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John Pagano joining Raiders staff as Asst. Head Coach D.
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 3423
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our run defense struggled, because our interior DL was pretty bad.

Mack and Irvin had to always chechk for inside runs also, so they couldn't be that effective setting the edges.

Ward in Edwards's place was a huge downgrade and the NT's played a lot less effective then a year before.

I think in Latham, Edwards and possibly McGee we could have 3 very capable player against the run in 5,4 and 3 tech positions, so the DE and DT positions should be alright.
We need to upgrade our NT position against the run and then a strong interior DL will make the RB wanna go outside more, but Mack and Irvin will be able to concentrate on the edges, so there won't be many running lanes at all.

We also need a better tackler at WLB and indeally at FS too.
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ZoomWaffle


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 5799
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NightTrainLane wrote:
Rolni wrote:
ZoomWaffle wrote:
DC4_Life wrote:
could the Raiders be transitioning to more of base 3-4 defense Del Rio and Pagano history. I don't think we have the athletes to be Seattle....


Del Rio history? I know Pagano is a 3-4 coach but JDR has always been a 4-3 guy. Seems strange that he would go away from his preferred scheme but who knows. For what it's worth, I would rather see Mack and Aldon at OLB in a 3-4 so I'd be all for it. I think we'd get more out of them there than at DE.

There is not that clear difference anymore between 3-4 and 4-3.

The 4-3 under scheme use by the Seahawks is pretty similar to a 3-4 D and overall our Defense is already a hybrid 3-4\4-3 D.

We use 3 bigger DL players like the 3-4 teams.
We use a DE, a NT and a DT on paper, but basically that is the same as a LDE-NT-RDE in a 3-4.
We ask our interior DL's to 2gap in base, so this is pretty much the same as a 2gap 3-4 base DL.
The difference on paper is that we put Mack in as a DE in the depth chart, not as an OLB, but if you watch closely he is in a stand up position a lot especially in the base early on.

As a Base we use Mack and Irvin as OLB's with the interior DL (3guys) down in the dirt with two off ball LB's behind them.
This is basically a 5-2 front 7, but you can call it 3-4 if you want. If Mack puts his hand on the ground you can call it a 4-3 under front. Makes no real difference.


I don't think Zoom was around for or maybe just doesn't remember the pages and pages and pages and pages of 3-4 and 4-3 back and forth we had last year. We all came to the conclusion that we can't really call our defense one or the other since it looks like both and changes from snap to snap and start to start.


Yea, I remember the thread and I know we mix it up a ton. I get what Rolni is saying. I just thought Mack and Aldon both were more effective standing up in their careers but living overseas I only watch a handful of games a year so I could be way off. I think having them stand up as OLBs more often would help the defense more but I could be wrong.
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Rolni


Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 3423
Location: Europe
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZoomWaffle wrote:

Yea, I remember the thread and I know we mix it up a ton. I get what Rolni is saying. I just thought Mack and Aldon both were more effective standing up in their careers but living overseas I only watch a handful of games a year so I could be way off. I think having them stand up as OLBs more often would help the defense more but I could be wrong.

Aldon Smith is a 3-4OLB, he played from a 2 point stance for the most part of his NFL carrier. If I remember correctly we rushed him from tha stand up position even in nickel packages, I guess IF he even gets back he will play from a 2 point stance.

Mack on the other side is pretty effective from either position IMO. The thing with Mack is that he is more effective from the left side. LDE or LOLB makes no real difference IMO. With his power he might be better of from the down position where he can stay low and push the OL backwards.
He played from 2 point in base as an OLB and from the dirt in nickel and dime as a DE. I think that will be the same going forward.

If Aldon gets back he should get into the rotation with Irvin and Mack. In the base as a true 3-4OLB, most probably ROLB and in nickel and dime as RDE, who can also work from a 2 point stance. A fresh trio of them could be really dangerous...but I'm not holding my breath for Aldon...
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