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Does Von have any trade value?
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thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Does Von have any trade value? Reply with quote

This is purely what ifs in my category. But as of right now after signing his lucrative deal does Von Miller have trade value?

I watched that superbowl 51 and I always wondered what a team full of Derek Wolfes and Chris Harris could do and I saw it right before my eyes. That Patriots team all they cared about was winning just imagine if we had that. They'll take discounts to field a better team.

Von Miller takes up 1/6th of the salary if he goes down our season is over.
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champ11


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you have to pay for talent. the Patriots don't. frickin Chris Hogan was catching passes in the superbowl.

they are an anomaly due to having the best coach and best qb of all time.

Harris and Wolfe are also anomalies, imo. What they did was frankly kind of irresponsible.
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BroncosFan2010


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya, Harris and Wolfe are total outliers.

And what Patriots outside Tom Brady have taken serious discounts?

They are able to put mediocre talents out there on the OL and defense as a whole because they have the GOAT coach who milks his players for every ounce of talent they have. They take outcasts, players that look like they are declining, misfits and busts and manage to turn them into quality talents.

You cant try to build a team like NE because no coach is on BB's level at managing the above. If you try, you will fail.

Its a total fallacy that NE gets talent for discount. They don't (Outside Tom and his insane 9M salary, that's just Tom being the GOAT though). They do it in an even more impressive way, by polishing turds.
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iLikeDefense


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to think trading Von, who seems to be a great guy and leader would send a bad message to our team. Our defense would not be as threatening either. He's the cornerstone to our defense, and you want to trade him for a return that is highly questionable.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a ridiculous question. First of all, yes he has trade value. He's one of the best defensive players in football and that is thoroughly recognized by everyone. His contract is fair and would have been higher in FA.

It's also a little strange to compare Wolfe and Harris to the NE team. They are definitely at a contract discount to what they could be, but they aren't dirt cheap either.

NE wins because, first and foremost, they have the best QB to play football. They also have arguably the greatest coach. They have a pretty good stable of RBs, the best OL coach ever, and a receiving core that isn't spectacular but wins matchups often.

Defensively, they have some very talented players. They don't have someone like Von Miller, but they aren't bereft of talent either.
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champ11


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Ya, Harris and Wolfe are total outliers.

And what Patriots outside Tom Brady have taken serious discounts?

They are able to put mediocre talents out there on the OL and defense as a whole because they have the GOAT coach who milks his players for every ounce of talent they have. They take outcasts, players that look like they are declining, misfits and busts and manage to turn them into quality talents.

You cant try to build a team like NE because no coach is on BB's level at managing the above. If you try, you will fail.

Its a total fallacy that NE gets talent for discount. They don't (Outside Tom and his insane 9M salary, that's just Tom being married to the most famous model of all time though). They do it in an even more impressive way, by polishing turds.


fify
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BroncosFan2010


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ That is true champ11 but he still deserves some props. He is getting paid under 50% of what he could make. Usually guys take a few million less.

Even with a millionaire wife, he is making a noteworthy decision. Its just going to add to his legacy in the long run.
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champ11


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
^ That is true champ11 but he still deserves some props. He is getting paid under 50% of what he could make. Usually guys take a few million less.

Even with a millionaire wife, he is making a noteworthy decision. Its just going to add to his legacy in the long run.


Yeah, for sure.

The guy is an alien
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thebestever6


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncos67 wrote:
This is a ridiculous question. First of all, yes he has trade value. He's one of the best defensive players in football and that is thoroughly recognized by everyone. His contract is fair and would have been higher in FA.

It's also a little strange to compare Wolfe and Harris to the NE team. They are definitely at a contract discount to what they could be, but they aren't dirt cheap either.

NE wins because, first and foremost, they have the best QB to play football. They also have arguably the greatest coach. They have a pretty good stable of RBs, the best OL coach ever, and a receiving core that isn't spectacular but wins matchups often.

Defensively, they have some very talented players. They don't have someone like Von Miller, but they aren't bereft of talent either.


It's not a ridiculous question you realize Von Miller is making 65% of what New England's whole defensive depth chart is making?

A unit that gave the least amount of points per game in 2016? That is crazy.

So Im looking at what it takes to 1 win more superbowls and 2) become a dynasty.
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broncos67


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thebestever6 wrote:
broncos67 wrote:
This is a ridiculous question. First of all, yes he has trade value. He's one of the best defensive players in football and that is thoroughly recognized by everyone. His contract is fair and would have been higher in FA.

It's also a little strange to compare Wolfe and Harris to the NE team. They are definitely at a contract discount to what they could be, but they aren't dirt cheap either.

NE wins because, first and foremost, they have the best QB to play football. They also have arguably the greatest coach. They have a pretty good stable of RBs, the best OL coach ever, and a receiving core that isn't spectacular but wins matchups often.

Defensively, they have some very talented players. They don't have someone like Von Miller, but they aren't bereft of talent either.


It's not a ridiculous question you realize Von Miller is making 65% of what New England's whole defensive depth chart is making?

A unit that gave the least amount of points per game in 2016? That is crazy.

So Im looking at what it takes to 1 win more superbowls and 2) become a dynasty.


There's more than one way to skin a cat. You do realize Denver was equally as dominant as NE over at least the last 5 years, if not more so, right? Von Miller is one of the best players in football. You don't gauge his trade value because New England has done it differently.

What if, after Denver's 2015 SB, it was asked what Brady's value was, because the only way to win a SB is if you have a dominant defense?

New England's model works well for a few reasons. They have a legendary QB playing at a high level and the best coach ever. That plays into things more than their cap situation. Denver arguably has one of the best cap management philosophies in the league, by the way.
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champ11


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Patriots have never let a superstar of Miller's quality walk, for the record.

They let guys go at the tail end of their prime.

They might trade Gronk if he has some value due to the injuries........
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BroncosFan2010


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

It's not a ridiculous question you realize Von Miller is making 65% of what New England's whole defensive depth chart is making?

A unit that gave the least amount of points per game in 2016? That is crazy.

So Im looking at what it takes to 1 win more superbowls and 2) become a dynasty.


The best way to become a dynasty is to pair the best coach ever with the best quarterback ever. Trying to emulate NE is a fools errand. The primary ingredients are BB and TB. They have an advantage in having the GOAT HC and QB that isn't generational, its even more rare, maybe a once-in-a-century type pairing. Even that is arguable.

So ya, the question that your proposed doesn't work in any type of scenario because the two most important building blocks to create a dynasty like NE are going to come around once per lifetime.

Realistically, and statistically speaking, we are all VERY unlikely to have a period of dominance comparable to NE in our lifetimes (7 SB trips in 15 years). And that is fine. We are still likely to make a few, but don't compare Denver to NE, because their competitive advantage is on par with Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan. You don't try to build a team like the Chicago Bulls because it will fail without the two guys that really make the wheels turn.
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Ya, Harris and Wolfe are total outliers.

And what Patriots outside Tom Brady have taken serious discounts?

They are able to put mediocre talents out there on the OL and defense as a whole because they have the GOAT coach who milks his players for every ounce of talent they have. They take outcasts, players that look like they are declining, misfits and busts and manage to turn them into quality talents.

You cant try to build a team like NE because no coach is on BB's level at managing the above. If you try, you will fail.

Its a total fallacy that NE gets talent for discount. They don't (Outside Tom and his insane 9M salary, that's just Tom having a wife who pulls in $50m/year though). They do it in an even more impressive way, by polishing turds.



FIFY 😉
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

champ11 wrote:
BroncosFan2010 wrote:
Ya, Harris and Wolfe are total outliers.

And what Patriots outside Tom Brady have taken serious discounts?

They are able to put mediocre talents out there on the OL and defense as a whole because they have the GOAT coach who milks his players for every ounce of talent they have. They take outcasts, players that look like they are declining, misfits and busts and manage to turn them into quality talents.

You cant try to build a team like NE because no coach is on BB's level at managing the above. If you try, you will fail.

Its a total fallacy that NE gets talent for discount. They don't (Outside Tom and his insane 9M salary, that's just Tom being married to the most famous model of all time though). They do it in an even more impressive way, by polishing turds.


fify



Oh snap didn't read down far enough
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elliot878


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would actually argue that no Von Miller does not have trade value. I'm saying this from the Broncos perspective. Unless a guy of Von's caliber is forcing his way out of town, players that good don't have value in a trade for their team. The reason I say this is because as the Broncos, if you trade Von Miller, even for the 1st overall pick and other picks, the return on the players picked is an unknown, whereas Von's production is a certainty at this point in his career.

Of course he has value, in the fact that he'd command a return if dealt. But is there value in the fact that the return is a complete unknown that will likely be incapable of replacing what was traded? The way NFL trades work (picks, rarely player for player) it doesn't make sense to trade superstars, unless they're unmanageable.
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