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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Laughing Turtle - using the hindsight you are using I could go through every single GMs draft and FA pick-up history in the league and make him look like a terrible talent evaluator. Every. Single. GM.
It's not hindsight Mr RG3, it is foresight. Whether you like it or not, those are some of the decisions I thought the team should have made before free agency and the draft in 2015 & 16, and ones given McCloughan's history I thought it was obvious he would make, and he didn't, which is disappointing.

You can't say that 3 years later it's hindsight for me because that sir would be untrue.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Laughing Turtle - using the hindsight you are using I could go through every single GMs draft and FA pick-up history in the league and make him look like a terrible talent evaluator. Every. Single. GM.
It's not hindsight Mr RG3, it is foresight. Whether you like it or not, those are some of the decisions I thought the team should have made before free agency and the draft in 2015 & 16, and ones given McCloughan's history I thought it was obvious he would make, and he didn't, which is disappointing.

You can't say that 3 years later it's hindsight for me because that sir would be untrue.


You must be flustered if you have to bring that part of my username up. Laughing

Like I said, I could go through every GM's moves in the league and do exactly what you just did.

If you want to claim it's all foresight, I'm sure there were plenty of good moves McCloughan made that you didn't want at the time, but that worked out well. Jamison Crowder and Josh Norman for instance.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Laughing Turtle - using the hindsight you are using I could go through every single GMs draft and FA pick-up history in the league and make him look like a terrible talent evaluator. Every. Single. GM.
It's not hindsight Mr RG3, it is foresight. Whether you like it or not, those are some of the decisions I thought the team should have made before free agency and the draft in 2015 & 16, and ones given McCloughan's history I thought it was obvious he would make, and he didn't, which is disappointing.

You can't say that 3 years later it's hindsight for me because that sir would be untrue.


You must be flustered if you have to bring that part of my username up. Laughing

Like I said, I could go through every GM's moves in the league and do exactly what you just did.

If you want to claim it's all foresight, I'm sure there were plenty of good moves McCloughan made that you didn't want at the time, but that worked out well. Jamison Crowder and Josh Norman for instance.
It was a joke. Laughing Wink

It is a bit annoying though but maybe I'm misunderstanding how you are using hindsight. I thought you were saying my ideas were hindsight.

I'm not sure where the McCloughan moves and "hindsight point" fits, they just didn't work out as well as they could of & most people in Redskins Nation wanted to take or sign someone different.

Not really sure how that's hindsight for me or anyone else but obviously you love using the term wrong, so just keep at it. Wink

He certainly was right about Crowder and he made a good selection with Jarrett - too bad he got hurt. Sad

I still say we lucked out that Norman's tag was rescinded and other teams had spent a lot of FA $ already but we hadn't so we could sign him to the deal he wanted a mknth after free agency started or whatever. He got lucky.

Of course for every Norman there is a Culliver, that was a great one! Thank god for Schafer and Allen on how they constructed Culliver's contract so we could cut him after one year. Cool
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, Dion Jordan,DE/OLB from the Dolphins was cut today and Ego Ferguson former 2nd round DE/DT of the Bears who's battled injuries most of his 4 year career was cut.

Should we bring them in for workouts in the way that we did for Hood last year and Phil Taylor?

Perhaps they have something they can offer us if they can stay healthy and they both have talent.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
Laughing Turtle - using the hindsight you are using I could go through every single GMs draft and FA pick-up history in the league and make him look like a terrible talent evaluator. Every. Single. GM.
It's not hindsight Mr RG3, it is foresight. Whether you like it or not, those are some of the decisions I thought the team should have made before free agency and the draft in 2015 & 16, and ones given McCloughan's history I thought it was obvious he would make, and he didn't, which is disappointing.

You can't say that 3 years later it's hindsight for me because that sir would be untrue.


You must be flustered if you have to bring that part of my username up. Laughing

Like I said, I could go through every GM's moves in the league and do exactly what you just did.

If you want to claim it's all foresight, I'm sure there were plenty of good moves McCloughan made that you didn't want at the time, but that worked out well. Jamison Crowder and Josh Norman for instance.
It was a joke. Laughing Wink

It is a bit annoying though but maybe I'm misunderstanding how you are using hindsight. I thought you were saying my ideas were hindsight.

I'm not sure where the McCloughan moves and "hindsight point" fits, they just didn't work out as well as they could of & most people in Redskins Nation wanted to take or sign someone different.

Not really sure how that's hindsight for me or anyone else but obviously you love using the term wrong, so just keep at it. Wink

He certainly was right about Crowder and he made a good selection with Jarrett - too bad he got hurt. Sad

I still say we lucked out that Norman's tag was rescinded and other teams had spent a lot of FA $ already but we hadn't so we could sign him to the deal he wanted a mknth after free agency started or whatever. He got lucky.

Of course for every Norman there is a Culliver, that was a great one! Thank god for Schafer and Allen on how they constructed Culliver's contract so we could cut him after one year. Cool


I'm using the word "hindsight" because I think it's BS that, at the time, you were clamoring for all those players you gave as alternatives to the ones we ended up picking or signing.

For instance, I never saw you clamoring for Langford over Jones.

And Norman wasn't just luck, McCloughan and co. had to work hard to keep him there and sell him on the idea of being a Redskin. You seem to have forgotten that:



Quote:
Norman’s eyes lit at each selling-point. But he wanted to visit other teams, too. “Believe it or not,” Norman says, “some teams were offering me more money than the Redskins.” The 49ers had plenty of cap space, and the Dolphins inquired about a one-year deal. The Buccaneers, having been there before with Darrelle Revis, called almost immediately, as did the Rams, who lost Janoris Jenkins in free agency, and the Giants, who spent money this offseason as they never had before. The Saints were putting on a press, too—Norman says New Orleans coach Sean Payton called several times. “At one point,” says McCloughan, “I was ready to call Sean and say, quit calling, he’s in my building!”



Quote:
At 8 p.m., Schaffer found McCloughan in the hallway to tell him the deal was done. The general manager returned to the conference room where Snyder, Allen and Norman were waiting. McCloughan’s newest player gave him a hug. “The reason I did this,” Norman told the GM, “is because of what you said about the team, and the environment.”

“He hugged me really hard,” McCloughan said. “He hugged me for like 10 seconds. He didn’t let go.”
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
1. DE Leonard Williams or Brandon Scherff?
I wanted Williams, you have touted Scherff all along. So you're supporting McCloughan here?

turtle28 wrote:
2. NT Eddie Goldman or Preston Smith?
Eddie Goldman was injured all year. I could easily argue Preston Smith has been a better pick than Goldman. Smith also plays a more valuable position. Haven't you been arguing that Smith led the team in pressures and was a better pass rusher than Kerrigan?

turtle28 wrote:
3. Jeremy Langford or Matt Jones?
Career rushing yards: Matt Jones (950), Jeremy Langford (737). You also LOVED Matt Jones, so again aren't you supporting McCloughan here?

turtle28 wrote:
4. Would you have traded for Dashon Goldson as GM?
Goldson led the team in tackles the year he played for us. We traded a 2016 6th round pick for him, then we traded down and got a 2016 6th round pick for the Saints. So we got a solid year of production out of him for practically nothing. Yes, solid trade.

turtle28 wrote:
5. Would you sign Jerron Johnson or Will Demps to as a stop gap to compete for a starting S?
Will Demps?

turtle28 wrote:
6. DE/DT Nick Fairley and NT Ahtyba Rubin or RJF and Potroast?
I don't think its practical to argue over free agents, we have no idea if those players you mentioned had any interest in joining the Redskins. I will note that RJF was a solid rotational DE that our new President of Football Operations cut because he didn't kiss up to the front office.

turtle28 wrote:
7. When you were saying who we should draft in 2016, were you saying Josh Doctson or best available defender - preferably DL?
Name a DLine in last year's draft that would have made an impact this past year. Doctson was always picked for this year, knowing that Garcon and DJax were FAs. If Doctson gets healthy and pans out, it was a great pick. So this is tbd.

turtle28 wrote:
8. Sign Kendall Reyes or Nick Fairley again?
We have no idea if Nick Fairley had any interest in playing for the Redskins.

turtle28 wrote:
9. Pay for the pro bowl NT Damon Harrison or role with Kedric Golston?
Ok, well once again you're playing both sides on this. When we retained Golston you said it was a great signing and that he would be a good starting NT. Also, once again we don't know if Harrison even wanted to play for the Redskins. The Giants gave him the opportunity to not have to move, sell his house, take his kids out of school, etc.

turtle28 wrote:
10. Sign a 2nd career back up - like Jerron Johnson in 2015 - to be your new starting SS - David Bruton - instead of playing Sua Cravens your rookie SS you just drafted there or spending on a pro bowl caliber S with the money you did have on Tashaun Gipson, Rodney McLeod, Reggie Nelson or Tayvon Branch?
Playing Cravens at MLB was a coaching decision. I don't see how that is on McCloughan at all.

turtle28 wrote:
11. Would you Not re-sign Alfred Morris because you're convinced that Matt Jones is the next Marshawn Lynch or Frank Gore?
All signs point to Alfred Morris declining rapidly in production. His YPC has been dropping every year.

turtle28 wrote:
I mean, let's be honest here folks, NOT biased because of one man's reputation.
Yeah let's be honest. You left out McCloughan supporting Gruden benching RG3 and starting Kirk Cousins. You left out how McCloughan apparently wanted to extend Cousins last year, but Bruce Allen didn't and created our current situation. You left out signing Josh Norman. You left out signing solid role players like Quinton Dunbar, Ziggy Hood, Mason Foster, Deshazor Everett, Robert Kelley, Will Blackmon, Ty Nsekhe, & Maurice Harris. You left out drafting Jamison Crowder. You left out that under McCloughan we had the first back to back winning seasons under Dan Snyder.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did clamor for Langford. I didn't necessarily want to draft a running back in 2015 because I believed in Alfred Morris and I thought we should have retained Helu but after we lost Helu, I did want Langford. I'm an Ohio state Fan, Langford used to kill the Buckeyes when he played for MSU - I know he was a good running back - almost as bad as Le'Veon Bell did when Bell played for the Spartans. I definitely didn't want Matt Jones, honestly I didn't know who the hell he was when we drafted him but Scot sold me on him a bit but I never once thought he was going to be Lynch at best I thought Jones could be like Gore. I still can't believe Scot said that, it was nearly as bad as Shanahan's "Beck" comment.

You can believe what you want. My mock drafts from back then show the truth when I did mock a running back to us. I was a Langford man.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
1. DE Leonard Williams or Brandon Scherff?
I wanted Williams, you have touted Scherff all along. So you're supporting McCloughan here?

turtle28 wrote:
2. NT Eddie Goldman or Preston Smith?
Eddie Goldman was injured all year. I could easily argue Preston Smith has been a better pick than Goldman. Smith also plays a more valuable position. Haven't you been arguing that Smith led the team in pressures and was a better pass rusher than Kerrigan?

turtle28 wrote:
3. Jeremy Langford or Matt Jones?
Career rushing yards: Matt Jones (950), Jeremy Langford (737). You also LOVED Matt Jones, so again aren't you supporting McCloughan here?

turtle28 wrote:
4. Would you have traded for Dashon Goldson as GM?
Goldson led the team in tackles the year he played for us. We traded a 2016 6th round pick for him, then we traded down and got a 2016 6th round pick for the Saints. So we got a solid year of production out of him for practically nothing. Yes, solid trade.

turtle28 wrote:
5. Would you sign Jerron Johnson or Will Demps to as a stop gap to compete for a starting S?
Will Demps?

turtle28 wrote:
6. DE/DT Nick Fairley and NT Ahtyba Rubin or RJF and Potroast?
I don't think its practical to argue over free agents, we have no idea if those players you mentioned had any interest in joining the Redskins. I will note that RJF was a solid rotational DE that our new President of Football Operations cut because he didn't kiss up to the front office.

turtle28 wrote:
7. When you were saying who we should draft in 2016, were you saying Josh Doctson or best available defender - preferably DL?
Name a DLine in last year's draft that would have made an impact this past year. Doctson was always picked for this year, knowing that Garcon and DJax were FAs. If Doctson gets healthy and pans out, it was a great pick. So this is tbd.

turtle28 wrote:
8. Sign Kendall Reyes or Nick Fairley again?
We have no idea if Nick Fairley had any interest in playing for the Redskins.

turtle28 wrote:
9. Pay for the pro bowl NT Damon Harrison or role with Kedric Golston?
Ok, well once again you're playing both sides on this. When we retained Golston you said it was a great signing and that he would be a good starting NT. Also, once again we don't know if Harrison even wanted to play for the Redskins. The Giants gave him the opportunity to not have to move, sell his house, take his kids out of school, etc.

turtle28 wrote:
10. Sign a 2nd career back up - like Jerron Johnson in 2015 - to be your new starting SS - David Bruton - instead of playing Sua Cravens your rookie SS you just drafted there or spending on a pro bowl caliber S with the money you did have on Tashaun Gipson, Rodney McLeod, Reggie Nelson or Tayvon Branch?
Playing Cravens at MLB was a coaching decision. I don't see how that is on McCloughan at all.

turtle28 wrote:
11. Would you Not re-sign Alfred Morris because you're convinced that Matt Jones is the next Marshawn Lynch or Frank Gore?
All signs point to Alfred Morris declining rapidly in production. His YPC has been dropping every year.

turtle28 wrote:
I mean, let's be honest here folks, NOT biased because of one man's reputation.
Yeah let's be honest. You left out McCloughan supporting Gruden benching RG3 and starting Kirk Cousins. You left out how McCloughan apparently wanted to extend Cousins last year, but Bruce Allen didn't and created our current situation. You left out signing Josh Norman. You left out signing solid role players like Quinton Dunbar, Ziggy Hood, Mason Foster, Deshazor Everett, Robert Kelley, Will Blackmon, Ty Nsekhe, & Maurice Harris. You left out drafting Jamison Crowder. You left out that under McCloughan we had the first back to back winning seasons under Dan Snyder.
There is some truth to the last paragraph. That still doesn't mean that Scot didn't make some questionable decisions with his first round draft picks and his free agent decisions in March.

You're just wrong in your mischaracterization of my opinions and the positions I had on what we should have done in free agency and the draft in 2015 & 16 but, I wouldn't expect anything less, you're pretty good a remembering the pieces you want to remember and then making them fit into your narrative like a salesman.

I didn't leave out Josh Norman, we got lucky that the Panthers rescinded his franchise tag and we were lucky when it happened because most teams had already spent all their free agent money up. And Norman was damn no brainer as far as going after him, even though it did break with the character and the words of how Scot said he was going to build the team and the deal clearly undercut Cousins because he didn't see that kind of $ on a long term deal in last offseason.

I'm glad Scot found role players as Street free agents but I think you're grasping at straws. Laughing

Guys like you complain about players like Hood, Foster and Whitner all year long but now you bring at least two of them up as "solid role players." I mean the irony can not be more hilarious!

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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A TRAIN 89


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like former Bills MLB Zach Brown is visiting the Redskins on Monday. Sounds like he's probably looking for another 1 yr deal if he can't get a long term deal he likes.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A TRAIN 89 wrote:
Looks like former Bills MLB Zach Brown is visiting the Redskins on Monday. Sounds like he's probably looking for another 1 yr deal if he can't get a long term deal he likes.
Where did you see this? That would be fantastic he was my top free agent that I wanted us to sign.
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MikeT14


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
A TRAIN 89 wrote:
Looks like former Bills MLB Zach Brown is visiting the Redskins on Monday. Sounds like he's probably looking for another 1 yr deal if he can't get a long term deal he likes.
Where did you see this? That would be fantastic he was my top free agent that I wanted us to sign.


I saw on roto. Would finally let us relegate will Compton (sorry turtle) to the bench
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be perfect for this team as I think Compton really holds back Foster who's a much better player than him. I'd still pick Rueben Foster even if we signed Brown though and then Monty Adams from Auburn in the second.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeT14 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
A TRAIN 89 wrote:
Looks like former Bills MLB Zach Brown is visiting the Redskins on Monday. Sounds like he's probably looking for another 1 yr deal if he can't get a long term deal he likes.
Where did you see this? That would be fantastic he was my top free agent that I wanted us to sign.


I saw on roto. Would finally let us relegate will Compton (sorry turtle) to the bench
I'm all for it. I have no problem with replacing Compton or Foster with a better player. I just don't think they're the worst linebackers in the league like some lead on that they believe. I think they're average starters that can be upgraded. I wish we had signed Minter.

@MasterTes
Quote:
Inside linebacker Zach Brown will visit the #Redskins on Monday, per source
1:57 PM · Apr 2, 2017


Damn it Bruce Allen! Laughing
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Dashing


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he will sign he was raised from Columbia Maryland .


Between us and Oakland but my gut tells me he will pick the redskins maybe give him the contract he's looking for .

Winning team would be Oakland tho so I also wouldn't be surprised if he picked a team with a qb on deck .
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Wait a second. Pryor wanted to come to the Redskins and play with Kirk Cousins.


For one year, in hopes of recreating a market for his services long term. Now maybe that long term deal is here, but there's no guarantee of that.

Quote:
DJ Swearinger wanted to play in DC also so he could be reunited with Josh Norman.


Swearinger is probably a special case since he gets to play with his highschool teammate. Depending on that kind of bond is kind of like expecting to discover a diamond after pulling up a dandelion. Sure, it could happen, but the odds are WAY unlikely.

Quote:
If we had overpaid for a 31 year old Campbell, we probably could have signed him and if we were willing to give Hankins or Poe or Logan $10 million plus a year we could have had them. I'm sure we could have overpaid for Minter or another ILB to lock them up also.


Well, yes. That's the "dysfunction tax" at work. We could do those things. I think we both agree those things are not good for the franchise long term.

Keep in mind that Hankins was looking for $10M/year and we have the space, but our name has not come up in any rumors.

Quote:
Next offseason we'll hopefully have to pay Breeland, Long, Moses and Murphy on long term deals because they will have earned it this season. Home grown talent that Bruce Allen and Jay Gruden drafted in 2014, I think we should keep that in mind. Wink


Only one of those I think gets a "big" deal is possibly Moses. Depending on the draft, Long could be re-signed but I don't think he makes a giant splash. It wouldn't surprise me if Murphy and Breeland leave.
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