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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you are really arguing that our defense is killing us? You have got one of the strangest football minds I've ever seen.
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mayanfootball


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
you are really arguing that our defense is killing us? You have got one of the strangest football minds I've ever seen.
What about NFL 26th/rushing yardage are you pleased about? Chiefs are embarrased again AT HOME, in another playoff game, by the same team that demolished them earlier in the season. Oh yeah, that was with DJ playing too.
Yes, Sutton's defenses are killing us.

Our season record doesn't really reflect how many times we had to pull rabbits out of the hat. Chargers/home could have easily been a loss. Broncos/away, Falcons/away where more magic than rabbits were needed.

The reality is that we're probably a 9-7 team.
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onejayhawk


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be good with OG and ILB for the first two picks. However, that is not my first choice.

ILB, in particular, is available in FA. OG is not a dire need. LDT, Reid, Ehinger, Fulton is enough to get by. In either case, getting a future Pro-Bowler would be a nice upgrade. Better depth is always good and the best way to do that is by someone grabbing the top spot and forcing others back. That said, a swing OT is just as high a priority.

I lean to CB2 as the #1 need. With the amount of man coverage we play, another top CB would be very useful. Few of us had Marcus Peters targetted, but that has worked very well. We could use a running mate. Our current options are best at spot duty.

I would also be willing to take a QB in round 1. It's a bad QB draft, so chances are that even the round three guys go before our pick but it remains something to watch. We had a chance to take Russell Wilson in round 3 and Dak Prescott in round 4.

Mostly, BPA with an eye to upside over immediate help.

mayanfootball wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
you are really arguing that our defense is killing us? You have got one of the strangest football minds I've ever seen.
What about NFL 26th/rushing yardage are you pleased about? Chiefs are embarrased again AT HOME, in another playoff game, by the same team that demolished them earlier in the season. Oh yeah, that was with DJ playing too.
Yes, Sutton's defenses are killing us.

Our season record doesn't really reflect how many times we had to pull rabbits out of the hat. Chargers/home could have easily been a loss. Broncos/away, Falcons/away where more magic than rabbits were needed.

The reality is that we're probably a 9-7 team.

You're funny. We lose by two points, allowing 18 points all on FG and the defense is the problem.

I could give you 11-5. With the play we had, 10-6 is selling them short.

J
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mayanfootball wrote:
kingseanjohn wrote:
Our defense is built to defend the pass. It's a passing league. I don't want to change our entire defense because of one team/player.
Well we're 18th in giving up pass yards. Rush defense is worse. We're 26th. So we're not championship calibre here.
I agree it's a passing league. But you can't let a L.Bell or E.Elliott get 7-9yds/carry either.
There's no "law" that says Houston/Ford can't be a part of a 5 man front to rush the passer. NFL teams jam the box all the time.

You guys love the status quo I guess. How about offering up possible solutions. Bob Sutton's defenses are killing us.


If you want a 5 man front, you want a 3-4, not a 4-3...

When you suggest a 4-3, you're taking Houston and Ford OFF of the line of scrimmage. Not putting more men ON the line of scrimmage. Even if you go 4-3 under like Seattle or Denver, you're still pulling one of those two off the line to play weakside LB. You're delegating either Ford or Houston to play like K.J. Wright.

If you want both Houston and Ford to be on the line in a 5 man front in a 4-3 scheme, you're actually suggesting a 4-3 under where one of the two plays DE, and the other plays OLB like Von Miller or Bruce Irvin. Which is fine, but schematically, that's exactly the same as what we already do in base, you're just having one of our current OLBs put their hand in the dirt and call themselves a DE instead of an OLB.

Denver, for instance, plays a lot of 4-3 under. And schematically, they have the same responsibilities as our guys do in base 3-4. Ware does the same thing that Ford/Hali do. Miller does the same things that Houston does. Their ILB and weakside OLB function the same as our two ILBs. Their 2 DTs and larger DE function the same as our 2 DEs and 1 NT.
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samsel23


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm soo confused on here sometimes?

There were people complaining about our DL getting doubled teamed all first half, so you know what we did? We switched to more 3 man front's in the 2nd half. This took care of the running game problem.

The problem with the 3 man front is you can't rush Houston and Ford every time... so they will have to drop to the flats to cover. Unless you just want them standing around??? Or unless you want to Rush 5 players, which idk why you would against Le'Veon Bell (he'll kill you in the passing game).


The biggest kicker to me is people are complaining about Houston and Ford being in coverage against Pit,,,, well I sure as heck didn't see them accomplishing anything when they were rushing the passer in the first half.


You complain about not making adjustments, but we did make adjustments.... the reason it didn't work is because we got outplayed and there OL totally dominated our front 7 (or 6, or 5, or 4 whatever you guys want to play).

You can blame Sutton if you want, but he did make adjustments... We just didn't make any plays up front.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mayanfootball wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
you are really arguing that our defense is killing us? You have got one of the strangest football minds I've ever seen.
What about NFL 26th/rushing yardage are you pleased about? Chiefs are embarrased again AT HOME, in another playoff game, by the same team that demolished them earlier in the season. Oh yeah, that was with DJ playing too.
Yes, Sutton's defenses are killing us.

Our season record doesn't really reflect how many times we had to pull rabbits out of the hat. Chargers/home could have easily been a loss. Broncos/away, Falcons/away where more magic than rabbits were needed.

The reality is that we're probably a 9-7 team.


There was no magic in those games. There was great players making great plays. Nothing lucky. If anything we overcame some bad officiating vs the donkeys and used our depth to overcome injuries. And the donkeys game could've been a blowout if the refs would've just called a couple holds on their big plays or if Mitchell was playing at that point.
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Your Denver hatred is borderline pathological. I don't think my girlfriend cheating on me would cause me as much hate as you have for Denver.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

samsel23 wrote:
I'm soo confused on here sometimes?

There were people complaining about our DL getting doubled teamed all first half, so you know what we did? We switched to more 3 man front's in the 2nd half. This took care of the running game problem.

The problem with the 3 man front is you can't rush Houston and Ford every time... so they will have to drop to the flats to cover. Unless you just want them standing around??? Or unless you want to Rush 5 players, which idk why you would against Le'Veon Bell (he'll kill you in the passing game).


The biggest kicker to me is people are complaining about Houston and Ford being in coverage against Pit,,,, well I sure as heck didn't see them accomplishing anything when they were rushing the passer in the first half.


You complain about not making adjustments, but we did make adjustments.... the reason it didn't work is because we got outplayed and there OL totally dominated our front 7 (or 6, or 5, or 4 whatever you guys want to play).

You can blame Sutton if you want, but he did make adjustments... We just didn't make any plays up front.

Yeah we need more playmakers in the front 7, particularly at DL. At this point it's Chris Jones, and that's about it. Houston hopefully comes back healthier next season, but I'd still like to see another outside rusher added for insurance.

Especially if we're gonna be bland and not blitz.

But people blaming defense, I see it as a total team loss. From coaching, to offense, defense, special teams, heck throw the front office in there as well(why is Fulton still here?!?)

Took a group effort to barely lose.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the DL has an abundance of disruptive guys when healthy...Jones, Howard, Poe, RNR. Another wouldn't hurt, but how many guys do we need when we usually only play 2 at a time.
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Rearviewmirror


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i love how people act like it's so easy to stop both Bell and Antonio Brown, like there's just a simple scheme to just magically shut down the 2 best position players in the entire NFL. The Defense did it's job. All we had to do was score 19 points and the offense couldn't do it. Give me a break. If you would have told me before the game. Your defense is gonna hold Pitt to 18, I'd have said we win the game by more than a TD. No. The offense was the problem. Drops, missed wide open shots by alex, bad blocking by the OL, Ware/West just not being very good, and Kelce played pretty damn poorly and Maclin did absolutely nothing. I can't even hate on the playcalling really, the players just failed to execute on all but the first possesion. Healthy Jamaal Charles that can make something happen with avg OL play and we win that game, but we didn't have anybody make a play on offense.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
I think the DL has an abundance of disruptive guys when healthy...Jones, Howard, Poe, RNR. Another wouldn't hurt, but how many guys do we need when we usually only play 2 at a time.


Poe is pretty rarely disruptive anymore. He's no longer that guy. He'll eat a double team. He'll get the occasional PD or big push. But he had maybe 1 or 2 actual disruptive plays per game this year. And that's probably being generous. PFF had him as our lowest graded front 7 player. He gets a pass because he's a fan favorite and those offensive plays are lots of fun, but he did not have a productive or disruptive season this year. And he clearly must not have been that good as a space eater either, given how often our ILBs were getting blocked and how poor our interior run defense was. Calling him disruptive after this season is just foolish.

Howard was a little better, but missed half the season.

RNR is unquestionably disruptive, but also disrupts himself a bit too often.

A lot of us overrate our talent, honestly. Particularly on the DL. And offensive skill positions, at times. Our DL is good, but if you really think Houston, Ford, Hali, RNR, Jones, Poe, and Howard were ALL disruptive players this year, then we should've been top 10 in sacks without a defensive coordinator at all.

For whatever reason, it's easier for people to blame coaches than it is to acknowledge that sometimes good players have bad games or bad plays or bad years, or sometimes the players just aren't THAT good.
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valkrei


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rearviewmirror wrote:
i love how people act like it's so easy to stop both Bell and Antonio Brown, like there's just a simple scheme to just magically shut down the 2 best position players in the entire NFL. The Defense did it's job. All we had to do was score 19 points and the offense couldn't do it. Give me a break. If you would have told me before the game. Your defense is gonna hold Pitt to 18, I'd have said we win the game by more than a TD. No. The offense was the problem. Drops, missed wide open shots by alex, bad blocking by the OL, Ware/West just not being very good, and Kelce played pretty damn poorly and Maclin did absolutely nothing. I can't even hate on the playcalling really, the players just failed to execute on all but the first possesion. Healthy Jamaal Charles that can make something happen with avg OL play and we win that game, but we didn't have anybody make a play on offense.


As far has holding to points sure, we did ok. But I am sorry we got to make them punt now and then also. This draft we need 1. Draft the QBOF, and maybe 2 ILB. Its time to get some help against the run. If we can fix that maybe we wont play so soft in the secondary.

Sutton is still a chump though.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

valkrei wrote:
Rearviewmirror wrote:
i love how people act like it's so easy to stop both Bell and Antonio Brown, like there's just a simple scheme to just magically shut down the 2 best position players in the entire NFL. The Defense did it's job. All we had to do was score 19 points and the offense couldn't do it. Give me a break. If you would have told me before the game. Your defense is gonna hold Pitt to 18, I'd have said we win the game by more than a TD. No. The offense was the problem. Drops, missed wide open shots by alex, bad blocking by the OL, Ware/West just not being very good, and Kelce played pretty damn poorly and Maclin did absolutely nothing. I can't even hate on the playcalling really, the players just failed to execute on all but the first possesion. Healthy Jamaal Charles that can make something happen with avg OL play and we win that game, but we didn't have anybody make a play on offense.


As far has holding to points sure, we did ok. But I am sorry we got to make them punt now and then also. This draft we need 1. Draft the QBOF, and maybe 2 ILB. Its time to get some help against the run. If we can fix that maybe we wont play so soft in the secondary.

Sutton is still a chump though.

See this is why I say it was a complete team loss. We allowed 18 points, but couldn't score 19. On the flip side the Steelers only punted once, that's almost as bad as the Vermeil defenses. And it's not like we're playing Prime Peyton Manning either.

Besides the no touch downs, Haley did pretty well scheming on us. Kept running Bell, repeatedly. Attacked our weaknesses. Suttons inability to adjust before halftime bites us again.

I knew we'd lose though once I saw all those drops. Like the Giants' playoff game all over again. Drop, drop, drop, iirc aren't we the 2nd worst team in drops?

Combine that with bad trench play, couldn't block on the OL. Couldn't get any push, and routinely got handled on the defense. Top it off with bad 3rd down plays.

I read something, goes, "Can't hide your warts in the playoffs" unfortunately it was too little too late, and when the refs aren't on your side either well you probably lose those games.
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mayanfootball


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Draft the QBOF, and maybe 2 ILB. Its time to get some help against the run.
I could be happy with this. It's more do-able and realistic than moving us to a 4-3. Just don't stick us with a 2 DT front and expect us to stop the run.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

double post
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BroncosFan2010 wrote:

Your Denver hatred is borderline pathological. I don't think my girlfriend cheating on me would cause me as much hate as you have for Denver.


Last edited by ArrowheadRage58 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
ArrowheadRage58 wrote:
I think the DL has an abundance of disruptive guys when healthy...Jones, Howard, Poe, RNR. Another wouldn't hurt, but how many guys do we need when we usually only play 2 at a time.


Poe is pretty rarely disruptive anymore. He's no longer that guy. He'll eat a double team. He'll get the occasional PD or big push. But he had maybe 1 or 2 actual disruptive plays per game this year. And that's probably being generous. PFF had him as our lowest graded front 7 player. He gets a pass because he's a fan favorite and those offensive plays are lots of fun, but he did not have a productive or disruptive season this year. And he clearly must not have been that good as a space eater either, given how often our ILBs were getting blocked and how poor our interior run defense was. Calling him disruptive after this season is just foolish.

Howard was a little better, but missed half the season.

RNR is unquestionably disruptive, but also disrupts himself a bit too often.

A lot of us overrate our talent, honestly. Particularly on the DL. And offensive skill positions, at times. Our DL is good, but if you really think Houston, Ford, Hali, RNR, Jones, Poe, and Howard were ALL disruptive players this year, then we should've been top 10 in sacks without a defensive coordinator at all.

For whatever reason, it's easier for people to blame coaches than it is to acknowledge that sometimes good players have bad games or bad plays or bad years, or sometimes the players just aren't THAT good.


Look I agree about Poe and I dont believe Tamba was disruptive either. Others were hurt part time. On the other hand you seem to be saying we are what our production shows and the coaches did all they could. Sacks can be misleading but 28th isnt good. Pressures is more vital and we were like 23rd...

So would you say the front 7 talent/skill level we put on the field this year was about 25th in the league?
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Your Denver hatred is borderline pathological. I don't think my girlfriend cheating on me would cause me as much hate as you have for Denver.
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