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Marvin Lewis Draft History Breakdown
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johndeere1707


Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 7149
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Marvin Lewis Draft History Breakdown Reply with quote

Being bored at work I decided to go back and look at Marvin Lewis's draft history with the Bengals. What positions are we good at drafting? What positions do we suck at? Obviously this is all subjective. Lets take a look...

Obviously some grades were increased due to Superstar players. Bolded players mean hits. Bolded and italicized players are superstars.

QB: 5 selected 3/5 hits Grade: A
Palmer, Bramlet, Rowe, Dalton, McCarron

Not bad, however hard to miss on Palmer. Dalton and McCarron have been solid finds in later rounds.

Biggest Hit: Palmer
Biggest Miss: none

Best rounds to draft: 1-2

RB: 8 selected 4/8 hits Grade: B
Perry, Irons, Scott, Finley, Herron, Bernard, Burkhead, Hill

A lot of high picks invested in RB. However about 2/4 hits have been in later rounds in Scott and Burkhead. Injuries derailed Perry and Irons careers. Hill and Bernard have been solid.

Biggest Hit: Bernard
Biggest Miss: Perry

Best rounds to draft: 2nd, 6th

FB: 2 selected 1/2 hits Grade: C-
Johnson, Vakapuna

Jeremy Johnson was solid for awhile. Most of our fullbacks have been undrafted players.

Biggest hit: who cares

Best rounds to draft: 4th

WR: 21 selected 11/21 hits Grade: A-/B+
Washington, Mann, Henry, Perry, McNeal, Brazell, Simpson, Caldwell, Urrutia, Brown, Shipley, Briscoe, Green, Whalen, Sanu, Jones, Hamilton, Wright, Alford, Boyd, Core

Highly invested position. Solid finds, seems to have been a strength. Many superstar players in Henry, Green, and Jones, and high production in Boyd and Sanu. Many "misses" have been special teams contributors at least.

Biggest Hit: AJ Green
Biggest Miss: none really

Best rounds to draft: 1-3 (3rd round had 5 hits)

TE: 7 selected 4/7 hits Grade: C+
Sherry, Coffman, Gresham, Charles, Eifert, Kroft, Uzomah

Was a little generous with the "hits" on this one. Kroft and Uzomah have played but have been a little inconsistent. Definitely could be 2/7, and thats even stretching it given Gresham's draft status and Eiferts injury history.

Biggest hit: Eifert
Biggest Miss: Coffman

Best rounds to draft: 1st

OG: 9 selected 3/9 hits Grade: B-
Steinbach, Santucci, Hudson, Stephens, Boling, Zeitler, Hawkinson, Johnson, Westerman

Jury is out on Westerman, and Johnson has been able to stay on the roster for a few seasons. Despite the low return, 3 OGs have been the best at their positions.

Biggest hit: Steinbach
Biggest Miss: none

Best rounds to draft: 1-2

OT: 9 selected 5/9 hits Grade: A
Kooistra, Andrews, Kieft, Whitworth, Collins, Smith, Fragel, Ogbuehi, Fisher

One of the better position groups drafted. Whitworth obviously has been stellar. Smith, Collins, and Andrews were serviceable. Fisher has flashed. Hopefully Ogbuehi can step it up.

Biggest Hit: Whitworth
Biggest Miss: Ogbuehi

Best rounds to draft: 2nd, 4th

C: 3 drafted 1?/3 hits
Ghiaciuc, Luigs, Bodine Grade: F

Weak position group. Definitely one of the most neglected areas on the team. Ghiaciuc played a fair amount. Bodine has been an ok starter but could definitely be upgraded.

Biggest "Hit"/but not really: Bodine
Biggest miss: None

Best rounds to draft: All drafted in 4th

DE: 10 selected 4/10 hits Grade: C-
Patterson, Geathers, Pollack, Fanene, Rucker, Craig, Johnson, Dunlap, Hunt, Clarke

Another average position group. Johnson and Dunlap have been the best of the bunch. Geathers was serviceable early on in his career. Fanene was productive for his draft status. Rucker produced more on other teams. What could have been with Pollack?

Biggest Hit: Dunlap
Biggest Miss: Hunt/Pollack

Best rounds to draft: 2-3

DT: 12 selected 3/12 hits Grade: C-
Moore, Askew, Peko, Toeaina, Sims, Shirley, McDonald, Atkins, Thompson, Still, Hardison, Billings

Aside from Geno Atkins, this position group has been lackluster. Peko has been solid for most of his career. Sims has been alright depth. Thompson flashed but has had a hard time staying healthy. The jury is still out on Hardison and Billings.

Biggest Hit: Atkins
Biggest Miss: Still

Best rounds to draft: 4th

LB: 13 selected 5/13 hits Grade: C-
Abdullah, Miller, Johnson, Thurman, Nicholson, Rivers, Maualuga, Muckelroy, Moch, Porter, Flowers, Dawson, Vigil

Another average group. A lot of starters throughout the years have been undrafted players. Thurman was listed a hit, despite only one year of "superstar play". Vigil flashed enough this year to be a hit for me.

Biggest Hit: Maualuga
Biggest Miss: Moch

Best rounds to draft: 1-2

CB: 14 selected 5/14 hits Grade: B+
Weathersby, Ratliff, Brooks, Joseph, Hall, Trent, Ghee, Lindsey, Kirkpatrick, Prater, Dennard, Westbrooks, Shaw, Jackson III

Solid position group. However most hits were 1st/2nd round picks. Dennard and WJ3 could be hits, however have not seen the field much. Joseph and Hall were a great 1-2 punch for a few seasons.

Biggest hit: Hall/Joseph
Biggest miss: Dennard (so far)

Best rounds to draft: 1st

S: 10 selected 7/10 hits Grade: B+
M. Williams, Kilmer, White, Ndukwe, Lynch, Sands, Iloka, S. Williams, Smith, Fejedelem

The Bengals have gotten surprisingly alot of playing time out of their draft picks at safety. Smith and Fej are listed as hits because they have flashed when playing time has come along.

Biggest hit: Iloka
Biggest miss: none

Best rounds to draft: 2-7

K: 0 selected

P: 1 selected 1/1 hits Grade: A
Huber

Huber has been pretty darn good.

Best rounds to draft: 5th


In conclusion, Marvin has been fairly good at finding talent with QBs, WRs, OG/OTs, and S's.

Biggest misses/neglected positions have been C, D-line, and LB

Average picks in the CB, RB, and TE groups

1st round hits: 10/15 67%
2nd round hits: 13/16 81%
3rd round hits: 11/19 58%
4th round hits: 10/19 53%
5th round hits: 5/16 31%
6th round hits: 4/16 25%
7th round hits: 3/22 14%
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Last edited by johndeere1707 on Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First I wanted to say great work on this.

But Jerome Simpson considered a hit? If he was selected in the 5th round or later, maybe. But he contributed nothing to special teams and didn't amount to much as a wider receiver. For a 2nd round draft pick, I consider him a bust.

I would also put Irons as our biggest bust at RB. Injuries derailed him but at least we got something out of Chris Perry which is more than I can say about Irons...
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johndeere1707


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
First I wanted to say great work on this.

But Jerome Simpson considered a hit? If he was selected in the 5th round or later, maybe. But he contributed nothing to special teams and didn't amount to much as a wider receiver. For a 2nd round draft pick, I consider him a bust.

I would also put Irons as our biggest bust at RB. Injuries derailed him but at least we got something out of Chris Perry which is more than I can say about Irons...


Thanks man.
I would agree Simpson wasn't the biggest hit. But at least we got production out of him to some degree and he had his occasional high light reel catches.

Irons and Perry were close as well. I just put Perry because he was a 1st round pick (over Steven Jackson)
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theJ


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johndeere1707 wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
First I wanted to say great work on this.

But Jerome Simpson considered a hit? If he was selected in the 5th round or later, maybe. But he contributed nothing to special teams and didn't amount to much as a wider receiver. For a 2nd round draft pick, I consider him a bust.

I would also put Irons as our biggest bust at RB. Injuries derailed him but at least we got something out of Chris Perry which is more than I can say about Irons...


Thanks man.
I would agree Simpson wasn't the biggest hit. But at least we got production out of him to some degree and he had his occasional high light reel catches.

Irons and Perry were close as well. I just put Perry because he was a 1st round pick (over Steven Jackson)

I almost feel like you need a fourth category
Nothing - miss
Bold - contributed at least something
Bold+underline - solid player
Bolt+underline+italics - superstar

Also, good work. I could nit pick on some stuff, but it's not important. Not surprising, the positions they've missed the most are the ones they've decided they don't need to spend 1st or 2nd round picks on.
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johndeere1707


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might go back and count how many players in each round panned out
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johndeere1707


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

updated with numbers
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INbengalfan


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write-up. Now I have proof that my dream draft would work..

1. Foster
2. DE (Kpassagnon or Walker at this point, because others are rising)
3. Dupre
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Carson4MVP


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
First I wanted to say great work on this.

But Jerome Simpson considered a hit? If he was selected in the 5th round or later, maybe. But he contributed nothing to special teams and didn't amount to much as a wider receiver. For a 2nd round draft pick, I consider him a bust.

I would also put Irons as our biggest bust at RB. Injuries derailed him but at least we got something out of Chris Perry which is more than I can say about Irons...


Perry will always be the biggest bust for me. Considering we took him over Steven Jackson. I thought it was a terrible pick that day and remains a terrible pick for me.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
First I wanted to say great work on this.

But Jerome Simpson considered a hit? If he was selected in the 5th round or later, maybe. But he contributed nothing to special teams and didn't amount to much as a wider receiver. For a 2nd round draft pick, I consider him a bust.

I would also put Irons as our biggest bust at RB. Injuries derailed him but at least we got something out of Chris Perry which is more than I can say about Irons...


Perry will always be the biggest bust for me. Considering we took him over Steven Jackson. I thought it was a terrible pick that day and remains a terrible pick for me.


So technically he wasn't picked over Steven Jackson. We traded back and got an additional draft pick and then selected Perry.

Also, Perry looked pretty good when he was on the field and healthy. He was a machine on 3rd down. Irons gave us jack...
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Beck Bristow


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't we get Deltha Oneal out of that or am I confusing trades?
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beck Bristow wrote:
Didn't we get Deltha Oneal out of that or am I confusing trades?


So we made a couple of trades in 2004. At the end of the day we got: Chris Perry, Deltha O'Neil, Robert Geathers, and Stacey Andrews.

If we stayed put (or at least not trading the second time around), we would have had Deltha O'Neil and Steven Jackson instead.

Hindsight is 20/20 but either way you look at it, I don't think it was as disastrous as some people made it out to be...
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theJ


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beck Bristow wrote:
Didn't we get Deltha Oneal out of that or am I confusing trades?

From my memory - bengals traded back from in the teens to 24 (From Denver). Got ONeal out of that trade. Then back a few more spots with a swap with St. Louis. St. Louis then took Jackson.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheVillain112 wrote:
Carson4MVP wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
First I wanted to say great work on this.

But Jerome Simpson considered a hit? If he was selected in the 5th round or later, maybe. But he contributed nothing to special teams and didn't amount to much as a wider receiver. For a 2nd round draft pick, I consider him a bust.

I would also put Irons as our biggest bust at RB. Injuries derailed him but at least we got something out of Chris Perry which is more than I can say about Irons...


Perry will always be the biggest bust for me. Considering we took him over Steven Jackson. I thought it was a terrible pick that day and remains a terrible pick for me.


So technically he wasn't picked over Steven Jackson. We traded back and got an additional draft pick and then selected Perry.

Also, Perry looked pretty good when he was on the field and healthy. He was a machine on 3rd down. Irons gave us jack...

I think it's unfair to say Perry wasn't a huge bust when Irons was. They were both out of the league quickly because of injuries.

That being said, i agree with you. Perry at least contributed in 2004/2005. Irons never gave anything.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
Carson4MVP wrote:
TheVillain112 wrote:
First I wanted to say great work on this.

But Jerome Simpson considered a hit? If he was selected in the 5th round or later, maybe. But he contributed nothing to special teams and didn't amount to much as a wider receiver. For a 2nd round draft pick, I consider him a bust.

I would also put Irons as our biggest bust at RB. Injuries derailed him but at least we got something out of Chris Perry which is more than I can say about Irons...


Perry will always be the biggest bust for me. Considering we took him over Steven Jackson. I thought it was a terrible pick that day and remains a terrible pick for me.


So technically he wasn't picked over Steven Jackson. We traded back and got an additional draft pick and then selected Perry.

Also, Perry looked pretty good when he was on the field and healthy. He was a machine on 3rd down. Irons gave us jack...

I think it's unfair to say Perry wasn't a huge bust when Irons was. They were both out of the league quickly because of injuries.

That being said, i agree with you. Perry at least contributed in 2004/2005. Irons never gave anything.


I'm not saying Perry wasn't a bust. Just pointing out as you stated as well that at least he contributed at one point unlike Irons...
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johndeere1707


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was never impressed with Perry. I hated that pick.
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