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Does Von have any trade value?
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jsthomp2007


Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who would want Von? He is one year removed from dominating the entire post season and winning the Super Bowl MVP.
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Zukhyubern


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reminding me of all the people that said Champ Bailey could never get traded Think
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jolly red giant


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New England has the perfect combination of an organisation, a coach and a QB - take anyone of the three out of the equation and the end product isn't half what it is now.

BB wouldn't be remotely as successful as a coach if he didn't have Brady as a QB - NE wouldn't be remotely successful a franchise if they didn't have the combination of BB and Brady - and while Brady is a great QB he wouldn't have been half as successful as a QB if he wasn't in NE with BB as HC.

The big questions will arise for NE and BB when Brady retires and BB has to coach a roster that will demand payment without an elite QB who takes a massive discount because he doesn't need the money.

Miller is - potentially - the Brady of the Broncos - he is capable of doing what Brady does for the Pats and he will potentially do it for years into the future.

Even last week it was a case of defences win super bowls. The Atlanta defence couldn't stop Brady when it mattered and the Pats defence stopped the Falcons (and all of Shanahan's wizardry) when it mattered. Last year we had (and admittedly declining) Manning but it wasn't the HOF QB that won the game it was the defence - and specifically Miller.

The Broncos have an elite defence - a defence that if it is given the opportunity will destroy Brady - all it needs is a half decent offence that can run the ball a little bit and take time off the clock to let Miller (and Wolfe and Harris, and Talib and Stewart, and Ray, and Barrett, and Marshall, and Roby etc) do what they are paid to do.
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BroncosFan2010


Joined: 04 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calling Von Miller the Tom Brady of the Broncos is only accurate in as far as they are both their teams best players. In term of impact, Brady is considerably ahead of Von, and that's with me believing that Von is a top 3 defensive player in this league.

Our defense is great, but this was a good year for the offense to fall apart and for a missed playoff berth because I don't think we would have beaten the 2017 Patriots with even our 2016 defense. I mean, Brady was basically flawless outside the first half of that SB. They were on a mission and it was going to be their year.
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jolly red giant


Joined: 01 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Calling Von Miller the Tom Brady of the Broncos is only accurate in as far as they are both their teams best players. In term of impact, Brady is considerably ahead of Von, and that's with me believing that Von is a top 3 defensive player in this league.

Our defense is great, but this was a good year for the offense to fall apart and for a missed playoff berth because I don't think we would have beaten the 2017 Patriots with even our 2016 defense. I mean, Brady was basically flawless outside the first half of that SB. They were on a mission and it was going to be their year.
in week 15 the Broncos defence held the Pats to 16 points in a game where the Broncos could not move the ball on offence. They were the only defence all year that stopped Brady.

The Pats didn't win the SB - the Falcons threw the game away - completely - and Kyle Shanahan bears a lot of the responsibility by not being able to control the clock. All they had to do was keep Brady off the field and not give him any opportunities - and they blew it. Brady stepped in and took advantage of what the Falcons gave him.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Patriots are able to do what they do because Belichick is a genius.

He is the greatest coach in the history of the game when it comes to adapting not only to the players on his roster, but what the rest of the league is doing. He's won football games and championships in so many different ways and with so many different schemes. Belichick doesn't adhere to any specific scheme or system, like many coaches in this league, he takes what his roster gives him and puts his players in a position to succeed.

If you look at the Patriots since he has taken over they've won by being a smash mouth running team with a dominant 3/4 defense. They've won out of the shotgun and the vertical passing game. They've dinked and dunked to wins. They've played 3/4, hybrid, and 4/3 alignments. The Patriots are a different team almost every year.

The Patriots wouldn't have 5 SB's without Brady, but IMO, they probably still would have 2 or 3. I don't think the Patriots have 1 without Belichick.
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thebestever6


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
The Patriots are able to do what they do because Belichick is a genius.

He is the greatest coach in the history of the game when it comes to adapting not only to the players on his roster, but what the rest of the league is doing. He's won football games and championships in so many different ways and with so many different schemes. Belichick doesn't adhere to any specific scheme or system, like many coaches in this league, he takes what his roster gives him and puts his players in a position to succeed.

If you look at the Patriots since he has taken over they've won by being a smash mouth running team with a dominant 3/4 defense. They've won out of the shotgun and the vertical passing game. They've dinked and dunked to wins. They've played 3/4, hybrid, and 4/3 alignments. The Patriots are a different team almost every year.

The Patriots wouldn't have 5 SB's without Brady, but IMO, they probably still would have 2 or 3. I don't think the Patriots have 1 without Belichick.



I'd have to agree with everything you said. And the greatest thing about Bill B in my mind is he's able to field a top 5 roster yearly despite having poor resources to do so. I mean people say hiw drafting is so critical which it is a Bill B has had success picking bottom 5 every year. I'd love to know the Patriots average first round pick since he's been there.

Heck his success rate in the first round since he's been there is probably 20% or less the guy is amazing.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has no one else realized that if theSeahawks and Falcons had just run the ball when the book/common sense said run the ball the Pats/Bill/Brady would have lost 4 straight Super Bowls?
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thebestever6


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
Has no one else realized that if theSeahawks and Falcons had just run the ball when the book/common sense said run the ball the Pats/Bill/Brady would have lost 4 straight Super Bowls?


I mean I realize that but if you go to the big dance enough you're bound to catch a few breaks. And Pats did a lot vetter the second half the few times the Falcons ran it.


I'm glad Shanny wasn't the hire here. You need situational awareness if the Pats are dominating plays and time of possesion you have to sustain drives.


Kubiak was very good in attempting to do situational football.
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^Kukiak and Mike Shanahan were the best at closing out games...if they had a lead with mid-way through the 4th quarter, forget about it...they win.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
The Patriots are able to do what they do because Belichick is a genius.

He is the greatest coach in the history of the game when it comes to adapting not only to the players on his roster, but what the rest of the league is doing. He's won football games and championships in so many different ways and with so many different schemes. Belichick doesn't adhere to any specific scheme or system, like many coaches in this league, he takes what his roster gives him and puts his players in a position to succeed.

If you look at the Patriots since he has taken over they've won by being a smash mouth running team with a dominant 3/4 defense. They've won out of the shotgun and the vertical passing game. They've dinked and dunked to wins. They've played 3/4, hybrid, and 4/3 alignments. The Patriots are a different team almost every year.

The Patriots wouldn't have 5 SB's without Brady, but IMO, they probably still would have 2 or 3. I don't think the Patriots have 1 without Belichick.



I'd have to agree with everything you said. And the greatest thing about Bill B in my mind is he's able to field a top 5 roster yearly despite having poor resources to do so. I mean people say hiw drafting is so critical which it is a Bill B has had success picking bottom 5 every year. I'd love to know the Patriots average first round pick since he's been there.

Heck his success rate in the first round since he's been there is probably 20% or less the guy is amazing.


I would argue that Bill Belichick has rarely, if ever, had a Top 5 roster in terms of pure talent. He does, however, coach his players up to maximize what they can contribute. In fact, I would say Belichick is also not an especially good drafter. He has some hits, but relative to other teams, his draft record is poor.

Also underrated is how great their home field advantage is. Foxborough is cold and damp and loud. That makes for a tough environment.
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thebestever6


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
thebestever6 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
The Patriots are able to do what they do because Belichick is a genius.

He is the greatest coach in the history of the game when it comes to adapting not only to the players on his roster, but what the rest of the league is doing. He's won football games and championships in so many different ways and with so many different schemes. Belichick doesn't adhere to any specific scheme or system, like many coaches in this league, he takes what his roster gives him and puts his players in a position to succeed.

If you look at the Patriots since he has taken over they've won by being a smash mouth running team with a dominant 3/4 defense. They've won out of the shotgun and the vertical passing game. They've dinked and dunked to wins. They've played 3/4, hybrid, and 4/3 alignments. The Patriots are a different team almost every year.

The Patriots wouldn't have 5 SB's without Brady, but IMO, they probably still would have 2 or 3. I don't think the Patriots have 1 without Belichick.



I'd have to agree with everything you said. And the greatest thing about Bill B in my mind is he's able to field a top 5 roster yearly despite having poor resources to do so. I mean people say hiw drafting is so critical which it is a Bill B has had success picking bottom 5 every year. I'd love to know the Patriots average first round pick since he's been there.

Heck his success rate in the first round since he's been there is probably 20% or less the guy is amazing.


I would argue that Bill Belichick has rarely, if ever, had a Top 5 roster in terms of pure talent. He does, however, coach his players up to maximize what they can contribute. In fact, I would say Belichick is also not an especially good drafter. He has some hits, but relative to other teams, his draft record is poor.

Also underrated is how great their home field advantage is. Foxborough is cold and damp and loud. That makes for a tough environment.


http://grantland.com/the-triangle/bill-belichick-nfl-draft-new-england-patriots/

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4797150/most-notable-trades-among-bill-belichicks-121-with-patriots


I don'tknow how you can say he's a below average gm the guy is dealt a bottom 5 pick every year. And he knows that's not a recipe for success so he trades picks for future picks, trades for moss , and Welker, trades branch for a 1st, and Cassel for a second.


If he tradesJimmy G for a firsthe truly is a mastermind.


I was the biggest Paxton Lynch And Dak Prescott supporter last year I liked Paxton better but Elway couldof finnagled the Cowboys for a future first round pick and a third. And if we drafted Dak and had two first in this draft we'd be in tremendous shape.


Bill B turns water into wine even if he yields a top 10 roster that is crazy considering Pats are always in the post season.
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The Helicopter


Joined: 31 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jolly red giant wrote:

The Pats didn't win the SB - the Falcons threw the game away - completely - and Kyle Shanahan bears a lot of the responsibility by not being able to control the clock. All they had to do was keep Brady off the field and not give him any opportunities - and they blew it. Brady stepped in and took advantage of what the Falcons gave him.


This is absolutely insane. I dare you to go post that in the Pats forum and stick around to defend it. Woulda coulda shoulda all day long but the Pats totally won themselves that game. How many points did the Atlanta offense produce? #micdrop
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Last edited by The Helicopter on Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Helicopter


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
^^^Kukiak and Mike Shanahan were the best at closing out games...if they had a lead with mid-way through the 4th quarter, forget about it...they win.


Only when they had a running game. The second half flops became unbearable. He couldn't adjust to save his life.
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The Helicopter


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

elliot878 wrote:
Has no one else realized that if theSeahawks and Falcons had just run the ball when the book/common sense said run the ball the Pats/Bill/Brady would have lost 4 straight Super Bowls?


No guarantees. If this or if that maybe who knows. The point is they won. It was impressive each time.
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