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ekill08x


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 10719
Location: Bayport, New York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
GangGreen420 wrote:
Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
I don't think we should touch a QB in the draft this year. Reason being is we have so many other needs that it'd be a wasted pick, bc we seem to want to bench every QB we draft for 2 years when we can develop a player at a different position ASAP and actually start them. No sense of drafting a QB until we see what Hack can do. That's why I want him to start at least 6-8 games this year regardless who we bring in. I don't want us to bring in a guy like Kaep or Cutler bc they block the potential of starting Hack at all this year. I'm not against bringing in a cheap vet like Keenum or Foles, but for me they really are a waste of money and just blocking Hack. I think we need to quit babying Hack and play him. If nothing else it clears up that we need a QB big time in the draft next year and make it next year we finally move up and get one. The better alternative is Hack is the answer and we already have our franchise guy. The best thing we can do right now is surround Hack with players. Get an upgrade at LT and C and make the defense better so he doesn't have to score 30 points a game to win. We seem to be one of the only franchises that big time babies our QBs and look where its gotten us. Geno should've started the last 2 years and Hack should this next year. Instead we got Fitz 2 years in a row and who knows in 2017. Opportunity is all these guys need most the time. Confidence is 2nd and that comes with opportunity and play.


If Hack played this year, he'd be done. Game action has two effects on confidence. Either they come in and succeed and their confidence grows, or you have a Osweiler situation where they're playing when they're not ready and struggle mightily, hear about it every second of every day, and become a shell of themselves.


Im pretty convinced Hackenberg was just a waste of a draft pick for us. We are drafting a QB either this year or next which means he's not in the long term plans. He needed to go somewhere where he could sit behind a guy for a couple years, that wasn't the case here.


He may very well have been. I hated the pick but i do see the upside. We cant take a QB at 6 this year. It would be a nightmare.

I disagree. I think the main problem is people want Hack and go 11-5. Everyone should know that won't happen. Go look at virtually every qbs 1st year starting, they weren't good. Let's just look to last year... Wentz looked good early and struggled big time as the year went on. Never once did philly say bench him. Bc it's part of the process. God was in a different situation and only started like 1/3 of the year and struggled yet LA will stay with the process, bc you have to be patient. We've became a franchise that has no patience and that freaks out when we aren't good. Yes sometimes a QB just isn't good, but I don't think anyone can say Hack doesn't have all the tools to succeed in the NFL. Play him this year and let him get the bumps and bruises. This will set up for the future. Maybe this season and even next season are rough, but Hack will still only be 24 and we could have our guy for 10-15 years.


HUH? so you AGREE. I have been saying to let the kids play. We all hated picking Hack in the 2nd but might as well use this year to see what we have. Cant take a QB this year that would be absolutely idiotic. Idc what our record is this year. Its kind of irrelevant. If we by some miracle (and thats exactly what it would be) a good team, than thats great we certainly have found a young QB. If we suck, most likely, and the QB is a complete dumpster fire, than you draft one of the 2 studs in 2018 and you literally build around him from the get go with the money youve been hoarding. Its going to be a process and we probably wont touch 9 wins again till 2019 the earliest but this had to happen unfortunately. A high pick, a ton of cap space and a core of young players is a good sell for a better HC in 2018 as opposed to this year. Bowles will be gone, no question. Mac will not.
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Bobby816


Joined: 21 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ekill08x wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
GangGreen420 wrote:
Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
I don't think we should touch a QB in the draft this year. Reason being is we have so many other needs that it'd be a wasted pick, bc we seem to want to bench every QB we draft for 2 years when we can develop a player at a different position ASAP and actually start them. No sense of drafting a QB until we see what Hack can do. That's why I want him to start at least 6-8 games this year regardless who we bring in. I don't want us to bring in a guy like Kaep or Cutler bc they block the potential of starting Hack at all this year. I'm not against bringing in a cheap vet like Keenum or Foles, but for me they really are a waste of money and just blocking Hack. I think we need to quit babying Hack and play him. If nothing else it clears up that we need a QB big time in the draft next year and make it next year we finally move up and get one. The better alternative is Hack is the answer and we already have our franchise guy. The best thing we can do right now is surround Hack with players. Get an upgrade at LT and C and make the defense better so he doesn't have to score 30 points a game to win. We seem to be one of the only franchises that big time babies our QBs and look where its gotten us. Geno should've started the last 2 years and Hack should this next year. Instead we got Fitz 2 years in a row and who knows in 2017. Opportunity is all these guys need most the time. Confidence is 2nd and that comes with opportunity and play.


If Hack played this year, he'd be done. Game action has two effects on confidence. Either they come in and succeed and their confidence grows, or you have a Osweiler situation where they're playing when they're not ready and struggle mightily, hear about it every second of every day, and become a shell of themselves.


Im pretty convinced Hackenberg was just a waste of a draft pick for us. We are drafting a QB either this year or next which means he's not in the long term plans. He needed to go somewhere where he could sit behind a guy for a couple years, that wasn't the case here.


He may very well have been. I hated the pick but i do see the upside. We cant take a QB at 6 this year. It would be a nightmare.

I disagree. I think the main problem is people want Hack and go 11-5. Everyone should know that won't happen. Go look at virtually every qbs 1st year starting, they weren't good. Let's just look to last year... Wentz looked good early and struggled big time as the year went on. Never once did philly say bench him. Bc it's part of the process. God was in a different situation and only started like 1/3 of the year and struggled yet LA will stay with the process, bc you have to be patient. We've became a franchise that has no patience and that freaks out when we aren't good. Yes sometimes a QB just isn't good, but I don't think anyone can say Hack doesn't have all the tools to succeed in the NFL. Play him this year and let him get the bumps and bruises. This will set up for the future. Maybe this season and even next season are rough, but Hack will still only be 24 and we could have our guy for 10-15 years.


HUH? so you AGREE. I have been saying to let the kids play. We all hated picking Hack in the 2nd but might as well use this year to see what we have. Cant take a QB this year that would be absolutely idiotic. Idc what our record is this year. Its kind of irrelevant. If we by some miracle (and thats exactly what it would be) a good team, than thats great we certainly have found a young QB. If we suck, most likely, and the QB is a complete dumpster fire, than you draft one of the 2 studs in 2018 and you literally build around him from the get go with the money youve been hoarding. Its going to be a process and we probably wont touch 9 wins again till 2019 the earliest but this had to happen unfortunately. A high pick, a ton of cap space and a core of young players is a good sell for a better HC in 2018 as opposed to this year. Bowles will be gone, no question. Mac will not.

I'd say 75% of guys on this forum either just think Hack is garbage or thy don't think he should start at all this season. That's why I'm saying this. You are not one of them.
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Kyu


Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 390
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
GangGreen420 wrote:
Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
I don't think we should touch a QB in the draft this year. Reason being is we have so many other needs that it'd be a wasted pick, bc we seem to want to bench every QB we draft for 2 years when we can develop a player at a different position ASAP and actually start them. No sense of drafting a QB until we see what Hack can do. That's why I want him to start at least 6-8 games this year regardless who we bring in. I don't want us to bring in a guy like Kaep or Cutler bc they block the potential of starting Hack at all this year. I'm not against bringing in a cheap vet like Keenum or Foles, but for me they really are a waste of money and just blocking Hack. I think we need to quit babying Hack and play him. If nothing else it clears up that we need a QB big time in the draft next year and make it next year we finally move up and get one. The better alternative is Hack is the answer and we already have our franchise guy. The best thing we can do right now is surround Hack with players. Get an upgrade at LT and C and make the defense better so he doesn't have to score 30 points a game to win. We seem to be one of the only franchises that big time babies our QBs and look where its gotten us. Geno should've started the last 2 years and Hack should this next year. Instead we got Fitz 2 years in a row and who knows in 2017. Opportunity is all these guys need most the time. Confidence is 2nd and that comes with opportunity and play.


If Hack played this year, he'd be done. Game action has two effects on confidence. Either they come in and succeed and their confidence grows, or you have a Osweiler situation where they're playing when they're not ready and struggle mightily, hear about it every second of every day, and become a shell of themselves.


Im pretty convinced Hackenberg was just a waste of a draft pick for us. We are drafting a QB either this year or next which means he's not in the long term plans. He needed to go somewhere where he could sit behind a guy for a couple years, that wasn't the case here.


He may very well have been. I hated the pick but i do see the upside. We cant take a QB at 6 this year. It would be a nightmare.

I disagree. I think the main problem is people want Hack and go 11-5. Everyone should know that won't happen. Go look at virtually every qbs 1st year starting, they weren't good. Let's just look to last year... Wentz looked good early and struggled big time as the year went on. Never once did philly say bench him. Bc it's part of the process. God was in a different situation and only started like 1/3 of the year and struggled yet LA will stay with the process, bc you have to be patient. We've became a franchise that has no patience and that freaks out when we aren't good. Yes sometimes a QB just isn't good, but I don't think anyone can say Hack doesn't have all the tools to succeed in the NFL. Play him this year and let him get the bumps and bruises. This will set up for the future. Maybe this season and even next season are rough, but Hack will still only be 24 and we could have our guy for 10-15 years.


No offense, but it's kind of foolish to think the only way to develop a QB is to throw them to the wolves. I agree, patience is very important, but more importantly, they have to be ready to play. Hack has the physical tools to play QB, but he doesn't know how to use them. His mechanics were awful and his feet were worse than that. I don't know how far he's come, but no, he could not have survived a trial by fire this year.

I am in no way saying Hack can be Rodgers, but they both had similar issues coming into the league. Look at how Aaron throws the ball now and compare it to when he was at Cal. Everything is different. It takes time to fix mechanics. Yes, Rodgers had a HoF in front of him and we had Fitz, but the time that Rodgers had to sit, learn, work on his craft must have helped him immensely. Again, I am in no way, shape, or form saying Hack is Rodgers. I'm just saying that time on the bench isn't bad if they're developing behind the scenes.

Eventually, yes, there will come a time when Hack will have to show us the fruit of his labor, but you can't expect him to do that without the necessary coaching and fundamentals.
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ekill08x


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 10719
Location: Bayport, New York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
GangGreen420 wrote:
Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
I don't think we should touch a QB in the draft this year. Reason being is we have so many other needs that it'd be a wasted pick, bc we seem to want to bench every QB we draft for 2 years when we can develop a player at a different position ASAP and actually start them. No sense of drafting a QB until we see what Hack can do. That's why I want him to start at least 6-8 games this year regardless who we bring in. I don't want us to bring in a guy like Kaep or Cutler bc they block the potential of starting Hack at all this year. I'm not against bringing in a cheap vet like Keenum or Foles, but for me they really are a waste of money and just blocking Hack. I think we need to quit babying Hack and play him. If nothing else it clears up that we need a QB big time in the draft next year and make it next year we finally move up and get one. The better alternative is Hack is the answer and we already have our franchise guy. The best thing we can do right now is surround Hack with players. Get an upgrade at LT and C and make the defense better so he doesn't have to score 30 points a game to win. We seem to be one of the only franchises that big time babies our QBs and look where its gotten us. Geno should've started the last 2 years and Hack should this next year. Instead we got Fitz 2 years in a row and who knows in 2017. Opportunity is all these guys need most the time. Confidence is 2nd and that comes with opportunity and play.


If Hack played this year, he'd be done. Game action has two effects on confidence. Either they come in and succeed and their confidence grows, or you have a Osweiler situation where they're playing when they're not ready and struggle mightily, hear about it every second of every day, and become a shell of themselves.


Im pretty convinced Hackenberg was just a waste of a draft pick for us. We are drafting a QB either this year or next which means he's not in the long term plans. He needed to go somewhere where he could sit behind a guy for a couple years, that wasn't the case here.


He may very well have been. I hated the pick but i do see the upside. We cant take a QB at 6 this year. It would be a nightmare.

I disagree. I think the main problem is people want Hack and go 11-5. Everyone should know that won't happen. Go look at virtually every qbs 1st year starting, they weren't good. Let's just look to last year... Wentz looked good early and struggled big time as the year went on. Never once did philly say bench him. Bc it's part of the process. God was in a different situation and only started like 1/3 of the year and struggled yet LA will stay with the process, bc you have to be patient. We've became a franchise that has no patience and that freaks out when we aren't good. Yes sometimes a QB just isn't good, but I don't think anyone can say Hack doesn't have all the tools to succeed in the NFL. Play him this year and let him get the bumps and bruises. This will set up for the future. Maybe this season and even next season are rough, but Hack will still only be 24 and we could have our guy for 10-15 years.


HUH? so you AGREE. I have been saying to let the kids play. We all hated picking Hack in the 2nd but might as well use this year to see what we have. Cant take a QB this year that would be absolutely idiotic. Idc what our record is this year. Its kind of irrelevant. If we by some miracle (and thats exactly what it would be) a good team, than thats great we certainly have found a young QB. If we suck, most likely, and the QB is a complete dumpster fire, than you draft one of the 2 studs in 2018 and you literally build around him from the get go with the money youve been hoarding. Its going to be a process and we probably wont touch 9 wins again till 2019 the earliest but this had to happen unfortunately. A high pick, a ton of cap space and a core of young players is a good sell for a better HC in 2018 as opposed to this year. Bowles will be gone, no question. Mac will not.

I'd say 75% of guys on this forum either just think Hack is garbage or thy don't think he should start at all this season. That's why I'm saying this. You are not one of them.


My plan with hack ideally would have been to let him sit for an extended period, maybe 3 years honestly. The was assuming we would go sign a guy like Tyrod and a few key free agents and remain in the hunt. I also dont disagree with the plan of action in that we are going only pay for youth and potential and see what we have or fail trying. If that is the case I would like to see Petty vs Hackenberg vs hey maybe even Ryan Nassib (just an example, he honestly kind of sucks) and may the best young guy win. Its a win win for us. We will round out this roster over the next few weeks and months im sure and it will be a more talented roster than it was in 2016. It will also be way less experienced and its going to lead to a ton of close loses im sure. Expect a power running game and aggressive run defense and blitzing defense to keep scores low and close. We are legitimately going back to the basics. It sucks but its necessary.
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ekill08x


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 10719
Location: Bayport, New York
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
GangGreen420 wrote:
Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
I don't think we should touch a QB in the draft this year. Reason being is we have so many other needs that it'd be a wasted pick, bc we seem to want to bench every QB we draft for 2 years when we can develop a player at a different position ASAP and actually start them. No sense of drafting a QB until we see what Hack can do. That's why I want him to start at least 6-8 games this year regardless who we bring in. I don't want us to bring in a guy like Kaep or Cutler bc they block the potential of starting Hack at all this year. I'm not against bringing in a cheap vet like Keenum or Foles, but for me they really are a waste of money and just blocking Hack. I think we need to quit babying Hack and play him. If nothing else it clears up that we need a QB big time in the draft next year and make it next year we finally move up and get one. The better alternative is Hack is the answer and we already have our franchise guy. The best thing we can do right now is surround Hack with players. Get an upgrade at LT and C and make the defense better so he doesn't have to score 30 points a game to win. We seem to be one of the only franchises that big time babies our QBs and look where its gotten us. Geno should've started the last 2 years and Hack should this next year. Instead we got Fitz 2 years in a row and who knows in 2017. Opportunity is all these guys need most the time. Confidence is 2nd and that comes with opportunity and play.


If Hack played this year, he'd be done. Game action has two effects on confidence. Either they come in and succeed and their confidence grows, or you have a Osweiler situation where they're playing when they're not ready and struggle mightily, hear about it every second of every day, and become a shell of themselves.


Im pretty convinced Hackenberg was just a waste of a draft pick for us. We are drafting a QB either this year or next which means he's not in the long term plans. He needed to go somewhere where he could sit behind a guy for a couple years, that wasn't the case here.


He may very well have been. I hated the pick but i do see the upside. We cant take a QB at 6 this year. It would be a nightmare.

I disagree. I think the main problem is people want Hack and go 11-5. Everyone should know that won't happen. Go look at virtually every qbs 1st year starting, they weren't good. Let's just look to last year... Wentz looked good early and struggled big time as the year went on. Never once did philly say bench him. Bc it's part of the process. God was in a different situation and only started like 1/3 of the year and struggled yet LA will stay with the process, bc you have to be patient. We've became a franchise that has no patience and that freaks out when we aren't good. Yes sometimes a QB just isn't good, but I don't think anyone can say Hack doesn't have all the tools to succeed in the NFL. Play him this year and let him get the bumps and bruises. This will set up for the future. Maybe this season and even next season are rough, but Hack will still only be 24 and we could have our guy for 10-15 years.


No offense, but it's kind of foolish to think the only way to develop a QB is to throw them to the wolves. I agree, patience is very important, but more importantly, they have to be ready to play. Hack has the physical tools to play QB, but he doesn't know how to use them. His mechanics were awful and his feet were worse than that. I don't know how far he's come, but no, he could not have survived a trial by fire this year.

I am in no way saying Hack can be Rodgers, but they both had similar issues coming into the league. Look at how Aaron throws the ball now and compare it to when he was at Cal. Everything is different. It takes time to fix mechanics. Yes, Rodgers had a HoF in front of him and we had Fitz, but the time that Rodgers had to sit, learn, work on his craft must have helped him immensely. Again, I am in no way, shape, or form saying Hack is Rodgers. I'm just saying that time on the bench isn't bad if they're developing behind the scenes.

Eventually, yes, there will come a time when Hack will have to show us the fruit of his labor, but you can't expect him to do that without the necessary coaching and fundamentals.


Its not and your right, but in this case, its feast or famine because we know what 2018 entails. Its not ideal for either QB but Petty has essentially had his time and should be well ahead, and if not Hack has to show something. Otherwise whatever, #1 overall here we come and hopefully a reputable HC would be willing to come here and build the foundation again.
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GangGreen420


Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's this year or never for Hackenberg as far as being the QB of the Jets goes IMO.

He gets in and plays great then awesome, problem solved.

He gets in and plays terrible, then cool we are probably getting a top pick to use on a QB.

He doesn't play this year, and we still suck, we still take the QB next year. He never plays here most likely.

He doesn't play this year and by some miracle we are good with someone like Cutler, then maybe he gets a shot the year after (by far most unlikely scenario though)

He should be getting a ton of reps in camp, preseason etc as the backup and be ready when his name is called. This confidence stuff is a bunch of malarkey. We can't hide this kid forever. I know some of you love him and want to give him 3-4 years to sit on bench but that's not the position this team is in.

I keep saying it but I definitely think it's true, this was one of the worst landing spots in the league for Hack. It's cool if we want to sit him for 2 more years, but we will have already drafted our future starter by then.
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jetskid007


Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 10867
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
GangGreen420 wrote:
Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
I don't think we should touch a QB in the draft this year. Reason being is we have so many other needs that it'd be a wasted pick, bc we seem to want to bench every QB we draft for 2 years when we can develop a player at a different position ASAP and actually start them. No sense of drafting a QB until we see what Hack can do. That's why I want him to start at least 6-8 games this year regardless who we bring in. I don't want us to bring in a guy like Kaep or Cutler bc they block the potential of starting Hack at all this year. I'm not against bringing in a cheap vet like Keenum or Foles, but for me they really are a waste of money and just blocking Hack. I think we need to quit babying Hack and play him. If nothing else it clears up that we need a QB big time in the draft next year and make it next year we finally move up and get one. The better alternative is Hack is the answer and we already have our franchise guy. The best thing we can do right now is surround Hack with players. Get an upgrade at LT and C and make the defense better so he doesn't have to score 30 points a game to win. We seem to be one of the only franchises that big time babies our QBs and look where its gotten us. Geno should've started the last 2 years and Hack should this next year. Instead we got Fitz 2 years in a row and who knows in 2017. Opportunity is all these guys need most the time. Confidence is 2nd and that comes with opportunity and play.


If Hack played this year, he'd be done. Game action has two effects on confidence. Either they come in and succeed and their confidence grows, or you have a Osweiler situation where they're playing when they're not ready and struggle mightily, hear about it every second of every day, and become a shell of themselves.


Im pretty convinced Hackenberg was just a waste of a draft pick for us. We are drafting a QB either this year or next which means he's not in the long term plans. He needed to go somewhere where he could sit behind a guy for a couple years, that wasn't the case here.


He may very well have been. I hated the pick but i do see the upside. We cant take a QB at 6 this year. It would be a nightmare.

I disagree. I think the main problem is people want Hack and go 11-5. Everyone should know that won't happen. Go look at virtually every qbs 1st year starting, they weren't good. Let's just look to last year... Wentz looked good early and struggled big time as the year went on. Never once did philly say bench him. Bc it's part of the process. God was in a different situation and only started like 1/3 of the year and struggled yet LA will stay with the process, bc you have to be patient. We've became a franchise that has no patience and that freaks out when we aren't good. Yes sometimes a QB just isn't good, but I don't think anyone can say Hack doesn't have all the tools to succeed in the NFL. Play him this year and let him get the bumps and bruises. This will set up for the future. Maybe this season and even next season are rough, but Hack will still only be 24 and we could have our guy for 10-15 years.


No offense, but it's kind of foolish to think the only way to develop a QB is to throw them to the wolves. I agree, patience is very important, but more importantly, they have to be ready to play. Hack has the physical tools to play QB, but he doesn't know how to use them. His mechanics were awful and his feet were worse than that. I don't know how far he's come, but no, he could not have survived a trial by fire this year.

I am in no way saying Hack can be Rodgers, but they both had similar issues coming into the league. Look at how Aaron throws the ball now and compare it to when he was at Cal. Everything is different. It takes time to fix mechanics. Yes, Rodgers had a HoF in front of him and we had Fitz, but the time that Rodgers had to sit, learn, work on his craft must have helped him immensely. Again, I am in no way, shape, or form saying Hack is Rodgers. I'm just saying that time on the bench isn't bad if they're developing behind the scenes.

Eventually, yes, there will come a time when Hack will have to show us the fruit of his labor, but you can't expect him to do that without the necessary coaching and fundamentals.



Truth: you won't truly know how good a QB is until they get a season-plus of starting experience.
Fallacy: knowing that you have a potential long-term starter doesn't have to require early career starts.


The Jets will know by year 2-3 whether they have "something" or "nothing" in Hackenberg without him stepping on the field in a game. That's not to say "something" means he'll be a great QB, rather, it means he has shown enough development for the team to be optimistic of his potential to be a long-term starter. Potential is the key word.

Using the Aaron Rodgers example is appropriate because while the team internally felt very good about his potential when it was his turn to start, they still took Brian Brohm in the 2nd round to hedge their bets in case that potential amounted to nothing in live action. He went on to become one of the best QBs that ever lived.

The Broncos felt good enough about Osweiler to offer him upwards of $65 million last offseason. Whether or not they admit it, they surely didn't expect him to play the way he did this year or else they wouldn't have made the offer.


No one is saying that time will lead to Hackenberg becoming some great QB, but the organization can evaluate him without forcing him into the lineup. It's kind of like Garoppolo - we've been hearing Bill's love for him before any of his starts. How did he know? Because he has seen his progression in practice. Time will tell; no need to rush hack into the lineup - it'll only be a disservice to him and the team.


Last edited by jetskid007 on Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Rockice_8


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do people really think Cutler is going to avoid the tank.

The guys win loss record is awful so saying Cutler will come in here and carry the Jets to wins is not going to happen.

He is Fitz with a strong arm. If we continue to field young players and have a young surrounding cast that will be forced to endure the growing pains Cutler isn't going to change that.

I just worry about Cutler's attitude around a young team. That's my biggest issue with him. Not that he's going to carry the jets to 6 wins and a better draft pick.

With that said I really don't want him.

I prefer at this point in order
1. A Sheldon for McCarron swap (gives us McCarron/Hack comp for the next 2 years in hopes one breaks out as a franchise guy)
2. Sign one of Geno/RGIII/Foles (all pretty bad options but young and give Hack a chance to win the job)
3. Cutler (could live with him on a 1 year deal but if he starts bringing down moral with the losing I'd want to cut him loose and go with Petty for the rest of the year and Hack the last few games)
4. Start Petty
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rampantjet


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^ Hack JUST turned 22, which is insanely young for a QB. Carson Wentz is over 2 years older than him. He is over 3 years younger than Simian. He has plenty of time to sit and learn. Not sure why some people want to rush the process. I think he should be the back up this year so that he can get reps and be more involved with the team than he was last year, and then the coaches will have an even better grasp of how he is coming along. I think the coaches need to know by then end of this year what they expect to have in him, so that when we have a high pick in 2018 we know if we should be targeting a top QB or looking to ransom that high pick for tons of picks that will help us rebuild the team.
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Rockice_8


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GangGreen420 wrote:
It's this year or never for Hackenberg as far as being the QB of the Jets goes IMO.


That's not even slightly true. If this was the start of the 2018 season then maybe you can start pushing for now or never type sentiment but it's only 2017. I do get the feeling we will see him later this season for the last few games.

If we land a top 2 pick and stud QB is there you bet we're taking him Hack or not. Only way that doesn't happen is if Hack come in mid season and just goes wild. Since that is highly unlikely we will be taking a QB very early next year. If Hack does develop then even better for us. Now we could have a franchise QB and a very nice trading chip. Either way I think 2018 is where we look for a QB very high.
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xenajets


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rampantjet wrote:
^^ Hack JUST turned 22, which is insanely young for a QB. Carson Wentz is over 2 years older than him. He is over 3 years younger than Simian. He has plenty of time to sit and learn. Not sure why some people want to rush the process. I think he should be the back up this year so that he can get reps and be more involved with the team than he was last year, and then the coaches will have an even better grasp of how he is coming along. I think the coaches need to know by then end of this year what they expect to have in him, so that when we have a high pick in 2018 we know if we should be targeting a top QB or looking to ransom that high pick for tons of picks that will help us rebuild the team.


I agree he is young and everything but let's be honest...if he continues to be the back up this year and we end up with a top 5 pick next year and the option to select a franchise QB is in our laps are we going to risk not getting it because we've seen him in practice and getting reps etc??
In my opinion we need to know what we have in Hack...sure up the o-line and go get some more weapons on offense and see what the kid has. Best case scenario is he shows all the signs of our future QB and fully deserved of the faith Macc and the FO has in him to select him last year. Worst case is we get a top pick and potentially a franchise QB.
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Bobby816


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jetskid007 wrote:
Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
GangGreen420 wrote:
Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
I don't think we should touch a QB in the draft this year. Reason being is we have so many other needs that it'd be a wasted pick, bc we seem to want to bench every QB we draft for 2 years when we can develop a player at a different position ASAP and actually start them. No sense of drafting a QB until we see what Hack can do. That's why I want him to start at least 6-8 games this year regardless who we bring in. I don't want us to bring in a guy like Kaep or Cutler bc they block the potential of starting Hack at all this year. I'm not against bringing in a cheap vet like Keenum or Foles, but for me they really are a waste of money and just blocking Hack. I think we need to quit babying Hack and play him. If nothing else it clears up that we need a QB big time in the draft next year and make it next year we finally move up and get one. The better alternative is Hack is the answer and we already have our franchise guy. The best thing we can do right now is surround Hack with players. Get an upgrade at LT and C and make the defense better so he doesn't have to score 30 points a game to win. We seem to be one of the only franchises that big time babies our QBs and look where its gotten us. Geno should've started the last 2 years and Hack should this next year. Instead we got Fitz 2 years in a row and who knows in 2017. Opportunity is all these guys need most the time. Confidence is 2nd and that comes with opportunity and play.


If Hack played this year, he'd be done. Game action has two effects on confidence. Either they come in and succeed and their confidence grows, or you have a Osweiler situation where they're playing when they're not ready and struggle mightily, hear about it every second of every day, and become a shell of themselves.


Im pretty convinced Hackenberg was just a waste of a draft pick for us. We are drafting a QB either this year or next which means he's not in the long term plans. He needed to go somewhere where he could sit behind a guy for a couple years, that wasn't the case here.


He may very well have been. I hated the pick but i do see the upside. We cant take a QB at 6 this year. It would be a nightmare.

I disagree. I think the main problem is people want Hack and go 11-5. Everyone should know that won't happen. Go look at virtually every qbs 1st year starting, they weren't good. Let's just look to last year... Wentz looked good early and struggled big time as the year went on. Never once did philly say bench him. Bc it's part of the process. God was in a different situation and only started like 1/3 of the year and struggled yet LA will stay with the process, bc you have to be patient. We've became a franchise that has no patience and that freaks out when we aren't good. Yes sometimes a QB just isn't good, but I don't think anyone can say Hack doesn't have all the tools to succeed in the NFL. Play him this year and let him get the bumps and bruises. This will set up for the future. Maybe this season and even next season are rough, but Hack will still only be 24 and we could have our guy for 10-15 years.


No offense, but it's kind of foolish to think the only way to develop a QB is to throw them to the wolves. I agree, patience is very important, but more importantly, they have to be ready to play. Hack has the physical tools to play QB, but he doesn't know how to use them. His mechanics were awful and his feet were worse than that. I don't know how far he's come, but no, he could not have survived a trial by fire this year.

I am in no way saying Hack can be Rodgers, but they both had similar issues coming into the league. Look at how Aaron throws the ball now and compare it to when he was at Cal. Everything is different. It takes time to fix mechanics. Yes, Rodgers had a HoF in front of him and we had Fitz, but the time that Rodgers had to sit, learn, work on his craft must have helped him immensely. Again, I am in no way, shape, or form saying Hack is Rodgers. I'm just saying that time on the bench isn't bad if they're developing behind the scenes.

Eventually, yes, there will come a time when Hack will have to show us the fruit of his labor, but you can't expect him to do that without the necessary coaching and fundamentals.



Truth: you won't truly know how good a QB is until they get a season-plus of starting experience.
Fallacy: knowing that you have a potential long-term starter doesn't have to require early career starts.


The Jets will know by year 2-3 whether they have "something" or "nothing" in Hackenberg without him stepping on the field in a game. That's not to say "something" means he'll be a great QB, rather, it means he has shown enough development for the team to be optimistic of his potential to be a long-term starter. Potential is the key word.

Using the Aaron Rodgers example is appropriate because while the team internally felt very good about his potential when it was his turn to start, they still took Brian Brohm in the 2nd round to hedge their bets in case that potential amounted to nothing in live action. He went on to become one of the best QBs that ever lived.

The Broncos felt good enough about Osweiler to offer him upwards of $65 million last offseason. Whether or not they admit it, they surely didn't expect him to play the way he did this year or else they wouldn't have made the offer.


No one is saying that time will lead to Hackenberg becoming some great QB, but the organization can evaluate him without forcing him into the lineup. It's kind of like Garoppolo - we've been hearing Bill's love for him before any of his starts. How did he know? Because he has seen his progression in practice. Time will tell; no need to rush hack into the lineup - it'll only be a disservice to him and the team.

GB had Favre, NE had Brady so those examples don't equate for a situation like ours. The Denver one is the most similar to ours and even there situation wasn't similar to ours. We have NO ONE at QB. Therefor why not start Hack? At this point I think starting Petty is kinda pointless. I'd still rather start Petty than a guy like Cutler though. I don't think any QB over 26yrs old should start a game for us next season. We are clearly in a rebuild and wasting cap space and time isn't what we should be doing. Not playing a young QB is wasting time when you're rebuilding. Hack isn't coming in and starting right away, he sat a year. He also isn't a QB with no experience, he started every game for 3 years at a big university against good competition and succeeded under a good offense at 18 years old. Yes he had some flaws when we drafted him, but that's why he sat last year. And of course at 22 he isn't a finished product, but I'm all for putting him in there and letting him grow along with the team. We shouldn't baby him.
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Kyu


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xenajets wrote:
rampantjet wrote:
^^ Hack JUST turned 22, which is insanely young for a QB. Carson Wentz is over 2 years older than him. He is over 3 years younger than Simian. He has plenty of time to sit and learn. Not sure why some people want to rush the process. I think he should be the back up this year so that he can get reps and be more involved with the team than he was last year, and then the coaches will have an even better grasp of how he is coming along. I think the coaches need to know by then end of this year what they expect to have in him, so that when we have a high pick in 2018 we know if we should be targeting a top QB or looking to ransom that high pick for tons of picks that will help us rebuild the team.


I agree he is young and everything but let's be honest...if he continues to be the back up this year and we end up with a top 5 pick next year and the option to select a franchise QB is in our laps are we going to risk not getting it because we've seen him in practice and getting reps etc??
In my opinion we need to know what we have in Hack...sure up the o-line and go get some more weapons on offense and see what the kid has. Best case scenario is he shows all the signs of our future QB and fully deserved of the faith Macc and the FO has in him to select him last year. Worst case is we get a top pick and potentially a franchise QB.


I'm sure we'll see him at some point this year, but I'm hoping it's later on. We are going to be very young and there will be a lot of growing pains. Let the team grow a bit and take its lumps while Hack gets his reps in practice. Hopefully things will start coming together. That's when I hope to see him in games. Putting him in Week One would be a really tough spot.
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Rockice_8


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we at least see Hack do something positive in OTA and preseason before handing him the job.

I mean he was awful last preseason and now some of you want to throw him into the fire. No wonder we can't develop a QB here.

You may have to watch Cutler, Petty, Geno, RGIII, Foles, whoever lead this team to 4 wins but for the love of god can we just develop a guy for once so we can at least have a chance for a franchise QB.

Throw him out there when he's not ready and the pick is a giant waste. Give him another year to get his mechanics down and comfortable in a system and maybe just maybe he can stand a chance.

I would rather watch a season of Blaine Gabbert then ruin Hack just because we didn't have another option. The patience of the Jets fans as a whole are non existent.

Nothing but "lets develop a guy for once" was the talk after Geno was rushed and now when that plan is in place and a tough call needs to be made to make that happen half of you a whining about playing him.
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GangGreen420


Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
jetskid007 wrote:
Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
ekill08x wrote:
GangGreen420 wrote:
Kyu wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
I don't think we should touch a QB in the draft this year. Reason being is we have so many other needs that it'd be a wasted pick, bc we seem to want to bench every QB we draft for 2 years when we can develop a player at a different position ASAP and actually start them. No sense of drafting a QB until we see what Hack can do. That's why I want him to start at least 6-8 games this year regardless who we bring in. I don't want us to bring in a guy like Kaep or Cutler bc they block the potential of starting Hack at all this year. I'm not against bringing in a cheap vet like Keenum or Foles, but for me they really are a waste of money and just blocking Hack. I think we need to quit babying Hack and play him. If nothing else it clears up that we need a QB big time in the draft next year and make it next year we finally move up and get one. The better alternative is Hack is the answer and we already have our franchise guy. The best thing we can do right now is surround Hack with players. Get an upgrade at LT and C and make the defense better so he doesn't have to score 30 points a game to win. We seem to be one of the only franchises that big time babies our QBs and look where its gotten us. Geno should've started the last 2 years and Hack should this next year. Instead we got Fitz 2 years in a row and who knows in 2017. Opportunity is all these guys need most the time. Confidence is 2nd and that comes with opportunity and play.


If Hack played this year, he'd be done. Game action has two effects on confidence. Either they come in and succeed and their confidence grows, or you have a Osweiler situation where they're playing when they're not ready and struggle mightily, hear about it every second of every day, and become a shell of themselves.


Im pretty convinced Hackenberg was just a waste of a draft pick for us. We are drafting a QB either this year or next which means he's not in the long term plans. He needed to go somewhere where he could sit behind a guy for a couple years, that wasn't the case here.


He may very well have been. I hated the pick but i do see the upside. We cant take a QB at 6 this year. It would be a nightmare.

I disagree. I think the main problem is people want Hack and go 11-5. Everyone should know that won't happen. Go look at virtually every qbs 1st year starting, they weren't good. Let's just look to last year... Wentz looked good early and struggled big time as the year went on. Never once did philly say bench him. Bc it's part of the process. God was in a different situation and only started like 1/3 of the year and struggled yet LA will stay with the process, bc you have to be patient. We've became a franchise that has no patience and that freaks out when we aren't good. Yes sometimes a QB just isn't good, but I don't think anyone can say Hack doesn't have all the tools to succeed in the NFL. Play him this year and let him get the bumps and bruises. This will set up for the future. Maybe this season and even next season are rough, but Hack will still only be 24 and we could have our guy for 10-15 years.


No offense, but it's kind of foolish to think the only way to develop a QB is to throw them to the wolves. I agree, patience is very important, but more importantly, they have to be ready to play. Hack has the physical tools to play QB, but he doesn't know how to use them. His mechanics were awful and his feet were worse than that. I don't know how far he's come, but no, he could not have survived a trial by fire this year.

I am in no way saying Hack can be Rodgers, but they both had similar issues coming into the league. Look at how Aaron throws the ball now and compare it to when he was at Cal. Everything is different. It takes time to fix mechanics. Yes, Rodgers had a HoF in front of him and we had Fitz, but the time that Rodgers had to sit, learn, work on his craft must have helped him immensely. Again, I am in no way, shape, or form saying Hack is Rodgers. I'm just saying that time on the bench isn't bad if they're developing behind the scenes.

Eventually, yes, there will come a time when Hack will have to show us the fruit of his labor, but you can't expect him to do that without the necessary coaching and fundamentals.



Truth: you won't truly know how good a QB is until they get a season-plus of starting experience.
Fallacy: knowing that you have a potential long-term starter doesn't have to require early career starts.


The Jets will know by year 2-3 whether they have "something" or "nothing" in Hackenberg without him stepping on the field in a game. That's not to say "something" means he'll be a great QB, rather, it means he has shown enough development for the team to be optimistic of his potential to be a long-term starter. Potential is the key word.

Using the Aaron Rodgers example is appropriate because while the team internally felt very good about his potential when it was his turn to start, they still took Brian Brohm in the 2nd round to hedge their bets in case that potential amounted to nothing in live action. He went on to become one of the best QBs that ever lived.

The Broncos felt good enough about Osweiler to offer him upwards of $65 million last offseason. Whether or not they admit it, they surely didn't expect him to play the way he did this year or else they wouldn't have made the offer.


No one is saying that time will lead to Hackenberg becoming some great QB, but the organization can evaluate him without forcing him into the lineup. It's kind of like Garoppolo - we've been hearing Bill's love for him before any of his starts. How did he know? Because he has seen his progression in practice. Time will tell; no need to rush hack into the lineup - it'll only be a disservice to him and the team.

GB had Favre, NE had Brady so those examples don't equate for a situation like ours. The Denver one is the most similar to ours and even there situation wasn't similar to ours. We have NO ONE at QB. Therefor why not start Hack? At this point I think starting Petty is kinda pointless. I'd still rather start Petty than a guy like Cutler though. I don't think any QB over 26yrs old should start a game for us next season. We are clearly in a rebuild and wasting cap space and time isn't what we should be doing. Not playing a young QB is wasting time when you're rebuilding. Hack isn't coming in and starting right away, he sat a year. He also isn't a QB with no experience, he started every game for 3 years at a big university against good competition and succeeded under a good offense at 18 years old. Yes he had some flaws when we drafted him, but that's why he sat last year. And of course at 22 he isn't a finished product, but I'm all for putting him in there and letting him grow along with the team. We shouldn't baby him.


I had a post typed up but I'll just say this. This is pretty dead on about how I feel about the situation.
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