Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

2017 Offseason thread 2: Shanny and Lynch
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 55, 56, 57 ... 71, 72, 73  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> San Francisco 49ers
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 45184
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

48 1/2ers wrote:
Quote:
The Ringer's Mike Lombardi reports the 49ers have "made it known" ILB Navorro Bowman is available for trade.

Lombardi seems to have a bit of a vendetta against the 49ers with all this garbage he keeps dropping. We must have fired his son from his offensive quality control position.


Why would he have a vendetta? That's dumb. He was right on the McDonald trade talks and was right about the Seahawks considering trading Sherman.

Now, the team denied this report while doing the opposite with the McDonald trade talks. Let's see how it plays out.
_________________

El ramster on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19319
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
48 1/2ers wrote:
Quote:
The Ringer's Mike Lombardi reports the 49ers have "made it known" ILB Navorro Bowman is available for trade.

Lombardi seems to have a bit of a vendetta against the 49ers with all this garbage he keeps dropping. We must have fired his son from his offensive quality control position.


Why would he have a vendetta? That's dumb. He was right on the McDonald trade talks and was right about the Seahawks considering trading Sherman.

Now, the team denied this report while doing the opposite with the McDonald trade talks. Let's see how it plays out.


Was thinking the same thing. The last two things i remember him reporting were both correct...not getting the throwing things against the wall or vendetta angle here. Honestly, the 49ers should see what is available out there. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. Doesn't mean you're under the obligation of making the move
_________________


Stupid NFL coaches and their need to reach for quarterbacks....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
48 1/2ers


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 3898
Location: Northern California
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
J-ALL-DAY wrote:
48 1/2ers wrote:
Quote:
The Ringer's Mike Lombardi reports the 49ers have "made it known" ILB Navorro Bowman is available for trade.

Lombardi seems to have a bit of a vendetta against the 49ers with all this garbage he keeps dropping. We must have fired his son from his offensive quality control position.


Why would he have a vendetta? That's dumb. He was right on the McDonald trade talks and was right about the Seahawks considering trading Sherman.

Now, the team denied this report while doing the opposite with the McDonald trade talks. Let's see how it plays out.


Was thinking the same thing. The last two things i remember him reporting were both correct...not getting the throwing things against the wall or vendetta angle here. Honestly, the 49ers should see what is available out there. Absolutely nothing wrong with it. Doesn't mean you're under the obligation of making the move

Fosters shoulder surgery not taking and the lack of interest in pick 2 aren't things I'd chalk up as him getting correct.

The vendetta would be in this new FO/head coach not retaining his son who was a member of the two previous staffs. (Not finding his name anymore so I'm not 100% sure what happened to jr) he's also a growing member of the media without the best track record for success, and with the way media works nowadays you only keep a job/get paid if you create controversy. Accuracy in what your reporting doesn't matter.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
J-ALL-DAY


Joined: 17 Oct 2007
Posts: 45184
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stop with this vendetta crap please. Fans get so defensive for no reason.

And it's yet to be determined if opposing teams are right on Foster's shoulder or not. Right now it seems like our medical staff is in the minority.
_________________

El ramster on the sig
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GANNDMK


Joined: 29 Mar 2007
Posts: 2449
PostPosted: Fri May 12, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lombardi's an idiot. If the Niners were shopping Bowman, or anyone else, it's not his business to broadcast it to the world. He did the same thing with McDonald, and Kyle had to tell McDonald not to worry. No other GM broadcasted our business. I hope Lynch gives Lombardi an earful next time they meet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
757-NINER


Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 1932
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/kyle-shanahan-id-rather-risk-getting-lesser-guy-guys/


I think Cohn is way off base here. The fact we went and got Foster when they saw he was in a draft freefall, which is why they were trying to trade up, proves that when they saw talent they coveted, they went in acquired it. I see nothing wrong with that.

As for his Bill Walsh theory, Walsh picked the lesser guys by trading back numerous times in drafts. Walsh/McVay were master of making gems out of players most didn't covet. But when Walsh saw talent he wanted(Rice in '85), he went and got it.

Foster is the bigger talent over King. Even though it will be a learning year for Witherspoon he could surprise ppl, like Robinson last year. Not to mention as Kyle said they are not one CB away. We are merely building the foundation for the future. His analogy makes some sense but is greatly flawed. I would say that some foundations may require a longer time to set if you are not using quick dry concrete.

“[But] not a huge difference in getting the other guys.”

In Shanahan’s mind King was better but the other two he mentioned were close enough that it wasn’t worth giving up picks for other players when the next best couple of choices weren’t that big of a drop off. That's excatly the kind of mainframe you want in building a roster. If he thought there was a huge difference between King and the next guy(s) they liked then I’m sure his attitude towards trading up would have been different. I discussed my preference for King over Witherspoon before the draft. I think most saw King as the more polished of the two and the one who could come in and start day one. I also understand that in the grand scheme of things, Foster was more highly viewed as a cornerstone player over King....and by a country mile. We didn't 'settle' for Witherspoon. We and got a guy that was in our top 3 on our board, at a position of need mind you, and was still able to address the need at a CB later in a deep and talented DB draft. That's the epitome of maximizing value on draft day while still upgrading your talent level.


Last edited by 757-NINER on Sat May 13, 2017 7:44 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19319
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GANNDMK wrote:
Lombardi's an idiot. If the Niners were shopping Bowman, or anyone else, it's not his business to broadcast it to the world. He did the same thing with McDonald, and Kyle had to tell McDonald not to worry. No other GM broadcasted our business. I hope Lynch gives Lombardi an earful next time they meet.


He's the press....it kinda is their job to do just that
_________________


Stupid NFL coaches and their need to reach for quarterbacks....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PapaShogun


Joined: 20 Jan 2014
Posts: 1492
Location: Macau
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As if the offseason wasn't already long enough.

We have clearly reached the middle of the desert.
_________________

- Five Time Super Bowl Champion San Francisco 49ers -
1981*1984*1988*1989*1994*
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 17044
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PapaShogun wrote:
As if the offseason wasn't already long enough.

We have clearly reached the middle of the desert.



I feel like the middle of the desert in some time in June. We still get some news, these days. Rookie signings. Many of the players still hang out around the facility. In june, that's when everybody usually leaves and go on random trips to Peru, or something. That's when there's truly nothing to say. There's only baseball in the sport world. It's the great void created in america by the conclusion of the hockey season (yeah, I'm kidding).
_________________


RudyZ's Power Rankings Power Ranking

1) RudyZ's Power Rankings Power Ranking
2) y2's pie Power Rankings (3.1416 rules!)
3) N4L's Poster Power Rankings
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 19726
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

757-NINER wrote:


In Shanahan’s mind King was better but the other two he mentioned were close enough that it wasn’t worth giving up picks for other players when the next best couple of choices weren’t that big of a drop off. That's excatly the kind of mainframe you want in building a roster.


I completely agree with what Shanahan said. The key point is that your don't "know", with certainty that is, which of two guys you have rated relatively close will turn out to be the better player. Now if you're a Super Bowl contender trying to fill one key hole on your team, then go ahead and take the guy you "think" is best. But if you're in rebuilding mode then by all means don't give up extra picks to take a guy that might not turn out better anyway.

This is the very issue I complained about last year when Baalke gave up extra picks to take Garnett when most everyone out there had two other guys rated the same, and many even had them higher. In a case like that it is pure arrogance to give up extra picks to get "your guy". Take the guy that's there when you pick, and maybe the guy you like best will still be there, and use those extra picks to take another shot at someone to help the team.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 17044
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
757-NINER wrote:


In Shanahan’s mind King was better but the other two he mentioned were close enough that it wasn’t worth giving up picks for other players when the next best couple of choices weren’t that big of a drop off. That's excatly the kind of mainframe you want in building a roster.


I completely agree with what Shanahan said. The key point is that your don't "know", with certainty that is, which of two guys you have rated relatively close will turn out to be the better player. Now if you're a Super Bowl contender trying to fill one key hole on your team, then go ahead and take the guy you "think" is best. But if you're in rebuilding mode then by all means don't give up extra picks to take a guy that might not turn out better anyway.

This is the very issue I complained about last year when Baalke gave up extra picks to take Garnett when most everyone out there had two other guys rated the same, and many even had them higher. In a case like that it is pure arrogance to give up extra picks to get "your guy". Take the guy that's there when you pick, and maybe the guy you like best will still be there, and use those extra picks to take another shot at someone to help the team.



The talent grade is only a part of the equation, and the part we focus the most on, because we have eyes and we can watch gametape. But among the reasons why a GM will choose to trade up to get their guy is the personality. They simply like one guy better. Not the talent, the guy himself. Maybe that's why Baalke wanted Garnett over two other similarly graded guys. And maybe that's why Lynch had Foster as his #3 prospect on the board. Sure, he has character concerns and can make poor decisions in indianapolis hospital hallways. But maybe Lynch saw his passion for the game and his attitude on the field, and figured that separated him from the other ILBs taken in the first round this year. Maybe he sees a future team leader in him, and he didn't see it in other guys. We have a team that needs leadership real bad since we lost Willis, Justin and Gore in the same offseason. We need it in every unit. We didn't have a leading QB last year (maybe Hoyer shows some more leadership, and Beat Hard seems to have some potential to be a leader, if he can become an effective QB). Staley is a good player, but he has always been more of a follower than a leader. He's vocal, in an outgoing way, but not in a leadership-exuding way. Maybe we miss Jonathan Goodwin's veteran presence (moreso than his play). Center is such a key position, you can't have just a plug in there. You need a leader. We had a leader in the receiving corp in Boldin, and he certainly did seem to make a huge difference. We used to have a leader in the backfield. A guy that not only led his unit, but led his entire team by example. We used to have Justin Smith. Enough said. We used to have Willis. Enough said. Whitner, while not always the best player, was a pretty good leader, and Carlos Rogers also brought a good presence. We miss a whole lot of leadership on this team. So, when I see Lynch take one guy over another, I can't help but wonder whether he's addressing the leadership issue at the same time as the lack of talent on this team.

I've said it for a while, this team isn't as bare of talent as most people think. We're often called the least talented roster in the league. But add just a few key pieces and start winning game, and some of the guys who previously were scrubs will suddenly become "hidden gems". This is what happened in 2011. We added a couple of key free agents, we added a stud pass rusher, and all of sudden, a lackluster roster turned into "one of the deepest roster in the league, poised for a long championship run". Just imagine what a stud pass rusher and a good QB could do to this team. And a #1 WR.

I think we're replenishing the leadership core of this team. We have good core guys. DeFo, Thomas, Foster. Garçon could be a steady presence. This team isn't that far off.
_________________


RudyZ's Power Rankings Power Ranking

1) RudyZ's Power Rankings Power Ranking
2) y2's pie Power Rankings (3.1416 rules!)
3) N4L's Poster Power Rankings
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
48 1/2ers


Joined: 01 Aug 2011
Posts: 3898
Location: Northern California
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
GANNDMK wrote:
Lombardi's an idiot. If the Niners were shopping Bowman, or anyone else, it's not his business to broadcast it to the world. He did the same thing with McDonald, and Kyle had to tell McDonald not to worry. No other GM broadcasted our business. I hope Lynch gives Lombardi an earful next time they meet.


He's the press....it kinda is their job to do just that

I think he more just took advantage of the narrative that the niners are in complete rebuild mode so they must be trying to trade one of their talented veteran players. Maybe he really did hear it from some source but theres no reason I'd ever believe we made Bow available unless I hear it from someone involved like we did with McDonald.

I like Lombardi's insight to a lot of the GM process and his input during the season is different than the typical jargon but he's still just a gasbag like the rest of them.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 17044
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

48 1/2ers wrote:
Forge wrote:
GANNDMK wrote:
Lombardi's an idiot. If the Niners were shopping Bowman, or anyone else, it's not his business to broadcast it to the world. He did the same thing with McDonald, and Kyle had to tell McDonald not to worry. No other GM broadcasted our business. I hope Lynch gives Lombardi an earful next time they meet.


He's the press....it kinda is their job to do just that

I think he more just took advantage of the narrative that the niners are in complete rebuild mode so they must be trying to trade one of their talented veteran players. Maybe he really did hear it from some source but theres no reason I'd ever believe we made Bow available unless I hear it from someone involved like we did with McDonald.

I like Lombardi's insight to a lot of the GM process and his input during the season is different than the typical jargon but he's still just a gasbag like the rest of them.



Technically, everybody should be available, for the right price. It's not like we have Tom Brady on the roster. There's no true untouchable. So I do not think we're actively shopping Bowman, unless there's something we don't know about his health. Is he available? Sure. Would we get anything interesting in return? Doubt it.
_________________


RudyZ's Power Rankings Power Ranking

1) RudyZ's Power Rankings Power Ranking
2) y2's pie Power Rankings (3.1416 rules!)
3) N4L's Poster Power Rankings
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
big9erfan


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 19726
PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:

I've said it for a while, this team isn't as bare of talent as most people think.


Well given that we've already replaced over half the guys from the roster we ended the year with, with many more likely to go before the season starts, and the majority of the 2016 team likely to be gone by the time the 2018 season is over i think the current management comes down more on the side of the talent they inherited being as bad as most people thought it was.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rudyZ


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
Posts: 17044
Location: Québec
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big9erfan wrote:
rudyZ wrote:

I've said it for a while, this team isn't as bare of talent as most people think.


Well given that we've already replaced over half the guys from the roster we ended the year with, with many more likely to go before the season starts, and the majority of the 2016 team likely to be gone by the time the 2018 season is over i think the current management comes down more on the side of the talent they inherited being as bad as most people thought it was.



But that roster turn over has been done more for philosophical reasons than for a true talent upgrade. Take QB and WR for example. Hoyer isn't immensely better than Kap, Barkley isn't much better than Gabbert, and we have no idea what we have in Beat Hard. So we have changed the players, but not necessarily in order to upgrade. Garçon is perhaps an upgrade, but the rest is most likely a lateral move. Is Earl Mitchell on the DL an upgrade in talent, or just a roster fit? So I don't see most of Lynch's move as an indictment on the talent level, just on fit. We'll still be rolling with players he inherited, like DeFo, AA, Bowman, Reid, Ward, Robinson, Staley, Hyde, Brown, Kerley and probably Garnett. The great majority of free agent signings were depth guys, and we replaced depth with another style of depth, better fits for Kylo. Before the draft, this team hadn't improved much. After the draft, sure, but that's what a draft is supposed to do to your roster every year (go tell that to Baalke, though). I don't really consider the great turn over of the roster (keep in mind that 37 of these players won't even make the team) as a true indication this team had no talent. It just shows a new management came in and required different players.
_________________


RudyZ's Power Rankings Power Ranking

1) RudyZ's Power Rankings Power Ranking
2) y2's pie Power Rankings (3.1416 rules!)
3) N4L's Poster Power Rankings
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> San Francisco 49ers All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 55, 56, 57 ... 71, 72, 73  Next
Page 56 of 73

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group