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2017 QB Thread - Version II
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Crickett


Joined: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 4904
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaliforniaKid7 wrote:
Fullback wrote:
This "contest" showed us 4 things we didn't know:

1) Heath Evans has a poor reaction time.
2) Heath Evans has short arms.
3) Heath Evans can't jump at all.
4) David Carr can still sling it.

Laughing


To not be completely off topic, I think every QB in this class has certain strengths and flaws that are pretty obvious. Watson's leadership, Kizer's size, Trubisky's short-area accuracy, Mahomes' arm talent. I feel Mahomes most likely has most of these important attributes going for him. He is an enthusiastic leader with amazing work ethic, stocky body type with good functional athleticism, and good accuracy for a "gunslinger". Watson and Trubisky will never have half the arm of Mahomes, while Kizer's accuracy is very questionable

Contrary to the common vibe, Mahomes has the safest floor in my book. His personality will bring enthusiasm to a locker room. I care less about mechanics, he can sling it anywhere on the field with accuracy. That's why I like to compare him to Rivers, who is on the money with crazy mechanics. Footwork is Mahomes' biggest hurdle, but just watch the strides he's made since starting preparing for the draft. Mahomes can at the very least be Jay Cutler 2.0 on arm talent alone. That's a great floor for any QB prospect, especially outside the top 3 or so picks. But Mahomes can be so much more than Cutler 2.0 if he lands with the right franchise.


Okay now, I'm not a Cutler fan by any stretch of the imagination but the guy has been an average to above average QB for the better part of a decade. You're saying absolute worst case scenario Mahomes starts for almost 10 years? Please. Cutler has had a rough last few years and left a bad memory of himself but this is a little out there.

and by saying "Cutler 2.0" im assuming you think he'll be even better than Cutler worst case scenario?


Given his accuracy issues, I would think Mahomes' worst case scenario is Brock Osweiler.
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EliteTexan80


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Joined: 30 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CaliforniaKid7 wrote:
Fullback wrote:
Mahomes can at the very least be Jay Cutler 2.0 on arm talent alone. That's a great floor for any QB prospect, especially outside the top 3 or so picks. But Mahomes can be so much more than Cutler 2.0 if he lands with the right franchise.


Okay now, I'm not a Cutler fan by any stretch of the imagination but the guy has been an average to above average QB for the better part of a decade. You're saying absolute worst case scenario Mahomes starts for almost 10 years? Please. Cutler has had a rough last few years and left a bad memory of himself but this is a little out there.

and by saying "Cutler 2.0" im assuming you think he'll be even better than Cutler worst case scenario?


Texans fan, checking in.

If this is the floor, sign me up immediately. I will happily take top 15 production with a few top 10-esque seasons at QB for Houston.
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EliteTexan80 wrote:
I wanna be a mod.

vastly over rated.
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EliteTexan80


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Joined: 30 Apr 2007
Posts: 38732
Location: Three time Mr. fanTASTic!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
CaliforniaKid7 wrote:
Fullback wrote:
This "contest" showed us 4 things we didn't know:

1) Heath Evans has a poor reaction time.
2) Heath Evans has short arms.
3) Heath Evans can't jump at all.
4) David Carr can still sling it.

Laughing


To not be completely off topic, I think every QB in this class has certain strengths and flaws that are pretty obvious. Watson's leadership, Kizer's size, Trubisky's short-area accuracy, Mahomes' arm talent. I feel Mahomes most likely has most of these important attributes going for him. He is an enthusiastic leader with amazing work ethic, stocky body type with good functional athleticism, and good accuracy for a "gunslinger". Watson and Trubisky will never have half the arm of Mahomes, while Kizer's accuracy is very questionable

Contrary to the common vibe, Mahomes has the safest floor in my book. His personality will bring enthusiasm to a locker room. I care less about mechanics, he can sling it anywhere on the field with accuracy. That's why I like to compare him to Rivers, who is on the money with crazy mechanics. Footwork is Mahomes' biggest hurdle, but just watch the strides he's made since starting preparing for the draft. Mahomes can at the very least be Jay Cutler 2.0 on arm talent alone. That's a great floor for any QB prospect, especially outside the top 3 or so picks. But Mahomes can be so much more than Cutler 2.0 if he lands with the right franchise.


Okay now, I'm not a Cutler fan by any stretch of the imagination but the guy has been an average to above average QB for the better part of a decade. You're saying absolute worst case scenario Mahomes starts for almost 10 years? Please. Cutler has had a rough last few years and left a bad memory of himself but this is a little out there.

and by saying "Cutler 2.0" im assuming you think he'll be even better than Cutler worst case scenario?


Given his accuracy issues, I would think Mahomes' worst case scenario is Brock Osweiler.


I won't go THAT far. Nobody is THAT bad. Laughing

I say his worst case scenario is Case Keenum - does some dazzling things off script, throws a exciting deep ball and plays a lot of good "sandlot" football. However, he can't stick to a script, can't make the short to intermediate throws, and will turn a three yard sack into a 15 yard sack/fumble recovery.
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EliteTexan80 wrote:
I wanna be a mod.

vastly over rated.
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Trentwannabe


Joined: 28 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming this Trubisky infatuation by the Bills is real, how worried or happy should I be if he's their selection and is able to sit behind Taylor for a year or so?
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Thank you NickChowaniec!

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justo


Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
Assuming this Trubisky infatuation by the Bills is real, how worried or happy should I be if he's their selection and is able to sit behind Taylor for a year or so?
Doug Whaley in Year 4 would have more ACC draft picks than non-ACC draft picks if he turns that card in. I'm more worried about that than anything else.
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Senor Mortgage


Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 2713
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
I think all of the QB's drafted in the first round are going to be busts.

This reminds me of 2011 where the QB's have obvious flaws but everyone is ignoring them because teams need QB's. And like 2011, I'm sure I'll be wrong about one of them; I just don't know which one.


This so much. I'd have Watson off my board (or a late round pick) because I don't think he has a NFL arm. Mahomes doesn't know how to play football. Kizer has slowest processing speed I've seen in years and isn't that accurate (my two most important QB traits). Mitch lacks experience and didn't play super well in big games/under pressure (aka looks good against bad competition) but he's the only one that I can do the mental gymnastics for as a first rounder. Peterman might be my favorite of the group but he may have Dalton upside.

As you said, I'll be wrong on one of those guys but with pretty much every other position (outside of maybe edge rush) full of really good prospects, I can't justify the low odds of a QB this year.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 59121
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crickett wrote:
I think all of the QB's drafted in the first round are going to be busts.

This reminds me of 2011 where the QB's have obvious flaws but everyone is ignoring them because teams need QB's. And like 2011, I'm sure I'll be wrong about one of them; I just don't know which one.


Agreed.

However, for some reason people think you have to gamble on a QB no matter what. That's how they justify making dumb decisions.

If you have a crap hand, you don't just double-down and go all in.
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Highboltage55


Joined: 27 Mar 2016
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the scoop on Kaaya? Lately people have been hyping up Webb, Peterman and most recently Dobbs while Kaaya is kind of becoming the forgotten man.

Obviously I don't expect him to be in consideration for the 1st Round (or 2nd either), but I would think he could be in the next tier of signal callers?

Seems like his stock is anywhere from the 3rd to 5th at the moment, but I am just basing this off what I read. I have seen people question his leadership, apparently he is a "statue" in the pocket (in addition to watching the rush, not keeping his eyes downfield) and doesn't have a cannon for an arm.

Schematically is his best fit in a WCO? Get him throwing in rhythm in the short to intermediate range with an occasional shot downfield (anti coryell). I wouldn't mind him as a potential successor / project to Rivers for the Chargers-I like the fact he is a pure passer and played in a Pro-Style system at Miami.

Your thoughts ?
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RayBringsPain


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 1170
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senor Mortgage wrote:
Crickett wrote:
I think all of the QB's drafted in the first round are going to be busts.

This reminds me of 2011 where the QB's have obvious flaws but everyone is ignoring them because teams need QB's. And like 2011, I'm sure I'll be wrong about one of them; I just don't know which one.


This so much. I'd have Watson off my board (or a late round pick) because I don't think he has a NFL arm. Mahomes doesn't know how to play football. Kizer has slowest processing speed I've seen in years and isn't that accurate (my two most important QB traits). Mitch lacks experience and didn't play super well in big games/under pressure (aka looks good against bad competition) but he's the only one that I can do the mental gymnastics for as a first rounder. Peterman might be my favorite of the group but he may have Dalton upside.

As you said, I'll be wrong on one of those guys but with pretty much every other position (outside of maybe edge rush) full of really good prospects, I can't justify the low odds of a QB this year.


I can hardly wait to see what GM's seal their fates by drafting Watson and Mahomes in the top 2 rounds. It's sad to see such stupidity repeated over and over.

Watson isn't really draftable knowing the velocity data. Mahomes has zero accuracy. If either actually get to play in a regular season game, both will be interception machines.
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I'd still vote LSU NC... Sorry.
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CalhounLambeau


Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 11639
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RayBringsPain wrote:
I can hardly wait to see what GM's seal their fates by drafting Watson and Mahomes in the top 2 rounds. It's sad to see such stupidity repeated over and over.

What other option do these general managers have?
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 69131
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CalhounLambeau wrote:
RayBringsPain wrote:
I can hardly wait to see what GM's seal their fates by drafting Watson and Mahomes in the top 2 rounds. It's sad to see such stupidity repeated over and over.

What other option do these general managers have?


Hope you don't get fired waiting for next year. Then again, if you draft either of those two guys, you realistically should have a plan for 2017 that doesn't include either one starting.

An option I like is Brett Hundley, if GB is willing to deal him.
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gah112


Joined: 30 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senor Mortgage wrote:
This so much. I'd have Watson off my board (or a late round pick) because I don't think he has a NFL arm. Mahomes doesn't know how to play football. Kizer has slowest processing speed I've seen in years and isn't that accurate (my two most important QB traits). Mitch lacks experience and didn't play super well in big games/under pressure (aka looks good against bad competition) but he's the only one that I can do the mental gymnastics for as a first rounder. Peterman might be my favorite of the group but he may have Dalton upside.

As you said, I'll be wrong on one of those guys but with pretty much every other position (outside of maybe edge rush) full of really good prospects, I can't justify the low odds of a QB this year.


Add to that Watson's decision-making which seems to be completely dictated by the defense's pre-snap look. NFL defensive coordinators do all kinds of things to confuse QBs pre-snap. Watson has been susceptible to this type of confusion at the college level and doesn't seem to move through reads quickly.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 59121
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senor Mortgage wrote:
Crickett wrote:
I think all of the QB's drafted in the first round are going to be busts.

This reminds me of 2011 where the QB's have obvious flaws but everyone is ignoring them because teams need QB's. And like 2011, I'm sure I'll be wrong about one of them; I just don't know which one.


This so much. I'd have Watson off my board (or a late round pick) because I don't think he has a NFL arm. Mahomes doesn't know how to play football. Kizer has slowest processing speed I've seen in years and isn't that accurate (my two most important QB traits). Mitch lacks experience and didn't play super well in big games/under pressure (aka looks good against bad competition) but he's the only one that I can do the mental gymnastics for as a first rounder. Peterman might be my favorite of the group but he may have Dalton upside.

As you said, I'll be wrong on one of those guys but with pretty much every other position (outside of maybe edge rush) full of really good prospects, I can't justify the low odds of a QB this year.


Watsons arm strength makes him borderline undraftable for me.
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VanS


Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 353
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Highboltage55 wrote:
What's the scoop on Kaaya? Lately people have been hyping up Webb, Peterman and most recently Dobbs while Kaaya is kind of becoming the forgotten man.

Obviously I don't expect him to be in consideration for the 1st Round (or 2nd either), but I would think he could be in the next tier of signal callers?

Seems like his stock is anywhere from the 3rd to 5th at the moment, but I am just basing this off what I read. I have seen people question his leadership, apparently he is a "statue" in the pocket (in addition to watching the rush, not keeping his eyes downfield) and doesn't have a cannon for an arm.

Schematically is his best fit in a WCO? Get him throwing in rhythm in the short to intermediate range with an occasional shot downfield (anti coryell). I wouldn't mind him as a potential successor / project to Rivers for the Chargers-I like the fact he is a pure passer and played in a Pro-Style system at Miami.

Your thoughts ?


The lack of buzz for Kaaya is bizarre to me. I think he goes in round 3 and whoever gets him will get a major steal. Reminds me of Matt Ryan. Will be a stud starter in the future.
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VanS wrote:
Highboltage55 wrote:
What's the scoop on Kaaya? Lately people have been hyping up Webb, Peterman and most recently Dobbs while Kaaya is kind of becoming the forgotten man.

Obviously I don't expect him to be in consideration for the 1st Round (or 2nd either), but I would think he could be in the next tier of signal callers?

Seems like his stock is anywhere from the 3rd to 5th at the moment, but I am just basing this off what I read. I have seen people question his leadership, apparently he is a "statue" in the pocket (in addition to watching the rush, not keeping his eyes downfield) and doesn't have a cannon for an arm.

Schematically is his best fit in a WCO? Get him throwing in rhythm in the short to intermediate range with an occasional shot downfield (anti coryell). I wouldn't mind him as a potential successor / project to Rivers for the Chargers-I like the fact he is a pure passer and played in a Pro-Style system at Miami.

Your thoughts ?


The lack of buzz for Kaaya is bizarre to me. I think he goes in round 3 and whoever gets him will get a major steal. Reminds me of Matt Ryan. Will be a stud starter in the future.


It's not bizarre. Kaaya is a boring prospect. He's not that different from Cody Kessler last year. Physically-limited game manager type who struggles mightily challenging teams in the intermediate and deep ranges.

He's not Matt Ryan at all.
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