. This draft is incredible strong with pass rushers -- a rarity in this day and age. If you can stack up on young pass rushers now, especially with such a weak OLine draft class you take BPA. Kennard to move to MIKE and back up both SAM and MIKE.

2) With the second round pick...

John Ross, WR, WSH. This kid is not just fast, but he has game changing ability at WR or KR/PR. He has the ability to take the top off of the defense and has been compared to Desean Jackson (but a little bigger). Some may say that he will go in the 1st round, but that is what people thought about D-Jax as well. Historically, these smallish, light, fast receivers do not get selected in the 1st round, plus, he is also have shoulder surgery to repair a torn labrum after the combine so I think that his stock slips a bit. Getting a weapon to threaten the defense regardless if defenses play cover 2 is pretty nice. Watching him play is like watching a video game he is so much faster than anyone on the field. He is a playmaker with the ball in his hands at WR or as a returner and is an absolute blur in the open field.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJWauEzbIJQ


3)Cameron Sutton, CB TENN. Cam missed most of the 2016 season with a broken bone in his ankle but apparently should be good to go. I think that he is borderline 1-2 round talent and would instantly upgrade our slot position. We were exposed on the backend with Trevin Wade playing slot after DRC got hurt. Much like DEs you can never have enough CBs and this kid can play. DRC should return as well and not be cut. This kid can heal up, play ST and learn until DRC moves on-- great mentor for him. This kid can over, plays zone well, Spags would love him because he blitzes well and plays the run. Bonus plus that he also is a returner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q_2SaQnalk


4) Pick Traded to CLE in OBJ trade.

With the 5th round pick.....

5) Tim Williams, OLB/DE Alabama. This one is a controversial pick as he is the Randy Gregory of this draft. Many teams have him off of their board entirely. A 1st round talent with a weed problem. I only consider this selection because the NFL is apparently looking to relax the marijuana policy. He also has a misdemeanor gun charge carrying without a permit. Knucklehead for sure. There is no denying the talent. He is a great pass rusher who I think can also play SAM LB role envisioned for Kiwi years ago but is best on the DLINE. Hey, he wears #56. You guys must be thinking GEE MEN lost his mind. All of these DEs? Well, in our hey day, we carried Strahan, Kiwi, Osi and Tuck. JPP is already 28 years old and putting aside the firecracker incident, JPP has had injury issues for a few seasons. Depth is critical and again, this draft is stacked with DEs. Why not? We need to harass Dak, Rodgers, Ryan, Wilson for NFC Supremacy. We saw how we faltered in the end with no pass rush and JPP hurt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9wTtXm9PtA

With the 6th round pick...

6) Eric Smith, OT Virginia. Smith played both tackle positions at VA and projects to play inside as well. The Giants like versatile linemen and he can learn a year or so.

7) Patrick Towles, QB, BC. The Giants had an affinity with BC players from Coughlin's days. Towles is a big kid with a good arm but inconsistent and will need coaching up.

I acknowledge unrealistic. Reese never really makes splashy trades. My thinking was to improve the OLINE and running game by getting proven commodities in the last years of Eli. Those moves (outside of the trade that includes Crowell) are realistic. Our offense and defense would be balanced. Maybe not as flashy without OBJ but Eli has done alot with alot less. He never has had an elite WR. Sell HIGH! In the draft I went heavy on the Defense because while our defense played outstanding this past season we saw that there is very little depth should a starter go down and the pass rush was inconsistent until it faltered. Eli will see Brady one more time before he retires. We can't gas out the way ATL did when they couldn't touch Brady in the 4th QTR.
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Desperado82 wrote:
I will never defend Romo again. I'm done. We may only have a shot at the playoffs or what have you because of him, but he will NEVER put us over the hump.
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a longer post written out, but of course I deleted it.

So if you want to make the idiotic move to trade OBJ it means the Eli era is over and we are in full rebuild mode. Acquiring Thomas won't help.
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GEE MEN


Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 4597
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acgott wrote:
I had a longer post written out, but of course I deleted it.

So if you want to make the idiotic move to trade OBJ it means the Eli era is over and we are in full rebuild mode. Acquiring Thomas won't help.


Over? rebuild mode? Really? Eli has never had a super star WR in his career and won 2 Super Bowls. In 2007 the deadly weapons at WR were Amani Toomer, Sinorice Moss, Plax, Dominik Hixon, Tyree and the rookie Steve Smith. In 2011, it was Nicks, Cruz, Jerrel Jernigan, Devin Thomas and Manningham. Good receivers but not superstars. Back then the offense was centered around a good, not great offensive line which protected ok and ran the ball. And a pretty good defense. With our defense, sure up the OLINE, get a good bell cow and pieces for the future on a very thin with depth defensive line. Idiotic? Rebuild? You ignored all of the other proposed moves in FA and draft pics and view the team in it's entirety while just focusing on Thomas. The OLINE was essentially re-built with serviceable running backs and a very good TE, but you only focus on Thomas who by the way is still playing at a pro bowl level.

It is the kind of move that Bill Belichick would do in a heartbeat. I guess that is why our former DC is a genius and we stubbornly stayed with 2 tackles that cost Eli another year opportunity for his 3rd ring.

It isn't a crazy thought. 6 years ago before there was an Antonio Brown or an OBJ there was Santonio Holmes. Super Bowl MVP who was the most electric WR then. And the Steelers traded him away. I don't think Reese has the chutzpah to trade OBJ for a boat load of value but to suggest that the Eli era is over and we'd be in rebuild mode is beyond silly considering Eli's history with average to above average WRs who often led the league in dropped passes.
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Desperado82 wrote:
I will never defend Romo again. I'm done. We may only have a shot at the playoffs or what have you because of him, but he will NEVER put us over the hump.
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redsoxsuck05


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm cringing at your logic to trade OBJ. First of all, the return is absolutely pitiful.

Oh...and we should trade OBJ because we won with lesser talent at the position? Ok so why not trade Eli because we won in 1990 with Jeff Hostetler? And your assessment of the 2011 team is wayyyyy offbase and you're clearly stretching to fit your narrative. Cruz had 1500+ yards in 15 games that year and Nicks was a legit #1 WR. Our O-Line, running game, and defense were garbage that year. They stepped up in the playoffs, but the receivers were the strength of that team throughout.

I think the 2011 team actually disproves your point. Every championship team is built differently and we do not need to view our positional strengths in exact accordance to a team that played 10 years ago.

I can't get over how awful that return is. All because you arbitrarily decided that WR is the one position where salaries can't trend upward because of inflation/TV money. You're never going to acquire/retain premium talent if you think of the cap as it was 5 years ago.
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Acgott


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh, you are really going to make me respond...

Using stats from ten years ago is always a great way to make your point.

Eli can't carry a team anymore. He needs a lot of help. He is a 36 year old QB whose past his prime coming off a bad season. Since 2014 Eli has a 82.8 passer rating when not throwing to OBJ and 113 when throwing to OBJ

Your brilliant solution is to trade that player, a 24 year old superstar who we can have under contract for 2 more seasons for a total of 15M. You trade that player for a OT, 8 years old than our superstar.

You discuss that Eli never had a star WR, but good solid wide receivers. Then you make the big moves to help our aging QB. You sign Brian Quick as our new #1. A man oozing with potential as you say... at age 28 is going to make that big jump. A man in 5 seasons has 200 more yards than OBJ had in 2016

To team with Quick and Sheppard you draft, John Ross. I don't watch CFB so I won't comment on this much but i do see he is having shoulder surgery. It probably won't affect much, but it will hurt the valuable practice rep with Eli. With a hundred new pieces each practice is extremely valuable

O'Doyle rules! Jack Doyle comes out of nowhere and becomes Andrew Luck's most reliable target. Ok then...

You want to emphasize the power run game and you sign Eddie Lacy. You say he is "young" but in reality Lacy is past his prime, has weight and injury concerns

Quick, Sheppard, Ross, Doyle, Lacy, Perkins... That offense doesn't come close to any of Super Bowl rosters

Santonio Holmes was traded because of his legal problems and his off field issues not on field issues.

You make it seem that Belicheck has made legendary trades, but I'll argue that most have been poor for the Patriots.

Some of your individual moves may make sense, but certainly not together
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Gmen


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quick, Sheppard, Ross, Doyle, Lacy, Perkins... That offense doesn't come close to any of Super Bowl rosters

This.

You've always thought outside the box GEEMEN, but trading OBJ is absolutely nuts. I know fans, myself included, get frustrated with the distractions but he's a top 5 WR in this league. Guys like him don't grow on trees. We need to build around him, not get rid of him. We have a ton of needs on offense as it is. OL, TE, RB, WR. Getting rid of OBJ just adds more holes.

And then you draft two passrushers? You realize how much we're paying Vernon and how much JPP is going to cost? The defense was great last year. It's the offense that did us in, and this offseason makes the offense worse.
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- Ernie Accorsi scouting report of Eli
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WiscoBlue21


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Love the Leary signing, him at RG with Pugh and Richburg is a great interior line. Draft a LT in the first round (Don't trade OBJ)
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Shockey_80


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there Any Way we Can just delete this post altogether>> Lol TRADE ODB?!?!?!? GTFOH Excuse my Espanol
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ohiogenius


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That trade makes no sense.

I doubt the Browns who have a crappy oline will want to lose the best player.

The only thing I could think of would be

Cleveland Gives:
Joe Thomas
Terelle Pryor
Isaiah Crowell
#12 overall

New York Gives:
Odell Beckham Jr
#23
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cortes02 wrote:
Would JPP fit in the 3-4??

Peace!!!

If you're referring to fingers on his glove, the answer is yes.
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