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Coughlin as VP of Football Operations

 
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: Coughlin as VP of Football Operations Reply with quote

Late on this one, but this is a incredibly significant move that deserves its own thread.

It looks like this is essentially a demotion for Dave Caldwell, who despite much fanfare for moves has yet to build a contender.

Shad Khan seemingly understood that his staff had been largely incapable of doing some things necessary towards building a sustained winner. As such, he brought in one of the most brilliant coaches of the last 20 years to run the team.

Questions circle whether the last few years in New York showed that the game had passed Coughlin by. It seemed, to me at least, on the coaching side, he had lost his touch. However when it came to personell and getting guys where they belonged, Coughlin was as sharp as ever from what I saw. Similar to how *The Tuna* survived by bringing in talent and trusting his coordinators in Dallas and then as a head of the staff in Miami, Coughlin will need to make a similar transition to make Jacksonville a premier franchise.

Coughlin brings a hard nosed, no nonsense accountability to the franchise at the very top that has been missing at least since Shad Khan took over ownership and probably much longer during Weaver's final years.

In his years in Jacksonville, Coughlin struggled incredibly with cap management. However, he recognized this issue when he went to New York and specifically asked that he not be involved in that aspect of the team. A staff that includes one of the best capologists on the planet with John Idzik should be able provide the support necessary to allow Coughlin a similar structure to his operations this time around in Jacksonville.

There are some questions on whether or not Coughlin believes in Blake Bortles as a long term starter, as reports surfaced during the hiring process that he was not a fan. However the retaining of Marrone and Hackett would suggest he's willing to work with Bortles at least in the short term.

Coughlin is a bit old school in his approach to team building, at least insofar as structure is concerned. For those too young to really have first hand knowldledge of the old Jaguars teams, think the current Cowboys for how Tom likes his teams to be built; great in the trenches, and a strong run game to support his pass game. Dalvin Cook should be flying up the list of possible incoming players to be drafted at #4.

Coughlin, while hard nosed and unwavering in his expectations, has always given the vibe of one who is willing to listen and accept new information into his viewpoint. He's not an analytics guy, but if the analytics clearly show something, he seems like the type to alter his beliefs to accept those hat information.

I've always loved Coughlin and was so disappointed when he left. But the prodigal son of Jacksonville has returned. Hopefully this is the move that changes the direction of the franchise from laughing stock to perennial powerhouse.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same ol' Coughlin. Moved up his introduction by 5 minutes. ❤️️
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cant wait to see the presser and hear what his role is exactly.

Im sure Dave does a lot of the dirty work for the most part and everything is run by TC.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
Cant wait to see the presser and hear what his role is exactly.

Im sure Dave does a lot of the dirty work for the most part and everything is run by TC.
I feel like the most intelligent way would be for Caldwell to basically do the same job with scouting that he's always done. But instead of having the final say, Caldwell's department, Marrone's department, and Tony's department would all give their opinions, ideas and things to Coughlin. Coughlin would then be in charge of taking that information given, using that information alongside his own scouting and ideas, and applying that all to the vision mapped out for the team.


So in very, very oversimplified terms:

Tony would give Coughlin data about what works, what doesn't work, and which players are high boom/bust potential based on data.

Dave would scout players and come back with who he thinks is good and bad.

Doug would give a list of what he wants and needs from players to be successful.

Counghlin would oversee all that and put it all together into a cohesive plan.
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Jags


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
.Buzz wrote:
Cant wait to see the presser and hear what his role is exactly.

Im sure Dave does a lot of the dirty work for the most part and everything is run by TC.
I feel like the most intelligent way would be for Caldwell to basically do the same job with scouting that he's always done. But instead of having the final say, Caldwell's department, Marrone's department, and Tony's department would all give their opinions, ideas and things to Coughlin. Coughlin would then be in charge of taking that information given, using that information alongside his own scouting and ideas, and applying that all to the vision mapped out for the team.


So in very, very oversimplified terms:

Tony would give Coughlin data about what works, what doesn't work, and which players are high boom/bust potential based on data.

Dave would scout players and come back with who he thinks is good and bad.

Doug would give a list of what he wants and needs from players to be successful.

Counghlin would oversee all that and put it all together into a cohesive plan.


That sounds beautiful. This would be the ideal situation.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave's problems haven't necessarily been his scouting. His mistakes have been widely noted as mistakes made across the league. Perceptions on Fowler, Blake and Joeckel were consistent in the NFL circles enough so to say that he might not be awful compared to his peers. The issue has seemed to be the high level thinking, the taking of data to push against his own viewpoint, and taking data and expanding on what it tells you. It may have been a case of Peter principle. Taking that out of his hand and giving it to Coughlin gives an opportunity for Dave to show whether or not he can be effective in the role of purely a talent evaluator. I'm not sure whether he's good enough in that role or not, but the effective demotion in his responsibility is a necessary step forward, because he clearly lacked the high level thinking to be the top guy.
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JaguarCrazy2832


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So excited for this move!!
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AngryPirate


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coughlin will have final say on 53 man roster
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How amazing and refreshing was it to have Coughlin's attitude and vision back here in Jacksonville?

That quote of saying "If we aren't here for winning, why the hell are we even here? Theren's nothing else."

That's why I think things will be different this time around. No more "just get better" BS mentality.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Brent Martineau ‏@BrentASJax 15s16 seconds ago
Coughlin: "is that going to be a focus? What the hell else is there. This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."


This is the exact quote.

Man I love Tom.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.Buzz wrote:
Quote:
Brent Martineau ‏@BrentASJax 15s16 seconds ago
Coughlin: "is that going to be a focus? What the hell else is there. This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."


This is the exact quote.

Man I love Tom.
"We're trying to win today. Who's gonna get the better lunch."
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the attitude he brings and obviously have fond memories of the guy...but i'm fairly skeptical about how great a move this really is at this point.

As mentioned, it really seemed the game had started to pass him by as a HC in New York. I think at least a part of that was really in the way players/personnel are handled. He still seems very "old school" in the way he approaches that. And while the Jaguars could certainly use a heavy dose of "earned - not given", i have a hard time reconciling that with the way the league is going in terms of how crucial it is now more than ever, to have young talent making an impact right away (while they're on their affordable rookie deals).

I'm just not sure how well his conception of "team building" really fits with today's game. It worries me a bit that this seemed to me, to be a significant part of game passing him by.

I also worry that we're starting to get a "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario here. That doesn't often work as smoothly as it does on paper - too many egos involved, too much conflicting information tugging in every direction. The best run franchises have an overall singularity of vision that this group doesn't seem to have, and likely won't be developing by adding another voice (with his own firm ideas and convictions on teambuilding) at the top.

I get that there are some concerns about whether or not Caldwell is "the guy" to build this team into a contender (or even whether he's any good at his job at all). Those are fair questions, and i have some real reservations on that myself. However, if you don't think Caldwell can do the job...just fire him and bring in a GM who you think can do the job. Bringing in another nebulous "top football decisionmaker type guy" like Coughlin is just sort of clouding the issue. Especially when it's someone with some pretty firm ideas on how a football team ought to be run (like Coughlin).


I guess we'll see how it ultimately works out. But to me it reeks of dysfunction blanketed in a happy veneer of nostalgia.
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nicky43


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi gang. I'm a new poster and a giant Tom Coughlin fan. We are blessed to have him back running the show. On top of his vast football knowledge he will put in 200% every day and the best thing about Tom is a good and smart as he is, he always works and studies to become better. He is not a "Know it All" type of person at all.

He goes to workouts and studies the player and will be a great addition to draft team.

Thank you Jacksonville for this terrific move.
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