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WizardHawk


Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Heath is being underestimated.
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htfryar


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WizardHawk wrote:
I think Heath is being underestimated.


People are still hung up on him sucking as a rookie. He was forced into action before he was ready. He'He's come a long way since then. He'll be solid & will surprise people this season.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
I think Heath is being underestimated.


People are still hung up on him sucking as a rookie. He was forced into action before he was ready. He'He's come a long way since then. He'll be solid & will surprise people this season.


Don't allow your love for Bill Bates to skew your view on Heath. He sucks as a regular player on defense, but is very valuable on special teams.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
htfryar wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
I think Heath is being underestimated.


People are still hung up on him sucking as a rookie. He was forced into action before he was ready. He'He's come a long way since then. He'll be solid & will surprise people this season.


Don't allow your love for Bill Bates to skew your view on Heath. He sucks as a regular player on defense, but is very valuable on special teams.


Last year, he was rock solid in a limited role. I think he deserves the opportunity to have that role expanded. He's the only guy we have back there who has a knack for forcing a turnover.
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muncy54


Joined: 09 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaye Howard released for the Chiefs...would like to have him in Dallas
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htfryar


Joined: 14 Feb 2005
Posts: 12922
Location: Arkansas
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
htfryar wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
I think Heath is being underestimated.


People are still hung up on him sucking as a rookie. He was forced into action before he was ready. He'He's come a long way since then. He'll be solid & will surprise people this season.


Don't allow your love for Bill Bates to skew your view on Heath. He sucks as a regular player on defense, but is very valuable on special teams.


Last year, he was rock solid in a limited role. I think he deserves the opportunity to have that role expanded. He's the only guy we have back there who has a knack for forcing a turnover.


It wasn't just the playoff game either. He was always around the ball & made plays when given the opportunity. I want him to get a real shot this year.
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Northland


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
htfryar wrote:
WizardHawk wrote:
I think Heath is being underestimated.


People are still hung up on him sucking as a rookie. He was forced into action before he was ready. He'He's come a long way since then. He'll be solid & will surprise people this season.


Don't allow your love for Bill Bates to skew your view on Heath. He sucks as a regular player on defense, but is very valuable on special teams.


Last year, he was rock solid in a limited role. I think he deserves the opportunity to have that role expanded. He's the only guy we have back there who has a knack for forcing a turnover.


It wasn't just the playoff game either. He was always around the ball & made plays when given the opportunity. I want him to get a real shot this year.


Given the exodus from our secondary Heath will get his chance. I would say Heath was not as bad as I anticipated. I'm expecting a lot of competition in the secondary between holdovers and picks.
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resilient


Joined: 07 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW to Heath. First his body or "work" or evidence is very very limited. And he didn't really do much when he was playing. No one really has any idea what he may or may not become, BUT with that said, anyone assuming he is anything more than a training camp body might be wishful thinking at best.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

resilient wrote:
WOW to Heath. First his body or "work" or evidence is very very limited. And he didn't really do much when he was playing. No one really has any idea what he may or may not become, BUT with that said, anyone assuming he is anything more than a training camp body might be wishful thinking at best.


At worst he's a special teams ace. He clearly has a knack for the ball though, and has a little bit of upside as a backup safety. I think we can pencil him into the 53 man roster. I don't think he's "just a training camp body"
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matt79511


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
resilient wrote:
WOW to Heath. First his body or "work" or evidence is very very limited. And he didn't really do much when he was playing. No one really has any idea what he may or may not become, BUT with that said, anyone assuming he is anything more than a training camp body might be wishful thinking at best.


At worst he's a special teams ace. He clearly has a knack for the ball though, and has a little bit of upside as a backup safety. I think we can pencil him into the 53 man roster. I don't think he's "just a training camp body"


Heath is an irredeemable scrub even though he almost won us our playoff game, but we shouldn't draft legitimate competition for him, we should spend our first three picks on DLs despite already having 8 guys virtually locked into roster spots. /internetlogic
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt79511 wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
resilient wrote:
WOW to Heath. First his body or "work" or evidence is very very limited. And he didn't really do much when he was playing. No one really has any idea what he may or may not become, BUT with that said, anyone assuming he is anything more than a training camp body might be wishful thinking at best.


At worst he's a special teams ace. He clearly has a knack for the ball though, and has a little bit of upside as a backup safety. I think we can pencil him into the 53 man roster. I don't think he's "just a training camp body"


Heath is an irredeemable scrub even though he almost won us our playoff game, but we shouldn't draft legitimate competition for him, we should spend our first three picks on DLs despite already having 8 guys virtually locked into roster spots. /internetlogic


What part of "backup safety" makes you think I said we shouldn't draft competition for him? We still need a starter. Our safety group currently consists of Jones, Heath, Frazier, and Blanton. Obviously we need to bring in more talent.
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matt79511


Joined: 10 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flyingmonkey30 wrote:
matt79511 wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
resilient wrote:
WOW to Heath. First his body or "work" or evidence is very very limited. And he didn't really do much when he was playing. No one really has any idea what he may or may not become, BUT with that said, anyone assuming he is anything more than a training camp body might be wishful thinking at best.


At worst he's a special teams ace. He clearly has a knack for the ball though, and has a little bit of upside as a backup safety. I think we can pencil him into the 53 man roster. I don't think he's "just a training camp body"


Heath is an irredeemable scrub even though he almost won us our playoff game, but we shouldn't draft legitimate competition for him, we should spend our first three picks on DLs despite already having 8 guys virtually locked into roster spots. /internetlogic


What part of "backup safety" makes you think I said we shouldn't draft competition for him? We still need a starter. Our safety group currently consists of Jones, Heath, Frazier, and Blanton. Obviously we need to bring in more talent.


I was mocking resilient, who simultaneously thinks that Heath is "just a camp body" and that we shouldn't draft any DBs ever. You and I are in agreement.
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DaBoys


Joined: 18 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt79511 wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
resilient wrote:
WOW to Heath. First his body or "work" or evidence is very very limited. And he didn't really do much when he was playing. No one really has any idea what he may or may not become, BUT with that said, anyone assuming he is anything more than a training camp body might be wishful thinking at best.


At worst he's a special teams ace. He clearly has a knack for the ball though, and has a little bit of upside as a backup safety. I think we can pencil him into the 53 man roster. I don't think he's "just a training camp body"


Heath is an irredeemable scrub even though he almost won us our playoff game, but we shouldn't draft legitimate competition for him, we should spend our first three picks on DLs despite already having 8 guys virtually locked into roster spots. /internetlogic


I'm not as confident in our DL despite the number of bodies we have. DLaw played like 3 games last year due to suspension and back surgery, and then had ANOTHER surgery this offseason. Hard to expect much out of him in '17. Hell, Domontre Moore has more career sacks than Lawrence, let's stop giving him preseason credit like he's DWare. Moore btw is a head case on a 1 year deal. Irving was amazing for like 12 plays last year, and is also on a 1 year deal. Irving, imo, will never be a 10-15 sack per year guy, but a solid rotational DL with versatility. Gregory will miss the whole year again. Benson Mayowa led our elite 8 DEs last year with 6 whole sacks. Yet he is 245lbs. And only useful on passing downs. Then there's Tapper who is a complete unkown and actually played 5T in college, so theres more tape of Charles Harris playing 4-3 DE than there is Tapper. Tyrone Crawford is a 3T playing DE out of necessity, because our real DEs suck.

Nothing about that makes me feel we are set at DE, despite the bodies.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt79511 wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
matt79511 wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
resilient wrote:
WOW to Heath. First his body or "work" or evidence is very very limited. And he didn't really do much when he was playing. No one really has any idea what he may or may not become, BUT with that said, anyone assuming he is anything more than a training camp body might be wishful thinking at best.


At worst he's a special teams ace. He clearly has a knack for the ball though, and has a little bit of upside as a backup safety. I think we can pencil him into the 53 man roster. I don't think he's "just a training camp body"


Heath is an irredeemable scrub even though he almost won us our playoff game, but we shouldn't draft legitimate competition for him, we should spend our first three picks on DLs despite already having 8 guys virtually locked into roster spots. /internetlogic


What part of "backup safety" makes you think I said we shouldn't draft competition for him? We still need a starter. Our safety group currently consists of Jones, Heath, Frazier, and Blanton. Obviously we need to bring in more talent.


I was mocking resilient, who simultaneously thinks that Heath is "just a camp body" and that we shouldn't draft any DBs ever. You and I are in agreement.


My bad, it's still early, my brain isn't on yet
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaBoys wrote:
matt79511 wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
resilient wrote:
WOW to Heath. First his body or "work" or evidence is very very limited. And he didn't really do much when he was playing. No one really has any idea what he may or may not become, BUT with that said, anyone assuming he is anything more than a training camp body might be wishful thinking at best.


At worst he's a special teams ace. He clearly has a knack for the ball though, and has a little bit of upside as a backup safety. I think we can pencil him into the 53 man roster. I don't think he's "just a training camp body"


Heath is an irredeemable scrub even though he almost won us our playoff game, but we shouldn't draft legitimate competition for him, we should spend our first three picks on DLs despite already having 8 guys virtually locked into roster spots. /internetlogic


I'm not as confident in our DL despite the number of bodies we have. DLaw played like 3 games last year due to suspension and back surgery, and then had ANOTHER surgery this offseason. Hard to expect much out of him in '17. Hell, Domontre Moore has more career sacks than Lawrence, let's stop giving him preseason credit like he's DWare. Moore btw is a head case on a 1 year deal. Irving was amazing for like 12 plays last year, and is also on a 1 year deal. Irving, imo, will never be a 10-15 sack per year guy, but a solid rotational DL with versatility. Gregory will miss the whole year again. Benson Mayowa led our elite 8 DEs last year with 6 whole sacks. Yet he is 245lbs. And only useful on passing downs. Then there's Tapper who is a complete unkown and actually played 5T in college, so theres more tape of Charles Harris playing 4-3 DE than there is Tapper. Tyrone Crawford is a 3T playing DE out of necessity, because our real DEs suck.

Nothing about that makes me feel we are set at DE, despite the bodies.


Crawford will play more DT than DE this year, I'm sure. Collins and Irving are the only guys I feel good about for '18 and onward, but that doesn't change the fact that there are 6 or 7 other guys with spots on the team in '17 due to prior financial or draft investment. I'm all for using our next 2 or 3 first round picks on defensive linemen, but anyone who expects us to use the majority of our premium assets on the defensive front this year is being negligent of a secondary with barely 5 NFL players, a roster that isn't as deep as last year's in general, and the overall logistics of team building. If you spend all your picks on the same position group in the same draft, then their rookie contracts will be up at the same time. It makes it hard to structure second deals and balance your roster.
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