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Are We Really Not Going to Pick Up Tyrod's Option?
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cdavls17


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could be they are looking for a trade partner or a price reduction however are you going to risk losing a capable starter at qb to save a mil or at most 2 a year? He is already getting paid at the bottom of the QB position why [inappropriate/removed] him off if you want him there.

Kirk Cousins is tagged so he will likely stay unless they receive 3 first rd picks which they had to give up for RG3. So he is likely staying

Pats already said they are not going to trade Garapollo.

So you have Tony Romo and Jay Cutler who have yet to be cut as possible QB prospects

Mike Glennon
Brian Hoyer
Ryan Mallett
Geno Smith
EJ Manuel
Colin Kapernick

You tell me how these guys can improve the bills over tyrod taylor. Even if they look to move him he isnt going to get a 1st he will likely get a 2nd at best if a team is needy but not likely so is losing tyrod worth a 3rd or later?
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally get what you're saying cdavls17 but the Bills are probably looking at like this:

1) Is there a QB who can get us over the hump and into the playoffs? If yes then go go get him. If no, move on to step 2.

2) Is there a cheaper QB who can produce just as much as Tyrod and help save cap space (i.e. no 30 mil guaranteed.)? If yes, go get him. If no, move on to step 3.

3) Keep Tyrod hopefully at a reduced rate, worse case keep him for one more year and draft a guy in 18.

Honesty, if we went with Foles and won 6 games as opposed to winning 9 with Tyrod and still missing the playoffs, I'd be okay with.
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cdavls17


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get your point on options but people are making this 30 mil guaranteed to be a big thing for a qb that is very affordable and 15 mil is cap friendly. I just hate the cycle of constant change qb coaching and other players. Everytime bills make 1 step forward the next year its 2 steps back. Defense was the best it had been in a decade in 2014 and what do they do go with a different defensive coach with a completely different scheme. Same goes with this year which is fine as they are making the correction back but why mess up a top 10 offense to save a couple million? Was tyrod elite? No but he did the job and was able to get the offense moving into a top 10 scoring offense where no qb has yet to do that since drew bledsoe was a qb for the bills. It looks real bad to FA that the bills have no loyalty and stability just to save a few bucks. Nick Foles Brian hoyer and mike glennon are horrid they couldnt beat out other crappy qbs so why do we want them just to save a few mil for the year to have at best 6 wins? Its different if they were backups to tom brady drew brees or any other franchise qb but nick foles not being able to beat out guys like Case Keenum and hoyer not able to beat out mallet is just pathetic and to say its okay we will suck for a better option in 2018 in draft is silly to me.
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Yibbyl


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdavls17 wrote:
I get your point on options but people are making this 30 mil guaranteed to be a big thing for a qb that is very affordable and 15 mil is cap friendly. I just hate the cycle of constant change qb coaching and other players. Everytime bills make 1 step forward the next year its 2 steps back. Defense was the best it had been in a decade in 2014 and what do they do go with a different defensive coach with a completely different scheme. Same goes with this year which is fine as they are making the correction back but why mess up a top 10 offense to save a couple million? Was tyrod elite? No but he did the job and was able to get the offense moving into a top 10 scoring offense where no qb has yet to do that since drew bledsoe was a qb for the bills. It looks real bad to FA that the bills have no loyalty and stability just to save a few bucks. Nick Foles Brian hoyer and mike glennon are horrid they couldnt beat out other crappy qbs so why do we want them just to save a few mil for the year to have at best 6 wins? Its different if they were backups to tom brady drew brees or any other franchise qb but nick foles not being able to beat out guys like Case Keenum and hoyer not able to beat out mallet is just pathetic and to say its okay we will suck for a better option in 2018 in draft is silly to me.


I actually do want to seriously address the bolded. What if the FO really does believe that sending Tyrod away and playing a cheaper, short-term option results in 2-3 less wins this coming year? If the main goal is to find a high quality, long term solution at QB and they feel there are going to be realistic options for 5-6 win teams, would you support the strategy? I hate losing and have always rolled my eyes at people posting suggestions to "suck for Luck", etc. Still, what if McDermott has looked at the D personnel and thought that we were missing far too many key players to make his system really work well this year? What if he thought that he needed 2 years to turn over the roster to get what he needs in various positions, including QB? If you were confident in McDermott's future coaching, would you accept purposely giving away a couple of W's and saving some money to let them work a long term plan to be successful in the future?

In the past, I would have said heck no! I'm not so sure anymore. We've fallen short for nearly 2 decades now. Maybe letting Tyrod walk or be traded for the opportunity to get a franchise QB in 2018 and surround him with players that fit McDermott's system is the best thing we could do for the long term enjoyment of the fans. Hoping we nail it in the 6th like the Pats did just isn't realistic. Gotta try something different!
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yibbyl that is exactly the dilemma I am having. I hate losing and every Sunday morning no matter how unlikely it is, I hope and pray the Bills will win and get upset when they lose.

Now, we pretty much know where Tyrod can take us. Unless McDermott can magically turn the defense into a top 5 unit we very likely are not going to the playoffs this season. So IMO going 8-8 or 9-7 does us no good and probably hurt us in the long run.

IF we let Taylor go and save quite a bit which can be spent on long term players (maybe Jefferson? maybe Wagner?) and go 5-11 or 6-10 then we're in much better position next year for a guy like Darnold or Rosen or whomever and more likely for long term success rather than a few more years of Tyrod maybe or maybe not getting us to the playoffs.

Now for the record I am not saying I am in favour of either of these scenarios one way or another, just trying to show the flip side and why Taylor staying may not be the best thing for the Bills.
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cdavls17


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem i see in this theory of sucking and letting tyrod go is the bills will still manage to get 5-6 wins and still not be in top position to get the #1 pick there are teams that always manage to be at the bottom bills always manage to get a mid pick. The last 20 years the highest draft pick they had without trading up was 2011 where they were pick 3 and went 6-10. They have managed to be pick 8-16 with a rare occasion of being out of that.

Even if you do suck without tyrod and get a chance at qb who is to say he is ready to go week 1 of 2018 season? why rush to dump him and start a rebuild because thats what your asking for when your hoping to suck this year and 2018 will be a struggle.

I am still not understanding why people want to dump tyrod, I get it if he is set to make 20+ million but he is making 21st qb money out of 32 starters which majority of 22-32 are still on rookie contracts. I still can see the bills keeping tyrod whether they are playoff bound or still 8-8 and you see a qb worth risking trade up and give up a 1st in 2018 and 2019 i much rather do that then cave in hopes of landing the top pick in 2018 and be forced to draft a qb who may or may not be worth it like this year with the browns.
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Yibbyl


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cdavls17 wrote:
The problem i see in this theory of sucking and letting tyrod go is the bills will still manage to get 5-6 wins and still not be in top position to get the #1 pick there are teams that always manage to be at the bottom bills always manage to get a mid pick. The last 20 years the highest draft pick they had without trading up was 2011 where they were pick 3 and went 6-10. They have managed to be pick 8-16 with a rare occasion of being out of that.

Even if you do suck without tyrod and get a chance at qb who is to say he is ready to go week 1 of 2018 season? why rush to dump him and start a rebuild because thats what your asking for when your hoping to suck this year and 2018 will be a struggle.

I am still not understanding why people want to dump tyrod, I get it if he is set to make 20+ million but he is making 21st qb money out of 32 starters which majority of 22-32 are still on rookie contracts. I still can see the bills keeping tyrod whether they are playoff bound or still 8-8 and you see a qb worth risking trade up and give up a 1st in 2018 and 2019 i much rather do that then cave in hopes of landing the top pick in 2018 and be forced to draft a qb who may or may not be worth it like this year with the browns.


All good points for the most part. I really hate moving up in drafts, so that's a problem for me. But whatever...it's a solution to a problem, isn't it? Also, I forgot to mention the other problem when you do go "all in" to try to snatch some player more than a year out...who's to say he doesn't get injured either in college or later? Throwing away a season (and I DO absolutely hate that idea) still comes with a lot of risk, maybe more when you factor in another year playing in college where he can get hurt. Either we have been insanely unlucky over the last too freakin' many years or we've had a faulted strategy(ies) in shoring up the QB position. Either way, given the nature of the game, we can't expect to be playoff bound with the likes of Fitz, EJ, and frankly maybe not even Tyrod, though I do think he's the most likely guy to accomplish it in recent times.

Anyway so your solution is to give away draft picks to move up. Of course that can land you the guy if you find a willing trading partner. I mess around quite a bit with a program called Football Mogul, that allows you to be a more hands-on GM than say in franchise mode on Madden. I almost always have to rely on spending big in FA to land a franchise QB and even then, because he already had some years in the league, I rarely get to keep a QB who'll play more than 6 years for me. It works, meaning I'm competitive and make the playoffs often enough in simulated seasons to keep me and the fans happy, (though probably more because of the D's I assemble rather than my QB's play). Still, finishing at .500 and chasing what are essentially back-up QB's in the draft gets me the same results we've had in real life with our Bills. Like I said, something needs to change.
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cdavls17


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea thats why i dont like tanking so many variables that can make bills organization look bad. I say moving up with picks if there is a guy that you want avoids less risk by tanking a season however can avoid future risk by trading away picks for the future. So it seems like a potential for bust unless the stars align and they land the mext cam newton andrew luck type player where they tank a season and land a talented top qb.

On another note this article is interesting as it talks about mcdermott not comitting to tyrod to gauge the trade interest. They dont want to say they are cutting him and dont want to say they are keeping him so they dont sell their selves short. So my belief is that they will trade him if the price is right if they cant then they keep him. I dont see cutting him as a solution in this situation anymore. http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/3/2/14780708/tyrod-taylor-trade-buffalo-bills-doug-whaley-combine-scenario-and-why-bills-may-be-exploring-it
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you guys think Taylor could haul in a trade?

Would the 33rd pick and a conditional 2nd next year from Cleveland be enough?
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LeeEvans


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
What do you guys think Taylor could haul in a trade?

Would the 33rd pick and a conditional 2nd next year from Cleveland be enough?
Absolutely. I think Tyrod is a decent QB but I don't think he is the long term answer. Those picks would give us a lot of flexibility.
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Thelonebillsfan


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't settle for anything less than a mid-late first.

Guys who have a lot less proven skill and experience go for that.
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#Combinerumourmill

Bills said to be interested in Trevor Seimen if they move on from Tyrod.

Makes sense in regards to the Dennison connection. Would fit that stopgap label as well.
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LeeEvans


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
#Combinerumourmill

Bills said to be interested in Trevor Seimen if they move on from Tyrod.

Makes sense in regards to the Dennison connection. Would fit that stopgap label as well.
I'd be super okay with that, in fact I'd be quite happy. Seimen looked pretty good to me, most of their problems was with a horrible offensive line that couldn't run or pass block. He was also throwing to Sanders and Thomas though which certainly can't hurt.
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeEvans wrote:
Trentwannabe wrote:
#Combinerumourmill

Bills said to be interested in Trevor Seimen if they move on from Tyrod.

Makes sense in regards to the Dennison connection. Would fit that stopgap label as well.
I'd be super okay with that, in fact I'd be quite happy. Seimen looked pretty good to me, most of their problems was with a horrible offensive line that couldn't run or pass block. He was also throwing to Sanders and Thomas though which certainly can't hurt.


If we landed him and traded Taylor then I'd absolutely go either Williams, Howard or Davis at 10. The O would be loaded.
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LeeEvans


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
LeeEvans wrote:
Trentwannabe wrote:
#Combinerumourmill

Bills said to be interested in Trevor Seimen if they move on from Tyrod.

Makes sense in regards to the Dennison connection. Would fit that stopgap label as well.
I'd be super okay with that, in fact I'd be quite happy. Seimen looked pretty good to me, most of their problems was with a horrible offensive line that couldn't run or pass block. He was also throwing to Sanders and Thomas though which certainly can't hurt.


If we landed him and traded Taylor then I'd absolutely go either Williams, Howard or Davis at 10. The O would be loaded.
I am all in on this idea the more I think about it.
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