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Julian Edelman's Place In Patriots History
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GoldenboyGB


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point id say hes surpassed Welker in my heart.

Troy Brown
Edelman
Welker

Welker statiscally was amazing but he truly was an extension of our non existent run game during those years. He just truly and I know some guys on here feel differently did not come through in the clutch when it was time.

Its apart of it all. Welker and Edelman both will be in the Pats HOF. Neither will actually make it to canton.


Third edit. Im comparing current Patriots not past greats (Morgan).
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Deadpulse


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welsh Patriot wrote:
Am I correct in saying Welker was the better player but Edelman will always be remembered as the better Patriot. 2 Super Bowls - first one he threw for a touchdown to get there and caught the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. Second one he had 'the catch'.

Based on that Edelman will always be remembered as the better Patriot.

Anyone debate that he was better than Welker in general?


I think Julian is more talented than Welker. He is a better athlete, has comparable quickness, burst, and hands but is much more versatile and play almost any spot on offense.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will Welker make the Pats HOF? I don't know that that's a given even with the stats he piled up.

There's a backlog of guys who need to get in from Super Bowl winning teams and if the Pats pass over those 2001-2004 guys or this new crop of winners for a guy with no rings, I'd be surprised.

Welker and Mankins shouldn't sniff the Pats HOF until the key Super Bowl winners are all in. Both those guys choked hard in Super Bowls and their regular season excellence will likely be forgotten in time.

If the Pats didn't have so many worthy guys, maybe I'd be more willing to see them in but a big part of being in a team's HOF should be contributing to a Super Bowl win or being a tremendous player on bad teams. If you're a really good player for a few years on good/really good teams that never won anything, I don't think that's good enough in New England given their success.

And TBH, I'd put Moss in before Welker or Mankins solely based on his 2007 dominance.

Welker had his shot at immortality and he blew it. And he hasn't exactly been a Pro Patriots guy after leaving town. By the time he gets a shot at the team HOF, he'll hopefully be passed on the Pats all time leaderboards.

Dropped a Super Bowl icing catch, dropped key passes vs the Ravens in 2012 and got himself benched for the opening series of the team's biggest flop of the Belichick era. Put up gaudy bulk stats on teams that never won anything. He's the opposite of what I want to see in the team's HOF given the ridiculous run of success the team has had. Maybe his stats get him in eventually but he'd have a better shot if he didn't burn some bridges on the way out of town.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
Welsh Patriot wrote:
Am I correct in saying Welker was the better player but Edelman will always be remembered as the better Patriot. 2 Super Bowls - first one he threw for a touchdown to get there and caught the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. Second one he had 'the catch'.

Based on that Edelman will always be remembered as the better Patriot.

Anyone debate that he was better than Welker in general?


I think Julian is more talented than Welker. He is a better athlete, has comparable quickness, burst, and hands but is much more versatile and play almost any spot on offense.


Welker had slightly better footwork off the snap but Edelman is a more talented guy otherwise.
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hALF_pAST_sEVEN


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Julian Edelman is a pit bull. I have so much respect for that guy and I'm not even a pats supporter. When he went over the middle and took that head shot by Bam Bam against Seattle but still held on to the ball, I was sold on this guy. If it wasn't for Gronk I'd think he would be a consistent 90-100 catches and 1100-1200 yards a season type of wr. My broncos sure could've used this guy against Seattle in that Superbowl cause DT and the boys was scared out of their minds Laughing
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lancerman wrote:
Welsh Patriot wrote:
Am I correct in saying Welker was the better player but Edelman will always be remembered as the better Patriot. 2 Super Bowls - first one he threw for a touchdown to get there and caught the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. Second one he had 'the catch'.

Based on that Edelman will always be remembered as the better Patriot.

Anyone debate that he was better than Welker in general?


In general terms yes. Welker was a better version of Edelman. Definitly a more impactful individual player. He's probably the one Patriot of the Brady era who didn't get a ring that really deserved one with Mankins being the other. It's unfortunate that all the great things he did and probably being the signature receiver in Brady's career won't be remembered how it should be or in the proper context because of that dropped pass and then going to a rival team.

Edelman played very similar. A little less explosive and productive. But he has the same level of chemistry with Brady. Just not as athletic.

But Edelman will go down as the more important Patriot. He had big moments when it mattered most. And honestly that catch guaranteed him NFL immortality.


Would love to hear the argument for Welker being better than Edelman or a more impactful individual player.

Edelman is bigger, faster, stronger, better short shuttle, better 3 cone, much better vert, much better broad jump. There's literally no physical attribute Welker has over Edleman.

As for impact? Welker never won anything. Edelman has made some of the biggest individual plays in team history

Signature receiver? In 2 more years Edelman will likely have caught more regular season balls from Tom Brady than Welker did (assuming 80 catches per season) and already has more post-season catches.

Funny to me that for years Patriots fans used to rag on Peyton Manning for putting up essentially meaningless but gaudy regular season stats and choking miserably in the playoffs. Brady's less impressive, but still really good, stats were hailed as better/more impactful/more valuable. Now when we're considering Welker to Edelman, Welker is romanticized as being a better player simply because he put up bigger numbers on mostly worse teams (2007 being the exception).

Welker was a really productive player and a really good player. I'm not trying to suggest otherwise. But 20 years from now when people think "Tom Brady's go to guy" they will think Moss (because of 2007 dominance), Edelman (for post season dominance) or Gronkowski (because he really is Brady's binky and, well, he's Gronk).

Like it or not, Welker played on two Super Bowl losers and two of the worst Belichick teams (2008 and 2009) along with the Belichick team that choked the hardest in the playoffs (2010). When Brady and Belichick are long gone, people will forget about a lot of the 2005-2013 players (other than Moss, probably). Other than the ruined 2007 season, that was the worst stretch in this era (which yes, is obviously a very privileged way to look at things, but it's true - in an era of dominance and excellence, those years will be the "dark period" as ridiculous as that sounds). There will be nothing memorable about Wes Welker other than his drop in SB46 to the average person and future fans, who didn't watch him, will only know him for blowing a Super Bowl.

Not trying to needlessly bash the guy, but I think people vastly overrate his impact to the franchise and his legacy with the team.

Lastly - Welker was with the team 6 years. Edelman is on his 8th season and while he only has 4 years of being a top WR on the team, he had a significant impact as a punt returner for 3 years before he became the #1 WR. That's 7 years of being an impact player on the team.
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lancerman


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Welsh Patriot wrote:
Am I correct in saying Welker was the better player but Edelman will always be remembered as the better Patriot. 2 Super Bowls - first one he threw for a touchdown to get there and caught the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. Second one he had 'the catch'.

Based on that Edelman will always be remembered as the better Patriot.

Anyone debate that he was better than Welker in general?


In general terms yes. Welker was a better version of Edelman. Definitly a more impactful individual player. He's probably the one Patriot of the Brady era who didn't get a ring that really deserved one with Mankins being the other. It's unfortunate that all the great things he did and probably being the signature receiver in Brady's career won't be remembered how it should be or in the proper context because of that dropped pass and then going to a rival team.

Edelman played very similar. A little less explosive and productive. But he has the same level of chemistry with Brady. Just not as athletic.

But Edelman will go down as the more important Patriot. He had big moments when it mattered most. And honestly that catch guaranteed him NFL immortality.


Would love to hear the argument for Welker being better than Edelman or a more impactful individual player.

Edelman is bigger, faster, stronger, better short shuttle, better 3 cone, much better vert, much better broad jump. There's literally no physical attribute Welker has over Edleman.

As for impact? Welker never won anything. Edelman has made some of the biggest individual plays in team history

Signature receiver? In 2 more years Edelman will likely have caught more regular season balls from Tom Brady than Welker did (assuming 80 catches per season) and already has more post-season catches.

Funny to me that for years Patriots fans used to rag on Peyton Manning for putting up essentially meaningless but gaudy regular season stats and choking miserably in the playoffs. Brady's less impressive, but still really good, stats were hailed as better/more impactful/more valuable. Now when we're considering Welker to Edelman, Welker is romanticized as being a better player simply because he put up bigger numbers on mostly worse teams (2007 being the exception).

Welker was a really productive player and a really good player. I'm not trying to suggest otherwise. But 20 years from now when people think "Tom Brady's go to guy" they will think Moss (because of 2007 dominance), Edelman (for post season dominance) or Gronkowski (because he really is Brady's binky and, well, he's Gronk).

Like it or not, Welker played on two Super Bowl losers and two of the worst Belichick teams (2008 and 2009) along with the Belichick team that choked the hardest in the playoffs (2010). When Brady and Belichick are long gone, people will forget about a lot of the 2005-2013 players (other than Moss, probably). Other than the ruined 2007 season, that was the worst stretch in this era (which yes, is obviously a very privileged way to look at things, but it's true - in an era of dominance and excellence, those years will be the "dark period" as ridiculous as that sounds). There will be nothing memorable about Wes Welker other than his drop in SB46 to the average person and future fans, who didn't watch him, will only know him for blowing a Super Bowl.

Not trying to needlessly bash the guy, but I think people vastly overrate his impact to the franchise and his legacy with the team.

Lastly - Welker was with the team 6 years. Edelman is on his 8th season and while he only has 4 years of being a top WR on the team, he had a significant impact as a punt returner for 3 years before he became the #1 WR. That's 7 years of being an impact player on the team.


What do you mean you'd love to hear the argument that Welker was a better player? It's not even close.

-With the Patriots, Welker had more than 110 receptions every year except when he missed time in 2010. His peak was 123. Edelman only broke 100 once with 105, which was worse than every year by Welker except his peak year. And this caregory isn't even close tbh.

-Yards. Welker has 2 seasons over 1100 yards, 2 seasons over 1300 yards, and 1 season over 1500. Again 2010 was his worst year. Edelman had over 1100 yards once and only broke 1000 one other time. Once again Edelman's best year was worse than every Welker year but his worst in 2010.

-Welker averaged 11 yards during his career with the Patriots. His peak was 12.9 in 2011. Edelman averaged 10.6. I could be nice and not count his early years where he didn't get alot of starts play time but then I'd be taking away his peak year which was 12.3 (lower than Welker's peak). But if I start at 2013 he goes up to 10.8. And that's literally the most favorable statistical comparison.

-Touchdowns. Welkers best year was 9 yard TD year. He also has an 8 and 7. Edelman's best was 7. So half of Welker's career in NE he either put up as many or more than Edelman's best season.

- Welker has 5 Pro Bowls, 2 First Team All Pro's, 2 Second Team All Pro's, and he was the reception leader 3 years in a row for the league. Edelman none of those accolades. And all of Welker's came with the Patriots.

What's the argument that Edelman was a better player than Welker? It's not even close. It's not even like Welker only has better numbers. It's except for his worst year Welker beats Edelman's best year every season he played for us. It's not like Manning vs Brady where it leans towards Manning in stats but Brady has years that were flat out better and hold up to any of Peyton's best stuff.

Everything else I agree with you with on. Edelman will be remembered far better than Welker. That's why I said he probably was the signature receiver of Brady's career but won't be remembered in that context. Like you said it's going to take Edelman 10 seasons to get more receptions to do what Welker did in 6.

If Welker won a SB with the Patriots or at least didn't drop that pass. He'd be remembered alot more fondly. Even without that signature clutch catch. It's not Welker's fault he played on two of the worst Patriots teams... 2008 was almost entirely because they lost Brady. 2009 was because they unloaded so many crucial pieces of the team. Can you really tag Welker with that. You want to know where the 2009 team would have been if we got rid of Welker along with everyone else? Moss would have been doubled to hell all year and the Jets probably win the division quite comfortably.

And again I agree Welker had the misfortune of being the main receiver during the Patriots stretch of no rings. That and the drop will forever hurt his legacy. And that's my point. It has little to do with his overall performance. It has to do with what happened with the team and a singular bad play. And while he had great numbers he wasn't clutch and let us down in big moments.

I was actually going to reply to another post earlier and say that Edelman, Moss, Hightower, Butler, Wilfork Chung, McCourty, Slater and Gronk all belong in the Hall of Fame before Welker.

But Welker was probably the best longterm receiver this franchise had in the Brady era from a talent perspective and his chemistry with Brady was insane. Julian probably matches that now. And Edelman has been more clutch in the playoffs and he has all the signature moments from the TD pass in the Ravens game, the game winning TD in Super Bowl XLIX, and one of the greatest catches ever in the Super Bowl this year. On top of that, I do think going to the Broncos and buddying up with a rival did more to hurt his legacy here. It was a Johnny Damon or Ray Allen moment without the rings.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Production doesn't equal talent. Tell me what Welker did better than Edelman as a WR. Don't say he had more catches, yards etc.

Whar did he actually do at a higher level? I would posit that if you put 2014-2016 Edelman on those 2007-2012 teams, Edelman's stats would match or eclipse Welker's. For half of Welker's seasons, he was the only trusted WR on the roster and was force fed the ball for lack of other options and a lack of a good running back.

Stats mean very little to me when determining how good a player is and was.
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Dan_Bali


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WR JULIAN EDELMAN had eight catches for 118 yards & TD in AFC CG.

Ranks 7th in NFL postseason history with 84 catches.

In past 9 playoff games, has 75 catches (8.3 per game) for 862 rec. yards (95.8 per game) & 3 TDs.

Had 9 catches for 109 yards & TD in SB XLIX.

Is franchise postseason leader with 84 catches & 937 rec. yards.

Has 3 seasons with 90+ catches, 2nd most in team history
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lancerman


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Production doesn't equal talent. Tell me what Welker did better than Edelman as a WR. Don't say he had more catches, yards etc.

Whar did he actually do at a higher level? I would posit that if you put 2014-2016 Edelman on those 2007-2012 teams, Edelman's stats would match or eclipse Welker's. For half of Welker's seasons, he was the only trusted WR on the roster and was force fed the ball for lack of other options and a lack of a good running back.

Stats mean very little to me when determining how good a player is and was.


Okay then watch Welker highlights vs Edelman highlights. Welker is like Edelman on steroids. Dude caught the ball and only went north or south. Always killed teams in getting a few extra yards after the catch. More explosive. He had the best chemistry with Brady of any Patriots receiver aside from maybe Moss in 07.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lancerman wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Production doesn't equal talent. Tell me what Welker did better than Edelman as a WR. Don't say he had more catches, yards etc.

Whar did he actually do at a higher level? I would posit that if you put 2014-2016 Edelman on those 2007-2012 teams, Edelman's stats would match or eclipse Welker's. For half of Welker's seasons, he was the only trusted WR on the roster and was force fed the ball for lack of other options and a lack of a good running back.

Stats mean very little to me when determining how good a player is and was.


Okay then watch Welker highlights vs Edelman highlights. Welker is like Edelman on steroids. Dude caught the ball and only went north or south. Always killed teams in getting a few extra yards after the catch. More explosive. He had the best chemistry with Brady of any Patriots receiver aside from maybe Moss in 07.


I don't need to see the highlight, I've watched every catch each guy has had (most of them multiple times and on All 22)

You haven't answered my basic question though - what did Welker do better than Edelman?

Deep routes - Edelman
Intermediate out/sideline routes - Edelman
Seam routes - Edelman
Short inside routes - Welker
Short out routes - push
Screen - push
Hands - Edelman
YAC - push
Toughness - Edelman
Ball security - Welker
ST value - Edelman
Misc value - Edelman (jet sweeps, gadget plays)
Jump balls or high throws - Edelman
Catch radius - Edelman
Catches in traffic - push
"Clutchness" - Edelman
Strength - Edelman
Vs press - Edelman
Vs zone - push

Again, not trying to take away from the numbers Welker put up but you haven't exactly laid a case for Edelman not to be able to put up similar numbers had he been on those teams at this point of his development.
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lancerman


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Production doesn't equal talent. Tell me what Welker did better than Edelman as a WR. Don't say he had more catches, yards etc.

Whar did he actually do at a higher level? I would posit that if you put 2014-2016 Edelman on those 2007-2012 teams, Edelman's stats would match or eclipse Welker's. For half of Welker's seasons, he was the only trusted WR on the roster and was force fed the ball for lack of other options and a lack of a good running back.

Stats mean very little to me when determining how good a player is and was.


Okay then watch Welker highlights vs Edelman highlights. Welker is like Edelman on steroids. Dude caught the ball and only went north or south. Always killed teams in getting a few extra yards after the catch. More explosive. He had the best chemistry with Brady of any Patriots receiver aside from maybe Moss in 07.


I don't need to see the highlight, I've watched every catch each guy has had (most of them multiple times and on All 22)

You haven't answered my basic question though - what did Welker do better than Edelman?

Deep routes - Edelman
Intermediate out/sideline routes - Edelman
Seam routes - Edelman
Short inside routes - Welker
Short out routes - push
Screen - push
Hands - Edelman
YAC - push
Toughness - Edelman
Ball security - Welker
ST value - Edelman
Misc value - Edelman (jet sweeps, gadget plays)
Jump balls or high throws - Edelman
Catch radius - Edelman
Catches in traffic - push
"Clutchness" - Edelman
Strength - Edelman
Vs press - Edelman
Vs zone - push

Again, not trying to take away from the numbers Welker put up but you haven't exactly laid a case for Edelman not to be able to put up similar numbers had he been on those teams at this point of his development.


I would give Welker hands. Yeah he dropped THAT pass. But we've seen Edelman have some inconsistency this year and a bit of last. When he's on he's on. But I personally think Welker overall was way more automatic in more situations.

Toughness, Welker was pretty tough. I think you are selling him short there.

Definitly would give Welker YAC. He routinely made something out of nothing.

Strength. Idk what to base that on. Edelman is bigger.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lancerman wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Production doesn't equal talent. Tell me what Welker did better than Edelman as a WR. Don't say he had more catches, yards etc.

Whar did he actually do at a higher level? I would posit that if you put 2014-2016 Edelman on those 2007-2012 teams, Edelman's stats would match or eclipse Welker's. For half of Welker's seasons, he was the only trusted WR on the roster and was force fed the ball for lack of other options and a lack of a good running back.

Stats mean very little to me when determining how good a player is and was.


Okay then watch Welker highlights vs Edelman highlights. Welker is like Edelman on steroids. Dude caught the ball and only went north or south. Always killed teams in getting a few extra yards after the catch. More explosive. He had the best chemistry with Brady of any Patriots receiver aside from maybe Moss in 07.


I don't need to see the highlight, I've watched every catch each guy has had (most of them multiple times and on All 22)

You haven't answered my basic question though - what did Welker do better than Edelman?

Deep routes - Edelman
Intermediate out/sideline routes - Edelman
Seam routes - Edelman
Short inside routes - Welker
Short out routes - push
Screen - push
Hands - Edelman
YAC - push
Toughness - Edelman
Ball security - Welker
ST value - Edelman
Misc value - Edelman (jet sweeps, gadget plays)
Jump balls or high throws - Edelman
Catch radius - Edelman
Catches in traffic - push
"Clutchness" - Edelman
Strength - Edelman
Vs press - Edelman
Vs zone - push

Again, not trying to take away from the numbers Welker put up but you haven't exactly laid a case for Edelman not to be able to put up similar numbers had he been on those teams at this point of his development.


I would give Welker hands. Yeah he dropped THAT pass. But we've seen Edelman have some inconsistency this year and a bit of last. When he's on he's on. But I personally think Welker overall was way more automatic in more situations.

Toughness, Welker was pretty tough. I think you are selling him short there.

Definitly would give Welker YAC. He routinely made something out of nothing.

Strength. Idk what to base that on. Edelman is bigger.


Regarding hands and toughess - if you had to have one catch made over the middle in the waning moments of a Super Bowl, do you want that pass going to Welker or Edelman? We've seen Welker choke in the Super Bowl and drop a couple of passes in the AFCCG. We know Edelman can make the key catches, despite having occasional drops. People forget that Welker dropped a lot of passes too. Granted, he got thrown a lot of passes, but he dropped 10-15% of "catchable passes" per PFF (take PFF with appropriate grains of salt). People forget all the regular season drops Welker had because it's been 5 seasons since he was in New England and Edelman's are fresher. I'd say Edelman drops a few more than Welker because he gets his hands on a few more (i.e. he fails to bring in some tough catches which would be uncatchable if thrown to Welker). At best, it's a push in terms of overall hands. In terms of "clutch hands" or however you want to call it, Edelman is significantly higher than Welker who came up small on multiple occasions.

Strength - Just look at the way they use their bodies against tight coverage, how they get off the line against press etc. Part of the reason that the Welker-era Patriots struggled was that good press CB's completely neutralized him at times. Edelman gets shut down at times too, but not quite as much. Welker had to rely entirely on his technical work with his feet coming off the snap. Edelman has a little bit more size and strength to get separation, along with very good feet (not as good as Welker though). In contested situations, Edelman is clearly stronger and more physical and more able to secure close plays.


Toughness - Welker was tough physically, and took some brutal shots. No doubt about it. But I think Edelman is one of the toughest guys in the past 15-20 years. It's not a slight to Welker to say Edelman is tougher, Edelman is borderline crazy and totally fearless. I've never seen him get alligator arms or slow up when going over the middle. He truly seems to love getting smacked by defenders

YAC - Welker averaged 5.02 YAC with the Patriots, Edelman has 5.42. Not sure I buy, at all, that Welker was better there. He was better at sneaking through small spaces, true. Edelman is the better open field runner, faster, more explosive and better and stop/start/change of direction.

I'm not trying to change your mind here, you clearly like Welker more. I just think Welker is one of those guys who will get forgotten over time, other than his playoff chokes. He was a good player and a very productive player. But his stats and the degree to which he was a focal part of the offense make people remember him as being more talented than he actually was. He's a lot better than the "system WR" that non-Pats fans make him out to be. But he's not a top 5 WR in Pats history.
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m haynes


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Welsh Patriot wrote:
Am I correct in saying Welker was the better player but Edelman will always be remembered as the better Patriot. 2 Super Bowls - first one he threw for a touchdown to get there and caught the winning touchdown in the Super Bowl. Second one he had 'the catch'.

Based on that Edelman will always be remembered as the better Patriot.

Anyone debate that he was better than Welker in general?


In general terms yes. Welker was a better version of Edelman. Definitly a more impactful individual player. He's probably the one Patriot of the Brady era who didn't get a ring that really deserved one with Mankins being the other. It's unfortunate that all the great things he did and probably being the signature receiver in Brady's career won't be remembered how it should be or in the proper context because of that dropped pass and then going to a rival team.

Edelman played very similar. A little less explosive and productive. But he has the same level of chemistry with Brady. Just not as athletic.

But Edelman will go down as the more important Patriot. He had big moments when it mattered most. And honestly that catch guaranteed him NFL immortality.


Would love to hear the argument for Welker being better than Edelman or a more impactful individual player.

Edelman is bigger, faster, stronger, better short shuttle, better 3 cone, much better vert, much better broad jump. There's literally no physical attribute Welker has over Edleman.

As for impact? Welker never won anything. Edelman has made some of the biggest individual plays in team history

Signature receiver? In 2 more years Edelman will likely have caught more regular season balls from Tom Brady than Welker did (assuming 80 catches per season) and already has more post-season catches.

Funny to me that for years Patriots fans used to rag on Peyton Manning for putting up essentially meaningless but gaudy regular season stats and choking miserably in the playoffs. Brady's less impressive, but still really good, stats were hailed as better/more impactful/more valuable. Now when we're considering Welker to Edelman, Welker is romanticized as being a better player simply because he put up bigger numbers on mostly worse teams (2007 being the exception).

Welker was a really productive player and a really good player. I'm not trying to suggest otherwise. But 20 years from now when people think "Tom Brady's go to guy" they will think Moss (because of 2007 dominance), Edelman (for post season dominance) or Gronkowski (because he really is Brady's binky and, well, he's Gronk).

Like it or not, Welker played on two Super Bowl losers and two of the worst Belichick teams (2008 and 2009) along with the Belichick team that choked the hardest in the playoffs (2010). When Brady and Belichick are long gone, people will forget about a lot of the 2005-2013 players (other than Moss, probably). Other than the ruined 2007 season, that was the worst stretch in this era (which yes, is obviously a very privileged way to look at things, but it's true - in an era of dominance and excellence, those years will be the "dark period" as ridiculous as that sounds). There will be nothing memorable about Wes Welker other than his drop in SB46 to the average person and future fans, who didn't watch him, will only know him for blowing a Super Bowl.

Not trying to needlessly bash the guy, but I think people vastly overrate his impact to the franchise and his legacy with the team.

Lastly - Welker was with the team 6 years. Edelman is on his 8th season and while he only has 4 years of being a top WR on the team, he had a significant impact as a punt returner for 3 years before he became the #1 WR. That's 7 years of being an impact player on the team.
Good post. JE had the break away ability that Welker didn't have. Welker played with Randy Moss coverage shifted to RM.

PS IMO JE was the best at the position however Troy was the most valuable player over the other two. My favorite was the strip in SD. The most over look play in Pats history. On that play you are, crying like a baby, within moments your head goes through the ceiling sceamin with joy. He ripped a sure defeat, right from his hands. Amazing, talking about playing 60 minutes.
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poorbytehshore


Joined: 03 Nov 2009
Posts: 3743
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's my favourite player in the NFL, outside of Tommy.
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