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Khalil Mack wins Defensive Player of the Year
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NightTrainLane


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
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Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BayRaider wrote:
I like option 3. Let him play out his fourth year and then exercise his fifth year option while likely coming to a deal before that fifth year actually starts.

We need to focus on Carr before Mack and we are probably gonna give Carr an extension this off season.


I think the structure of the deal means a lot. If Carr does get a Luck like deal this year and his cap hit is 18mil, dropping our cap space to 34mil, then we use 6mil on our draft picks and then our 10-14mil signing free agents (our own and others), that would leave 14 mil to extend Mack.

Depends on how Reggie wants to handle the offseason. If we go after 2-3 decent FAs then we won't have the room to sign Mack this year. But if we stay pretty quiet and only resign our own guys plus 1-2 FAs then we have room.
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Nightmare


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaliforniaKid7 wrote:
Scary thing is we have to pay that


Good problem to have, though.

Well deserved for #52, and as some have already said, his potential is scary as he's not even reached his peak yet. Hopefully we'll be able to surround him with talent sooner rather than later to fully maximize his potential. There are a few pieces there on defense, but it really needs a lot of work, which I guess also makes his success even more noteworthy.
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drfrey13


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I have failed to realize before now is that we are a cash strapped team. Signing bonuses are paid upfront and should be a very large portion of the two deals. Do you think we have an extra hundred million to give out this off-season especially with the stadium and and investors is in a state flux. We are suppose to get a nice check from the league this year, everyone is, but that money might already be spoken for. The front office already has a plan. This statement is for us to think about only.

I personally sign the deals as soon as possible because his cost wil only increase in time without injuries. We can get Carr at a discounted rate right now. If he wins in the playoffs next year his value skyrockets.
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NightTrainLane


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

drfrey13 wrote:
One thing I have failed to realize before now is that we are a cash strapped team. Signing bonuses are paid upfront and should be a very large portion of the two deals. Do you think we have an extra hundred million to give out this off-season especially with the stadium and and investors is in a state flux. We are suppose to get a nice check from the league this year, everyone is, but that money might already be spoken for. The front office already has a plan. This statement is for us to think about only.

I personally sign the deals as soon as possible because his cost wil only increase in time without injuries. We can get Carr at a discounted rate right now. If he wins in the playoffs next year his value skyrockets.


I totally agree Frey. I say we sign them both this year to smart deals. Just how I see this org handling it. Both guys are committed to the team. Why wait especially if we can get them cheaper now and still pay their value.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're in position to have Mack for the next 2 years for 16M in cash (not the cap hit). Von Miller got 19M/Year. Even if there's some inflation, we won't save anything by signing Mack now.
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drfrey13


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
We're in position to have Mack for the next 2 years for 16M in cash (not the cap hit). Von Miller got 19M/Year. Even if there's some inflation, we won't save anything by signing Mack now.


There are risks to both ways and reasons for each path. In 2 years his average salary could increase $2-5 million a year. Everyone around here agrees that he is still learning and getting better every year. Imagine his cost if he plays better next year and we make a deep playoff run which we should have done this year. Right now you can argue in negotiations that yes you are a great player but we still need to add pieces around you to win a championship. Also we all know that he is going to become the highest paid defensive player in the league. He will want the prestige and that is were his team will start negotiations.

If we wait He will get $16 over the next 2 years and say 6yr $126 million contract (I believe this to be on the low end). That is $142 over 8 years for $17.75 million average. If we extend him now we sign him to a six year extension for $117 million. So that would be 7 yr $123 million for a yearly average of $17.5. This is a small savings but in the years of the new contract we would be paying $21 million per year and the extension would still be $17.5 million per year. I also believe he will be more likely to to sign just over Von Miller because this also increases his value in his next contract and adds security since he will not have to worry about injury. Players tend to take a couple million less per year when they sign extensions instead of waiting till they hit the market. On the flip side we can also sign Carr this year and front load his contract so that when we do resign Mack Carr's cap hit will make up the difference.

Wish I could sit in on some of the front office meetings to find out what they are thinking.
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G


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Option #4 I fully explain the situation to both Carr and Mack. They will be Raiders and were willing to Franchise and 5th year option. However we'd like to sign both now to let everyone feel secure and happy. So long-term deals that average the years and savings into 5th year and franchising options. I tell them these offers are here all season to sign if you want...
OR
Carr franchises next season and Mack is 5th year opt'd and then we will do deals. I think both might sign team friendly that means less per season now with security and knowing they will be taken care of long-term.
I'd not sign any top notch FA's and wait for cuts and discounted FA's that want to be a part of us on the rise.
I'd like to offer Gabe Jackson a decent deal as it gives us more flexibility with Osemele, who I'd move to RT depending on FA's or draft.
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BayRaider


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like Option 4 quite a bit. Our best chance to win a Super Bowl is while they are on their rookie deals, at least one of them.
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NightTrainLane


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
We're in position to have Mack for the next 2 years for 16M in cash (not the cap hit). Von Miller got 19M/Year. Even if there's some inflation, we won't save anything by signing Mack now.


Atleast check your facts. We will save something...Von's first yr cap hit is 11.5mil. Then the large cap hits start in 2017. Would be the same for us if we followed that blueprint which I think we would as that is the comp contract at this time.
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NightTrainLane


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Option #4 I fully explain the situation to both Carr and Mack. They will be Raiders and were willing to Franchise and 5th year option. However we'd like to sign both now to let everyone feel secure and happy. So long-term deals that average the years and savings into 5th year and franchising options. I tell them these offers are here all season to sign if you want...
OR
Carr franchises next season and Mack is 5th year opt'd and then we will do deals. I think both might sign team friendly that means less per season now with security and knowing they will be taken care of long-term.
I'd not sign any top notch FA's and wait for cuts and discounted FA's that want to be a part of us on the rise.
I'd like to offer Gabe Jackson a decent deal as it gives us more flexibility with Osemele, who I'd move to RT depending on FA's or draft.


So option #4 is let the player decide out of option #1-3.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drfrey13 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
We're in position to have Mack for the next 2 years for 16M in cash (not the cap hit). Von Miller got 19M/Year. Even if there's some inflation, we won't save anything by signing Mack now.


There are risks to both ways and reasons for each path. In 2 years his average salary could increase $2-5 million a year. Everyone around here agrees that he is still learning and getting better every year. Imagine his cost if he plays better next year and we make a deep playoff run which we should have done this year. Right now you can argue in negotiations that yes you are a great player but we still need to add pieces around you to win a championship. Also we all know that he is going to become the highest paid defensive player in the league. He will want the prestige and that is were his team will start negotiations.

If we wait He will get $16 over the next 2 years and say 6yr $126 million contract (I believe this to be on the low end). That is $142 over 8 years for $17.75 million average. If we extend him now we sign him to a six year extension for $117 million. So that would be 7 yr $123 million for a yearly average of $17.5. This is a small savings but in the years of the new contract we would be paying $21 million per year and the extension would still be $17.5 million per year. I also believe he will be more likely to to sign just over Von Miller because this also increases his value in his next contract and adds security since he will not have to worry about injury. Players tend to take a couple million less per year when they sign extensions instead of waiting till they hit the market. On the flip side we can also sign Carr this year and front load his contract so that when we do resign Mack Carr's cap hit will make up the difference.

Wish I could sit in on some of the front office meetings to find out what they are thinking.


I'm not sure he'd get 2M/year if he's signed 2 years from now. Who's about to get signed who will set a league high for defenders until then?
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NightTrainLane


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Location: On the wall defending Reggie from all blasphemous heretics!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drfrey13 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
We're in position to have Mack for the next 2 years for 16M in cash (not the cap hit). Von Miller got 19M/Year. Even if there's some inflation, we won't save anything by signing Mack now.


There are risks to both ways and reasons for each path. In 2 years his average salary could increase $2-5 million a year. Everyone around here agrees that he is still learning and getting better every year. Imagine his cost if he plays better next year and we make a deep playoff run which we should have done this year. Right now you can argue in negotiations that yes you are a great player but we still need to add pieces around you to win a championship. Also we all know that he is going to become the highest paid defensive player in the league. He will want the prestige and that is were his team will start negotiations.

If we wait He will get $16 over the next 2 years and say 6yr $126 million contract (I believe this to be on the low end). That is $142 over 8 years for $17.75 million average. If we extend him now we sign him to a six year extension for $117 million. So that would be 7 yr $123 million for a yearly average of $17.5. This is a small savings but in the years of the new contract we would be paying $21 million per year and the extension would still be $17.5 million per year. I also believe he will be more likely to to sign just over Von Miller because this also increases his value in his next contract and adds security since he will not have to worry about injury. Players tend to take a couple million less per year when they sign extensions instead of waiting till they hit the market. On the flip side we can also sign Carr this year and front load his contract so that when we do resign Mack Carr's cap hit will make up the difference.

Wish I could sit in on some of the front office meetings to find out what they are thinking.


Yup, just makes sense for both sides to get it done sooner than later. They are gonna get huge money. They wanna be here. We can pay them. And they would like the money, security and ability to hit FA and another contract before their 30. Just makes sense.
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NightTrainLane


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oakdb36 wrote:
drfrey13 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
We're in position to have Mack for the next 2 years for 16M in cash (not the cap hit). Von Miller got 19M/Year. Even if there's some inflation, we won't save anything by signing Mack now.


There are risks to both ways and reasons for each path. In 2 years his average salary could increase $2-5 million a year. Everyone around here agrees that he is still learning and getting better every year. Imagine his cost if he plays better next year and we make a deep playoff run which we should have done this year. Right now you can argue in negotiations that yes you are a great player but we still need to add pieces around you to win a championship. Also we all know that he is going to become the highest paid defensive player in the league. He will want the prestige and that is were his team will start negotiations.

If we wait He will get $16 over the next 2 years and say 6yr $126 million contract (I believe this to be on the low end). That is $142 over 8 years for $17.75 million average. If we extend him now we sign him to a six year extension for $117 million. So that would be 7 yr $123 million for a yearly average of $17.5. This is a small savings but in the years of the new contract we would be paying $21 million per year and the extension would still be $17.5 million per year. I also believe he will be more likely to to sign just over Von Miller because this also increases his value in his next contract and adds security since he will not have to worry about injury. Players tend to take a couple million less per year when they sign extensions instead of waiting till they hit the market. On the flip side we can also sign Carr this year and front load his contract so that when we do resign Mack Carr's cap hit will make up the difference.

Wish I could sit in on some of the front office meetings to find out what they are thinking.


I'm not sure he'd get 2M/year if he's signed 2 years from now. Who's about to get signed who will set a league high for defenders until then?


Aaron Donald realistically and Kwann Short on an overpay.
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BayRaider


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
G wrote:
Option #4 I fully explain the situation to both Carr and Mack. They will be Raiders and were willing to Franchise and 5th year option. However we'd like to sign both now to let everyone feel secure and happy. So long-term deals that average the years and savings into 5th year and franchising options. I tell them these offers are here all season to sign if you want...
OR
Carr franchises next season and Mack is 5th year opt'd and then we will do deals. I think both might sign team friendly that means less per season now with security and knowing they will be taken care of long-term.
I'd not sign any top notch FA's and wait for cuts and discounted FA's that want to be a part of us on the rise.
I'd like to offer Gabe Jackson a decent deal as it gives us more flexibility with Osemele, who I'd move to RT depending on FA's or draft.


So option #4 is let the player decide out of option #1-3.


No, option 4 is pay them but keep their rookie deals on the contract the first year or when they expire. Best time to win a SB is before you pay your stars. 2013 Seahawks for example.
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attack_in_s/b


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drfrey13 wrote:
oakdb36 wrote:
We're in position to have Mack for the next 2 years for 16M in cash (not the cap hit). Von Miller got 19M/Year. Even if there's some inflation, we won't save anything by signing Mack now.


There are risks to both ways and reasons for each path. In 2 years his average salary could increase $2-5 million a year. Everyone around here agrees that he is still learning and getting better every year. Imagine his cost if he plays better next year and we make a deep playoff run which we should have done this year. Right now you can argue in negotiations that yes you are a great player but we still need to add pieces around you to win a championship. Also we all know that he is going to become the highest paid defensive player in the league. He will want the prestige and that is were his team will start negotiations.

If we wait He will get $16 over the next 2 years and say 6yr $126 million contract (I believe this to be on the low end). That is $142 over 8 years for $17.75 million average. If we extend him now we sign him to a six year extension for $117 million. So that would be 7 yr $123 million for a yearly average of $17.5. This is a small savings but in the years of the new contract we would be paying $21 million per year and the extension would still be $17.5 million per year. I also believe he will be more likely to to sign just over Von Miller because this also increases his value in his next contract and adds security since he will not have to worry about injury. Players tend to take a couple million less per year when they sign extensions instead of waiting till they hit the market. On the flip side we can also sign Carr this year and front load his contract so that when we do resign Mack Carr's cap hit will make up the difference.

Wish I could sit in on some of the front office meetings to find out what they are thinking.


I think with Mack the whole 'saving money by signing him year ___ ' is a moot point - he's a 25 year old former 5th overall pick that just won defensive MVP.... he's getting a monster deal either way with hope that we'll get a loyalty discount and be able to structure it to be more team friendly. hes going to get a huge contract and make our financial situation a little more complicated and that's inevitable.

I'm not worried about when we sign him or his value going up or down. He'll get something b/w Houston and miller deals regardless - though I don't think he'll be the highest paid. On the same point giving him a new deal would be an extension on his rookie deal therefor not effect his salary this year outside of a signing bonus we could opt to give him upfront. That option would mean forgoing a 5th year rookie extension which by rule is the average of the top 5 contracts at that position.... so probably not much cheaper than the long term deal he'll get.

As you said, there's really not a huge difference. And I don't think there's much more Mack could do to get a bigger contract than what he's already going to get. He's already going to be one of the top 5 highest paid defensive players and at that point you've kinda maxed out what you'll get because it's all relative to market value. Everything is benchmarked to Von's deal and Mack is already there. From what we know of Mack, he's not suh or miller who both made it a high priority to be 'THE highest paid'

I imagine we try to get them both signed this off-season, probably try to give them a big chunk of their deals upfront this year while they're still on rookie contracts and lessen the cap burden later on.
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