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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16478
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is you do not get a ton of patience in the NFL and 9-23 is shockingly pathetic.

I expect they will attempt to spend this offseason, but whether they are successful in landing players will be a huge question.
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John Fox
3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 7789
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
The problem is you do not get a ton of patience in the NFL and 9-23 is shockingly pathetic.

I expect they will attempt to spend this offseason, but whether they are successful in landing players will be a huge question.


There is no denying that the record stinks but again it all comes down to reality and expectations.

Perhaps too many Bears fans had lofty expectations that were either too unrealistic or unattainable given the current state of the team when both Pace & Fox took over the hole that Emery and Trestman turned this all into.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16478
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
The problem is you do not get a ton of patience in the NFL and 9-23 is shockingly pathetic.

I expect they will attempt to spend this offseason, but whether they are successful in landing players will be a huge question.


There is no denying that the record stinks but again it all comes down to reality and expectations.

Perhaps too many Bears fans had lofty expectations that were either too unrealistic or unattainable given the current state of the team when both Pace & Fox took over the hole that Emery and Trestman turned this all into.


I knew they were bad.

But 9-23 is really bad and coaches do not survive a 3 year run at the level of bad.

Unless they are Gus Bradley.
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wiscbearsfan


Joined: 06 May 2006
Posts: 6571
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
The problem is you do not get a ton of patience in the NFL and 9-23 is shockingly pathetic.

I expect they will attempt to spend this offseason, but whether they are successful in landing players will be a huge question.


There is no denying that the record stinks but again it all comes down to reality and expectations.

Perhaps too many Bears fans had lofty expectations that were either too unrealistic or unattainable given the current state of the team when both Pace & Fox took over the hole that Emery and Trestman turned this all into.


What you want to see is progression. Some kind of plan to rebuild. No, it doesn't happen overnight and takes time.

Just look at the Cubs when they brought in Theo Epstein. He was one of the best front office minds in baseball and he brought a slew of talented people with him. They had a plan, they gave everyone a realistic timeline for what they were doing and they went out and executed.

On the flip side, the McCaskeys are idiots, Ted Phillips should be nowhere near a pro-football team. Ryan Pace actually seemed to have some cred and said a lot of the right things when he got here but whatever plan he had doesn't seem to be cohesive and his picks so far have been mostly suspect.

During the Cubs rebuild you could objectively look at what they were doing and see things happening. I know we are talking two different sports here with clear differences in player development but at the same time what has happened so far that we can point to that says the Bears are actually on the right path to becoming a legitimate Super Bowl contender. That is the one and only goal that matters.

Please, someone point me to something Ryan Pace has done or is doing that shows a light at the end of the tunnel?
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 7789
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiscbearsfan wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
The problem is you do not get a ton of patience in the NFL and 9-23 is shockingly pathetic.

I expect they will attempt to spend this offseason, but whether they are successful in landing players will be a huge question.


There is no denying that the record stinks but again it all comes down to reality and expectations.

Perhaps too many Bears fans had lofty expectations that were either too unrealistic or unattainable given the current state of the team when both Pace & Fox took over the hole that Emery and Trestman turned this all into.


What you want to see is progression. Some kind of plan to rebuild. No, it doesn't happen overnight and takes time.

Just look at the Cubs when they brought in Theo Epstein. He was one of the best front office minds in baseball and he brought a slew of talented people with him. They had a plan, they gave everyone a realistic timeline for what they were doing and they went out and executed.

On the flip side, the McCaskeys are idiots, Ted Phillips should be nowhere near a pro-football team. Ryan Pace actually seemed to have some cred and said a lot of the right things when he got here but whatever plan he had doesn't seem to be cohesive and his picks so far have been mostly suspect.

During the Cubs rebuild you could objectively look at what they were doing and see things happening. I know we are talking two different sports here with clear differences in player development but at the same time what has happened so far that we can point to that says the Bears are actually on the right path to becoming a legitimate Super Bowl contender. That is the one and only goal that matters.

Please, someone point me to something Ryan Pace has done or is doing that shows a light at the end of the tunnel?


How about giving him a little credit for drafting guys like Leonard Floyd, Cody Whitehair, Jordan Howard (5th round Pro Bowler), Deiondre Hall and Eddie Goldman? Yes I know his 1st pick ever in Kevin White has been a disappointment due to unforeseen injuries, but no way we can blame Pace for that, plus there is still hope that he turns out to be something.

How about signing UDFA's such as Bryce Callahan, Crevon Leblanc, Roy Robertson-Harris? These guys all look to be key future contributors.

How about signing impact free agents such as Jerrell Freeman, Josh Sitton, Pernell McPhee (when healthy), Danny Trevethan (when healthy). Again, we can't really blame Pace for the injuries or suspensions. Those are things that are not fully in his control.

So while there's been some things that Pace could have done better and deserves criticism on, namely getting the QB position sorted out earlier, why not give him a little credit where it's due and quit being so cynical? I'd say he's done a pretty decent job so far considering everything and the state this team was in when he took over. He's also had some unfortunate bad luck that has prevented his resume from looking better than it is.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16478
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pace has made some nice moves.

But at the end of the day your record is what you are judged on and he is a 9-23 GM.

I know that is a simplistic way to look at it, but that is how the NFL operates. When they fire you the excuses are always replaced by the win loss record.
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3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 7789
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Pace has made some nice moves.

But at the end of the day your record is what you are judged on and he is a 9-23 GM.

I know that is a simplistic way to look at it, but that is how the NFL operates. When they fire you the excuses are always replaced by the win loss record.


Yes we know this. But what really matters is if George McCaskey has the patience to let Pace fulfill his vision. The answer appears to be yes.

Everyone else (the fans/media) can complain all they want but at the end of the day this is a business and business owners need to have a vision and realistic expectations in order to have long term success. Maybe George gets that and will let Pace do his thing despite all the outside noise.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16478
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Pace has made some nice moves.

But at the end of the day your record is what you are judged on and he is a 9-23 GM.

I know that is a simplistic way to look at it, but that is how the NFL operates. When they fire you the excuses are always replaced by the win loss record.


Yes we know this. But what really matters is if George McCaskey has the patience to let Pace fulfill his vision. The answer appears to be yes.

Everyone else (the fans/media) can complain all they want but at the end of the day this is a business and business owners need to have a vision and realistic expectations in order to have long term success. Maybe George gets that and will let Pace do his thing despite all the outside noise.


I didn't get the feel that George was overly happy with 60k no shows last season.
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John Fox
3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
Pathetic
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 7789
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
Pace has made some nice moves.

But at the end of the day your record is what you are judged on and he is a 9-23 GM.

I know that is a simplistic way to look at it, but that is how the NFL operates. When they fire you the excuses are always replaced by the win loss record.


Yes we know this. But what really matters is if George McCaskey has the patience to let Pace fulfill his vision. The answer appears to be yes.

Everyone else (the fans/media) can complain all they want but at the end of the day this is a business and business owners need to have a vision and realistic expectations in order to have long term success. Maybe George gets that and will let Pace do his thing despite all the outside noise.


I didn't get the feel that George was overly happy with 60k no shows last season.


Of course he wasn't happy, but the last thing that he needs to do is make short sighted moves just to appease the fan base. The fact remains, there will always be Bears fans who support the team through thick and thin and the Bears will continue to make money regardless due to the NFL's revenue sharing program. Money is not really a concern nor should it be right now.
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gah112


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
Posts: 817
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pace took over a team that hadn't hit the bottom yet. The Bears weren't on their way to the cellar of the NFL because of him.

He's made a few questionable decisions but he's also made several good decisions. Other than the draft selection of Kevin White, I don't see a lot of moves he could have made differently to set this team up with a dramatically better outlook for the 2017 season.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16478
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gah112 wrote:
Pace took over a team that hadn't hit the bottom yet. The Bears weren't on their way to the cellar of the NFL because of him.

He's made a few questionable decisions but he's also made several good decisions. Other than the draft selection of Kevin White, I don't see a lot of moves he could have made differently to set this team up with a dramatically better outlook for the 2017 season.


His 2015 draft has produced 1 solid starting player.
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John Fox
3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
Pathetic
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 7789
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
gah112 wrote:
Pace took over a team that hadn't hit the bottom yet. The Bears weren't on their way to the cellar of the NFL because of him.

He's made a few questionable decisions but he's also made several good decisions. Other than the draft selection of Kevin White, I don't see a lot of moves he could have made differently to set this team up with a dramatically better outlook for the 2017 season.


His 2015 draft has produced 1 solid starting player.


Two actually if you are counting Amos who is what I'd say pretty solid and who's started 30 out of a possible 32 games in his NFL career so far.

And this is as of now. Both White and Grasu have barely played the last couple of seasons primarily due to injury. They still have a chance to make this class worth something more.

How about we give it another year before declaring the rest of the 2015 class a bust?

Man some of you are so quick to jump to conclusions sometimes.
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 16478
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one has declared 2015 a bust.

As I said it has produced one solid starting player. That fact simply cannot be argued.

Amos is a backup level player and not very good.


Man some of you are so quick to over react to things that were not even written.
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3-13 this season, 9-23 overall, 4-12 at home
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Posts: 6857
Location: World Championsville
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
No one has declared 2015 a bust.

As I said it has produced one solid starting player. That fact simply cannot be argued.

Amos is a backup level player and not very good.


Man some of you are so quick to over react to things that were not even written.


Laughing
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft


"I thought it was a stroke of genius. You give [Pace] an A++++ for the move to get Trubisky. That was magnificient." - Bill Polian
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GOGRIESE


Joined: 04 Dec 2006
Posts: 25931
Location: Austin Texas
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G08 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
No one has declared 2015 a bust.

As I said it has produced one solid starting player. That fact simply cannot be argued.

Amos is a backup level player and not very good.


Man some of you are so quick to over react to things that were not even written.


Laughing



The irony is overwhelming Laughing
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