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Elliot878 Denver Broncos Mock Offseason V1
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BowserBroncos


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
Yea Wisconsins coach recruited Ramczyk to play at Pitt when he was there. Ramczyk wanted time off, went to a local trade school, then a small school in WI... Wisconsins coach came back to Wisconsin, got in touch with Ramczyk, got him to UW and immediately penciled him in as his LT as soon as he was eligible.

The fact that coach still wanted Ramczyk after he burned him a few years ago, and that he immediately penciled him in as his LT says something. Guy knew what he had in Ramczyk and Ramczyk lived up to what that coach thought he was and then some.

I can get passed the "one year" label when things go down like that. The only red flag in Ramczyk's story is how much does he love football if he wanted some time off?


And the injury too would be a red flag, Broncos would be better by avoinding OT at least until 3rd round.....sign two OT in FA and grab play makers like O.J. Howard or Christian McCaffrey


Last edited by BowserBroncos on Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
I guess I just don't understand how a one-year wonder in Ryan Ramczyk is automatically a better fit for the offense than OJ Howard. It's been very clear from the top down that this offense lacks playmakers. Our TEs might be "good enough" but frankly, McCoy got more out of a rookie in Hunter Henry than we've gotten out of TE in a loooooong time. OJ Howard is a much better prospect than Henry.

TE is a need. It's not as pressing as OT, I agree, but Howard is a better prospect than Ramczyk. Just because Ramczyk is the best OT in an awful class doesn't make him a better prospect IMO.


I'd pick Ramczyk over Howard due to need. I agree Howard is the better talent but I don't think Howard a talent you can maximize without improved OL play.

Ramczyk makes this team, which is in win now mode, and still in a Super Bowl window, better in multiple areas - he improves your QB play, and the run game from day one.

Howard's prob the more likely to become a pro bowl, all pro, or HOF player - but Elway is drafting to win another SB, and I don't think it can be argued that with how the roster is currently constructed, an OT improves this team far more than a TE would.

That said I don't think I'd take Cam or Bolles over Howard.
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BowserBroncos


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
I guess I just don't understand how a one-year wonder in Ryan Ramczyk is automatically a better fit for the offense than OJ Howard. It's been very clear from the top down that this offense lacks playmakers. Our TEs might be "good enough" but frankly, McCoy got more out of a rookie in Hunter Henry than we've gotten out of TE in a loooooong time. OJ Howard is a much better prospect than Henry.

TE is a need. It's not as pressing as OT, I agree, but Howard is a better prospect than Ramczyk. Just because Ramczyk is the best OT in an awful class doesn't make him a better prospect IMO.


I'd pick Ramczyk over Howard due to need. I agree Howard is the better talent but I don't think Howard a talent you can maximize without improved OL play.

Ramczyk makes this team, which is in win now mode, and still in a Super Bowl window, better in multiple areas - he improves your QB play, and the run game from day one.

Howard's prob the more likely to become a pro bowl, all pro, or HOF player - but Elway is drafting to win another SB, and I don't think it can be argued that with how the roster is currently constructed, an OT improves this team far more than a TE would.

That said I don't think I'd take Cam or Bolles over Howard.


I'd take everyone over Ramczyk, Cam or Bolles, our youngs QB need more weapons than DT and Sanders, we can find OTs on free agency more easier and at more fair price than play makers
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
I guess I just don't understand how a one-year wonder in Ryan Ramczyk is automatically a better fit for the offense than OJ Howard. It's been very clear from the top down that this offense lacks playmakers. Our TEs might be "good enough" but frankly, McCoy got more out of a rookie in Hunter Henry than we've gotten out of TE in a loooooong time. OJ Howard is a much better prospect than Henry.

TE is a need. It's not as pressing as OT, I agree, but Howard is a better prospect than Ramczyk. Just because Ramczyk is the best OT in an awful class doesn't make him a better prospect IMO.


I'd pick Ramczyk over Howard due to need. I agree Howard is the better talent but I don't think Howard a talent you can maximize without improved OL play.

Ramczyk makes this team, which is in win now mode, and still in a Super Bowl window, better in multiple areas - he improves your QB play, and the run game from day one.

Howard's prob the more likely to become a pro bowl, all pro, or HOF player - but Elway is drafting to win another SB, and I don't think it can be argued that with how the roster is currently constructed, an OT improves this team far more than a TE would.

That said I don't think I'd take Cam or Bolles over Howard.


Sorry man, but there's no way this logic will ever make sense to me. If Howard has potential to be an all-pro and fills a need of some sort, it would be ridiculous not to take him. Obviously OT as of now is a more pressing need than TE, but to say that TE is not a need is untrue, and just taking an OT even if he isn't as good a prospect is what bad teams do.

You're right, Elway is drafting to win another SB, but if Howard helps in the run and pass game a bit now AND down the line, what makes him a worse choice than Ramcyzk? It's a lot of preference, but I think it's misguided to target an OT in round 1 when the class is weak.

Denver is picking high (relative to their past 1st rounders) and has a ton of ammo to move up. The goal should be a player with a high floor as a rookie with elite potential. That is not any of the OTs in this class. Honestly, maybe Bolles, but his age concerns me. Denver needs talent and contributors offensively or defensively. I don't hate Ramcyzk depending on who is there for us to draft, but if guys like Howard, McCaffrey, McDowell, Foster, Tabor are avaialble...I'm not sure how you can justify passing one of them up.
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BroncoBruin


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty simple to me. If you feel good about your tackles after free agency, you'd take Howard or whoever is BPA. If you don't, you almost have to take the tackle if you want to compete this year.
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BowserBroncos


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncoBruin wrote:
Pretty simple to me. If you feel good about your tackles after free agency, you'd take Howard or whoever is BPA. If you don't, you almost have to take the tackle if you want to compete this year.


still would prefer to pick Dion Dawkins, Antonio Garcia or Taylor Moton on round 2 or 3.

Ramczyk, Cam or Bolles are not that good that will be a lot better than this 3 others.

we need sign OT like Whithorth, Rick Wagner, Menelik Watson and/or Matt Kalil to compete this year
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BroncosFan2010


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
we need sign OT like Whithorth, Rick Wagner, Menelik Watson and/or Matt Kalil to compete this year


Neither Matt Kalil or Menelik Watson are consistently good enough to be viewed as sign-and-start types. They are the type you bring in to compete with a R2 or R3 rookie.

I can agree that we need to go BPA. I simply don't think that OJ is going to be BPA. I find him extraordinarily overrated. I think Cam would easily be the BPA over OJ at 1.20.
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BowserBroncos


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Quote:
we need sign OT like Whithorth, Rick Wagner, Menelik Watson and/or Matt Kalil to compete this year


Neither Matt Kalil or Menelik Watson are consistently good enough to be viewed as sign-and-start types. They are the type you bring in to compete with a R2 or R3 rookie.

I can agree that we need to go BPA. I simply don't think that OJ is going to be BPA. I find him extraordinarily overrated. I think Cam would easily be the BPA over OJ at 1.20.


Matt Kalil is Jeff Davidson guy....his best year, his pro bowl year blocking for the 2000 yards season by AP was under Jeff Davidson....I would prefer to sign Whitworth and Wagner, but I'll take Kalil and Watson

OK, you can think OJ is overrated, but you are overrating Cam, Ramczyk and Bolles because of a need....the 3 would fight to be second rounders last year...this is the worst OL class in ages....there's a lot of guys that will be there at 20 there are better than the OL prospects.

Besides, I bet the pick will be McCaffrey....McCaffrey is great player that would help ours QBs, the run game, the pass game and the retruns....he is also Ed's son, raised in Denver and Elway love some nostalgia in his choices.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
I guess I just don't understand how a one-year wonder in Ryan Ramczyk is automatically a better fit for the offense than OJ Howard. It's been very clear from the top down that this offense lacks playmakers. Our TEs might be "good enough" but frankly, McCoy got more out of a rookie in Hunter Henry than we've gotten out of TE in a loooooong time. OJ Howard is a much better prospect than Henry.

TE is a need. It's not as pressing as OT, I agree, but Howard is a better prospect than Ramczyk. Just because Ramczyk is the best OT in an awful class doesn't make him a better prospect IMO.


I'd pick Ramczyk over Howard due to need. I agree Howard is the better talent but I don't think Howard a talent you can maximize without improved OL play.

Ramczyk makes this team, which is in win now mode, and still in a Super Bowl window, better in multiple areas - he improves your QB play, and the run game from day one.

Howard's prob the more likely to become a pro bowl, all pro, or HOF player - but Elway is drafting to win another SB, and I don't think it can be argued that with how the roster is currently constructed, an OT improves this team far more than a TE would.

That said I don't think I'd take Cam or Bolles over Howard.


Sorry man, but there's no way this logic will ever make sense to me. If Howard has potential to be an all-pro and fills a need of some sort, it would be ridiculous not to take him. Obviously OT as of now is a more pressing need than TE, but to say that TE is not a need is untrue, and just taking an OT even if he isn't as good a prospect is what bad teams do.



Yes, Howard may have greater upside - but successful NFL GM's, the types that keep their jobs are not focused on putting "i drafted __ many all-pros" notches on their belts, they're looking to put Super Bowl rings on their fingers.

You're thinking in terms of get the highest potential talent in here with your first round pick --- To me, that's the approach you take if you're not close at all to winning a Super Bowl. I doubt Elway thinks we're that far off from another SB that he wants to just stack talent.

I didn't speculate on Ramczyk's potential, but no reason that he can't be an all-pro or better - there's nothing to suggest he can't be based on how impressive a season he had after taking time off and then jumping up to B1G football from D3. Like I said, you don't take just any tackle in this draft over Howard, but I'd say there's enough upside with Ramczyk that if he's there you take him over Howard given the situation in Denver.

broncos67 wrote:
You're right, Elway is drafting to win another SB, but if Howard helps in the run and pass game a bit now AND down the line, what makes him a worse choice than Ramcyzk? It's a lot of preference, but I think it's misguided to target an OT in round 1 when the class is weak.


If we totally strike out in FA at OT, our hand is basically forced into taking the top tackle on the board, we'll just have to hope it doesn't amount to a Ja'Wuan James type reach that Miami made a few years back.

If we get a top tackle in free agency (although outside Whitworth I'm probably more skeptical of those options than some of the top draft options) then, in my opinion Elway has more freedom in round 1.

Also, I don't think an early TE helps in any way than adding a receiving option. Rookie TE's don't typically offer an upgrade over vets in pass or run blocking. That's a really tough sell to me for an offense that will rely on a run game to move the chains and need huge upgrades in pass protection to maximize their QB's production.

broncos67 wrote:
Denver is picking high (relative to their past 1st rounders) and has a ton of ammo to move up. The goal should be a player with a high floor as a rookie with elite potential. That is not any of the OTs in this class. Honestly, maybe Bolles, but his age concerns me. Denver needs talent and contributors offensively or defensively. I don't hate Ramcyzk depending on who is there for us to draft, but if guys like Howard, McCaffrey, McDowell, Foster, Tabor are avaialble...I'm not sure how you can justify passing one of them up.


I think you're mistaken on Ramczyk. The potential there is extremely high based on time off and how well he performed in a jump from d3 to d1. Guy didn't skip a beat and has all the tools you look for.

As for some of the other names you mention,

-Reuben Foster would be #1 on my big board for Denver, he'll go top 10 though.
-Malik McDowell just doesn't do it for me, as pressing as a need as 5-tech is, there's not enough college production there, I have a major fear that he's being over-hyped based on the potential of his athletic ability and body type
-I love McCaffrey, but 20 is too high for him, I'd look to trade up with out comp picks if he's there early to mid 2nd.
-If we draft Tabor or any CB in the first my head will explode. There's a lot of speculation on this forum about Talib being cut after next year, which just has no chance of happening unless he does something really dumb (wouldn't put it passed him) or his play falls of a cliff... so the perceived need in this forum at CB is overblown, imo.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am with AKRNA on Bolles...I like the mean streak he seems to play with. I think the Broncos need to get just as nasty on offense the way they are on defense...where you have a TJ Ward or a Talib who isn't afraid to ruffle some feathers of the opponent.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To your point Elliot- agree to disagree on TE roles and draft strategy.

To the point about CB, it is most definitely a need. Talib is hovering around that age where play drops off dramatically. Roby is a good bet to have his option exercised, but when Talib didn't play this year Roby got beaten like a drum. He's a part of the equation long-term I would imagine, but Talib's antics may wear thin on a new coach. His play could also decline. It's not as if he's 25, he's gonna be 32 and making like $14MM. CB has been our bread and butter, it's better to keep the cupboard stocked and give us some options, especially considering we are spending a huge chunk opf cap on something like 21 guys next year.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
To your point Elliot- agree to disagree on TE roles and draft strategy.

To the point about CB, it is most definitely a need. Talib is hovering around that age where play drops off dramatically. Roby is a good bet to have his option exercised, but when Talib didn't play this year Roby got beaten like a drum. He's a part of the equation long-term I would imagine, but Talib's antics may wear thin on a new coach. His play could also decline. It's not as if he's 25, he's gonna be 32 and making like $14MM. CB has been our bread and butter, it's better to keep the cupboard stocked and give us some options, especially considering we are spending a huge chunk opf cap on something like 21 guys next year.


With our needs and a deep CB class, I'll be pretty upset if we use a top 20 pick on a CB.
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