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The Bears starting QB in 2017 is...
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WindyCity


Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 15357
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great read on Watson.

They interview McCown, Randall Cunningham and Mike Shannahan.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/01/11/nfl-draft-deshaun-watson-stock-round-scouting-report-mike-shanahan-josh-mccown-randall-cunningham
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51to54


Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
Epyon wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Epyon wrote:
AZBearsFan wrote:
Russell Wilson got to the SB twice with a loaded DEFENSE. He's had a lousy OL most of his tenure and has never had an elite WR at his disposal. Russell Wilson also has the second highest Career QB Rating in the history of the league.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career.htm

So there's that too.


It wasn't just an elite defense... it was a top 10 of all time defense... Grossman made it to the Superbowl under similar circumstances for us. I'd add that the elite defense part was true for basically all the non elite QBs.

I will also add, that Wilson also had an elite running game working in his favor as well.

The trends don't lie... You really need an elite ceiling QB with a giant arm, or an absolutely mind blowing defense (and in some cases, both). I don't think Watson is that guy at all, nor do I think we have that kind of defense (nor will we if we spend first round draft picks on Russell Wilson ceiling QBs)

You're really going to argue that Wilson isn't an elite QB? 2nd ALL TIME in QB rating? 3rd ALL TIME in TD/INT ratio? If that's not elite, what IS elite? Setting aside this year when a hobbled all year Wilson was basically running a one-dimensional offense (their leading rusher had < 500 yards), Seattle's OFFENSE ranked 9th, 8th, 10th and 4th in points scored from 2012-2015. Their defense is great without question but they're winning 27-13 most weeks, not 13-10. Seattle's rush offense ranks at the top of the league every year because Wilson adds another 500+ rush yards to their total himself (a skill Watson also possesses).

If you're not sold on Watson then that's fine but just say that. To say you don't want to take Watson because his ceiling might ONLY be as high as a guy who 5 years into his career who is putting up all time great level efficiency numbers is just ludicrous.



Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Big Ben, Flacco, Luck, Stafford, Matt Ryan, Rivers, Mariota, Carr, and Winston are all QBs I'd take before Wilson if given absolute choice.... That's like a third of the League... Even if you argued for half of them (like Winston and Mariota are still more potential than true player so far, but both have more upside than Wilson)... where exactly do you draw the line of -elite- at? Hell, Brees/Brady/Rogers/Big Ben alone is more than 10%. of the starting 32 QBs!

How on earth could I rate a QB as elite when he's not even in my top 10 of active players (I say active because Peyton would obviously also be on the list if we counted any players during Wilsons career)?


I respect your opinion but I had a good chuckle with the bolded names.

How do you take those guys before Wilson? Do you even watch football?

I like a lot of those guys, most notably Carr and Mariota but what have they accomplished that you can definitively say that you would take them over Wilson?

As AZ mentioned Russell Wilson has proven both statistically and by winning a SB championship that he belongs among the league's current elite QB's.

Flacco, despite also winning a SB has not shown he is elite, nor have the other bolded names.

The Bears would be extremely fortunate to land a QB like Wilson because he would be without a doubt the best QB they've ever had in their franchise's history.

Great debate stuff, but mostly because it's kind of outrageous rankings of QB's better than Wilson. My own bolded list matches yours, except that I'd add Manning and drop Ryan, although I"ve begun to wonder just how 'franchise' he is with a 1-4 playoff record over 9 seasons, but his stats jumped a whole level this season so maybe this is the year. Many of these guys are capable QB's who when given a good team around them and a hot streak are able to get their teams to the Super Bowl and some championships.

Epyon, I love your enthusiasm and Brady would certainly make Cleveland better, but "You could put Tom Brady on Cleveland, and make them a playoff franchise overnight..." only works in my world if the other 3 AFC Central team planes crash and even then Cleveland only gets in as a wild card.
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TankWilliams


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
Great read on Watson.

They interview McCown, Randall Cunningham and Mike Shannahan.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/01/11/nfl-draft-deshaun-watson-stock-round-scouting-report-mike-shanahan-josh-mccown-randall-cunningham


Some of my favorite quotes from this article:

Quote:
Cunningham: He has a lot of poise. He has the poise of an NFL veteran, really. He’s a field general. He doesn’t rush, he’s patient. You can’t teach that, it’s innate. He reminds me of myself when I had come back from a knee injury. I had a brace on my knee and people said, Well, now he’s going to be limited. Great players figure out ways, no matter circumstance.


Quote:
Cunningham: You can talk about him as a runner or how well he runs all day, but he has a very strong arm. I think he definitely has the arm strength you’re looking for, and really that you need to be an NFL quarterback.


Quote:
Shanahan: He has a good release. He has the ability to make all of the throws. That's the first thing you look for.


Quote:
McCown: The NFL game and the college game are becoming very different. We’ve seen so many Heisman Trophy winners come in, and don't do as well in the NFL. But with Deshaun, I actually think the NFL game could help him a little bit. In college, some of the throws you are asked to make are different—because of the nature of the field, the hashes, the run pass options. When you have the arm strength, which Deshaun certainly does, some throws that maybe he’s not been asked to make yet, he’ll be asked to make in the NFL. And maybe he’s really good at those. Just look at recent history. Dak Prescott, I know he did great things at Mississippi State, but he flew under the radar a little bit, and then he gets in the pro game and it’s like, Wait a minute, he can make that throw? He can make this throw?


Quote:
Shanahan: It takes a while to learn to be a pocket passer. You can tell that he struggled a little bit with the intermediate and deep routes. That does take some time. Your footwork in the pocket, your ability to slide in the pocket, instead of just taking off and looking downfield or looking at the holes in the defense where you can keep your head up and still slide and still focus downfield. And key the whole defense? That takes time. That doesn’t happen overnight. So that’s something he is going to have to work on.


Quote:
Cunningham: I think he could play right away if a team needs him, but it’s always my preference to have a rookie sit and learn behind a veteran. Maybe it’s only for the preseason or a few games, but you never want to rush someone out there too soon.


Quote:
Cunningham: After the game, Dabo Swinney said, “I told you that’s the best college football player in America.” He is, but he’s an NFL player. When you get into big games, you find out who the real players are. He proved, in beating Alabama, he’s the real deal. Deshaun Watson and NFL? Yeah, no doubt about it. Watson is a first-round draft pick in my eyes, easily.
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topwop1


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I got out of that SI article is that Watson has the all the traits that you look for in a game changing QB but he needs to work on a few things. Shanahan seems to have faith that he can learn how to be a successful NFL QB and make smart decisions so that's a positive. At least we now have someone on record with some clout that is making this statement.

Another guy who is really high on Watson is former NFL player and NFL analyst Bucky Brooks.

I don't know if anyone already posted this about Watson but I recently came across this PFF article which is a few months old.

HOW CLEMSON’S DESHAUN WATSON COMPARES TO CAM NEWTON

If I told you that the Bears would be able to get a Cam Newton type QB (former MVP) would you take that?
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Blaize4488


Joined: 24 Dec 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
What I got out of that SI article is that Watson has the all the traits that you look for in a game changing QB but he needs to work on a few things. Shanahan seems to have faith that he can learn how to be a successful NFL QB and make smart decisions so that's a positive. At least we now have someone on record with some clout that is making this statement.

Another guy who is really high on Watson is former NFL player and NFL analyst Bucky Brooks.

I don't know if anyone already posted this about Watson but I recently came across this PFF article which is a few months old.

HOW CLEMSON’S DESHAUN WATSON COMPARES TO CAM NEWTON

If I told you that the Bears would be able to get a Cam Newton type QB (former MVP) would you take that?

All day, and if thats the case then the Browns should take him over Garrett without any questions asked.

This QB class is never gonna have a consensus. Some seem to think it's loaded while others think it's average at best. I will go back and forth on every prospect probably every day until draft night. One day I love player x, the next day I find a way to talk myself out of him.
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G08


Joined: 28 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaize4488 wrote:
topwop1 wrote:
What I got out of that SI article is that Watson has the all the traits that you look for in a game changing QB but he needs to work on a few things. Shanahan seems to have faith that he can learn how to be a successful NFL QB and make smart decisions so that's a positive. At least we now have someone on record with some clout that is making this statement.

Another guy who is really high on Watson is former NFL player and NFL analyst Bucky Brooks.

I don't know if anyone already posted this about Watson but I recently came across this PFF article which is a few months old.

HOW CLEMSON’S DESHAUN WATSON COMPARES TO CAM NEWTON

If I told you that the Bears would be able to get a Cam Newton type QB (former MVP) would you take that?

All day, and if thats the case then the Browns should take him over Garrett without any questions asked.

This QB class is never gonna have a consensus. Some seem to think it's loaded while others think it's average at best. I will go back and forth on every prospect probably every day until draft night. One day I love player x, the next day I find a way to talk myself out of him.


That's the boat I'm in.

At the end of the day, I think I want Barkley and Hoyer to battle for the #1 job next season, loser is #2, and the rookie is #3.

After a few weeks, I bump the rookie up to #2 or if I think he's ready, make him #1. Let Hoyer and Barkley figure out who deserves to be the backup.

Unfortunately, that approach really only works (IMO) with Deshaun Watson, Mitch Trubisky, and Brad Kaaya (and I hate Kaaya).
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft

jrry32 wrote:
apples

When the defense allows 20 pts or fewer, the Cutler-led Bears are 36-7
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IotaNet


Joined: 26 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
One of the things that seems to be keeping Watson’s stock afloat is intangible: He just wins. “Quarterback wins” are a touchy topic at any level of football, but there’s no ignoring the fact that Clemson lost just two games over the last two years. “He’s played in big games, and he’s won in big games, and those are ultimately the things you’re going to fall in love with,”

I hate to throw this out here but reading that paragraph from the article reminds of something. Isn't that the same thing they all said about Tim Tebow?

I understand that Watson is light-years ahead of Tebow mechanics-wise (and in other areas) but the "he just wins" argument was used any time people would voice concerns over Tebow's shortcomings.
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G08


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IotaNet wrote:
Quote:
One of the things that seems to be keeping Watson’s stock afloat is intangible: He just wins. “Quarterback wins” are a touchy topic at any level of football, but there’s no ignoring the fact that Clemson lost just two games over the last two years. “He’s played in big games, and he’s won in big games, and those are ultimately the things you’re going to fall in love with,”

I hate to throw this out here but reading that paragraph from the article reminds of something. Isn't that the same thing they all said about Tim Tebow?

I understand that Watson is light-years ahead of Tebow mechanics-wise (and in other areas) but the "he just wins" argument was used any time people would voice concerns over Tebow's shortcomings.


Valid, I suppose.
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topwop1 wrote:
My point is you can find a franchise guy like [Derek] Carr in every draft

jrry32 wrote:
apples

When the defense allows 20 pts or fewer, the Cutler-led Bears are 36-7
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TankWilliams


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IotaNet wrote:
Quote:
One of the things that seems to be keeping Watson’s stock afloat is intangible: He just wins. “Quarterback wins” are a touchy topic at any level of football, but there’s no ignoring the fact that Clemson lost just two games over the last two years. “He’s played in big games, and he’s won in big games, and those are ultimately the things you’re going to fall in love with,”

I hate to throw this out here but reading that paragraph from the article reminds of something. Isn't that the same thing they all said about Tim Tebow?

I understand that Watson is light-years ahead of Tebow mechanics-wise (and in other areas) but the "he just wins" argument was used any time people would voice concerns over Tebow's shortcomings.


Tim Tebow "just wins" in an offense where he didn't need to have good throwing mechanics, read the defenses, or have any arm strength.

Sure, Watson also is a winner, but he's got a very good release, an NFL arm, and has a less simplified offense and practices with snaps from center.

Not every successful QB in a spread offense is a close comparison to Tebow. Sure thats also an argument that people used for both, but that doesn't mean its not valid in this case.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just do not want to pass on him and watch him become a star for the Jets, while we have a dominant 5 technique.

The QB position is that much more important than any other.
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WindyCity


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Tim Tebow could even throw the ball a little I would love to have him as my QB.


He won a playoff game without being able to throw the ball at a high school
Level.
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topwop1


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WindyCity wrote:
I just do not want to pass on him and watch him become a star for the Jets, while we have a dominant 5 technique.

The QB position is that much more important than any other.


I know someone else mentioned this already but those same Jets have had a dominant d-line for the past couple of seasons with Wilkerson, Williams and Richardson and that hasn't gotten them very far...

This further shows that getting the QB position right is paramount to any team's success.
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gah112


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TankWilliams wrote:

Tim Tebow "just wins" in an offense where he didn't need to have good throwing mechanics, read the defenses, or have any arm strength.

Sure, Watson also is a winner, but he's got a very good release, an NFL arm, and has a less simplified offense and practices with snaps from center.

Not every successful QB in a spread offense is a close comparison to Tebow. Sure thats also an argument that people used for both, but that doesn't mean its not valid in this case.


Watson is without a doubt more advanced as a passer than Tebow.

I'm not sure we can say that he plays in a more complex offense. We have no idea what his offensive responsibilities are or what types of reads he's making.

But Tebow was a 1st round pick despite those concerns and an obvious lack of arm talent. That convinces me that some team will pick Watson in the 1st round.
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Sugashane


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

topwop1 wrote:
WindyCity wrote:
I just do not want to pass on him and watch him become a star for the Jets, while we have a dominant 5 technique.

The QB position is that much more important than any other.


I know someone else mentioned this already but those same Jets have had a dominant d-line for the past couple of seasons with Wilkerson, Williams and Richardson and that hasn't gotten them very far...

This further shows that getting the QB position right is paramount to any team's success.


I've been harping that since the Barkley train stated. Lol

We need a real QB.
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chisoxguy7


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can easily see the Jets, Browns (2nd first round pick), Cardinals, or Bills trading up to #2 and picking Watson before us. I think he is the first QB off the board and Trubisky goes top-15, maybe even at 6 to the Jets if they don't trade up or the Browns at 10 if they don't trade up.

It's not a secret to any team in this league that we are looking for a quarterback, so it's quite possible we get jumped. I understand that San Fran is also QB needy and that may lead people to think they aren't going to trade out of #2. But they have a lot of needs, as our team does, and so the likelihood of them trading back is decent.

The Jets have nothing at the position and just wasted a second rounder on Hack. We are all familiar with the Browns QB situation and I think they take Garrett at 1. I will admit it's unlikely that they trade up and will take BPA at 10. The Cardinals are a real option with Palmer aging. And the Bills could be interested as well with all signs pointing to Taylor hitting the market as well as with a new GM and HC coming in.

If we are poised to go QB in round 1, I wouldn't be surprised if we were the team to move up a spot just to block anyone else from doing it.
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