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Leslie Frazier Hired as Bills DC and Rick Dennison as OC
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RavensDefense3


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 2298
Location: Baltimore
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marshawn lynch wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
As we've discussed in our Ravens forum, it's hard to tell what type of impact Frazier himself had.

Our pass defense improved for sure. But, that can also be contributed to Weddle coming in, Webb moving to FS and Tavon Young stepping up. But, at the same time, with Tavon stepping up as a 4th round rookie, it's highly likely that coaching helped make that happen. But, then at the same same time, guys like Shareece Wright and Jerraud Powers were both terrible despite showing different last season.

So, it's tough to say. I think he did a decent enough job, but I don't see this as a huge loss for us. But I guess time will tell. If it takes losing Frazier to also get rid of Castillo, I'm on board Very Happy


Well if Webb moved positions to FS.... thats decided by coaches. Hence a coaching move. And im sure the DB coach had his opinion beforw the change was made. And Weddle as good as he is, is getting older. So i doubt adding an aging safety was reason for improvement. Im sure it comtributed but its not like Ravens added a player in their prime that improved their secondary. There was definetly coaching involved that helped the Ravens improve. Just a matter of how much is up to debate.


Webb's move to safety was pretty clear before Frazier came to Baltimore. He even played a bit there before Frazier.

Weddle has been a long time top 5 safety in the league. That certainly didn't change last season. 31 isn't that old for a safety either. You see guys like Woodson moving to safety at 35. Not to mention Weddle himself has said that he had one of his best seasons ever with the Ravens.
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dcarey20


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

marshawn lynch wrote:
[Well if Webb moved positions to FS.... thats decided by coaches. Hence a coaching move. And im sure the DB coach had his opinion beforw the change was made. And Weddle as good as he is, is getting older. So i doubt adding an aging safety was reason for improvement. Im sure it comtributed but its not like Ravens added a player in their prime that improved their secondary. There was definetly coaching involved that helped the Ravens improve. Just a matter of how much is up to debate.


It was pretty huge actually. Weddle was probably the main reason for the improvement by the entire defense as a whole, not even just the secondary. He had a pretty great season.

I think it's a fine move for Buffalo - he's a former head coach who seems to be well-respected. But to be quite honest I think our defense & secondary plays out exactly the same way regardless of whether Frazier was in the fold for us or not.
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BBando


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
god awful during his time with the Vikings, hopefully he has improved. a super nice guy, but couldn't motivate anyone.
Same in Tampa. But maybe it was Lovie who was awful too.
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Gore Whore 21


Joined: 15 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
marshawn lynch wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
As we've discussed in our Ravens forum, it's hard to tell what type of impact Frazier himself had.

Our pass defense improved for sure. But, that can also be contributed to Weddle coming in, Webb moving to FS and Tavon Young stepping up. But, at the same time, with Tavon stepping up as a 4th round rookie, it's highly likely that coaching helped make that happen. But, then at the same same time, guys like Shareece Wright and Jerraud Powers were both terrible despite showing different last season.

So, it's tough to say. I think he did a decent enough job, but I don't see this as a huge loss for us. But I guess time will tell. If it takes losing Frazier to also get rid of Castillo, I'm on board Very Happy


Well if Webb moved positions to FS.... thats decided by coaches. Hence a coaching move. And im sure the DB coach had his opinion beforw the change was made. And Weddle as good as he is, is getting older. So i doubt adding an aging safety was reason for improvement. Im sure it comtributed but its not like Ravens added a player in their prime that improved their secondary. There was definetly coaching involved that helped the Ravens improve. Just a matter of how much is up to debate.


Webb was tried at FS for the last 4 games of 2015, before Frazier got there. So, that really wasn't Frazier's input at all.

And Weddle played like a pro bowl S for us this season, so yes, having a highly productive "aging" safety back there instead of Kendrick Lewis and/or 2015 Will Hill is absolutely a sizeable upgrade.

I'm not arguing that coaching didn't play a part. I'm not trying to downplay Frazier just because he left. I think he played a large part in Tavon Young playing so well. But if I give him credit there, you have to also criticize him for Shareece Wright playing sloppy all year too. Webb and Weddle are both long-time veterans in the league and so I kind of don't count them as strongly as the younger guys. But, as I said, it's hard to tell one way or the other as to what impact Frazier had, however, as long as Castillo is gone too, I'll take it either way.


I don't think using Shareece Wright to judge anyone is fair. Wright is absolute garbage.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gore Whore 21 wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
marshawn lynch wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
As we've discussed in our Ravens forum, it's hard to tell what type of impact Frazier himself had.

Our pass defense improved for sure. But, that can also be contributed to Weddle coming in, Webb moving to FS and Tavon Young stepping up. But, at the same time, with Tavon stepping up as a 4th round rookie, it's highly likely that coaching helped make that happen. But, then at the same same time, guys like Shareece Wright and Jerraud Powers were both terrible despite showing different last season.

So, it's tough to say. I think he did a decent enough job, but I don't see this as a huge loss for us. But I guess time will tell. If it takes losing Frazier to also get rid of Castillo, I'm on board Very Happy


Well if Webb moved positions to FS.... thats decided by coaches. Hence a coaching move. And im sure the DB coach had his opinion beforw the change was made. And Weddle as good as he is, is getting older. So i doubt adding an aging safety was reason for improvement. Im sure it comtributed but its not like Ravens added a player in their prime that improved their secondary. There was definetly coaching involved that helped the Ravens improve. Just a matter of how much is up to debate.


Webb was tried at FS for the last 4 games of 2015, before Frazier got there. So, that really wasn't Frazier's input at all.

And Weddle played like a pro bowl S for us this season, so yes, having a highly productive "aging" safety back there instead of Kendrick Lewis and/or 2015 Will Hill is absolutely a sizeable upgrade.

I'm not arguing that coaching didn't play a part. I'm not trying to downplay Frazier just because he left. I think he played a large part in Tavon Young playing so well. But if I give him credit there, you have to also criticize him for Shareece Wright playing sloppy all year too. Webb and Weddle are both long-time veterans in the league and so I kind of don't count them as strongly as the younger guys. But, as I said, it's hard to tell one way or the other as to what impact Frazier had, however, as long as Castillo is gone too, I'll take it either way.


I don't think using Shareece Wright to judge anyone is fair. Wright is absolute garbage.


I don't disagree, but Wright was actually ok for us in 2015 when he was here. Enough to sign long-term. Then he took a step back in his fundamentals and was awful again in 2016.
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bills coach Sean McDermott found his defensive coordinator in Leslie Frazier and one of Frazier’s former bosses is reportedly at the top of the list of offensive coordinator candidates in Buffalo. Ian Rapoport of NFL Media reports that the team is interested in Chiefs co-offensive coordinator Brad Childress.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/15/report-brad-childress-greg-olson-offensive-coordinator-candidates-in-buffalo/


what the...?

neither of these guys were successful with the Vikings, i'll say that.
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TitanLegend


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Bills coach Sean McDermott found his defensive coordinator in Leslie Frazier and one of Frazier’s former bosses is reportedly at the top of the list of offensive coordinator candidates in Buffalo. Ian Rapoport of NFL Media reports that the team is interested in Chiefs co-offensive coordinator Brad Childress.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/15/report-brad-childress-greg-olson-offensive-coordinator-candidates-in-buffalo/


what the...?

neither of these guys were successful with the Vikings, i'll say that.


Would also concern me that his only success as an offensive coordinator has come under Andy Reid.
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Trentwannabe


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Bills coach Sean McDermott found his defensive coordinator in Leslie Frazier and one of Frazier’s former bosses is reportedly at the top of the list of offensive coordinator candidates in Buffalo. Ian Rapoport of NFL Media reports that the team is interested in Chiefs co-offensive coordinator Brad Childress.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/15/report-brad-childress-greg-olson-offensive-coordinator-candidates-in-buffalo/


what the...?

neither of these guys were successful with the Vikings, i'll say that.



I called this a few weeks ago even before McDermott got the job.

I don't know much about Childress as a playcaller but I can't blame McDermott for bringing in guys as coordinators who are a) former HC and b) he knows he can work with.
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KingOfTheDot


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loving this.
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bigbadbuff23835


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheDot wrote:
Loving this.


Why?
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trentwannabe wrote:
I don't know much about Childress as a playcaller but I can't blame McDermott for bringing in guys as coordinators who are a) former HC and b) he knows he can work with.

well... other than you have to consider that Frazier became a head coach (and failed at it) only because Childress was so horrible as a head coach.

so yes, maybe they had the titles, but not the accomplishments.
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scar988


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

McDermott's wild and crazy blitzing scheme with Fraziers disguised coverage concepts could be a ton of fun together.
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marshawn lynch


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Trentwannabe wrote:
I don't know much about Childress as a playcaller but I can't blame McDermott for bringing in guys as coordinators who are a) former HC and b) he knows he can work with.

well... other than you have to consider that Frazier became a head coach (and failed at it) only because Childress was so horrible as a head coach.

so yes, maybe they had the titles, but not the accomplishments.


I take a HC success record very minimally when it comes to hiring coordinators. There are so many terrible HC who make great coordinators and vice versa.
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SemperFeist


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

scar988 wrote:
McDermott's wild and crazy blitzing scheme with Fraziers disguised coverage concepts could be a ton of fun together.

There's absolutely no such thing as a disguised coverage concept anywhere in Frazier's playbook. None.

The word blitz, and stunt, also are missing from his vocabulary.
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OleXmad


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a fan of Frazier (He got screwed over in Minnesota by Spielman) and the work he can do with defensive backs and NFL defenses this is a solid hire, What the bills do at OC/QB will decide where they're medicore or go back to the basement.
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