Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Tony Dungy admits to stealing signals
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL News
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lancerman


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 7810
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
I actually sort of agree with Jrry and Nabbs and I think that's a big reason that Goodell went on the ridiculous witch hunt he did with Brady and the Pats around deflategate. Basically, I let you off easy (relatively speaking) with Spygate and now I'm going to nail your arse to the wall for dirtying the NFL's image again with another controversy.

To me, destroying the evidence was an awful decision by the NFL league office. But it was quite possibly done to prevent a gigantic uproar if the real facts got out. Obviously, that's speculation, but the NFL opened itself for that by destroying the evidence.


First off summarizing giving the team and Belichick the biggest penalty in league history to that point as "let you off easy" is kind of laughable.

I think it's more likely that new commissioner came into the league talking tough like he was some sheriff who was going to crackdown. Saw this rule that was being unenforced that nobody was following (and multiple head coaches said as much). So he saw an opportunity to tighten and just sent a memo. Belichick ignored it because it was a common practice. Belichick gets reported. Now Goodell has the biggest franchise in his sport directly defying him and thumbing their nose at him after just one season on the job. Freaks out and does his "total control of the commissioner" thing, shuts the whole thing down, gets Belichick and Kraft to admit to it and hand over the tapes, slaps them with a big fine as a show of force, and closes the case and destroys the tapes so they don't have them anymore.

And then because he overreacted with the penalty and did everything unilaterally (like he is known to do) the rest of the owners got suspicious and upset that there was a lack of transparency.

So if you are the Patriots, Goodell got you to fall on your sword, take a big penalty, and a PR hit. If you are Goodell you thought that was a quick victory, but it pissed off the other owners and now they think you are favoring a team.

Then deflategate happened and the owners pushed him to go hard over a minor violation and make a big show of force, and the Patriots fought back because they basically took an L for something they considered a minor offense that everybody did.

Or it was just some crazy 9/11 conspiracy of the league lying to the media and they discovered more, the coach of the Jets who actually knew the Patriots practice beforehand (which is why he reported it) downplayed the whole thing and spent years never bringing up a more nefarious practice, and Goodell deliberately miss informed the media by showing them footage of the tapes. All so he could protect a franchise by giving them the stiffest penalty of all time and then would later go overboard and try to railroad them with an equipment violation.

It's a big reach and it requires alot of moving parts to be deliberately deceiving and people who have no reason to lie (like Mangini) to downplay everything even though he got the ball rolling on it in the first place. That and there's just zero proof of it besides conjencture.
_________________
Signature
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Art_Vandalay


Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 24204
Location: Thornton, CO
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't even remotely the same as what the Pats were penalized for but okay Laughing
_________________

Bird Watch: DE Vinny Curry - Last seen robbing Philly of $47 mil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
lancerman


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 7810
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art_Vandalay wrote:
This isn't even remotely the same as what the Pats were penalized for but okay Laughing


The Pats were penalized for video taping signals in an undesignated area. Everybody steals signals, it's just their is a framework for what you can't do. And the Pats broke that framework (granted those parameters were only enforced when Goodell got there).

Like I said earlier, Pat's fans are just giving everybody else crap for treating this like it's nothing (and how both situations should have been received) while the Pats did something slightly different that had a similar effect but was distinctly outside those reaffirmed rules, and it became a decade long whining fest.
_________________
Signature
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nabbs4u


Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 28836
Location: 1st Ballot Eagles HOF 3x Gold Standard 09' /10 '/11' 2X ENBD/Pick em Winner Kiltman on the Sig
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with the Entirety of Spy Gate is "We will never Know". Goodell created that when he felt the need to destroy the Evidence of what Patriots fans want the world to believe, wasn't a big deal. Yeah OK! Wink It's like the NFL version of the Grassy Knoll. A of bunch a BS that doesn't add up.

Before some idiot goes on a rampage suggesting I'm comparing an Assassination of a President to Spygate rather then reading between the lines that Both scenarios the public was being sold a bunch of Crap so it just goes away, Don't.
_________________

Bird Watch: TE Zach Ertz: 14Gm/ 106Tgt //78 Rec//812 Yds//4 TD//10.5 Y/R
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
lancerman


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 7810
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The flaw in this entire "conspiracy" is the person who informed the league was Eric Mangini. A former Patriot coordinator. So he would have known the extent when it happened to his team. He has since been ostracized from the organization.

He has no real reason to downplay it. It makes no sense. He even said regretted the whole thing. Just like the Patriots, assuming it was worse, have no reason to hand over anything besides what the NFL was asking for.

And he isn't the only guy to leave the organization. And no stories have come out in 10 years. Which begs the question why?

And they showed the tapes to the media. That in itself was a lot. It's not like they would have released all the tapes to the public anyways.
_________________
Signature
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
patman


Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 1450
Location: Tiverton RI
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
PatriotsWin! wrote:
Dungy justified stealing signals by saying everyone did it and it's been that way forever. But he made sure to point out it's not cheating. Well unless you tape it from the wrong place Laughing

I mean I get it. Rules are rules and if you shouldn't tape from a nondesignated area then that's wrong and that should have consequences. What gets me about the whole spygate thing was how everyone over reacted to it and how over the top the penalty was after said overreaction. Everyone (including the Colts) kept the mouths shut when it came to their signal stealing. Few were brave enough to admit to doing the same things (Jimmy Johnson and the Cowboys and the Steelers). Everyone else pretended signal stealing didn't happen.


It's very much the opposite. People don't know the extent of Spygate, and the NFL let the Patriots off with a slap on the wrist.

The NFL knew how damaging Spygate would be to its legitimacy. That is why the NFL destroyed the evidence so quickly. You don't destroy all of the evidence like Goodell did if you have nothing to hide.

I'm glad that Faulk has the balls to not let it go. He knows he was cheated. And he's not the only one.

It's no surprise that Dante Scarnecchia's son (who worked for the Patriots in their video department from 2001 to 2004) got caught videotaping an opposing team's practice illegally even after the Spygate scandal. We all know where he learned to do that.


you understand that media members including Vic Caruuci seen the tapes.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/bob-glauber/spygate-tapes-hardly-a-must-see-1.532081

People are turning him destroying the tapes into a grassy knoll, Bush knew 9-11 thing. What was the purpose of keeping them?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
1ForTheThumb


Joined: 06 Dec 2016
Posts: 186
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Nabbs4u"]This in no way is similar to Spygate, nice try PatriotsWin! Not unless you're telling me the Colts too were taping teams walk throughs and practices? Don't compare the two./quote]

You know this is just false right? This was an incorrect report by John Tomase and later retracted? Good try, though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
theJ


Moderator
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 22834
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
Good debate going here. I prefer Peyton Manning but I can see why most would choose Tom Brady.

The quotes trees in here, holy hell. I don't know how anyone has time to read those, let alone care enough to respond. They make my eyes glaze over.
_________________


If you're not in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?

~T.S. Eliot
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BLick12


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 31175
Location: South Jeezy fo sheezy
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lancerman wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
I actually sort of agree with Jrry and Nabbs and I think that's a big reason that Goodell went on the ridiculous witch hunt he did with Brady and the Pats around deflategate. Basically, I let you off easy (relatively speaking) with Spygate and now I'm going to nail your arse to the wall for dirtying the NFL's image again with another controversy.

To me, destroying the evidence was an awful decision by the NFL league office. But it was quite possibly done to prevent a gigantic uproar if the real facts got out. Obviously, that's speculation, but the NFL opened itself for that by destroying the evidence.


First off summarizing giving the team and Belichick the biggest penalty in league history to that point as "let you off easy" is kind of laughable.

I think it's more likely that new commissioner came into the league talking tough like he was some sheriff who was going to crackdown. Saw this rule that was being unenforced that nobody was following (and multiple head coaches said as much). So he saw an opportunity to tighten and just sent a memo. Belichick ignored it because it was a common practice. Belichick gets reported. Now Goodell has the biggest franchise in his sport directly defying him and thumbing their nose at him after just one season on the job. Freaks out and does his "total control of the commissioner" thing, shuts the whole thing down, gets Belichick and Kraft to admit to it and hand over the tapes, slaps them with a big fine as a show of force, and closes the case and destroys the tapes so they don't have them anymore.

And then because he overreacted with the penalty and did everything unilaterally (like he is known to do) the rest of the owners got suspicious and upset that there was a lack of transparency.

So if you are the Patriots, Goodell got you to fall on your sword, take a big penalty, and a PR hit. If you are Goodell you thought that was a quick victory, but it pissed off the other owners and now they think you are favoring a team.

Then deflategate happened and the owners pushed him to go hard over a minor violation and make a big show of force, and the Patriots fought back because they basically took an L for something they considered a minor offense that everybody did.

Or it was just some crazy 9/11 conspiracy of the league lying to the media and they discovered more, the coach of the Jets who actually knew the Patriots practice beforehand (which is why he reported it) downplayed the whole thing and spent years never bringing up a more nefarious practice, and Goodell deliberately miss informed the media by showing them footage of the tapes. All so he could protect a franchise by giving them the stiffest penalty of all time and then would later go overboard and try to railroad them with an equipment violation.

It's a big reach and it requires alot of moving parts to be deliberately deceiving and people who have no reason to lie (like Mangini) to downplay everything even though he got the ball rolling on it in the first place. That and there's just zero proof of it besides conjencture.


Well, it is letting them off easy if a possible alternative is forfeiting the title game(s) that the cheating occurred during.

And it's not just other owners that are upset and suspicious about the lack of transparency, the fans are the ones who are hurt the most by it. You guys are just quick to call it conspiracy theory, but the entire issue is that the fans aren't provided enough information from reliable sources and so it naturally creates further speculation and suspicion. It's especially frustrating and ridiculous given how the NFL managed Deflategate with everything out in the open. How can one case be managed entirely different from another?

And Mangini has every reason to lie, or at least to not reveal all the facts. His entire legacy is attached to those Pats teams. So I'm not sure that he is a great example to use to defend the case.

Look at the end of the day, the NFL botched the entire thing, just like they did with Deflategate. As a fan of the game, it is sickening to think that there is even the remote possibility that the NFL would sweep something more severe completely under the rug, but given their process it leaves the door open for doubt. And ultimately, it impacts the way that I view the Patriots organization as well. I respect Belichick as a coach and Tom Brady as a player, I think they are two of the best at their respective jobs, and they've proven that since. But a lot of their early success is clouded for me.
_________________

Bird Watch: Nolan Carroll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
lancerman


Joined: 06 Feb 2011
Posts: 7810
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
BLick12 wrote:
I actually sort of agree with Jrry and Nabbs and I think that's a big reason that Goodell went on the ridiculous witch hunt he did with Brady and the Pats around deflategate. Basically, I let you off easy (relatively speaking) with Spygate and now I'm going to nail your arse to the wall for dirtying the NFL's image again with another controversy.

To me, destroying the evidence was an awful decision by the NFL league office. But it was quite possibly done to prevent a gigantic uproar if the real facts got out. Obviously, that's speculation, but the NFL opened itself for that by destroying the evidence.


First off summarizing giving the team and Belichick the biggest penalty in league history to that point as "let you off easy" is kind of laughable.

I think it's more likely that new commissioner came into the league talking tough like he was some sheriff who was going to crackdown. Saw this rule that was being unenforced that nobody was following (and multiple head coaches said as much). So he saw an opportunity to tighten and just sent a memo. Belichick ignored it because it was a common practice. Belichick gets reported. Now Goodell has the biggest franchise in his sport directly defying him and thumbing their nose at him after just one season on the job. Freaks out and does his "total control of the commissioner" thing, shuts the whole thing down, gets Belichick and Kraft to admit to it and hand over the tapes, slaps them with a big fine as a show of force, and closes the case and destroys the tapes so they don't have them anymore.

And then because he overreacted with the penalty and did everything unilaterally (like he is known to do) the rest of the owners got suspicious and upset that there was a lack of transparency.

So if you are the Patriots, Goodell got you to fall on your sword, take a big penalty, and a PR hit. If you are Goodell you thought that was a quick victory, but it pissed off the other owners and now they think you are favoring a team.

Then deflategate happened and the owners pushed him to go hard over a minor violation and make a big show of force, and the Patriots fought back because they basically took an L for something they considered a minor offense that everybody did.

Or it was just some crazy 9/11 conspiracy of the league lying to the media and they discovered more, the coach of the Jets who actually knew the Patriots practice beforehand (which is why he reported it) downplayed the whole thing and spent years never bringing up a more nefarious practice, and Goodell deliberately miss informed the media by showing them footage of the tapes. All so he could protect a franchise by giving them the stiffest penalty of all time and then would later go overboard and try to railroad them with an equipment violation.

It's a big reach and it requires alot of moving parts to be deliberately deceiving and people who have no reason to lie (like Mangini) to downplay everything even though he got the ball rolling on it in the first place. That and there's just zero proof of it besides conjencture.


Well, it is letting them off easy if a possible alternative is forfeiting the title game(s) that the cheating occurred during.

And it's not just other owners that are upset and suspicious about the lack of transparency, the fans are the ones who are hurt the most by it. You guys are just quick to call it conspiracy theory, but the entire issue is that the fans aren't provided enough information from reliable sources and so it naturally creates further speculation and suspicion. It's especially frustrating and ridiculous given how the NFL managed Deflategate with everything out in the open. How can one case be managed entirely different from another?

And Mangini has every reason to lie, or at least to not reveal all the facts. His entire legacy is attached to those Pats teams. So I'm not sure that he is a great example to use to defend the case.

Look at the end of the day, the NFL botched the entire thing, just like they did with Deflategate. As a fan of the game, it is sickening to think that there is even the remote possibility that the NFL would sweep something more severe completely under the rug, but given their process it leaves the door open for doubt. And ultimately, it impacts the way that I view the Patriots organization as well. I respect Belichick as a coach and Tom Brady as a player, I think they are two of the best at their respective jobs, and they've proven that since. But a lot of their early success is clouded for me.


This all super far fetched to me.

1. Mangini has no reason to lie. He put the Patriots in position where if there was something more it had the potential to be found out. He acknowledges that ever since then his relationship with Belichick and the Patriot organization has deteriorated to the point where he is a pariah to the franchise. His legacy with the Patriots is virtually nothing. It's so hard to believe that a guy in that position would go out of his way to protect people that he a) put in danger of getting found out, b) is hated and disregarded by.

2. This all hinges on you believing what that Goodell deliberately tried to mislead the media and held the tapes he showed them were specifically picked to protect the Patriots. Because lets be honest, the fans were never getting any tapes released. They didn't get them released in Denver. So you have to believe the people he did show the tapes to were being lied to, that nobody in the NFL in 10 years who saw them said there was something more, and that no former Patriots employee have ever said something.

3. When has the NFL forfeited a title? We've had Super Bowl teams in recent years have a good chunk of players busted for PED's. We've had Super Bowl teams violate the salary cap with their star QB. We've had other SB coaches essentially admit to the same offense as Spygate.

4. Why would Belichick even give them tapes if there was something more on them? Like it's not like Goodell went through the entire Patriots archive.

I just find it very conspiratorial that there is supposedly something but nothing, not even substantial, but even vaguely, has ever come out to suggest it. You need to believe too many independent people that at multiple times were at odds with each other to cohesively work together.

I'm quick to call it a conspiracy theory because it is a conspiracy theory by definition. There's not getting around that. It's textbook.
_________________
Signature
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
m haynes


Joined: 29 Jan 2011
Posts: 1518
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:
I actually sort of agree with Jrry and Nabbs and I think that's a big reason that Goodell went on the ridiculous witch hunt he did with Brady and the Pats around deflategate. Basically, I let you off easy (relatively speaking) with Spygate and now I'm going to nail your arse to the wall for dirtying the NFL's image again with another controversy.

To me, destroying the evidence was an awful decision by the NFL league office. But it was quite possibly done to prevent a gigantic uproar if the real facts got out. Obviously, that's speculation, but the NFL opened itself for that by destroying the evidence.


You really think the owners would allow the hated Pats to get a break from Goodell. They got off easy! 1st round pick and $500 thou! The power owners hated the Pats, goodell is a puppet for them. No way, he would be fired.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Keleth


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 3168
Location: Restaurant at the end of the universe
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nabbs4u wrote:

You can no more Prove it a "fact" they didn't tape walkthroughs and practices then claiming I among others are making things up.


Point is he doesn't need to prove they don't exist others need to prove they exist.
I wish people would actually think about always using this sort of argument it just makes you look stupid.

If I said to you "you once stole from a charity" it wouldn't be up to you to disprove you did but up to me to prove you did.

I sincerely hope you're not 1 of the purported lawyers who post on this board.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Keleth


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 3168
Location: Restaurant at the end of the universe
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

m haynes wrote:

You really think the owners would allow the hated Pats to get a break from Goodell. They got off easy! 1st round pick and $500 thou! The power owners hated the Pats, goodell is a puppet for them. No way, he would be fired.


Kraft was and is one of those.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Keleth


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 3168
Location: Restaurant at the end of the universe
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLick12 wrote:

And Mangini has every reason to lie, or at least to not reveal all the facts.


Haha he has absolutely no reason to lie at all,he is pretty much despised by the Pats organisation and if anything has more reason to make it even worse for the Pats.

Did the Pats cheat ?
Most definitely.
Were they fairly punished for it ?
Yes.
Is Marshall Faulk just a bitter twisted ex player ?
Yes.

Since the invention of the internet it lets things out into the reach of the general public more than they ever were before which is good because people should have access to knowledge and be able to question things.
However it does not mean everything is a bloody conspiracy.
I cannot think of any major news story be it in sports or wherever that there does not end up a conspiracy theory behind it and the people who believe the theory seem to want to relentlessly shout it out from the rooftops.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ChazStandard


Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 6979
Location: The bandwagon, hop on up!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I love the idea that BB had tapes of the Rams practices that were so damning of his team that they could result in his titles being stripped....and just kept them lying around for six years, and then nonchalantly handed them over when asked.

In that time, Faulk had retired and Martz and Warner had both switched teams....twice. But still...keep the incredibly damning evidence, just in case.

The truth is that the league office resents the Patriots, mostly because of BB, because he refused to join the coaches association, and play-up to the press and engage in the theatre. They were itching for a chance to put them in their place, and massively overreacted...aided by a compliant and ill-informed sports media who like to get hysterical about non-events.
_________________
Adopt-a-Pat
2014 - Rob Gronkowski TE: Rec: 82 Yds: 1124 TD: 12
2015 - Rob Ninkovich DE: Tkl: 52 Sck: 6.5 FF: 1 FR: 1 INT: 0 PD: 7
2016 - Julian Edelman WR: Rec: 98 Yds: 1106 TD: 3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> NFL News All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 4 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group