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Ben Roethlisberger vs. Drew Brees
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Which QB are you taking?
Ben Roethlisberger
25%
 25%  [ 21 ]
Drew Brees
74%
 74%  [ 62 ]
Total Votes : 83

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Jlowe22


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 2529
Location: South Mississippi
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaserFocus wrote:
Jlowe22 wrote:
Is Eli Manning also better than Brees? Is Eli Manning better than Aaron Rodgers? Is Big Ben better than Aaron Rodgers?

You know, I wonder if people even watch Brees play. He pulls off late game heroics a LOT, and has a defense that immediately turns around and gives up a last second score. This happened in both the 2010 and 2011 losses. The Saints defense in both games played what was perhaps the worst final few minutes any defense has ever played. They literally got immortalized in infamy against Marshawn Lynch, and gave up TWO fourth quarter TDs to Alex SMith. 2011 49ers, the team that set some kind of record for field goals, because they couldn't ever find the end zone. Against the Saints, thats never a problem.

People put way too much weight on things that a QB has no control over. It the same type of mindset that people believe in magic, and superstitions.



While Eli Manning will be a HOF QB some day, he isn't on the same level as Ben, Brees, and Aaron Rodgers. I never claimed winning was the only requirement for QB evaluation, but it must be factored into consideration.

I agree the QB has minimal impact on his defense, but we can't deny it's the most important position on the field. Too many examples of strong QB play and winning to deny this fact.


Yea, there's also examples of elite defense skull dragging garbage all the way to the Super Bowl. Even when elite QBs win a Super Bowl, they almost always have at very least a top ten defense, or a defense with significant redeemable qualities. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Ben, Eli, even Brees had a defense that excelled at at least something.

The offense is just as important, and QBs are by far the most important piece on offense, which is why great QBs make it to the super bowl. But they very rarely do it with garbage defense. And quite often, they have great balance on both sides of the ball.
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renndawg37


Joined: 01 Feb 2010
Posts: 2916
Location: Toronto, ON
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedRider wrote:
Funny how people bring up Ben's weapons. Yeah, they have always been a bunch of 3rd round or worse picks. Holmes (and if you count Bell, the HB) is the sole exception. Ben's the biggest reason they are as good as they are.

Yet no one brings up the fact that Bree's plays almost all of his games in near perfect weather year in and year out. You could count on your hand the times he has played in poor weather. Heck, Ben probably plays in twice as many bad weather games as Bree's has ever.

Eight of Brees' games every year are played in the Superdome. Another 3 are played in Florida, Georgia's dome, and Carolina. That leaves a possible FIVE games a year that could be played in bad conditions. Chances are high that none of them are. FFS, any great QB could pass for 5K in that weather. Let's see how well Bree's would do if he played in freaking 3 Rivers stadium, possibly the hardest field to play on, for the majority of his games year in and year out.

And before anyone says that it's not Brees' fault that the Saints play in good weather, just know that when he was a FA, he made it clear he would only go to a team that played in good weather.

I'm taking Big Ben.


Lol. Literally the first reply in the thread detailed how Brees never plays in bad conditions...but sure, "no one brings up the fact that Bree's plays almost all of his games in near perfect weather year in and year out."

By the way, Bree's? Really? Is his name Drew Bree and we are discussing his possessions?
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BlaqOptic


Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 43632
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlowe22 wrote:

He wins those games because he has had a great defense through most of his time there. I shouldn't have to point out how throwing a butt load of picks hurts your chances of winning. Ben won a Super Bowl with a 22 passer rating. Ben has at times been straight up carried by top 3 defense. I get that you like him better but don't let it cloud your better judgment.

That people are unable to realize football is a team sport, and the ultimate team sport, and no one individual ever plays more than roughly 50% of the game, boggles my mind.


I'm curious as to when this happened... Like you realize half the reason people respond to you this way is your making up of crap like this...

Again, no issue with Brees being considered better but it's not as huge a gap as you're purporting. Especially when you harp on Ben's Defense but ignore that Brees has always had a great O-Line... (I'm using your same projective/overexagerative logic here).
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tom cody


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going with Brees on this 1.
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Jlowe22


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 2529
Location: South Mississippi
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlaqOptic wrote:
Jlowe22 wrote:

He wins those games because he has had a great defense through most of his time there. I shouldn't have to point out how throwing a butt load of picks hurts your chances of winning. Ben won a Super Bowl with a 22 passer rating. Ben has at times been straight up carried by top 3 defense. I get that you like him better but don't let it cloud your better judgment.

That people are unable to realize football is a team sport, and the ultimate team sport, and no one individual ever plays more than roughly 50% of the game, boggles my mind.


I'm curious as to when this happened... Like you realize half the reason people respond to you this way is your making up of crap like this...

Again, no issue with Brees being considered better but it's not as huge a gap as you're purporting. Especially when you harp on Ben's Defense but ignore that Brees has always had a great O-Line... (I'm using your same projective/overexagerative logic here).


You mean like that Super Bowl he won with a 22 passer rating? Or that AFCCG in 2010 where he passed for 133 yards 0 TDs, 2 picks and a 35 rating?

The argument here is that poster claiming Ben is a better postseason QB, and I just don't see it. I never claimed the gap is large like you're making up, I've never claimed Brees hasn't had an at worst decent o-line and sometimes great, and I couldn't give a rats [inappropriate/removed] how you or anyone else responds to me and I'm certainly not wondering about it.
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LTF


Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 922
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get why the SB XL numbers are thrown into these arguments against Roethlisberger, but he was a 23-year-old kid playing on the biggest of stages. Sure, he got caught up in the moment and played badly, but that doesn't take away from his playoff road performances in Cincinnati, in Indy, and in Denver, especially given he had no running game at all in those last two games and carried the whole offense.

When Brees was around that age he was completing 6 whole yards an attempt, throwing a ton of picks, and getting benched in favor of a 41-year-old Doug Flutie.
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Jlowe22


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 2529
Location: South Mississippi
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LTF wrote:
I get why the SB XL numbers are thrown into these arguments against Roethlisberger, but he was a 23-year-old kid playing on the biggest of stages. Sure, he got caught up in the moment and played badly, but that doesn't take away from his playoff road performances in Cincinnati, in Indy, and in Denver, especially given he had no running game at all in those last two games and carried the whole offense.

When Brees was around that age he was completing 6 whole yards an attempt, throwing a ton of picks, and getting benched in favor of a 41-year-old Doug Flutie.


Yea, Brees was bad as a rookie that's impossible to deny.

I know Ben has played great at times, and he's earned first ballot hall of famer, I'm not trying to bash him. But when the argument is who is the better postseason QB, you can't just ignore the bad games.
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MookieMonster


Joined: 17 Jun 2016
Posts: 3508
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Ben is a great QB, Brees is just a better one. Any Steelers fan denying Big Ben had a better supporting cast for most of his career is totally full of it.
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NoJobBob


Joined: 06 Aug 2014
Posts: 761
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MookieMonster wrote:
Big Ben is a great QB, Brees is just a better one. Any Steelers fan denying Big Ben had a better supporting cast for most of his career is totally full of it.
Yay for way oversimplifying it.
1) Not all those choosing Ben are Steelers fans.
2) Not all Steelers fans are choosing Ben.
3) There is way more that goes into the comparison than supporting cast.
4) It's extremely passable to say Brees has had a better supporting cast.
5) Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions. Playing in a dome in the NFC South is unequivocally the best conditions any QB could have. Playing at Heinz Field in the AFC North is just about the worst conditions any QB faces.
6) The defenses Ben faces in division and in the AFC are much better than those Brees faces in the NFC South.
7) Regardless of all of this, I'd take Ben straight up.
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Jlowe22


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 2529
Location: South Mississippi
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoJobBob wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
Big Ben is a great QB, Brees is just a better one. Any Steelers fan denying Big Ben had a better supporting cast for most of his career is totally full of it.
Yay for way oversimplifying it.
1) Not all those choosing Ben are Steelers fans.
2) Not all Steelers fans are choosing Ben.
3) There is way more that goes into the comparison than supporting cast.
4) It's extremely passable to say Brees has had a better supporting cast.
5) Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions. Playing in a dome in the NFC South is unequivocally the best conditions any QB could have. Playing at Heinz Field in the AFC North is just about the worst conditions any QB faces.
6) The defenses Ben faces in division and in the AFC are much better than those Brees faces in the NFC South.
7) Regardless of all of this, I'd take Ben straight up.


I stopped reading at "Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions"

I then LMAO because playing conditions affect both teams, supporting cast affects your own.

I then LMAO some more when I remembered Brees threw for 5 TDs 0 INT the last time he played at heinz field.
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RedRider


Joined: 24 Mar 2016
Posts: 484
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlowe22 wrote:
NoJobBob wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
Big Ben is a great QB, Brees is just a better one. Any Steelers fan denying Big Ben had a better supporting cast for most of his career is totally full of it.
Yay for way oversimplifying it.
1) Not all those choosing Ben are Steelers fans.
2) Not all Steelers fans are choosing Ben.
3) There is way more that goes into the comparison than supporting cast.
4) It's extremely passable to say Brees has had a better supporting cast.
5) Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions. Playing in a dome in the NFC South is unequivocally the best conditions any QB could have. Playing at Heinz Field in the AFC North is just about the worst conditions any QB faces.
6) The defenses Ben faces in division and in the AFC are much better than those Brees faces in the NFC South.
7) Regardless of all of this, I'd take Ben straight up.


I stopped reading at "Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions"

I then LMAO because playing conditions affect both teams, supporting cast affects your own.

I then LMAO some more when I remembered Brees threw for 5 TDs 0 INT the last time he played at heinz field.
The spite is oozing at the seams in this post. Why so hostile? Laughing

LMAO at you for thinking bad weather affects both sides of the ball equally. Rain and mud (as commonplace at Heinz as anywhere in the league) greatly cuts down on WRs' ability to cut, run advanced routes, and catch the football. Corners have a hard time cutting too, obviously, but they can keep the receivers in front of them. Have you watched football? How could you say it affects both sides and thus has no impact on a QB's stats? Laughing

And LMAO at giving a one game anecdote. If Brees has one good game, then he will obviously do it at a 100% rate countless times. As if that proves anything. Can you even recall the weather conditions of that game.. Or was that one of the few games in the season where the field was dry?
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NoJobBob


Joined: 06 Aug 2014
Posts: 761
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlowe22 wrote:
NoJobBob wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
Big Ben is a great QB, Brees is just a better one. Any Steelers fan denying Big Ben had a better supporting cast for most of his career is totally full of it.
Yay for way oversimplifying it.
1) Not all those choosing Ben are Steelers fans.
2) Not all Steelers fans are choosing Ben.
3) There is way more that goes into the comparison than supporting cast.
4) It's extremely passable to say Brees has had a better supporting cast.
5) Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions. Playing in a dome in the NFC South is unequivocally the best conditions any QB could have. Playing at Heinz Field in the AFC North is just about the worst conditions any QB faces.
6) The defenses Ben faces in division and in the AFC are much better than those Brees faces in the NFC South.
7) Regardless of all of this, I'd take Ben straight up.


I stopped reading at "Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions"

I then LMAO because playing conditions affect both teams, supporting cast affects your own.

I then LMAO some more when I remembered Brees threw for 5 TDs 0 INT the last time he played at heinz field.
If you don't understand how bad weather affects a quarterback's stats and his offense'a performance, I don't know what to tell you. Must be nice playing in a dome and in a southern division and thus almost never having to play a weather game to the point where you as a fan don't understand what such a game is like. I now see why Brees was adamant about not going to a bad weather team when he was a FA.
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MookieMonster


Joined: 17 Jun 2016
Posts: 3508
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RedRider wrote:
Jlowe22 wrote:
NoJobBob wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
Big Ben is a great QB, Brees is just a better one. Any Steelers fan denying Big Ben had a better supporting cast for most of his career is totally full of it.
Yay for way oversimplifying it.
1) Not all those choosing Ben are Steelers fans.
2) Not all Steelers fans are choosing Ben.
3) There is way more that goes into the comparison than supporting cast.
4) It's extremely passable to say Brees has had a better supporting cast.
5) Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions. Playing in a dome in the NFC South is unequivocally the best conditions any QB could have. Playing at Heinz Field in the AFC North is just about the worst conditions any QB faces.
6) The defenses Ben faces in division and in the AFC are much better than those Brees faces in the NFC South.
7) Regardless of all of this, I'd take Ben straight up.


I stopped reading at "Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions"

I then LMAO because playing conditions affect both teams, supporting cast affects your own.

I then LMAO some more when I remembered Brees threw for 5 TDs 0 INT the last time he played at heinz field.
The spite is oozing at the seams in this post. Why so hostile? Laughing

LMAO at you for thinking bad weather affects both sides of the ball equally. Rain and mud (as commonplace at Heinz as anywhere in the league) greatly cuts down on WRs' ability to cut, run advanced routes, and catch the football. Corners have a hard time cutting too, obviously, but they can keep the receivers in front of them. Have you watched football? How could you say it affects both sides and thus has no impact on a QB's stats? Laughing

And LMAO at giving a one game anecdote. If Brees has one good game, then he will obviously do it at a 100% rate countless times. As if that proves anything. Can you even recall the weather conditions of that game.. Or was that one of the few games in the season where the field was dry?

Muddy, slippery conditions are actually a huge benefit to a WR. The WR knows when he is cutting, the CB is the one who has to react in slippery conditions.
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MookieMonster


Joined: 17 Jun 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoJobBob wrote:
Jlowe22 wrote:
NoJobBob wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
Big Ben is a great QB, Brees is just a better one. Any Steelers fan denying Big Ben had a better supporting cast for most of his career is totally full of it.
Yay for way oversimplifying it.
1) Not all those choosing Ben are Steelers fans.
2) Not all Steelers fans are choosing Ben.
3) There is way more that goes into the comparison than supporting cast.
4) It's extremely passable to say Brees has had a better supporting cast.
5) Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions. Playing in a dome in the NFC South is unequivocally the best conditions any QB could have. Playing at Heinz Field in the AFC North is just about the worst conditions any QB faces.
6) The defenses Ben faces in division and in the AFC are much better than those Brees faces in the NFC South.
7) Regardless of all of this, I'd take Ben straight up.


I stopped reading at "Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions"

I then LMAO because playing conditions affect both teams, supporting cast affects your own.

I then LMAO some more when I remembered Brees threw for 5 TDs 0 INT the last time he played at heinz field.
If you don't understand how bad weather affects a quarterback's stats and his offense'a performance, I don't know what to tell you. Must be nice playing in a dome and in a southern division and thus almost never having to play a weather game to the point where you as a fan don't understand what such a game is like. I now see why Brees was adamant about not going to a bad weather team when he was a FA.

Yeah, it never rains down south tbh
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Malik


Joined: 18 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NoJobBob wrote:
Jlowe22 wrote:
NoJobBob wrote:
MookieMonster wrote:
Big Ben is a great QB, Brees is just a better one. Any Steelers fan denying Big Ben had a better supporting cast for most of his career is totally full of it.
Yay for way oversimplifying it.
1) Not all those choosing Ben are Steelers fans.
2) Not all Steelers fans are choosing Ben.
3) There is way more that goes into the comparison than supporting cast.
4) It's extremely passable to say Brees has had a better supporting cast.
5) Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions. Playing in a dome in the NFC South is unequivocally the best conditions any QB could have. Playing at Heinz Field in the AFC North is just about the worst conditions any QB faces.
6) The defenses Ben faces in division and in the AFC are much better than those Brees faces in the NFC South.
7) Regardless of all of this, I'd take Ben straight up.


I stopped reading at "Just as important as supporting cast is playing conditions"

I then LMAO because playing conditions affect both teams, supporting cast affects your own.

I then LMAO some more when I remembered Brees threw for 5 TDs 0 INT the last time he played at heinz field.
If you don't understand how bad weather affects a quarterback's stats and his offense'a performance, I don't know what to tell you. Must be nice playing in a dome and in a southern division and thus almost never having to play a weather game to the point where you as a fan don't understand what such a game is like. I now see why Brees was adamant about not going to a bad weather team when he was a FA.


Players seldomly play in bad weather games though. There are a lot of COLD games. But very few games are really played in rain, sleet, hail, snow.
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