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Post game GB 38-NYG 13: Pack punish playoff posers edition
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Is Aaron Rodgers good?
God
27%
 27%  [ 10 ]
Only in the 2nd half
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
He's good
13%
 13%  [ 5 ]
Sub him after long completions for stamina
52%
 52%  [ 19 ]
Total Votes : 36

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Shanedorf


Joined: 18 Mar 2014
Posts: 1415
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

caught a snippet of Inside the NFL with Phil Simms and Boomer Esiason
They show a clip of Cobb returning to the sideline after the Hail Mary

Cobb said:" I lost the ball in the lights and I didn't see it till it hit my hands"

When Rodgers launches the ball into a low-earth orbit, its coming straight down and most defenders aren't used to tracking it. They are used to tracking a horizontal ball and having the horizon as a reference point in their peripheral view. Staring straight up with no horizon in sight makes it a much tougher task to judge where the ball is coming down.
.
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Stevein2012


Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Posts: 1661
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shanedorf wrote:
caught a snippet of Inside the NFL with Phil Simms and Boomer Esiason
They show a clip of Cobb returning to the sideline after the Hail Mary

Cobb said:" I lost the ball in the lights and I didn't see it till it hit my hands"

When Rodgers launches the ball into a low-earth orbit, its coming straight down and most defenders aren't used to tracking it. They are used to tracking a horizontal ball and having the horizon as a reference point in their peripheral view. Staring straight up with no horizon in sight makes it a much tougher task to judge where the ball is coming down.
.


When he caught that all I could think was that it looked like a 60 yard handoff
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 11626
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm excited to see how far Kenny Clark has come. It'll be a great battle between Daniels/Guion/Clark and their nasty interior.

I have a general expectation that our defensive line elevates their game enough to keep us in the game/around long enough for Rodgers to do damage. Like the Cosell article, he's just seeing the game and dissecting defenses at a different rate/efficiency than he was in October.

Part is comfort with the guys around him (a healthy Adams, Cook's return, Nelson's reemergence, and Cobb's off-and-on injury, as well as a turnstile at the RB position), and part is him elevating his own play as a leader. It's refreshing to see, I'm embarrassed I even remotely questioned his leadership earlier this season when things weren't going well. Adversity gets us to say some stupid things.

Also, I have an odd feeling we get an early turnover or two the way we did against Seattle--and then the floodgates open. But this time, we close it down.

34-26.
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packerjmf wrote:
GWH87 wrote:
Somebody take the off season shovel out of Ted's hands & bury him in his own hole.

How can he dig a hole if he's too busy sitting on his hands?
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DeepConvection


Joined: 05 Sep 2016
Posts: 478
Location: Bear Country
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skibrett15 wrote:
DeepConvection wrote:
Pugger wrote:
My biggest beef about this game - outside of the injuries - was McCarthy going for it in the 3rd quarter on 4th down our side the field up by 8. It gave NJ a free 7 points. I thought it was one of the dumbest moves I've seen him do in a while. Confused


Yeah it's probably the dumbest call he's ever made. He never did dumb stuff to this extent until the fans and media got on him for not being aggressive enough in the Seattle NFC Championship game; a game which he actually called just fine.


I was ok with the decision at the time, was hoping for a sneak though.


In that situation, on your own 42 yard line, in those conditions, with the defense mainly only stopping NY due to offensive errors, it was a highly unfavorable call to make.
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BrettFavre004


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeepConvection wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:
DeepConvection wrote:
Pugger wrote:
My biggest beef about this game - outside of the injuries - was McCarthy going for it in the 3rd quarter on 4th down our side the field up by 8. It gave NJ a free 7 points. I thought it was one of the dumbest moves I've seen him do in a while. Confused


Yeah it's probably the dumbest call he's ever made. He never did dumb stuff to this extent until the fans and media got on him for not being aggressive enough in the Seattle NFC Championship game; a game which he actually called just fine.


I was ok with the decision at the time, was hoping for a sneak though.


In that situation, on your own 42 yard line, in those conditions, with the defense mainly only stopping NY due to offensive errors, it was a highly unfavorable call to make.


I liked it and was asking for it =)

Once it was 3rd & 1, I kept yelling to run it up the gut two plays in a row. In an isolated situation, not a smart call, but I do think moves like that helps change the motivation and attitude of the players. A fan of a message it gives to the O.
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skibrett15


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Location: nibelheim
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the process was sound for the playcalls and the decision. It just didn't work out.

I don't believe in momentum. It's a fallacy that humans ascribe to make sense of random results.
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Frank-O


Joined: 20 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skibrett15 wrote:
I thought the process was sound for the playcalls and the decision. It just didn't work out.

I don't believe in momentum. It's a fallacy that humans ascribe to make sense of random results.


I like to call it a mix of confidence and adrenaline. A physical fallacy, yes, but not always a mental one.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17806
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank-O wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:
I thought the process was sound for the playcalls and the decision. It just didn't work out.

I don't believe in momentum. It's a fallacy that humans ascribe to make sense of random results.


I like to call it a mix of confidence and adrenaline. A physical fallacy, yes, but not always a mental one.


Well said. Confidence definitely exists. Which can lead to "momentum." I don't see how it can be denied. Though since it cannot be measured and is inconsistent in when it appears and disappears, it's hard to really look at sometimes as an important factor.

brett will hate me but I feel confidence/momentum is the most underrated factor in sports. Purely because it can't be measured really and it can come and go easily.
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skibrett15


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

definitely believe in confidence.

Also believe that it's next to impossible to predict how a player's confidence may/may not be affected by a strategic or coaching decision. Some players are gonna have their level of play raised by a benching because they get angry and go out there looking to prove themselves. Some players might totally retreat into their shell and be ruined by a benching.

Some defenses may take a coaches decision to go for it in a weird situation as an affront to their ability, and that could likewise have the similar two pronged effect above. Others, may see it as a vote of confidence and similarly diverge.

What I'm very confident of, is that the conventional "momentum" wisdom is wildly unpredictable, and that for every example of a "huge momentum swing or turning point" in the game, there's a dozen other explanations that make just as much if not more sense in terms of the outcome.

Also confidence =\= momentum. Bama should have had the "momentum" after that "game winning TD run by Hurts". Instead, Clemson won and we have a different story. Momentum is something determined after the fact and ascribed once the outcome is already known.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17806
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skibrett15 wrote:
definitely believe in confidence.

Also believe that it's next to impossible to predict how a player's confidence may/may not be affected by a strategic or coaching decision. Some players are gonna have their level of play raised by a benching because they get angry and go out there looking to prove themselves. Some players might totally retreat into their shell and be ruined by a benching.

Some defenses may take a coaches decision to go for it in a weird situation as an affront to their ability, and that could likewise have the similar two pronged effect above. Others, may see it as a vote of confidence and similarly diverge.

What I'm very confident of, is that the conventional "momentum" wisdom is wildly unpredictable, and that for every example of a "huge momentum swing or turning point" in the game, there's a dozen other explanations that make just as much if not more sense in terms of the outcome.

Also confidence =\= momentum. Bama should have had the "momentum" after that "game winning TD run by Hurts". Instead, Clemson won and we have a different story. Momentum is something determined after the fact and ascribed once the outcome is already known.


That's the thing, momentum isn't a constant. It's kind of like clutch. I fully believe some people are more clutch than others, it doesn't mean you are always clutch. Just like a TD that gives a momentum swing doesn't always equate to a win.

Momentum is a team with inflated confidence, more or less, from my POV.
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 40954
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NormSizedMidget wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:
definitely believe in confidence.

Also believe that it's next to impossible to predict how a player's confidence may/may not be affected by a strategic or coaching decision. Some players are gonna have their level of play raised by a benching because they get angry and go out there looking to prove themselves. Some players might totally retreat into their shell and be ruined by a benching.

Some defenses may take a coaches decision to go for it in a weird situation as an affront to their ability, and that could likewise have the similar two pronged effect above. Others, may see it as a vote of confidence and similarly diverge.

What I'm very confident of, is that the conventional "momentum" wisdom is wildly unpredictable, and that for every example of a "huge momentum swing or turning point" in the game, there's a dozen other explanations that make just as much if not more sense in terms of the outcome.

Also confidence =\= momentum. Bama should have had the "momentum" after that "game winning TD run by Hurts". Instead, Clemson won and we have a different story. Momentum is something determined after the fact and ascribed once the outcome is already known.


That's the thing, momentum isn't a constant. It's kind of like clutch. I fully believe some people are more clutch than others, it doesn't mean you are always clutch. Just like a TD that gives a momentum swing doesn't always equate to a win.

Momentum is a team with inflated confidence, more or less, from my POV.


i see it as momentum breeds confidence and confidence decreases hesitation/overthinking which means faster decisions/actions. So if your properly prepared and the first instincts are more often than not good, momentum has a significant advantage in that the faster decisions and actions are more difficult to beat (when they are the right ones).
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 17806
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
NormSizedMidget wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:
definitely believe in confidence.

Also believe that it's next to impossible to predict how a player's confidence may/may not be affected by a strategic or coaching decision. Some players are gonna have their level of play raised by a benching because they get angry and go out there looking to prove themselves. Some players might totally retreat into their shell and be ruined by a benching.

Some defenses may take a coaches decision to go for it in a weird situation as an affront to their ability, and that could likewise have the similar two pronged effect above. Others, may see it as a vote of confidence and similarly diverge.

What I'm very confident of, is that the conventional "momentum" wisdom is wildly unpredictable, and that for every example of a "huge momentum swing or turning point" in the game, there's a dozen other explanations that make just as much if not more sense in terms of the outcome.

Also confidence =\= momentum. Bama should have had the "momentum" after that "game winning TD run by Hurts". Instead, Clemson won and we have a different story. Momentum is something determined after the fact and ascribed once the outcome is already known.


That's the thing, momentum isn't a constant. It's kind of like clutch. I fully believe some people are more clutch than others, it doesn't mean you are always clutch. Just like a TD that gives a momentum swing doesn't always equate to a win.

Momentum is a team with inflated confidence, more or less, from my POV.


i see it as momentum breeds confidence and confidence decreases hesitation/overthinking which means faster decisions/actions. So if your properly prepared and the first instincts are more often than not good, momentum has a significant advantage in that the faster decisions and actions are more difficult to beat (when they are the right ones).


That makes a lot of sense. I agree with that.
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Matts4313


Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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Location: Cowboys Forum ROH Class of 12
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shanedorf wrote:
caught a snippet of Inside the NFL with Phil Simms and Boomer Esiason
They show a clip of Cobb returning to the sideline after the Hail Mary

Cobb said:" I lost the ball in the lights and I didn't see it till it hit my hands"

When Rodgers launches the ball into a low-earth orbit, its coming straight down and most defenders aren't used to tracking it. They are used to tracking a horizontal ball and having the horizon as a reference point in their peripheral view. Staring straight up with no horizon in sight makes it a much tougher task to judge where the ball is coming down.
.


Was interesting conversation about the push off. I saw it live, but they made the comment that basically its a free play in terms of contact. Not that I think it would ever be called, but I wonder if players know that and its coached up.
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DeepConvection


Joined: 05 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BrettFavre004 wrote:
DeepConvection wrote:
skibrett15 wrote:
DeepConvection wrote:
Pugger wrote:
My biggest beef about this game - outside of the injuries - was McCarthy going for it in the 3rd quarter on 4th down our side the field up by 8. It gave NJ a free 7 points. I thought it was one of the dumbest moves I've seen him do in a while. Confused


Yeah it's probably the dumbest call he's ever made. He never did dumb stuff to this extent until the fans and media got on him for not being aggressive enough in the Seattle NFC Championship game; a game which he actually called just fine.


I was ok with the decision at the time, was hoping for a sneak though.


In that situation, on your own 42 yard line, in those conditions, with the defense mainly only stopping NY due to offensive errors, it was a highly unfavorable call to make.


I liked it and was asking for it =)

Once it was 3rd & 1, I kept yelling to run it up the gut two plays in a row. In an isolated situation, not a smart call, but I do think moves like that helps change the motivation and attitude of the players. A fan of a message it gives to the O.


It was a dumb call from just about every aspect possible. If you're going to make a huge, dumb risk like that, you give it to RIP right up the gut.
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{Family Ghost}


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dumb decision to go for it, but if you are hell bent ... should have pulled in everyone tight and then ran play action. They had 9 in the box.
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