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DAB/RDC 2016 All Time City Draft: Discussion Thread v2.0
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DrawABlank


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 5140
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:47 pm    Post subject: DAB/RDC 2016 All Time City Draft: Discussion Thread v2.0 Reply with quote

RULES

Team List
DrawABlank wrote:
1. ravens_rool28 / I_GET_SAX - Seattle, Washington
2. RaykwonDaChef / NickChowaniec - Buffalo, New York
3. djw4bucs - Tampa, Florida
4. JohnnyV22 - Boston, Massachusetts
5. PyroDog - Miami, Florida
6. tom cody/jonnguy2015 - New York, New York
7. MultipleMigs33 - Maui, Hawaii
8. DrawABlank - London, England
9. Amac - New Orleans, Louisiana
10. CHOMP_CHOMP - Denver, Colorado


Drafting/Roster Format

Basketball / NBA: 13
12 Players of any position; Head Coach
Hockey / NHL: 18
3 Forward Lines; 3 Defensive Lines; 2 Goalies; Head Coach
Soccer / FIFA: 18
11 starters; 6 substitutes; Manager
Baseball / MLB: 22
12 position player including a DH; 5 starting pitchers; 4 relievers; Manager
Football / NFL: 36
15 on Offense (at least 5 OL); 15 on Defense; Kicker/Punter/Returner; Head Coach and Offensive/Defensive Coordinators

Rd 1-35 - 1 pick per slot (35)
Rd 36-53 - 2 picks per slot (36)
Rd 54-65 - 3 picks per slot (36)
---
Total: 107 Picks


Drafting Guidelines
- The player pool is any player that played in ANY league (including the ABA, USFL, AFL, Negro Leagues, Japanese Leagues, Soviet League etc.) after 1900

- If they played before 1900 you don't count their performance before that time, but all post-1900 performance is fine.

- All picks based on WHAT THE PLAYER HAS DONE up to now, not what they will do (assume they will die tomorrow)

- You can judge exactly what you think by "the best all time" but era dominance, peak value, career value, talent level, impact on the sport / historical influence, accomplishments/accolades and statistics are all factors.

- Level of competition is a relevant factor too both in terms of leagues and era - being team of the tournament of the 1990 Leyland DAF Cup is less impressive than the 1970 World Cup; dominating pre-integration basketball is less impressive than the same dominance in the late 80s.

- Individuals can only be drafted once. They can be allocated as either a coach or player once the final roster is set.

- Trades are fine, but must be for equivalent numbers of draft picks (2 for 2; not 4 for 1). You can trade a player you've already drafted, as well as future picks. Trading conversations are always held via PM, but you may announce that you are shopping a pick or looking to move up/down to get the attention of other GMs.
(Please try not to hold lengthy trade discussions when OTC)

- I reserve the right to veto any trade deemed against the spirit of competition (teams "tanking" a sport or trading down for negative value). This will be used only in extremely rare circumstances.

- Draft order will be determined by random.org once signups have closed.


Administration Rules
1. Time slots will begin after the 1st round (as no one wants to miss their 1st round pick) - normally between 2 and 4 hours in length but never shorter than 90 minutes. If we get ahead of the timeslots by more than 24 hours I reserve the right to move them forward.

2. If you are not sure whether you will be available to make your pick within the allotted time, please send an ordered list of players to someone. I (DrawABlank) am generally available from the first timeslot through till about 8pm EST; if after that then RaykwonDaChef is a good choice. Alternatively, post for a volunteer in the discussion thread.

3. You MUST send a PM to the next GM to alert them that it is their turn, and WATCH the draft thread (once it is open) for replies:

You should also change your board preferences so that you receive an email when you receive a PM. This ensures you know when you are OTC.

4. NEVER mention an undrafted player. It is poor etiquette. If quoting a source about a player you’re drafting, simply substitute the undrafted player's name with XXXX XXXX.
This only refers to draft-eligible players; you can say "that guy is the best RB since Jim Brown" as Brown is not available in the player pool.

5. Please post in the roster thread either before or shortly after making your 1st round pick (I will send a PM reminder after 48 hours if not done). Please try to keep this updated, although I appreciate it may not always be convenient when posting from mobile. After the draft has finished there will be a 2 day grace period to update your rosters. THIS is last year's roster thread for comparison.

6. Any problems will be settled by me and RDC unless it involves our teams, in which case Chomp Chomp will adjudicate. Any changes to these rules can only be made by a unanimous vote of all GMs

Voting

At the end of the process, we will open threads for each sport and ask people to give their rankings (without ranking their own teams in the case of participants, although other people will vote). We will then tally these to arrive at the winners of individual sports.

To judge the overall, we will weigh the NFL rankings in the following way: 15-12-10-8-6-5-4-3-2-0 (15 points for 1st place and so on) and the other sports: 11-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-0. The score from all 5 sports will be added together and the highest overall tally will be declared the winner and receive bragging rights and an internet cake.

We also will try to get "experts" from each individual sport to provide their own in depth feedback. This idea is in development although I have had good feedback from two potential candidates.
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JohnnyV22


Joined: 17 Nov 2015
Posts: 2258
Location: FLO-rida
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well I guess I'll leadoff here...

too funny...I knew that's who DAB was going to take every since we made the earlier trade... Howe played into my comment of fun vs. what I should do...I'm fine with it....he's a 'DAB guy'...Karlsson is a 'Johnny guy' and I love the modern pairing with Keith. And I enjoyed this article I read on him today...

Quote:
At the halfway point of the 2015-16 NHL season, Erik Karlsson stands alone in leading both all NHL defenceman and all Ottawa Senators skaters in points. He’s the clear front-runner to win the Norris Trophy for a third time as the league’s best rearguard.

Despite his successes, Karlsson is dogged by a reputation for weak defensive play. He’s seen as lacking in size and strength, his work ethic in the defensive zone has been called out and his willingness to play aggressive hockey with the puck is often looked upon with suspicion. Is he really deserving of the plaudits he’s received?

Any conversation must start with Karlsson’s unique offensive gifts, gifts he has demonstrated time and again. It's a rare thing indeed to see an NHL defenceman take the puck in the defensive zone, charge up the ice and then start and finish a give-and-go play.

He has 42 points in just 40 games this season, which ranks fourth among all NHL players. Going over the plays in which he picked up a point reveals a combination of the obviously exciting and the deceptively ordinary.

Much of Karlsson’s value comes from things with only a lose association to point totals. He’s well-known as one of the best passers in the game, and that quality has extreme value whenever the Senators exit the defensive zone. However, just four of his 33 assists this season were the result of clean outlet passes.

That's a point worth highlighting. A clean outlet pass has a lot of value, even if many of its practitioners fail to pick up a point on those plays. It gets the puck out of the defensive zone on the first try, avoiding a costly turnover or a desperation clear which allows the opposition to regroup and attack again immediately. It supports the attack, too; in many cases a good outlet pass is the "third" assist on a goal.

That's not to say that Karlsson is hurting for points. He scores on brilliantly creative plays, and he scores in deceptively mundane ways, too. The latter are of special interest, because any player who can make scoring look mechanical is indeed impressive.

Karlsson isn’t predictable at the top of the zone. He has seven power-play points on the year going with the shot; three of them beat the goalie, and four others either created a tempting rebound or were redirected en route. The rest of his scoring on the man advantage has come from distributing to the side most likely to put a goal in.

All this is uncontroversial. More hotly debated is Karlsson’s work without the puck. No less an authority than the Hockey News wrote that he “struggles with defensive zone coverage at times.” Don Brennan of the Ottawa Sun was decidedly more scathing last season, calling Karlsson’s attitude “laissez-faire” and suggesting he’d be well-served by “a slap in the back of the head.”

Those are serious complaints, one from an industry standby and the other from a local commentator. Both, however, miss the mark.

Part of the problem is the way we tend to think about defensive hockey. A big defenceman who can break up the opposition cycle is often universally recognized as a quality defensive player, while a fast defenceman who prevents the opposition from even gaining the defensive zone gets much less credit. Given a choice, the latter is obviously preferable.

This is why an analysis based on on-ice shot metrics is so valuable. The things Karlsson does have value, both offensively and defensively, and are reflected in how his team’s even-strength shot rates change when he’s on and off the ice. With Karlsson out there, not only does Ottawa average four more shots per hour, it also surrenders nearly four fewer.

The truth is that while Karlsson isn’t a traditional defensive specialist, neither is he a one-way player. It’s his ability to collect points that really separates him from the NHL pack, but to focus exclusively on that quality is to miss out on all the other attributes which make him such a great player.

Karlsson, the best defenceman in the league this season, is at the forefront of a change in his position. Increasingly, defencemen are expected to be mobile, capable with the puck and able both to support the attack and to keep the opposition from even entering the defensive zone. These are the qualities which make a defenceman elite; increasingly, they’re also the qualities necessary even just for continued NHL employment.
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DrawABlank


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 5140
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, there are enough good metrics out there to support the notion that Karlsson is so good as a possession player that his lack of a great physical defensive game is overridden. I like the pick a lot; obviously he doesn't fit my longevity angle but he's worth it to others, and he has major hardware.

I expect I'd value Coffey a lot if the advanced stats had been around in his day. Still not on board with Housley though Laughing
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JohnnyV22


Joined: 17 Nov 2015
Posts: 2258
Location: FLO-rida
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrawABlank wrote:
Yeah, there are enough good metrics out there to support the notion that Karlsson is so good as a possession player that his lack of a great physical defensive game is overridden. I like the pick a lot; obviously he doesn't fit my longevity angle but he's worth it to others, and he has major hardware.

I expect I'd value Coffey a lot if the advanced stats had been around in his day. Still not on board with Housley though Laughing


thank you, Sir
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DrawABlank


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 5140
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RaykwonDaChef wrote:
If we hadn't taken Willie Wood or Marcel is was Howe. I knew he wasn't getting passed you once I learned he was Gordie's son and obviously you'd want to pair King Henrik with Pavel.

Good pick.

Now I gotta find another freaking LD.


Yeah, definitely wanted to pair up Henrik and Pavel. Would have gone there next pick - thanks for saving me from another redraft.

Somewhat surprised you never made the connection that he was Gordie's son though....
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DrawABlank


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 5140
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, sorry about the thread move, but with the way the discussion has been going I couldn't promise we'd be finished inside 125 pages, so needed to make a pre-emptive strike.

Hopefully Johnny can provide us enough esoteric drafts to keep us occupied through the gaps between picks for the second half of the draft....
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JohnnyV22


Joined: 17 Nov 2015
Posts: 2258
Location: FLO-rida
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrawABlank wrote:
Hopefully Johnny can provide us enough esoteric drafts to keep us occupied through the gaps between picks for the second half of the draft....


Haha. Oh I have a few more. My individual hip hop artist basketball team is absolutely en fuego. I actually have a TON of great basketball ones (all lefty draft, all shooter draft, all dunker, all defense, all white guy, all foreign born), I just cannot post them as they are chock full of yet to be drafted players.
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DrawABlank


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 5140
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JohnnyV22 wrote:
DrawABlank wrote:
Hopefully Johnny can provide us enough esoteric drafts to keep us occupied through the gaps between picks for the second half of the draft....


Haha. Oh I have a few more. My individual hip hop artist basketball team is absolutely en fuego. I actually have a TON of great basketball ones (all lefty draft, all shooter draft, all dunker, all defense, all white guy, all foreign born), I just cannot post them as they are chock full of yet to be drafted players.


Kind of like that one. Pretty thin at certain positions - the #1 pick gets a massive advantage getting the best player and a small forward, which has to be the thinnest position (well, wings in general) - but you could have fun with it.
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ravens_rool28


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 22994
Location: #BOOZE
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might want to break out some of those drafts, Johnny... Saxy is in bed, and we need to discuss our picks a little more. We won't be making them until tomorrow most likely.

Sorry to slow the pace, but I'm not going to make the picks without solidifying the selections with my Co-gm.

Edit: To be totally fair, the only reason I'm up right now is because I'm off work tomorrow haha. Chances are we'd have made these picks in the AM either way
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sayheykid wrote:
So true Russ. A just God would exercise his omnipotent influence over a football game.




Last edited by ravens_rool28 on Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NickChowaniec


Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 5676
Location: Buffalo
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Impressive job hitting 100 pages gents!
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DrawABlank


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 5140
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravens_rool28 wrote:
Might want to break out some of those drafts, Johnny... Saxy is in bed, and we need to discuss our picks a little more. We won't be making them until tomorrow most likely.

Sorry to slow the pace, but I'm not going to make the picks without solidifying the selections with my Co-gm.


No worries, we've got through more than a round today so we're fine for speed.

Saxy is normally up pretty early, so if you give him some ideas he can probably make the picks when he's up.
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ravens_rool28


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 22994
Location: #BOOZE
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrawABlank wrote:
ravens_rool28 wrote:
Might want to break out some of those drafts, Johnny... Saxy is in bed, and we need to discuss our picks a little more. We won't be making them until tomorrow most likely.

Sorry to slow the pace, but I'm not going to make the picks without solidifying the selections with my Co-gm.


No worries, we've got through more than a round today so we're fine for speed.

Saxy is normally up pretty early, so if you give him some ideas he can probably make the picks when he's up.
I've been peppering our Chatzy with ideas hahaha. We have a pretty good idea of where we're going, just want to finalize it really.
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sayheykid wrote:
So true Russ. A just God would exercise his omnipotent influence over a football game.


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DrawABlank


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 5140
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravens_rool28 wrote:
DrawABlank wrote:
ravens_rool28 wrote:
Might want to break out some of those drafts, Johnny... Saxy is in bed, and we need to discuss our picks a little more. We won't be making them until tomorrow most likely.

Sorry to slow the pace, but I'm not going to make the picks without solidifying the selections with my Co-gm.


No worries, we've got through more than a round today so we're fine for speed.

Saxy is normally up pretty early, so if you give him some ideas he can probably make the picks when he's up.
I've been peppering our Chatzy with ideas hahaha. We have a pretty good idea of where we're going, just want to finalize it really.


If I did the co-GM thing again I'd definitely make a chatzy. The PMing with RDC got supremely tiresome on my phone.
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ravens_rool28


Joined: 05 Sep 2009
Posts: 22994
Location: #BOOZE
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrawABlank wrote:
ravens_rool28 wrote:
DrawABlank wrote:
ravens_rool28 wrote:
Might want to break out some of those drafts, Johnny... Saxy is in bed, and we need to discuss our picks a little more. We won't be making them until tomorrow most likely.

Sorry to slow the pace, but I'm not going to make the picks without solidifying the selections with my Co-gm.


No worries, we've got through more than a round today so we're fine for speed.

Saxy is normally up pretty early, so if you give him some ideas he can probably make the picks when he's up.
I've been peppering our Chatzy with ideas hahaha. We have a pretty good idea of where we're going, just want to finalize it really.


If I did the co-GM thing again I'd definitely make a chatzy. The PMing with RDC got supremely tiresome on my phone.
Jesus... I can only imagine lolol
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sayheykid wrote:
So true Russ. A just God would exercise his omnipotent influence over a football game.


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JohnnyV22


Joined: 17 Nov 2015
Posts: 2258
Location: FLO-rida
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ravens_rool28 wrote:
Might want to break out some of those drafts, Johnny... Saxy is in bed, and we need to discuss our picks a little more. We won't be making them until tomorrow most likely.

Sorry to slow the pace, but I'm not going to make the picks without solidifying the selections with my Co-gm.

Edit: To be totally fair, the only reason I'm up right now is because I'm off work tomorrow haha. Chances are we'd have made these picks in the AM either way


How bout this since I don't have a link to the actual draft (it's all contained in a 1,500 comment Facebook thread), but I did make my best attempt to write a little rhyme for my team. Keep in mind their were 6 GM's and this is the team I came up with:

PG - Eminem
TuG- Tupac Shakur
SF - Jay-Z
PF - Ice Cube
C - Biggie Smalls
6th - Snoop Dogg
Producer - Pete Rock
DJ - Grandmaster Flash
Female - Missy Elliott
Wild Card - Human Beat Box

ALL-TIME

Everybody from the 4-1-3 put your mutha____in' hands up and follow me...
I said everybody from the 4-1-3, put ya mutha___in hands up...up...up
1st off I wanna thank Tommy John, the crafty draft creator,
Took his idea, ran and got me a devastator...
Took Biggie #1 to anchor my middle,
Droppin' beats and rhymes like Johnny playin a fiddle...
Now we go out west to grab my man Pac...
Best start runnin' when my squad approaches your block!!
Tupac, the TuGuard, be juking fools left and crossing em right....
Get used to it cause Pac is droppin' buckets and all NIGHT
Had to dump Big Daddy Kane but it ain't no thang,
We still get the job DONE and we're bringing the PAIN!
Got my underrated white boy with the stylistic flow,
Eminem my point guard who better to run the show??
Ice Cube on the block where he needs to get fed...
Stay out the middle unless you want your a$$ filled with lead
When my small forward gets the ball your chances are OVAH
Cmon son how you expect to lockdown the HOVA??
My 4 legged 6th man got a real mean bite...
Snoop Dizzle for that a$$ bout to shoot out the lights!
When Missy goes hard you best step out the lane...
And when she's droppin mad 3's you're singing "I, I, I can't' stand the rain!"
Pete Rock is the man that puts it all together...
Dropping BEATS so cold you better bring a sweater
Grandmaster Flash, the LEGEND on the 1's and 2's...
You sweatin' my team yet? I feel your rhythm and blues
Now who better to shut it down and put this contest on LOCK??
And the crowd goes willllld for the Human Beat Box!!!!
So much flavah all over the place...
Jumpers rhymes and dunks all up in ya face...
Is your flow quick enough to hang with our pace??
Cuz we got B Rabbit....and this is a turtle race...
Gonna smoke some fools and not leave a trace...
Only one question left...
Who's playing for 2nd place??
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