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KingOfTheDot


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jag68Sid87 wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
Rockice_8 wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
Bianconero wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
Bianconero wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Sounds like Sean McDermott is headed to the Bills and Mike McCoy will likely join him Crying or Very sad


Pats have Belichick
Dolphins have Gase
Bill will have McCoy

Oh God.
I wonder if Tyrod definitely becomes available now

Let's do it


Please no
I'm confused as to why not


I like him, would have loved him in Gaileys offense but I think with us potentially moving away from spread concepts and a shotgun heavy offense to a more under center, run heavy, vertical offense I don't see him as good of a fit.

I do like his game, doesn't turn the ball ovee, a threat to run so the defense stays honest but I just don't see the skill set meshing with the offense it seems Bowles wants to employ.

Guess we'll have to see who the OC/QBC are first.


He has a beautiful deep ball not sure why he's not a fit. Taylor and play action would be a nice fit actually I think.


He's not really a natural drop back, first read, second read, third read QB.

He's more first read, run/checkdown which is why he doesn't turn the ball over. That's why I said he'd make sense for what Gailey was doing but if we're going away from that then I don't see the fit. He's also going to command a lot of money and I feel our resources will be better utilized on improving the QBs we have here already.

Strenghting the O-Line and run game some more, majority of the reps going to them two. See what we have in those we invested in. If Taylor comes here on big money it's to start, next year should be about developing our own talent and seeing what we have in them.


What talent? We didn't even feel comfortable playing Hackenberg in a completely meaningless Week 17 game against Buffalo! He is not going to be ready next year, if ever. Petty, he's OK. I do not believe he is the type of talent we need to explore further, though. It's fine having them on the roster. They'll see action at some point next season, more than likely.

In the meantime, we need a real quarterback. Enough of this crap. If there are better options available to us (and there are), then it would be stupid not to pursue them because of some patient, developmental approach notion. Sanchez, Geno...they didn't pan out, not because we weren't patient enough, but because they were never good enough. And we were never good enough around them, offensively.

If true that they want to become a more vertical offense, more run-oriented, more old-school, then there is no better candidate to run that type of offense than Tony Romo.

By the time Romo retires, Hackenberg might STILL not be ready to start for us. We could be waiting forever.


Talent is another way of saying players or team so relax first of all.

We aren't in a position to go all out and win now right now. We're in rebuilding mode and even our terrible owner recognizes that. Stop being impatient and just let things play out.

So what he didn't play in Week 17 that's irrelevant at this point, let's hire an OC and QBC and let them work with our 2 QBs and whoever else we bring in. Best man wins the job going forward.

2017 goals should be obviously to win games but we should focus on developing our players, being a tough minded team and being competitive. That's what leads to long term success going forward.

If you guys wanna keep starting over fine by me, I'm playing the long game with this regime.
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Bobby816


Joined: 21 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
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barnaby8787


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
How does Tyrod block that? If the org thinks Hack is ready, they won't sign Tyrod. If he's not ready, Tyrod likely gets a long-term deal, but the guaranteed money gets frontloaded for the most part over the first two years (Mac's favorite). So if Hack is ready, he'll get his turn to start.
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KingOfTheDot


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barnaby8787 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
How does Tyrod block that? If the org thinks Hack is ready, they won't sign Tyrod. If he's not ready, Tyrod likely gets a long-term deal, but the guaranteed money gets frontloaded for the most part over the first two years (Mac's favorite). So if Hack is ready, he'll get his turn to start.


Here's the thing, they won't know if he's ready until he gets with the OC and QBC during OTAs and Mini Camp, etc and we'd have to sign anyone in March/April before all that happens.

So we invest money in say Taylor but in camp Hack or even Petty improved enough under new coaching to where we play one of them yet we got guaranteed money rotting away on the bench or we play the guy with the contract so we get our money's worth when we have just as good of an option on the bench at just over a million in cap hits. It's tricky right now.
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NewAge wrote:
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Jag68Sid87


Joined: 04 May 2015
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe in long term vs. short term when it comes to the NFL. It's a 16-game season. Rebuilding makes sense in baseball, especially in a league without a salary cap with a 162-game schedule. It makes sense in hockey, too. In basketball, you need to find a superstar to compete. Rebuilding is one way to achieve that goal.

In football, the shelf life of an average player is just not long enough to do any kind of long-range rebuilding. What NFL team has taken a very long approach to rebuilding and had any success? Most quality NFL teams got there because they either a) drafted or acquired a franchise QB or b) hired the right man to either build the team or coach the squad. And there is also luck involved, of which we never seem to have any. The Raiders have been a team that took a while to become good again, but without investing significant money into their great O-line, it would have never happened. But they had a head-start on us because they (unlike us) drafted the right franchise QB.

Just because I want to go after a 37-year-old QB does not mean I want to continue to spin my wheels at 7-9, 8-8.

The first thing we need to do is become a respectable franchise again. Throwing two completely raw, unproven QB's to the wolves is NOT going to achieve that goal. Usually, all things being equal, I always prefer the younger option. Give me Leonard Fournette over Bilal Powell or Matt Forte as our lead back next season, all day every day. Give me Brandon Shell as RT over any FA options. Give me Robby Anderson as a starting WR next season, and get rid of one of Marshall or Decker. I like youth.

But to be able to land a Pro Bowl quarterback happens very rarely in the NFL, especially outside of the draft. I don't think going 2-14 next season will do ANYTHING for the development of either Petty or Hackenberg. All it will do is accelerate their exodus from the league.

Think about how outstanding Dak Prescott has been for the Cowboys this season. And now think about the fact his starting job was not a slam dunk when Romo got healthy. Now think about how bad Fitzpatrick was this past season, and how Petty had every opportunity in the world to take over the starting job (but was not able to do so). Now think about how Hackenberg can't even get on the field in meaningless football games.

There is a CANYON separating Tony Romo and either of our young guys right now. It is not close. A year from now, there will likely still be a significant gap. If there isn't, then that is fantastic news. But for now, give me someone we can actually compete with against the other AFC teams without pulling our hair out in frustration.

And if he gets hurt, then your plan A (playing, developing the kids) becomes plan B. Nothing wrong with that.

These guys don't need healthy competition. They need a mentor, somebody who can show them how to actually win football games at the highest level, and perform at a high level while doing so. Fitzpatrick gave both youngsters every chance to compete for the job. Neither was ready to take it.

Yes, I do agree that adding a quality OC and QB coach is primordial to turning this thing around as well. But there is nothing wrong with also bringing in a veteran QB to act as a coach in uniform, of sorts.

I would try to go young at all other positions on the field, both sides of the ball, but try to get the best possible quarterback available. That position is too important.
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barnaby8787


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheDot wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
How does Tyrod block that? If the org thinks Hack is ready, they won't sign Tyrod. If he's not ready, Tyrod likely gets a long-term deal, but the guaranteed money gets frontloaded for the most part over the first two years (Mac's favorite). So if Hack is ready, he'll get his turn to start.


Here's the thing, they won't know if he's ready until he gets with the OC and QBC during OTAs and Mini Camp, etc and we'd have to sign anyone in March/April before all that happens.

So we invest money in say Taylor but in camp Hack or even Petty improved enough under new coaching to where we play one of them yet we got guaranteed money rotting away on the bench or we play the guy with the contract so we get our money's worth when we have just as good of an option on the bench at just over a million in cap hits. It's tricky right now.
I'd hope Bowles would have some idea on where Hack is at by now bud
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Jag68Sid87


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheDot wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
How does Tyrod block that? If the org thinks Hack is ready, they won't sign Tyrod. If he's not ready, Tyrod likely gets a long-term deal, but the guaranteed money gets frontloaded for the most part over the first two years (Mac's favorite). So if Hack is ready, he'll get his turn to start.


Here's the thing, they won't know if he's ready until he gets with the OC and QBC during OTAs and Mini Camp, etc and we'd have to sign anyone in March/April before all that happens.

So we invest money in say Taylor but in camp Hack or even Petty improved enough under new coaching to where we play one of them yet we got guaranteed money rotting away on the bench or we play the guy with the contract so we get our money's worth when we have just as good of an option on the bench at just over a million in cap hits. It's tricky right now.


It isn't tricky at all. The Seahawks did not know what they had in Russell Wilson. They signed Matt Flynn to stupid money. Wilson beat him out, Flynn was gone.

Bringing in an established QB is the only thing that makes sense right now. IF Petty or Hackenberg miraculously start looking amazing, then that would be amazing for us. We deal with the fallout of having just brought in another guy, but at least we would have options.

We don't have an established QB. Dallas has two. Both are problems to some degree, but one is a nice problem to have and the other is a disaster.

I think you know which one's which.
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KingOfTheDot


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barnaby8787 wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
How does Tyrod block that? If the org thinks Hack is ready, they won't sign Tyrod. If he's not ready, Tyrod likely gets a long-term deal, but the guaranteed money gets frontloaded for the most part over the first two years (Mac's favorite). So if Hack is ready, he'll get his turn to start.


Here's the thing, they won't know if he's ready until he gets with the OC and QBC during OTAs and Mini Camp, etc and we'd have to sign anyone in March/April before all that happens.

So we invest money in say Taylor but in camp Hack or even Petty improved enough under new coaching to where we play one of them yet we got guaranteed money rotting away on the bench or we play the guy with the contract so we get our money's worth when we have just as good of an option on the bench at just over a million in cap hits. It's tricky right now.
I'd hope Bowles would have some idea on where Hack is at by now bud

Would he? They pretty much said he barely got reps and now there's a new offense being installed.

All Bowles really acknowledged was he made improvement over the course of the season but how that translates to new system is all unclear until we see it in action.
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#LeahStrong

Quote:
@CRO31: @KellenWinslowJr you wish you were as good as your dad. Have you been to TARGET lately?


NewAge wrote:
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barnaby8787


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheDot wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
How does Tyrod block that? If the org thinks Hack is ready, they won't sign Tyrod. If he's not ready, Tyrod likely gets a long-term deal, but the guaranteed money gets frontloaded for the most part over the first two years (Mac's favorite). So if Hack is ready, he'll get his turn to start.


Here's the thing, they won't know if he's ready until he gets with the OC and QBC during OTAs and Mini Camp, etc and we'd have to sign anyone in March/April before all that happens.

So we invest money in say Taylor but in camp Hack or even Petty improved enough under new coaching to where we play one of them yet we got guaranteed money rotting away on the bench or we play the guy with the contract so we get our money's worth when we have just as good of an option on the bench at just over a million in cap hits. It's tricky right now.
I'd hope Bowles would have some idea on where Hack is at by now bud

Would he? They pretty much said he barely got reps and now there's a new offense being installed.

All Bowles really acknowledged was he made improvement over the course of the season but how that translates to new system is all unclear until we see it in action.
Of course he would. He still saw him in the pre-season and in his limited reps. He and Mac have some idea. If they didn't, they'd be going into the off-season blind.
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Bobby816


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

barnaby8787 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
How does Tyrod block that? If the org thinks Hack is ready, they won't sign Tyrod. If he's not ready, Tyrod likely gets a long-term deal, but the guaranteed money gets frontloaded for the most part over the first two years (Mac's favorite). So if Hack is ready, he'll get his turn to start.

Signing Taylor completely blocks Hack unless Taylor is signed and is just awful here. Taylor would get no less than 2 years guaranteed, my guess would be 3 actually though. If it was 3 Hack would never start before his contract expired unless Taylor got injured or just sucked. If it's 2 years guaranteed... Taylor would be resigned if he was a success here but at that point he'd be 30. And if he sucked, we'd still no nothing about Hack after 3 years on the bench. Like I've stated, I doubt Taylor goes anywhere to begin with and even if cut that 15-20mill can be better served elsewhere. Hack needs the opportunity to play. Taylor blocks that along with taking up a huge chunk of cap space.
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KingOfTheDot


Joined: 15 Oct 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jag68Sid87 wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
How does Tyrod block that? If the org thinks Hack is ready, they won't sign Tyrod. If he's not ready, Tyrod likely gets a long-term deal, but the guaranteed money gets frontloaded for the most part over the first two years (Mac's favorite). So if Hack is ready, he'll get his turn to start.


Here's the thing, they won't know if he's ready until he gets with the OC and QBC during OTAs and Mini Camp, etc and we'd have to sign anyone in March/April before all that happens.

So we invest money in say Taylor but in camp Hack or even Petty improved enough under new coaching to where we play one of them yet we got guaranteed money rotting away on the bench or we play the guy with the contract so we get our money's worth when we have just as good of an option on the bench at just over a million in cap hits. It's tricky right now.


It isn't tricky at all. The Seahawks did not know what they had in Russell Wilson. They signed Matt Flynn to stupid money. Wilson beat him out, Flynn was gone.

Bringing in an established QB is the only thing that makes sense right now. IF Petty or Hackenberg miraculously start looking amazing, then that would be amazing for us. We deal with the fallout of having just brought in another guy, but at least we would have options.

We don't have an established QB. Dallas has two. Both are problems to some degree, but one is a nice problem to have and the other is a disaster.

I think you know which one's which.


Flynn was signed before Wilson was drafted.

I'm not against bringing in another QB but our young QBs to get a real shot at developing and not minimal reps like last year.

Bringing in a Romo signals we're going for it and that's a bad idea IMO.
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Quote:
@CRO31: @KellenWinslowJr you wish you were as good as your dad. Have you been to TARGET lately?


NewAge wrote:
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barnaby8787


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bobby816 wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
How does Tyrod block that? If the org thinks Hack is ready, they won't sign Tyrod. If he's not ready, Tyrod likely gets a long-term deal, but the guaranteed money gets frontloaded for the most part over the first two years (Mac's favorite). So if Hack is ready, he'll get his turn to start.

Signing Taylor completely blocks Hack unless Taylor is signed and is just awful here. Taylor would get no less than 2 years guaranteed, my guess would be 3 actually though. If it was 3 Hack would never start before his contract expired unless Taylor got injured or just sucked. If it's 2 years guaranteed... Taylor would be resigned if he was a success here but at that point he'd be 30. And if he sucked, we'd still no nothing about Hack after 3 years on the bench. Like I've stated, I doubt Taylor goes anywhere to begin with and even if cut that 15-20mill can be better served elsewhere. Hack needs the opportunity to play. Taylor blocks that along with taking up a huge chunk of cap space.
But here's the thing, right? If Tyrod comes in and plays lights out, we're good to go. If Tyrod comes in and plays ok or bad, Hack will get his shot no matter what. From everything we've seen/heard, nobody really knows for sure, but it sounds like Hack likely isn't as ready as we all probably want him to be. Hack will get a ton of reps in the pre-season and will get some spot starts and if he plays really well, he'll get his chance.
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barnaby8787


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also guys, just to throw this out there, there is zero chance that this team doesn't add a potential starter in the off-season. We're not going to sign some beat up veteran because if this team does not produce next year, Mac and Bowles are out of a job. We can debate if we're better off with a one year stop gap like Romo, a guy like Tyrod, or a pick like Trubisky, but either way, we're not going into next year with Hack, Petty, and a career backup QB.
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Rockice_8


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KingOfTheDot wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
How does Tyrod block that? If the org thinks Hack is ready, they won't sign Tyrod. If he's not ready, Tyrod likely gets a long-term deal, but the guaranteed money gets frontloaded for the most part over the first two years (Mac's favorite). So if Hack is ready, he'll get his turn to start.


Here's the thing, they won't know if he's ready until he gets with the OC and QBC during OTAs and Mini Camp, etc and we'd have to sign anyone in March/April before all that happens.

So we invest money in say Taylor but in camp Hack or even Petty improved enough under new coaching to where we play one of them yet we got guaranteed money rotting away on the bench or we play the guy with the contract so we get our money's worth when we have just as good of an option on the bench at just over a million in cap hits. It's tricky right now.


Its not really tricky at all for Bowles and Mac. They need to improve and win games or they'll be fired possibly before next year even ends.

Taylor would be a 2 year deal essentially. Doubt anyone gives him a guaranteed 3rd year.

Petty is awful lets be real here, he's not a long term answer. Hack looks like a 2018 guy. You don't go from not getting snaps to starter especially when they are handling him with kid gloves. Maybe next year he shows improvement enough to play late in the year if/when we're out of it. Then by 2018 he could be actually pushing for a starting job. Yeah you then have an 18M dollar backup QB for a year if he beats out Taylor but that's ok when you are paying him nothing still and can get out from under Taylor in 2019.

It's all well and good to learn under center if your Hack and win 2 games next year so we can get a high pick and some fans are ok with that. The coaches however aren't and will want to win.

Very little downside to signing Taylor other than we might not get a top 3 pick anymore because he's a solid QB.
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Rich51


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rockice_8 wrote:
KingOfTheDot wrote:
barnaby8787 wrote:
Bobby816 wrote:
Investing 15-20mill per season when Hack could be just as good is my issue. Hack needs an opportunity and Tyrod blocks that.
How does Tyrod block that? If the org thinks Hack is ready, they won't sign Tyrod. If he's not ready, Tyrod likely gets a long-term deal, but the guaranteed money gets frontloaded for the most part over the first two years (Mac's favorite). So if Hack is ready, he'll get his turn to start.


Here's the thing, they won't know if he's ready until he gets with the OC and QBC during OTAs and Mini Camp, etc and we'd have to sign anyone in March/April before all that happens.

So we invest money in say Taylor but in camp Hack or even Petty improved enough under new coaching to where we play one of them yet we got guaranteed money rotting away on the bench or we play the guy with the contract so we get our money's worth when we have just as good of an option on the bench at just over a million in cap hits. It's tricky right now.


Its not really tricky at all for Bowles and Mac. They need to improve and win games or they'll be fired possibly before next year even ends.

Taylor would be a 2 year deal essentially. Doubt anyone gives him a guaranteed 3rd year.

Petty is awful lets be real here, he's not a long term answer. Hack looks like a 2018 guy. You don't go from not getting snaps to starter especially when they are handling him with kid gloves. Maybe next year he shows improvement enough to play late in the year if/when we're out of it. Then by 2018 he could be actually pushing for a starting job. Yeah you then have an 18M dollar backup QB for a year if he beats out Taylor but that's ok when you are paying him nothing still and can get out from under Taylor in 2019.

It's all well and good to learn under center if your Hack and win 2 games next year so we can get a high pick and some fans are ok with that. The coaches however aren't and will want to win.

Very little downside to signing Taylor other than we might not get a top 3 pick anymore because he's a solid QB.


Maybe they handled Hackenberg with kid gloves because Gailey is 64 and couldn't relate to a 21 year old. A 30 something OC could have a better connection.

I don't see Buffalo giving up on Taylor. What options do they have? Jones, Manual, a rookie? Same at Washington with Cousins. They have McCoy and Sudfeld.
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