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2017 QB Thread - Version II
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Epyon


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 448
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
The Bears have scouted Watson extensively. Including 2 different trips to Clemson during the season and sending everyone to his Pro Day and I mean everyone.

It would not shock me if he went 3.

It would also not shock me if they passed on a QB at 3.


Just the generalized trends I've been noticing from various forums/teams boards:

-I feel like all the QB needy teams at the top want to trade down to the 6-14 range so they can have their cake and eat it to... via getting a QB and a draft pick.... This is completely despite the fact that QBs are pretty much the only things worth trading UP for, so none of those top teams are going to have anyone to actually trade with. Most of these teams have absolutely no credible QB options if they pass either....

-I've seen literally every QB hungry team in the top 12 mock Mahomes to their team in the second round. and yeah.... That blatantly isn't going to happen for any of them. By my count 16 of the top 27 picks are teams that have at least moderate interest in grabbing a QB (1-4, 6-7,9-13,17, 20, 23,25,27)... so I'm not sure you're going to find ANY of the top 4 available in the second round, and if you did, I think Kizer might be the one who slides to the second on his inconsistency, and/or possibly Watson over concerns that his arm isn't NFL caliber

The point is, all the really terrible teams thinking they're going to skip on a QB and draft one in the second... could be in for a very rude awakening when they see Kaaya/Peterman/Webb as their only options left by the time their second rounder comes up.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 59120
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epyon wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
The Bears have scouted Watson extensively. Including 2 different trips to Clemson during the season and sending everyone to his Pro Day and I mean everyone.

It would not shock me if he went 3.

It would also not shock me if they passed on a QB at 3.


Just the generalized trends I've been noticing from various forums/teams boards:

-I feel like all the QB needy teams at the top want to trade down to the 6-14 range so they can have their cake and eat it to... via getting a QB and a draft pick.... This is completely despite the fact that QBs are pretty much the only things worth trading UP for, so none of those top teams are going to have anyone to actually trade with. Most of these teams have absolutely no credible QB options if they pass either....

-I've seen literally every QB hungry team in the top 12 mock Mahomes to their team in the second round. and yeah.... That blatantly isn't going to happen for any of them. By my count 16 of the top 27 picks are teams that have at least moderate interest in grabbing a QB (1-4, 6-7,9-13,17, 20, 23,25,27)... so I'm not sure you're going to find ANY of the top 4 available in the second round, and if you did, I think Kizer might be the one who slides to the second on his inconsistency, and/or possibly Watson over concerns that his arm isn't NFL caliber

The point is, all the really terrible teams thinking they're going to skip on a QB and draft one in the second... could be in for a very rude awakening when they see Kaaya/Peterman/Webb as their only options left by the time their second rounder comes up.


....and?

If they don't get who they want this year, wait until next year.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19458
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epyon wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
The Bears have scouted Watson extensively. Including 2 different trips to Clemson during the season and sending everyone to his Pro Day and I mean everyone.

It would not shock me if he went 3.

It would also not shock me if they passed on a QB at 3.


Just the generalized trends I've been noticing from various forums/teams boards:

-I feel like all the QB needy teams at the top want to trade down to the 6-14 range so they can have their cake and eat it to... via getting a QB and a draft pick.... This is completely despite the fact that QBs are pretty much the only things worth trading UP for, so none of those top teams are going to have anyone to actually trade with. Most of these teams have absolutely no credible QB options if they pass either....

-I've seen literally every QB hungry team in the top 12 mock Mahomes to their team in the second round. and yeah.... That blatantly isn't going to happen for any of them. By my count 16 of the top 27 picks are teams that have at least moderate interest in grabbing a QB (1-4, 6-7,9-13,17, 20, 23,25,27)... so I'm not sure you're going to find ANY of the top 4 available in the second round, and if you did, I think Kizer might be the one who slides to the second on his inconsistency, and/or possibly Watson over concerns that his arm isn't NFL caliber

The point is, all the really terrible teams thinking they're going to skip on a QB and draft one in the second... could be in for a very rude awakening when they see Kaaya/Peterman/Webb as their only options left by the time their second rounder comes up.


As a 49er fan, I"m perfectly okay with that. We signed Hoyer specifically to stopgap it for a year. I'll take my chances with getting Cousins or Jimmy G next year, or a quarterback in next year's class which I'm currently (still early with unknown entrants) higher on (again, early, depends on how it plays out, but given how low I am on this class, at the very least it'd be hard to be worse)
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Stupid NFL coaches and their need to reach for quarterbacks....
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Broncofan


Joined: 02 Dec 2013
Posts: 3598
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CLE's owner signed off on them spending 16m of their cap excess to get a 2018 2nd round pick. Not even this year.

This is new but clearly Haslem has bought into a long term plan. That type of security shouldn't force CLE to reach if they don't have to. Unlike a team like the Jets where their coach will be on the hot seat to win in 2017.

I wouldn't be surprised if CLE passes on QB at 1.12.
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steelpanther wrote:
This is like playing checkers with a pigeon. No matter how well you play, sooner or later the pigeon is going to crap on the board, then puff his chest out and strut around like he won something.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 59120
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broncofan wrote:
CLE's owner signed off on them spending 16m of their cap excess to get a 2018 2nd round pick. Not even this year.

This is new but clearly Haslem has bought into a long term plan. That type of security shouldn't force CLE to reach if they don't have to. Unlike a team like the Jets where their coach will be on the hot seat to win in 2017.

I wouldn't be surprised if CLE passes on QB at 1.12.


I wouldn't be shocked either. You don't pay 16 million for a future pick if you don't intend to let the guys who acquired the pick to actually use it.
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Epyon


Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 448
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The grass is always greener on next year's side of the QB fence, isn't it?

Last year at this time, people where saying to pass on Goff/Wentz because Watson and Kizer where coming out this year.

Look, teams gotta do what they gotta do, and you obviously don't want to waste a draft pick on a QB you have no faith in.... That said, at some point not taking a shot becomes as damaging or even more damaging than taking a shot and missing.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 59120
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epyon wrote:
The grass is always greener on next year's side of the QB fence, isn't it?

Last year at this time, people where saying to pass on Goff/Wentz because Watson and Kizer where coming out this year.

Look, teams gotta do what they gotta do, and you obviously don't want to waste a draft pick on a QB you have no faith in.... That said, at some point not taking a shot becomes as damaging or even more damaging than taking a shot and missing.


I would like some proof of this. Teams wasting years in a guy that sucks is FAR more damaging than just missing out on a guy.
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romo2bryant


Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 2391
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'm new to the party, or a bit late. but I watched a lot of Patty Mahomes today. So. WHAT THE HELL DO I THINK OF THIS?
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40997
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epyon wrote:
The grass is always greener on next year's side of the QB fence, isn't it?

Last year at this time, people where saying to pass on Goff/Wentz because Watson and Kizer where coming out this year.

Look, teams gotta do what they gotta do, and you obviously don't want to waste a draft pick on a QB you have no faith in.... That said, at some point not taking a shot becomes as damaging or even more damaging than taking a shot and missing.


I dont know, last year at this time it was all about Watson. He was suppose to be the stud QB and no one really else. Usually you hear about a couple QBs before the season to look at. This year it was Watson and Kizer and then Trub came out of no where.

Years past, you always hear about at least more than 3 QBs who could make a run for QB1 or #1 overall. Going into the 2015 college football season you have Goff, Jones, Hackenberg, Cook, Prescott, and Lynch. Year before that you have top QBs going into the season being Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Brett Hundley, Petty, Baylor. Year before that you had Johnny Manziel, Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, Teddy Bridgewater.

To me this is truly one of the down years. You had the hype mainly for Watson. Kizer was a sleeper, and Trub was a complete unknown. Kaaya and others were questions marks.

If you look at next year, you have 3 top tier guys already in Darnold, Rosen, and Allen. IMO if any of those 3 guys were in this class they would hands down by QB1 in this class.
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romo2bryant


Joined: 23 Jan 2011
Posts: 2391
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
The grass is always greener on next year's side of the QB fence, isn't it?

Last year at this time, people where saying to pass on Goff/Wentz because Watson and Kizer where coming out this year.

Look, teams gotta do what they gotta do, and you obviously don't want to waste a draft pick on a QB you have no faith in.... That said, at some point not taking a shot becomes as damaging or even more damaging than taking a shot and missing.


I dont know, last year at this time it was all about Watson. He was suppose to be the stud QB and no one really else. Usually you hear about a couple QBs before the season to look at. This year it was Watson and Kizer and then Trub came out of no where.

Years past, you always hear about at least more than 3 QBs who could make a run for QB1 or #1 overall. Going into the 2015 college football season you have Goff, Jones, Hackenberg, Cook, Prescott, and Lynch. Year before that you have top QBs going into the season being Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Brett Hundley, Petty, Baylor. Year before that you had Johnny Manziel, Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, Teddy Bridgewater.

To me this is truly one of the down years. You had the hype mainly for Watson. Kizer was a sleeper, and Trub was a complete unknown. Kaaya and others were questions marks.

If you look at next year, you have 3 top tier guys already in Darnold, Rosen, and Allen. IMO if any of those 3 guys were in this class they would hands down by QB1 in this class.


No love for Browning?
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 69128
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

buno67 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
The grass is always greener on next year's side of the QB fence, isn't it?

Last year at this time, people where saying to pass on Goff/Wentz because Watson and Kizer where coming out this year.

Look, teams gotta do what they gotta do, and you obviously don't want to waste a draft pick on a QB you have no faith in.... That said, at some point not taking a shot becomes as damaging or even more damaging than taking a shot and missing.


I dont know, last year at this time it was all about Watson. He was suppose to be the stud QB and no one really else. Usually you hear about a couple QBs before the season to look at. This year it was Watson and Kizer and then Trub came out of no where.

Years past, you always hear about at least more than 3 QBs who could make a run for QB1 or #1 overall. Going into the 2015 college football season you have Goff, Jones, Hackenberg, Cook, Prescott, and Lynch. Year before that you have top QBs going into the season being Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Brett Hundley, Petty, Baylor. Year before that you had Johnny Manziel, Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, Teddy Bridgewater.

To me this is truly one of the down years. You had the hype mainly for Watson. Kizer was a sleeper, and Trub was a complete unknown. Kaaya and others were questions marks.

If you look at next year, you have 3 top tier guys already in Darnold, Rosen, and Allen. IMO if any of those 3 guys were in this class they would hands down by QB1 in this class.


This is a down year. Next year does look like a strong year. But we also haven't broke those QBs down yet. Darnold isn't as good as some are hyping him up to be. He has a lot of potential, but he also has more flaws than people realize. We'll see if he progresses.

Next year looks so appealing because it looks like a deep class that could have a handful of guys emerge.
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buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 40997
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrry32 wrote:
buno67 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
The grass is always greener on next year's side of the QB fence, isn't it?

Last year at this time, people where saying to pass on Goff/Wentz because Watson and Kizer where coming out this year.

Look, teams gotta do what they gotta do, and you obviously don't want to waste a draft pick on a QB you have no faith in.... That said, at some point not taking a shot becomes as damaging or even more damaging than taking a shot and missing.


I dont know, last year at this time it was all about Watson. He was suppose to be the stud QB and no one really else. Usually you hear about a couple QBs before the season to look at. This year it was Watson and Kizer and then Trub came out of no where.

Years past, you always hear about at least more than 3 QBs who could make a run for QB1 or #1 overall. Going into the 2015 college football season you have Goff, Jones, Hackenberg, Cook, Prescott, and Lynch. Year before that you have top QBs going into the season being Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Brett Hundley, Petty, Baylor. Year before that you had Johnny Manziel, Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, Teddy Bridgewater.

To me this is truly one of the down years. You had the hype mainly for Watson. Kizer was a sleeper, and Trub was a complete unknown. Kaaya and others were questions marks.

If you look at next year, you have 3 top tier guys already in Darnold, Rosen, and Allen. IMO if any of those 3 guys were in this class they would hands down by QB1 in this class.


This is a down year. Next year does look like a strong year. But we also haven't broke those QBs down yet. Darnold isn't as good as some are hyping him up to be. He has a lot of potential, but he also has more flaws than people realize. We'll see if he progresses.

Next year looks so appealing because it looks like a deep class that could have a handful of guys emerge.


To me thats the point, this year's class didnt have the numbers really. IMO next year you have 3 legit QBs, this year you had one in Watson. He had two great years but didnt show enough improvement for the NFL. I know he tried running less but he still didnt throw the ball as well or made the right decisions. When he failed to live up, the entire class looks like a failure. With next year, the hype is all about Darnold right now and you cant blame it. The minute he took over for USC he looked like a stud. Like you said Jrry, the film hasnt been broken down on him yet but if he struggles, Rosen is right there to step in as QB1, if he falls than Josh Allen steps up. We potentially have 3 QBs fighting for QB1 2018 NFL draft. Where this past year with was suppose to be all about Watson.
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DalCowboyzRule


Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 23395
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

romo2bryant wrote:
I know I'm new to the party, or a bit late. but I watched a lot of Patty Mahomes today. So. WHAT THE HELL DO I THINK OF THIS?


It was fun as hell to watch every Saturday for 3 years, I'll tell you that much.

Unfortunately for me, that was about the only fun (Jakeem Grant and DeAndre Washington too tbf) I've had during that time too.
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Forge


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 19458
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epyon wrote:
The grass is always greener on next year's side of the QB fence, isn't it?

Last year at this time, people where saying to pass on Goff/Wentz because Watson and Kizer where coming out this year.

Look, teams gotta do what they gotta do, and you obviously don't want to waste a draft pick on a QB you have no faith in.... That said, at some point not taking a shot becomes as damaging or even more damaging than taking a shot and missing.


Not at all...I said last year that this year's quarterback class was going to be awful. I liked Goff as a first rounder last year, and I was a fan of Wentz to a point (didnt have a first on him). Next year, I'm particularly bullish on Allen as I watched a lot of him in preparation of him declaring this year (he would have been my #1 quarterback). It's rare that I don't see at least one first round quarterback in a draft class, but this is one of those years. Late seconds and thirds are my highest grades. That's hard to be worse than.

I agree that at some point you have to take a shot, but given how bad my team (49ers) is everywhere that shot does not need to be forced this year. You can wait a year (maybe even two if you're so inclined) and build up a better team around a young quarterback to give him an even better shot to succeed. Quarterback for the 49ers is just wholly unnecessary this year
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jrry32


Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 69128
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forge wrote:
Epyon wrote:
The grass is always greener on next year's side of the QB fence, isn't it?

Last year at this time, people where saying to pass on Goff/Wentz because Watson and Kizer where coming out this year.

Look, teams gotta do what they gotta do, and you obviously don't want to waste a draft pick on a QB you have no faith in.... That said, at some point not taking a shot becomes as damaging or even more damaging than taking a shot and missing.


Not at all...I said last year that this year's quarterback class was going to be awful. I liked Goff as a first rounder last year, and I was a fan of Wentz to a point (didnt have a first on him). Next year, I'm particularly bullish on Allen as I watched a lot of him in preparation of him declaring this year (he would have been my #1 quarterback). It's rare that I don't see at least one first round quarterback in a draft class, but this is one of those years. Late seconds and thirds are my highest grades. That's hard to be worse than.

I agree that at some point you have to take a shot, but given how bad my team (49ers) is everywhere that shot does not need to be forced this year. You can wait a year (maybe even two if you're so inclined) and build up a better team around a young quarterback to give him an even better shot to succeed. Quarterback for the 49ers is just wholly unnecessary this year


I agree. I'm not usually a grass is greener type, but the grass is definitely greener next year.
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