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Le'veon Bell Playing Through Injury for "Weeks"?
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yin-Yang wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
No they prepare for the opposing team's schemes. They will mimic the style of the players on the opposing team but if any player is listed as questionable they are still going to prepare as if he is starting. You rarely would ever change the way you plan to attack based on a non-QB being listed as questionable. Just like the Pittsburgh Steelers wouldn't have changed everything about their run offense thinking that Bell would be listed as questionable. They may run different plays to exploit different strengths but that is play calling during the game, not changing how you prepare. The offensive lineman, QB, wide receivers and tight ends still have the same duties on the run play called regardless of who is carrying the ball. The same with the defense. You still have gap responsibility, have to set the edge, etc... no matter who is running the football, you will just likely have better success at what you are doing with the less talented player in there.


We're beating around the bush at this point, you don't address anything and then just spew exactly what you said before with different words.

No, teams don't prepare just for schemes. If they did, there'd be no reason to practice for teams like Atlanta (on defense) or Seattle; everyone knows what they run on defense. If you know Kam is going to be a libaility/inactive, you may wish to take advantage of outside runs. If Earl is going to be a liability/inactive, you may wish to test him more on the deep ball. If Ed Reed is a liability/inactive, then that completely changes how you can attack the Ravens defense. Packers have the flu? Maybe I'll run some hurry up and test their cardio.

It's not "this is what we do, we'll do it with whoever against whatever man is lined up ahead of us". Teams game plan for certain players. We've seen teams just run away from players before, all game long (Donald, off the top of my head).

Now, I see you're contending that teams will game plan for a guy that is questionable. That's true. But it still allows the team to prepare for the possibility of that player not playing or playing hurt. Even then, what if the guy's doubtful? Or reports come out saying he's highly unlikely to play? Do teams prepare for the Texans and JJ Watt with ruptured discs the same way they do if he's healthy? No way.

You either have a misconstrued outlook on what goes on during the week or severely underestimate how much work goes into these games.[/b]


You keep saying this although I never said that.

I do not believe a team goes into a game against the Steelers and spends their week trying to figure out how to stop Bell specifically. The running game, sure. How to beat the offensive line, sure. They will emphasize finishing a tackle or Bell will keep going but they aren't scheming a new tackling procedure to stop him.


You say teams already know how to game plan against the opposing team's schemes because they already know them but you don't think they already know Bell or Earl Thomas? Sure the coaches may game plan differently without Thomas in there. But as you stated earlier the game isn't scripted all the coaches have to do is call plays depending on what personnel is on the field at the time they are calling plays. It may be irritating to a coach who thought a certain player was out and he comes back in but it doesn't put him at a disadvantage. It certainly isn't going to irritate an opposing coach if he thought Earl Thomas was going to play and was a late scratch. He would dance the jig.
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Yin-Yang


Joined: 31 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
You keep saying this although I never said that.

I do not believe a team goes into a game against the Steelers and spends their week trying to figure out how to stop Bell specifically. The running game, sure. How to beat the offensive line, sure. They will emphasize finishing a tackle or Bell will keep going but they aren't scheming a new tackling procedure to stop him.


You say teams already know how to game plan against the opposing team's schemes because they already know them but you don't think they already know Bell or Earl Thomas? Sure the coaches may game plan differently without Thomas in there. But as you stated earlier the game isn't scripted all the coaches have to do is call plays depending on what personnel is on the field at the time they are calling plays. It may be irritating to a coach who thought a certain player was out and he comes back in but it doesn't put him at a disadvantage. It certainly isn't going to irritate an opposing coach if he thought Earl Thomas was going to play and was a late scratch. He would dance the jig.


Who said anything about a new tackling procedure? My whole point is that if Bell has a chance of being inactive or is going to be severely hobbled, the opponent may go into the game with more emphasis on stopping the pass than the run. You're essentially agreeing with me; teams will go in looking to stop the run, but Bell is the run. If he's not there/a shell of himself, the run game doesn't become a priority. And this discussion doesn't start and end with Bell. You just skip over everything you don't want to hear. A defense with Ed or Troy on it is light years different than one without.

As for the second paragraph, filled with straw men. I never said or implied the coaches don't know Bell or ET. I said they need to game plan for them during the week between games. I also never implied a coach would be unhappy if star player x was a late scratch, what I said was that it puts a lot of their preparation to waste and thus waters down the product.

I see now the main disagreement isn't in the importance of prepping, but what exactly you think teams are prepping for. Maybe the Browns do it one way, but I know that New England is very team specific. They go in looking to take certain players away. In NFL Gen, we see people discussing who's going to cover Julio in the SB. Will it be Butler+Mac? Or Rowe+Mac? Then who gets Sanu? Gabriel? Well, the Patriots have a plan in place (or will, shortly). But if Julio goes down and it doesn't get released, that changes everything up. Sure, NE wouldn't be upset that the best WR in the game isn't available, but it does mean that they wasted all their time prepping for Julio when they could've been prepping for the players that will actually be on the field.

Like I said, a coach will be able to make in-game adjustments, but that does not mean that they didn't waste time preparing for something/someone that (hypothetically) isn't on the field. I want to know my team spent time working on players that will actually be on the field, not sitting on the bench.
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I can guarantee the Pats wont make it to the SB. Thats a lock. I will not be wrong. It doesnt matter whether its because of losses or Brady going down.It just wont happen.
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Thelonebillsfan


Joined: 22 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yin-Yang wrote:
Thomas5737 wrote:
Yin-Yang wrote:
Broncofan wrote:
As covered in the Sherman thread, players sign a waiver against their privacy rights being violated so there is no HIPPA issue.

As for the purpose it's all about gambling and fantasy football. These are the reasons the NFL is so popular. The league may not want to admit this but it is what it is.


I disagree.

I think a team's preparation is key, so transparency in these instances allow for a more "pure" product on the field.


How so?


By "pure", I mean that the week's preparation was actually meaningful. Two teams fully prepared for what's going to be on the field. It's a part of what separates TNF from any other game - preparation.

Let's say we're playing the Seahawks, specifically looking at their defense. We're going to say, okay, we need to make sure we stop their pass rush, stay away from Sherman, be wary of ET deep, watch where Kam is on running plays, key in on Wagner if he's blitzing/in coverage, etc. Now let's say Earl hurts his ankle but since there's no injury report, we have no idea. We focus on attacking them short and running the ball - even against a pretty good run defense, under the assumption that we'll have more success running than throwing the ball deep. Well, Earl goes through warm ups but is essentially an inactive. Now we a gameplan that focuses on rushing and conservative passing, when we have actually have an opportunity to attack them deep. Sure, we can make in-game adjustments, but for a majority of teams the game planning done for a game is absolutely key towards what they do on game day. Teams like the Patriots could potentially make sweeping, in-game adjustments, but many teams can't. Now, in this scenario, I either stick with my gameplan (run the ball against a team with a good run defense) or attack downfield (something I spent almost no time preparing to do).

That's just one little example.


Yeah this is all entirely wrong.

Injury Reports are entirely designed for gambling.
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steelcurtain29


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are reports out there stating he actually missed for personal reasons because his girlfriend have birth to his first child.

I'd imagine that counts as personal, if true.
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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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Location: West Virginia Occupation: Browns LT
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steelcurtain29 wrote:
There are reports out there stating he actually missed for personal reasons because his girlfriend have birth to his first child.

I'd imagine that counts as personal, if true.


Quote:
Bell was asked after he missed practice if he took the day off because he became a father and he said that was not the case.


Evidently he did become a father, but being on record as saying it wasn't the reason really doesn't help.

It also doesn't mean he didn't have to be on the injury list if he had an injury the league deemed as one that should be reported.
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Yin-Yang


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thelonebillsfan wrote:
Yeah this is all entirely wrong.

Injury Reports are entirely designed for gambling.


This is all entirely wrong.

Injury reports are not entirely designed for gambling.

Wow, that took as little thought as I thought it would.
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biletnikoff wrote:
I can guarantee the Pats wont make it to the SB. Thats a lock. I will not be wrong. It doesnt matter whether its because of losses or Brady going down.It just wont happen.
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TXsteeler


Joined: 17 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yin-Yang wrote:
Thelonebillsfan wrote:
Yeah this is all entirely wrong.

Injury Reports are entirely designed for gambling.


This is all entirely wrong.

Injury reports are not entirely designed for gambling.

Wow, that took as little thought as I thought it would.


But they are though. If they actually had ANY strategic value, every single player on the team would be listed as questionable for every game for ailments like migraines or something that can't be tested for.
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Broncofan


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well an investigation is underway - http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1211344-report-nfl-investigating-le-veon-bell-s-undisclosed-injury

Bell missing 4 practices in the prior 3 weeks sure isn't a good look that the injury wasn't significant, along with Bell's admission being a new dad was not the main reason to miss his practice the week before the AFCG, and Tomlin's admission he knew about the injury.

Again, the fact that Tomlin & PIT don't have a prior record of rules violations works for them, but a later round forfeited pick is certainly in play, if SEA could lose up to a 2nd-rounder for Sherman.
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Last edited by Broncofan on Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not just do what the Pats do and put everyone on the injury report?
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SMashMouthMike


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why not just do what the Pats do and put everyone on the injury report?


Exactly. That or never say anything (substantial) to the media at all. Stupid rules on top of stupid rules.
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CKSteeler


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the Steelers had any idea that Bell would end up missing time in game as a result of this. As Mike Tomlin said, by the end of the football season everyone on the roster is banged up in some way. The NFL just continues to get dumber and dumber over time with their enforcement of things.

Roethlisberger came out after the season and said his shoulder was bothering him. His knee probably hurt all year. Should he have been on the injury report?

What does baffle me, though, is that NFL teams continue to have players pop-off about injuries every year.

The punishment of the Seahawks is dumb, as well. If a guy is missing time during the week, he goes on the report. If not, there's nothing here.
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JustAnotherFan


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CKSteeler wrote:
I don't think the Steelers had any idea that Bell would end up missing time in game as a result of this. As Mike Tomlin said, by the end of the football season everyone on the roster is banged up in some way. The NFL just continues to get dumber and dumber over time with their enforcement of things.

Roethlisberger came out after the season and said his shoulder was bothering him. His knee probably hurt all year. Should he have been on the injury report?

What does baffle me, though, is that NFL teams continue to have players pop-off about injuries every year.

The punishment of the Seahawks is dumb, as well. If a guy is missing time during the week, he goes on the report. If not, there's nothing here.
Shhhhh.......you're making too much sense for this diva generation.
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domepatrol91


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JaguarCrazy2832 wrote:
Why not just do what the Pats do and put everyone on the injury report?
Sean Payton did this for a while too, not sure if he still does.
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1BackInBlackFan


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He told a reporter that he's seen two specialists so far and will see a third about possible groin surgery.
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