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mayanfootball


Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
just read Poe was bear hugged on the last 3rd down to Brown.
Saw Ford get held/hugged often. Pitt is just better at it, keeping elbows in so it's not as noticeable. They're taught to hold better than KC.
But really, Pitt's Oline was just bigger, heavier, better. Houston just ran a few steps, stopped and ususally was engulfed or simply walled off.

KC used 2 man DT most of the game until towards the end. With 1 ILB, Sutton let Bell cake walk to massive yardage. Yes, Sutton will always be an imbecile.


Last edited by mayanfootball on Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mayanfootball


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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I personally think Harrison grabbed Fish's arm (you can see it on replay) and slipped down to the ground
Desperate times call for desperate measures. 38yr. old Harrison is a wiley vet. I saw what u saw too. He TRIED to get the holding by going to the ground. Harrison also pleads for holding from on his back by throwing his arms up and looking for the ref. He knew what he was doing. The ref took the bait and throws the flag.
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ArrowheadRage58


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mayanfootball wrote:
Quote:
I personally think Harrison grabbed Fish's arm (you can see it on replay) and slipped down to the ground
Desperate times call for desperate measures. 38yr. old Harrison is a wiley vet. I saw what u saw too. He TRIED to get the holding by going to the ground. Harrison also pleads for holding from on his back by throwing his arms up and looking for the ref. He knew what he was doing. The ref took the bait and throws the flag.


Then Harrison admits after the game that's not a holding that ever gets called.

I don't know if Houston is completely healthy, but I just don't know if he is the pass rusher Mack or Miller is against good tackles. He dominates the bad ones better than anybody, but someone remind me when he dominated a good one?
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jimmydee1


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a hard time with hardly any holding calls. Tamba, Houston and Ford NOT getting to QB is not the result of a better OL.

The rest of it is too obvious to re-state.
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footballfan81


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chiefs_5627 wrote:
Say what you will but I don't pin this on Sutton. We just held a team that almost dropped a 50 burger on us last time to keeping em out of the endzone. With a ton of injuries to boot. I feel the offense [inappropriate/removed] footed their way through the game. They had a good game plan for Reek as well. Oh well, too much emotion right now for thus convo


Keeping them out of the end zone had more to do with the Steelers execution and play calling than anything Sutton did. The Steelers moved the ball at will, with Bell averaging damn near 7 yards per carry, and had a huge time of possession advantage (which affected our offense). We couldn't get them off the field and their first punt came at around the 10 minute mark of the 3rd quarter.

Dropping Houston, who lest we forget had knee swelling from his torn ACL just a few weeks ago, into coverage TWICE, with one gifting the Steelers 3 points after we had just scored a TD is inexcusable.

There is way too much talent on this defense for it to not be suffocating. Peters playing damn near 20 yards off on 1st and 2nd down is downright disgusting.

Same thing with the offense, way too much talent at the skill positions for them to only score 16 points. The guys at the controls for both units bear the blame, Smith and Sutton.
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Chiefer


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footballfan81 wrote:
Chiefs_5627 wrote:
Say what you will but I don't pin this on Sutton. We just held a team that almost dropped a 50 burger on us last time to keeping em out of the endzone. With a ton of injuries to boot. I feel the offense [inappropriate/removed] footed their way through the game. They had a good game plan for Reek as well. Oh well, too much emotion right now for thus convo


Keeping them out of the end zone had more to do with the Steelers execution and play calling than anything Sutton did. The Steelers moved the ball at will, with Bell averaging damn near 7 yards per carry, and had a huge time of possession advantage (which affected our offense). We couldn't get them off the field and their first punt came at around the 10 minute mark of the 3rd quarter.

Dropping Houston, who lest we forget had knee swelling from his torn ACL just a few weeks ago, into coverage TWICE, with one gifting the Steelers 3 points after we had just scored a TD is inexcusable.

There is way too much talent on this defense for it to not be suffocating. Peters playing damn near 20 yards off on 1st and 2nd down is downright disgusting.

Same thing with the offense, way too much talent at the skill positions for them to only score 16 points. The guys at the controls for both units bear the blame, Smith and Sutton.
id agree with you, but the Chiefs have done this all year.

Teams march down the field, but once they get into the redzone can't score. Chiefs are a classic bend-don't-break defense.

That was on full display last night. I mean you can say the Steelers didn't execute, but other teams didn't either. The defense really clamped down in the redzone.

Usually our offense can drive/score decently enough to compensate but too little too late last night.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footballfan81 wrote:
Chiefs_5627 wrote:
Say what you will but I don't pin this on Sutton. We just held a team that almost dropped a 50 burger on us last time to keeping em out of the endzone. With a ton of injuries to boot. I feel the offense [inappropriate/removed] footed their way through the game. They had a good game plan for Reek as well. Oh well, too much emotion right now for thus convo


Keeping them out of the end zone had more to do with the Steelers execution and play calling than anything Sutton did. The Steelers moved the ball at will, with Bell averaging damn near 7 yards per carry, and had a huge time of possession advantage (which affected our offense). We couldn't get them off the field and their first punt came at around the 10 minute mark of the 3rd quarter.

Dropping Houston, who lest we forget had knee swelling from his torn ACL just a few weeks ago, into coverage TWICE, with one gifting the Steelers 3 points after we had just scored a TD is inexcusable.

There is way too much talent on this defense for it to not be suffocating. Peters playing damn near 20 yards off on 1st and 2nd down is downright disgusting.

Same thing with the offense, way too much talent at the skill positions for them to only score 16 points. The guys at the controls for both units bear the blame, Smith and Sutton.

As Chiefer said, bend but don't break. We prevent big plays waiting on the offense to make a mistake like a penalty putting them in predictable situations. Houston is in coverage a good amount, and it's not only because he's good at it, but because if he only rushes, he's easier to predict. If the QB knows where the rush is coming from on every play, we're making his job much easier.

And Peters playing off a lot again prevents big plays, but many of his INTs come from breaks were he's allowed to read the QB for 3 seconds. If he's in press, he's got to look back to watch the QB which is extremely difficult and would result in being toasted by someone like Brown. If we want INTs off of him, playing off increases that chance dramatically.

And the Steelers play calling in the red zone is not Sutton's fault. He can only run the defense against what they call, and it flat out worked. I really don't get the bashing of Sutton. If our defense does well, it's either because the talent on defense overcoming his ineptitude or the other team failing to execute, or anything other than maybe he has a clue.

As I said before, this loss is way more on dropped balls, but another huge contributor was our STs never made an impact. We took advantage of the one squib to Harris, but there were at least 4-5 times Hill got a shot, and our blocking was terrible, usually allowing 3 guys to bracket Hill inside the 15. We shot ourselves in the foot with drops, and didn't execute on returns like we had all season, that's the difference in this game.
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footballfan81


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
footballfan81 wrote:
Chiefs_5627 wrote:
Say what you will but I don't pin this on Sutton. We just held a team that almost dropped a 50 burger on us last time to keeping em out of the endzone. With a ton of injuries to boot. I feel the offense [inappropriate/removed] footed their way through the game. They had a good game plan for Reek as well. Oh well, too much emotion right now for thus convo


Keeping them out of the end zone had more to do with the Steelers execution and play calling than anything Sutton did. The Steelers moved the ball at will, with Bell averaging damn near 7 yards per carry, and had a huge time of possession advantage (which affected our offense). We couldn't get them off the field and their first punt came at around the 10 minute mark of the 3rd quarter.

Dropping Houston, who lest we forget had knee swelling from his torn ACL just a few weeks ago, into coverage TWICE, with one gifting the Steelers 3 points after we had just scored a TD is inexcusable.

There is way too much talent on this defense for it to not be suffocating. Peters playing damn near 20 yards off on 1st and 2nd down is downright disgusting.

Same thing with the offense, way too much talent at the skill positions for them to only score 16 points. The guys at the controls for both units bear the blame, Smith and Sutton.

As Chiefer said, bend but don't break. We prevent big plays waiting on the offense to make a mistake like a penalty putting them in predictable situations. Houston is in coverage a good amount, and it's not only because he's good at it, but because if he only rushes, he's easier to predict. If the QB knows where the rush is coming from on every play, we're making his job much easier.

And Peters playing off a lot again prevents big plays, but many of his INTs come from breaks were he's allowed to read the QB for 3 seconds. If he's in press, he's got to look back to watch the QB which is extremely difficult and would result in being toasted by someone like Brown. If we want INTs off of him, playing off increases that chance dramatically.

And the Steelers play calling in the red zone is not Sutton's fault. He can only run the defense against what they call, and it flat out worked. I really don't get the bashing of Sutton. If our defense does well, it's either because the talent on defense overcoming his ineptitude or the other team failing to execute, or anything other than maybe he has a clue.

As I said before, this loss is way more on dropped balls, but another huge contributor was our STs never made an impact. We took advantage of the one squib to Harris, but there were at least 4-5 times Hill got a shot, and our blocking was terrible, usually allowing 3 guys to bracket Hill inside the 15. We shot ourselves in the foot with drops, and didn't execute on returns like we had all season, that's the difference in this game.


Well, if the Chiefs intended to use that defensive strategy in the AFCCG against the Patriots, then it's a good thing they lost because waiting on Brady to make a mistake is fruitless. He would have slowly dissected the Chiefs defense, dinking and dunking his offense down the field. Letting Bell run for over 100 yards in the first half is not a sound game plan if you ask me. But, bend and don't break... and stuff.

I guess you missed the part about Houston dealing with knee swelling a few weeks ago due to last season's torn ACL. Why drop him into coverage against arguably the best WR in the league? Oh you want to be less predictable, then might as well line up Poe as a safety to keep teams guessing. They'll never see that one coming! This is why Reid continues to fall short in the playoffs - overthinks the game plan, gets too cute to catch teams "off guard" by not playing to his team's strengths. Case in point, the red zone sequence where the Chiefs ended up settling for a FG. The toss to Kelce killed that drive.

Funny, but on the 3rd and 3, Ben scrambled to his right where, you guessed it, Justin Houston would have been had he not dropped into coverage, so looks to me like the Steelers correctly predicted Sutton would drop Houston into coverage.

I was referring to Peters playing 20 yards off on the Steelers third string wideout. That's a flat out joke.

The Steelers offense having a tremendous time of possession advantage had a negative effect on the Chiefs offense. Hell, they only had four total possessions in the first half! All because the dumb bend but don't break defense couldn't get the Steelers off the field.
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Jakuvious


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

footballfan81 wrote:

Funny, but on the 3rd and 3, Ben scrambled to his right where, you guessed it, Justin Houston would have been had he not dropped into coverage, so looks to me like the Steelers correctly predicted Sutton would drop Houston into coverage.


Okay, clearly this play needs to be explained, because I've seen an absurd amount of criticism of that play of this nature, that just shows that people either didn't pay attention to the play, or they don't understand football schemes.

We were in a 3-3-5 on that play. Jones, Poe, and Roches on the line (we went with 3 DL for most of the late game to correct to stop Bell.) Houston, Wilson, and Zombo were in at LB. Our usual 5 were at DB (Peters, Parker, Berry, Nelson, Mitchell.) Pittsburgh went with a tight bunch formation to their left, with 2 WRs and a TE outside. They had 1 WR on the right and a RB in the backfield. Their formation dictated how we lined up. Peters solo'd the RWR, obviously. Parker was the single high safety. Which left Berry, Nelson, and Mitchell to line up across from the bunched receivers. Wilson was dead center watching Bell.

We ran a zone play, there. If Houston does not drop into coverage....no one drops into coverage there. We had two players lined up outside the right hash in the entire formation, Peters (again, manned up on the RWR) and Houston on the line. There's no one else to give that zone to. Houston is an OLB. Particularly when we go with 3 down linemen. He has to cover sometimes. Same with Hali, same with Ford, same with Zombo. The only situation, in that formation, where Houston is not dropping into that zone is if we rush 5 and play man coverage. In which case we would have likely had Steven Nelson running with Brown across field, which is not going to be any more successful there.

Because seriously, I challenge you, tell me who is going to cover that zone if it isn't Houston. Because there's no one else even close to there. To keep Houston out of that kind of coverage responsibility there, you'd have had to go with a 2-4-5 look, leaving Sorensen or Wilson with that outside zone, but that was the formation that we were getting gashed on, so they went away with it.

It's so easy to say, why is Houston covering Brown? But it isn't that simple. It's a freaking zone. Houston didn't cover Brown. Brown was schemed into Houston's zone. It was a good play call by Pittsburgh, taking advantage of the fear the instilled in us of Bell, and it was well-blocked by their OL (and it had to be, because that was not a quick developing play.) We schemed to stop Bell first, and to prevent the quick pass second (the bunch formation would've seemed to indicate a quick pass to the left.) Which was a reasonable call. They went with a long developing play across the field to the empty right side of the field. It worked out.

And beyond that, Houston is good in coverage. He always has been. With DJ out he's probably our second best coverage LB anyway. It's not like we put Tamba in man coverage on a WR.
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valkrei


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigschmadt00 wrote:
footballfan81 wrote:
Chiefs_5627 wrote:
Say what you will but I don't pin this on Sutton. We just held a team that almost dropped a 50 burger on us last time to keeping em out of the endzone. With a ton of injuries to boot. I feel the offense [inappropriate/removed] footed their way through the game. They had a good game plan for Reek as well. Oh well, too much emotion right now for thus convo


Keeping them out of the end zone had more to do with the Steelers execution and play calling than anything Sutton did. The Steelers moved the ball at will, with Bell averaging damn near 7 yards per carry, and had a huge time of possession advantage (which affected our offense). We couldn't get them off the field and their first punt came at around the 10 minute mark of the 3rd quarter.

Dropping Houston, who lest we forget had knee swelling from his torn ACL just a few weeks ago, into coverage TWICE, with one gifting the Steelers 3 points after we had just scored a TD is inexcusable.

There is way too much talent on this defense for it to not be suffocating. Peters playing damn near 20 yards off on 1st and 2nd down is downright disgusting.

Same thing with the offense, way too much talent at the skill positions for them to only score 16 points. The guys at the controls for both units bear the blame, Smith and Sutton.

As Chiefer said, bend but don't break. We prevent big plays waiting on the offense to make a mistake like a penalty putting them in predictable situations. Houston is in coverage a good amount, and it's not only because he's good at it, but because if he only rushes, he's easier to predict. If the QB knows where the rush is coming from on every play, we're making his job much easier.

And Peters playing off a lot again prevents big plays, but many of his INTs come from breaks were he's allowed to read the QB for 3 seconds. If he's in press, he's got to look back to watch the QB which is extremely difficult and would result in being toasted by someone like Brown. If we want INTs off of him, playing off increases that chance dramatically.

And the Steelers play calling in the red zone is not Sutton's fault. He can only run the defense against what they call, and it flat out worked. I really don't get the bashing of Sutton. If our defense does well, it's either because the talent on defense overcoming his ineptitude or the other team failing to execute, or anything other than maybe he has a clue.

As I said before, this loss is way more on dropped balls, but another huge contributor was our STs never made an impact. We took advantage of the one squib to Harris, but there were at least 4-5 times Hill got a shot, and our blocking was terrible, usually allowing 3 guys to bracket Hill inside the 15. We shot ourselves in the foot with drops, and didn't execute on returns like we had all season, that's the difference in this game.



The problem with the bend dont break D is that it does break and you loose games. Tampa also comes to mind.
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bigschmadt00


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying our defense is stellar, but they are top 10 and certainly good enough for us to win the SB. They weren't the reason we lost this game, and honestly they've not been the reason we lost any of the games this season , except maybe the first Steelers game where they were equally as bad as the offense was that week.

We need complimentary efforts from the rest of our team to win big games, but honestly so does every team 95℅ of the time. Heck, even the 2000 Ravens had a good running game that kept TOP close to even.

I cannot buy that Sutton is bad at his job when he's consistently over several years fielded a top 10-15 defense, despite injuries and UFA losses to key starters. There is simply no way he's bad at his job yet could still produce those results in those circumstances for several years running. Is he the best ever, no, but he is more than adequate and far from a problem we need to try and address.
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mayanfootball


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not saying our defense is stellar, but they are top 10 and certainly good enough for us to win the SB.
Onlly top 10 in scoring and turnovers.
They are 24/yards/gm, 26/rushing yds and 18/passing yds.
With no ILB's in a 3-4 defense, it's a joke to say KC is SB worthy. Sutton should have loaded the box with and used at least 4 big DT the whole game to stop Bell. Peters could have shut down Brown if he was assigned with a double team. But Sutton's too stubborn to alter his stupid game plan insisting on using 2DT's with basically no ILB support.
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kingseanjohn


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Points win games. Not yards.

The offense needs to be better.
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footballfan81


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mayanfootball wrote:
Quote:
I'm not saying our defense is stellar, but they are top 10 and certainly good enough for us to win the SB.
Onlly top 10 in scoring and turnovers.
They are 24/yards/gm, 26/rushing yds and 18/passing yds.
With no ILB's in a 3-4 defense, it's a joke to say KC is SB worthy. Sutton should have loaded the box with and used at least 4 big DT the whole game to stop Bell. Peters could have shut down Brown if he was assigned with a double team. But Sutton's too stubborn to alter his stupid game plan insisting on using 2DT's with basically no ILB support.


Exactly. Not sure why people here can't realize that our defense, based on the available talent, is not where it should be. We're at the bottom of the league in 3rd down conversions (and it was evident against Pittsburgh), rushing yards per game and yards per game. Put Wade Phillips at the helm and this defense would become the ferocious, suffocating unit that it should be. Letting teams drive all over the field, consume loads of time and convert 3rd and long after 3rd and long, even if you hold them to field goals, is demoralizing and has a direct effect in the offense getting in rhythm.

Am I putting the entire blame on Sutton for this loss? No. Sutton, Smith, Kelce and Reid share the blame. Sutton and Reid for getting too cute and overthinking things, Kelce for the drop and penalty, Smith for missing Hill not once but twice and misfiring on the pass to Maclin.
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footballfan81


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jakuvious wrote:
footballfan81 wrote:

Funny, but on the 3rd and 3, Ben scrambled to his right where, you guessed it, Justin Houston would have been had he not dropped into coverage, so looks to me like the Steelers correctly predicted Sutton would drop Houston into coverage.


Okay, clearly this play needs to be explained, because I've seen an absurd amount of criticism of that play of this nature, that just shows that people either didn't pay attention to the play, or they don't understand football schemes.

We were in a 3-3-5 on that play. Jones, Poe, and Roches on the line (we went with 3 DL for most of the late game to correct to stop Bell.) Houston, Wilson, and Zombo were in at LB. Our usual 5 were at DB (Peters, Parker, Berry, Nelson, Mitchell.) Pittsburgh went with a tight bunch formation to their left, with 2 WRs and a TE outside. They had 1 WR on the right and a RB in the backfield. Their formation dictated how we lined up. Peters solo'd the RWR, obviously. Parker was the single high safety. Which left Berry, Nelson, and Mitchell to line up across from the bunched receivers. Wilson was dead center watching Bell.

We ran a zone play, there. If Houston does not drop into coverage....no one drops into coverage there. We had two players lined up outside the right hash in the entire formation, Peters (again, manned up on the RWR) and Houston on the line. There's no one else to give that zone to. Houston is an OLB. Particularly when we go with 3 down linemen. He has to cover sometimes. Same with Hali, same with Ford, same with Zombo. The only situation, in that formation, where Houston is not dropping into that zone is if we rush 5 and play man coverage. In which case we would have likely had Steven Nelson running with Brown across field, which is not going to be any more successful there.

Because seriously, I challenge you, tell me who is going to cover that zone if it isn't Houston. Because there's no one else even close to there. To keep Houston out of that kind of coverage responsibility there, you'd have had to go with a 2-4-5 look, leaving Sorensen or Wilson with that outside zone, but that was the formation that we were getting gashed on, so they went away with it.

It's so easy to say, why is Houston covering Brown? But it isn't that simple. It's a freaking zone. Houston didn't cover Brown. Brown was schemed into Houston's zone. It was a good play call by Pittsburgh, taking advantage of the fear the instilled in us of Bell, and it was well-blocked by their OL (and it had to be, because that was not a quick developing play.) We schemed to stop Bell first, and to prevent the quick pass second (the bunch formation would've seemed to indicate a quick pass to the left.) Which was a reasonable call. They went with a long developing play across the field to the empty right side of the field. It worked out.

And beyond that, Houston is good in coverage. He always has been. With DJ out he's probably our second best coverage LB anyway. It's not like we put Tamba in man coverage on a WR.


So what's the excuse for having Houston cover Brown one on one earlier in the game that GIFTED the Steelers 3 points after we had just scored a TD with momentum on our side?
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