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Possible Replacements for Jeffery
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AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will say this - if they really let Jeffery walk then the idea of trading a whole bunch for Garoppolo to be able to compete this year becomes even more preposterous.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
I will say this - if they really let Jeffery walk then the idea of trading a whole bunch for Garoppolo to be able to compete this year becomes even more preposterous.


The tag was our leverage, we lost out to the highest bidder.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft

jrry32 wrote:
apples

When the defense allowed 20 pts or fewer, the Cutler-led Bears were 36-7
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Sugashane


Joined: 06 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="G08"]
AZBearsFan wrote:
I will say this - if they really let Jeffery walk then the idea of trading a whole bunch for Garoppolo to be able to compete this year becomes even more preposterous.


The tag was our leverage, we lost out to the highest bidder.[/quote

Exactly. At worst he should have been part of a package deal to get someone else. Tyrod, Jimmy, McCarron, or even someone who might be on another franchise like Pryor.

Letting him walk puts a hell of a lot of pressure on Pace. Hope he looks like a genius in a few years rather than a doof.
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G08


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose he could have always told Alshon, "Go find your best offer and come back to me and we'll see if we can match it."
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft

jrry32 wrote:
apples

When the defense allowed 20 pts or fewer, the Cutler-led Bears were 36-7
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AZBearsFan


Joined: 04 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
I suppose he could have always told Alshon, "Go find your best offer and come back to me and we'll see if we can match it."

If that's the deal then put the transition tag on him. At least you assure yourself the right to match. No compensation if you don't which is where we are anyway if we don't franchise him again, but it lets him truly get market value without him leaving. Could be a really effective tool to resolve a value impasse while still controlling the situation. With $75M in cap room it's not like we couldn't match whatever he gets. It'd have to be something the other side could live with too should we not match.

Can you still transition tag a guy the year after the franchise tag?
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really had no intention of even negotiating a deal with him, why not trade him last season at the deadline when the season was in the toilet.

A 3rd round pick would have made it worth while.
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John Fox
3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
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wiscbearsfan


Joined: 06 May 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
wiscbearsfan wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
The problem is you do not get a ton of patience in the NFL and 9-23 is shockingly pathetic.

I expect they will attempt to spend this offseason, but whether they are successful in landing players will be a huge question.


There is no denying that the record stinks but again it all comes down to reality and expectations.

Perhaps too many Bears fans had lofty expectations that were either too unrealistic or unattainable given the current state of the team when both Pace & Fox took over the hole that Emery and Trestman turned this all into.


What you want to see is progression. Some kind of plan to rebuild. No, it doesn't happen overnight and takes time.

Just look at the Cubs when they brought in Theo Epstein. He was one of the best front office minds in baseball and he brought a slew of talented people with him. They had a plan, they gave everyone a realistic timeline for what they were doing and they went out and executed.

On the flip side, the McCaskeys are idiots, Ted Phillips should be nowhere near a pro-football team. Ryan Pace actually seemed to have some cred and said a lot of the right things when he got here but whatever plan he had doesn't seem to be cohesive and his picks so far have been mostly suspect.

During the Cubs rebuild you could objectively look at what they were doing and see things happening. I know we are talking two different sports here with clear differences in player development but at the same time what has happened so far that we can point to that says the Bears are actually on the right path to becoming a legitimate Super Bowl contender. That is the one and only goal that matters.

Please, someone point me to something Ryan Pace has done or is doing that shows a light at the end of the tunnel?


How about giving him a little credit for drafting guys like Leonard Floyd, Cody Whitehair, Jordan Howard (5th round Pro Bowler), Deiondre Hall and Eddie Goldman? Yes I know his 1st pick ever in Kevin White has been a disappointment due to unforeseen injuries, but no way we can blame Pace for that, plus there is still hope that he turns out to be something.

How about signing UDFA's such as Bryce Callahan, Crevon Leblanc, Roy Robertson-Harris? These guys all look to be key future contributors.

How about signing impact free agents such as Jerrell Freeman, Josh Sitton, Pernell McPhee (when healthy), Danny Trevethan (when healthy). Again, we can't really blame Pace for the injuries or suspensions. Those are things that are not fully in his control.

So while there's been some things that Pace could have done better and deserves criticism on, namely getting the QB position sorted out earlier, why not give him a little credit where it's due and quit being so cynical? I'd say he's done a pretty decent job so far considering everything and the state this team was in when he took over. He's also had some unfortunate bad luck that has prevented his resume from looking better than it is.


Upon re-reading what I typed I realize I meant to include FA signings in with picks for my "mostly suspect" line when I was in the middle of my rant. The picks have certainly not been all terrible.

That being said you are way higher on a lot of his overall moves than I am. And I'm not even against the White pick. I think it was the right move at the time and this has been largely a case of bad luck.

Jordan Howard is indeed a great pick. Whitehair and Goldman, yeah he landed some guys who can really play. But lets not get carried away here. There are still plenty of question marks surrounding various picks and we don't know how year two, three and beyond are going to go.

And your entire list of FA signings makes me depressed. It's filled with injury plagued players, guys who missed time due to PED suspension and/or on the backside of their careers.

If this list is the future the Bears are doomed.
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gah112


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO Akiem Hicks was Pace's best free agent signing and the Bears should look to extend him at some point.
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZBearsFan wrote:
G08 wrote:
I suppose he could have always told Alshon, "Go find your best offer and come back to me and we'll see if we can match it."

If that's the deal then put the transition tag on him. At least you assure yourself the right to match. No compensation if you don't which is where we are anyway if we don't franchise him again, but it lets him truly get market value without him leaving. Could be a really effective tool to resolve a value impasse while still controlling the situation. With $75M in cap room it's not like we couldn't match whatever he gets. It'd have to be something the other side could live with too should we not match.

Can you still transition tag a guy the year after the franchise tag?


Yes you can. The problem with that idea is that no other team is going to offer Alshon a long term deal on the transition tag because then they would have to give up two 1st round picks for him plus a huge contract. Not happening.

If the Bears true intention is to let Alshon test the market before making their final offer then it makes sense not to tag him because doing so would give Alshon more leverage and less incentive to get a long term deal done if he doesn't love the Bears offer and the Bears obviously don't want to be on the hook for another $16-17 million guaranteed for him this year. Ideally they'd like to spread the money out on a longer deal, which would decrease their risk in the event he gets hurt or suspended again.

There's still a chance he comes back people. No need to be all doom and gloom just yet.


Last edited by topwop1 on Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiscbearsfan wrote:
Upon re-reading what I typed I realize I meant to include FA signings in with picks for my "mostly suspect" line when I was in the middle of my rant. The picks have certainly not been all terrible.

That being said you are way higher on a lot of his overall moves than I am. And I'm not even against the White pick. I think it was the right move at the time and this has been largely a case of bad luck.

Jordan Howard is indeed a great pick. Whitehair and Goldman, yeah he landed some guys who can really play. But lets not get carried away here. There are still plenty of question marks surrounding various picks and we don't know how year two, three and beyond are going to go.

And your entire list of FA signings makes me depressed. It's filled with injury plagued players, guys who missed time due to PED suspension and/or on the backside of their careers.

If this list is the future the Bears are doomed.


I actually forgot to include Akiem Hicks who was probably one of the best signings if not THE best in all of FA last year. Pace deserves kudos for that.

But what are you really expecting wisc? Ask yourself if you are really being fair and realistic here in thinking that a GM should be hitting on all of his draft picks and FA signings. In a perfect world maybe but this never happens in the NFL. I'd say as long as they are hitting at around a 50% clip then you are in good shape.

Even the best franchises in this league whether we're talking New England, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, etc. all make mistakes each year and aren't perfect...

Maybe we need to temper our expectations a bit.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
No one has declared 2015 a bust.

As I said it has produced one solid starting player. That fact simply cannot be argued.

Amos is a backup level player and not very good.


Man some of you are so quick to over react to things that were not even written.


Well I'm sorry but that's exactly what you are insinuating when you make comments like his 2015 draft class has produced 1 solid starter and that you expect Kevin White will end up being a bust..

I still stand by the notion that some of you guys overreact way too easily.

And if Amos is such a poor backup level player then why hasn't he been easily replaced yet? It shouldn't be too hard to replace a guy like that based on how you are describing him.
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wiscbearsfan


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
wiscbearsfan wrote:
Upon re-reading what I typed I realize I meant to include FA signings in with picks for my "mostly suspect" line when I was in the middle of my rant. The picks have certainly not been all terrible.

That being said you are way higher on a lot of his overall moves than I am. And I'm not even against the White pick. I think it was the right move at the time and this has been largely a case of bad luck.

Jordan Howard is indeed a great pick. Whitehair and Goldman, yeah he landed some guys who can really play. But lets not get carried away here. There are still plenty of question marks surrounding various picks and we don't know how year two, three and beyond are going to go.

And your entire list of FA signings makes me depressed. It's filled with injury plagued players, guys who missed time due to PED suspension and/or on the backside of their careers.

If this list is the future the Bears are doomed.


I actually forgot to include Akiem Hicks who was probably one of the best signings if not THE best in all of FA last year. Pace deserves kudos for that.

But what are you really expecting wisc? Ask yourself if you are really being fair and realistic here in thinking that a GM should be hitting on all of his draft picks and FA signings. In a perfect world maybe but this never happens in the NFL. I'd say as long as they are hitting at around a 50% clip then you are in good shape.

Even the best franchises in this league whether we're talking New England, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, etc. all make mistakes each year and aren't perfect...

Maybe we need to temper our expectations a bit.


Fair enough. Hicks was a great signing. Perhaps it's not all doom and gloom.

I guess I've just gotten to the point where I have higher expectations from the franchise as a whole. The McCaskeys and Phillips are a joke but perhaps Pace is the right guy. It's just that I see the Alshon situation and can't help but think it's been horribly bungled. Why wasn't he given a high dollar extension prior to the first tag and if not before why was a long term extension not hammered out after tagging but before the season began? Now you are letting him leave for NOTHING and that's just plain bad business. Once these tags and extensions get hammered out amongst the leagues top FA's to be Alshon is by all accounts at or in the conversation for the very best free agent on the market. The Bears, a team that has tons of cap space and little to no depth at WR even with Alshon are letting him walk out the door. Top 5 free agent easy. Gone. For NOTHING.

I understand running Marshall out of town for being a cancer. I understand the Bennett situation too even though that one could have been avoided. Now Jeffrey? All of their best offensive threats are gone and we are left with John Fox and his grinning face fawning over his pro bowl* rookie RB.

This is a passing league and the Bears have no QB and no WR's.

John Fox is old and the game has probably passed him by. My gut tells me that he has too much say in personnel decisions.

I may not be giving Pace enough credit where it's due but that's because the big picture shows some serious issues.

*Pro Bowl alternates/replacements are pseudo Pro Bowlers given the high number of players injured or not participating that create additional spots.
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dll2000


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reported that Pryor isn't going to be tagged. Go get him Pace. Huge upside.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dll2000 wrote:
Reported that Pryor isn't going to be tagged. Go get him Pace. Huge upside.


If they miss out on re-signing Jeffery then Pryor would be a nice consolation.
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wiscbearsfan


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mind boggling to watch the Fox presser and hear him talk about how they have to get better at the skill positions - WR/TE specifically- and yet they are pretty much set to lose Alshon for nothing.
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