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Starting to Look Like Bruce Allen May Be the Cancer
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 10600
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that McCloughan has been an F in free agency and has been overrated as a drafted so far. He hasn't made the team better through free agency and barely has through the draft. The only FA is Norman that's worked out while other teams have totally made their defenses better in the same time through the draft and FA.

He's been a failure in FA so far, saying he hasn't been because it hasn't hurt our cap - which isn't even his job, it's Allen & Shaffer's - is ridiculous.

You have no defense for McCloughan's failures in FA except that they were "cheap" well that's obvious because our defense has been god awful in his tenure as GM because he hasn't invested enough talent into the defense!
Your impatience is the exact crap attitude that has gotten this organization in trouble the past 20 years. Calling someone a failure two years into a complete rebuild is moronic. Judging his two draft classes this soon is a fools errand.
Man, you seriously always get my opinions wrong!

I'm not being impatient, I never once said that McCloughan should be fired or that his draft picks couldn't develop in another year or two to be good players for us. I'm one of Doctson, Cravens, Smith, Jones, Fuller, Kouandijo, Sudfeld, Marshall and Ioannidis' biggest fans and think in time they will develop into good players for us but I do think his drafts have been a bit overrated, Bruce Allen's was better in 2014 in my mind.

I said so far McCloughan has been a failure in free agency - except for Norman - and if we want to be a better than average team in the future we are going to have to hit on some free agent signings. At least two or so.


Hindsight bias. How did that 2014 class look after their rookie seasons?
I see what you are saying but keep in mind that I always liked Allen's free agent and draft class so it's not hindsight if I always liked Allen's draft and free agent class file 2014.


So that's just personal bias. Not backed by fact.

Anyway, one thing to note about the 2016 draft class is that we added two picks to the 2017 draft class. That will be big for us this year.
How can it be biased if it's actually true? It's not an option, it's a fact that the 2014 offseaon was a good one for Bruce Allen both in FA & the draft.


If you felt better about the 2014 draft class than the 2016 draft class immediately after the draft, before any games were played, that is personal bias. If you felt better about the 2014 draft class than the 2016 draft class immediately after their rookie seasons, it is still personal bias, because, in reality, their impacts were about equal.

If you felt better about the 2014 draft class after watching them play for 3 seasons than you felt about the 2016 draft class after watching them play for 1, then that is hindsight bias, because you should only be judging the draft classes based on equal points in their respective timelines.

So which is it?
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 19354
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that McCloughan has been an F in free agency and has been overrated as a drafted so far. He hasn't made the team better through free agency and barely has through the draft. The only FA is Norman that's worked out while other teams have totally made their defenses better in the same time through the draft and FA.

He's been a failure in FA so far, saying he hasn't been because it hasn't hurt our cap - which isn't even his job, it's Allen & Shaffer's - is ridiculous.

You have no defense for McCloughan's failures in FA except that they were "cheap" well that's obvious because our defense has been god awful in his tenure as GM because he hasn't invested enough talent into the defense!
Your impatience is the exact crap attitude that has gotten this organization in trouble the past 20 years. Calling someone a failure two years into a complete rebuild is moronic. Judging his two draft classes this soon is a fools errand.
Man, you seriously always get my opinions wrong!

I'm not being impatient, I never once said that McCloughan should be fired or that his draft picks couldn't develop in another year or two to be good players for us. I'm one of Doctson, Cravens, Smith, Jones, Fuller, Kouandijo, Sudfeld, Marshall and Ioannidis' biggest fans and think in time they will develop into good players for us but I do think his drafts have been a bit overrated, Bruce Allen's was better in 2014 in my mind.

I said so far McCloughan has been a failure in free agency - except for Norman - and if we want to be a better than average team in the future we are going to have to hit on some free agent signings. At least two or so.


Hindsight bias. How did that 2014 class look after their rookie seasons?
I see what you are saying but keep in mind that I always liked Allen's free agent and draft class so it's not hindsight if I always liked Allen's draft and free agent class file 2014.


So that's just personal bias. Not backed by fact.

Anyway, one thing to note about the 2016 draft class is that we added two picks to the 2017 draft class. That will be big for us this year.
How can it be biased if it's actually true? It's not an option, it's a fact that the 2014 offseaon was a good one for Bruce Allen both in FA & the draft.
Allen purchased Scott McCloughan's scouting analysis for that draft.
Allen still selected the players, he just used McCloughan's scouting services analysis of those players.

Hey, maybe McCloughan should purchase Bruce Allen's scouting services for his FA signings because so far McCloughan has sucked at free agency except for Norman and in 2014 Allen was good! Laughing
Remind me other than Desean Jackson who did we sign in FA in 2014 that was good?
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 81147
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that McCloughan has been an F in free agency and has been overrated as a drafted so far. He hasn't made the team better through free agency and barely has through the draft. The only FA is Norman that's worked out while other teams have totally made their defenses better in the same time through the draft and FA.

He's been a failure in FA so far, saying he hasn't been because it hasn't hurt our cap - which isn't even his job, it's Allen & Shaffer's - is ridiculous.

You have no defense for McCloughan's failures in FA except that they were "cheap" well that's obvious because our defense has been god awful in his tenure as GM because he hasn't invested enough talent into the defense!
Your impatience is the exact crap attitude that has gotten this organization in trouble the past 20 years. Calling someone a failure two years into a complete rebuild is moronic. Judging his two draft classes this soon is a fools errand.
Man, you seriously always get my opinions wrong!

I'm not being impatient, I never once said that McCloughan should be fired or that his draft picks couldn't develop in another year or two to be good players for us. I'm one of Doctson, Cravens, Smith, Jones, Fuller, Kouandijo, Sudfeld, Marshall and Ioannidis' biggest fans and think in time they will develop into good players for us but I do think his drafts have been a bit overrated, Bruce Allen's was better in 2014 in my mind.

I said so far McCloughan has been a failure in free agency - except for Norman - and if we want to be a better than average team in the future we are going to have to hit on some free agent signings. At least two or so.


Hindsight bias. How did that 2014 class look after their rookie seasons?
I see what you are saying but keep in mind that I always liked Allen's free agent and draft class so it's not hindsight if I always liked Allen's draft and free agent class file 2014.


So that's just personal bias. Not backed by fact.

Anyway, one thing to note about the 2016 draft class is that we added two picks to the 2017 draft class. That will be big for us this year.
How can it be biased if it's actually true? It's not an option, it's a fact that the 2014 offseaon was a good one for Bruce Allen both in FA & the draft.
Allen purchased Scott McCloughan's scouting analysis for that draft.
Allen still selected the players, he just used McCloughan's scouting services analysis of those players.

Hey, maybe McCloughan should purchase Bruce Allen's scouting services for his FA signings because so far McCloughan has sucked at free agency except for Norman and in 2014 Allen was good! Laughing
Remind me other than Desean Jackson who did we sign in FA in 2014 that was good?
Jason Hatcher was our best defensive lineman for the two years he was on our team.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 19354
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that McCloughan has been an F in free agency and has been overrated as a drafted so far. He hasn't made the team better through free agency and barely has through the draft. The only FA is Norman that's worked out while other teams have totally made their defenses better in the same time through the draft and FA.

He's been a failure in FA so far, saying he hasn't been because it hasn't hurt our cap - which isn't even his job, it's Allen & Shaffer's - is ridiculous.

You have no defense for McCloughan's failures in FA except that they were "cheap" well that's obvious because our defense has been god awful in his tenure as GM because he hasn't invested enough talent into the defense!
Your impatience is the exact crap attitude that has gotten this organization in trouble the past 20 years. Calling someone a failure two years into a complete rebuild is moronic. Judging his two draft classes this soon is a fools errand.
Man, you seriously always get my opinions wrong!

I'm not being impatient, I never once said that McCloughan should be fired or that his draft picks couldn't develop in another year or two to be good players for us. I'm one of Doctson, Cravens, Smith, Jones, Fuller, Kouandijo, Sudfeld, Marshall and Ioannidis' biggest fans and think in time they will develop into good players for us but I do think his drafts have been a bit overrated, Bruce Allen's was better in 2014 in my mind.

I said so far McCloughan has been a failure in free agency - except for Norman - and if we want to be a better than average team in the future we are going to have to hit on some free agent signings. At least two or so.


Hindsight bias. How did that 2014 class look after their rookie seasons?
I see what you are saying but keep in mind that I always liked Allen's free agent and draft class so it's not hindsight if I always liked Allen's draft and free agent class file 2014.


So that's just personal bias. Not backed by fact.

Anyway, one thing to note about the 2016 draft class is that we added two picks to the 2017 draft class. That will be big for us this year.
How can it be biased if it's actually true? It's not an option, it's a fact that the 2014 offseaon was a good one for Bruce Allen both in FA & the draft.
Allen purchased Scott McCloughan's scouting analysis for that draft.
Allen still selected the players, he just used McCloughan's scouting services analysis of those players.

Hey, maybe McCloughan should purchase Bruce Allen's scouting services for his FA signings because so far McCloughan has sucked at free agency except for Norman and in 2014 Allen was good! Laughing
Remind me other than Desean Jackson who did we sign in FA in 2014 that was good?
Jason Hatcher was our best defensive lineman for the two years he was on our team.
So giving a 32 year old a $27.5 mil contract for 1 year of decent production (he sucked his 2nd year) is a good signing? Got it. Your posts are so ridiculous.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that McCloughan has been an F in free agency and has been overrated as a drafted so far. He hasn't made the team better through free agency and barely has through the draft. The only FA is Norman that's worked out while other teams have totally made their defenses better in the same time through the draft and FA.

He's been a failure in FA so far, saying he hasn't been because it hasn't hurt our cap - which isn't even his job, it's Allen & Shaffer's - is ridiculous.

You have no defense for McCloughan's failures in FA except that they were "cheap" well that's obvious because our defense has been god awful in his tenure as GM because he hasn't invested enough talent into the defense!
Your impatience is the exact crap attitude that has gotten this organization in trouble the past 20 years. Calling someone a failure two years into a complete rebuild is moronic. Judging his two draft classes this soon is a fools errand.
Man, you seriously always get my opinions wrong!

I'm not being impatient, I never once said that McCloughan should be fired or that his draft picks couldn't develop in another year or two to be good players for us. I'm one of Doctson, Cravens, Smith, Jones, Fuller, Kouandijo, Sudfeld, Marshall and Ioannidis' biggest fans and think in time they will develop into good players for us but I do think his drafts have been a bit overrated, Bruce Allen's was better in 2014 in my mind.

I said so far McCloughan has been a failure in free agency - except for Norman - and if we want to be a better than average team in the future we are going to have to hit on some free agent signings. At least two or so.


Hindsight bias. How did that 2014 class look after their rookie seasons?
I see what you are saying but keep in mind that I always liked Allen's free agent and draft class so it's not hindsight if I always liked Allen's draft and free agent class file 2014.


So that's just personal bias. Not backed by fact.

Anyway, one thing to note about the 2016 draft class is that we added two picks to the 2017 draft class. That will be big for us this year.
How can it be biased if it's actually true? It's not an option, it's a fact that the 2014 offseaon was a good one for Bruce Allen both in FA & the draft.


If you felt better about the 2014 draft class than the 2016 draft class immediately after the draft, before any games were played, that is personal bias. If you felt better about the 2014 draft class than the 2016 draft class immediately after their rookie seasons, it is still personal bias, because, in reality, their impacts were about equal.

If you felt better about the 2014 draft class after watching them play for 3 seasons than you felt about the 2016 draft class after watching them play for 1, then that is hindsight bias, because you should only be judging the draft classes based on equal points in their respective timelines.

So which is it?
You're telling me you didn't like drafting a OLB/DE, an OT, a C/G, a CB that most said would have went round 1 in the 2015 draft if we had went back to school?

It's not that I knew those players were going to work out after we drafted them in 2014, it's that almost all Redskins fans liked the positions we drafted better because we addressed things like OL, DE/OLB and everyone said we got a steal in the 4th with the CB we selected.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 81147
Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that McCloughan has been an F in free agency and has been overrated as a drafted so far. He hasn't made the team better through free agency and barely has through the draft. The only FA is Norman that's worked out while other teams have totally made their defenses better in the same time through the draft and FA.

He's been a failure in FA so far, saying he hasn't been because it hasn't hurt our cap - which isn't even his job, it's Allen & Shaffer's - is ridiculous.

You have no defense for McCloughan's failures in FA except that they were "cheap" well that's obvious because our defense has been god awful in his tenure as GM because he hasn't invested enough talent into the defense!
Your impatience is the exact crap attitude that has gotten this organization in trouble the past 20 years. Calling someone a failure two years into a complete rebuild is moronic. Judging his two draft classes this soon is a fools errand.
Man, you seriously always get my opinions wrong!

I'm not being impatient, I never once said that McCloughan should be fired or that his draft picks couldn't develop in another year or two to be good players for us. I'm one of Doctson, Cravens, Smith, Jones, Fuller, Kouandijo, Sudfeld, Marshall and Ioannidis' biggest fans and think in time they will develop into good players for us but I do think his drafts have been a bit overrated, Bruce Allen's was better in 2014 in my mind.

I said so far McCloughan has been a failure in free agency - except for Norman - and if we want to be a better than average team in the future we are going to have to hit on some free agent signings. At least two or so.


Hindsight bias. How did that 2014 class look after their rookie seasons?
I see what you are saying but keep in mind that I always liked Allen's free agent and draft class so it's not hindsight if I always liked Allen's draft and free agent class file 2014.


So that's just personal bias. Not backed by fact.

Anyway, one thing to note about the 2016 draft class is that we added two picks to the 2017 draft class. That will be big for us this year.
How can it be biased if it's actually true? It's not an option, it's a fact that the 2014 offseaon was a good one for Bruce Allen both in FA & the draft.
Allen purchased Scott McCloughan's scouting analysis for that draft.
Allen still selected the players, he just used McCloughan's scouting services analysis of those players.

Hey, maybe McCloughan should purchase Bruce Allen's scouting services for his FA signings because so far McCloughan has sucked at free agency except for Norman and in 2014 Allen was good! Laughing
Remind me other than Desean Jackson who did we sign in FA in 2014 that was good?
Jason Hatcher was our best defensive lineman for the two years he was on our team.
So giving a 32 year old a $27.5 mil contract for 1 year of decent production (he sucked his 2nd year) is a good signing? Got it. Your posts are so ridiculous.
He was great in 2014 and still good for us in 2015, he wasn't amazing and we got out of his contract without having to take a big losss once again because of the great work and Allen.

He sure as hell was a better signing than Knighton, Paea and Reyes wasn't he?

My posts are ridiculous? You're freaking defending a Gm's choices in free agency the past two seasons that have been the absolute worst in the NFL and it's a huge reason why our team is stuck as just average despite how well
the good draft picks and good free agent signings Shanahan and Allen made from 2010-2014 have made this passing offense the 3rd best in the NFL so look in the mirror!
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"God made certain people to play football... Sean was one" JG


Last edited by turtle28 on Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HTTRG3Dynasty


Joined: 03 Apr 2012
Posts: 10600
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that McCloughan has been an F in free agency and has been overrated as a drafted so far. He hasn't made the team better through free agency and barely has through the draft. The only FA is Norman that's worked out while other teams have totally made their defenses better in the same time through the draft and FA.

He's been a failure in FA so far, saying he hasn't been because it hasn't hurt our cap - which isn't even his job, it's Allen & Shaffer's - is ridiculous.

You have no defense for McCloughan's failures in FA except that they were "cheap" well that's obvious because our defense has been god awful in his tenure as GM because he hasn't invested enough talent into the defense!
Your impatience is the exact crap attitude that has gotten this organization in trouble the past 20 years. Calling someone a failure two years into a complete rebuild is moronic. Judging his two draft classes this soon is a fools errand.
Man, you seriously always get my opinions wrong!

I'm not being impatient, I never once said that McCloughan should be fired or that his draft picks couldn't develop in another year or two to be good players for us. I'm one of Doctson, Cravens, Smith, Jones, Fuller, Kouandijo, Sudfeld, Marshall and Ioannidis' biggest fans and think in time they will develop into good players for us but I do think his drafts have been a bit overrated, Bruce Allen's was better in 2014 in my mind.

I said so far McCloughan has been a failure in free agency - except for Norman - and if we want to be a better than average team in the future we are going to have to hit on some free agent signings. At least two or so.


Hindsight bias. How did that 2014 class look after their rookie seasons?
I see what you are saying but keep in mind that I always liked Allen's free agent and draft class so it's not hindsight if I always liked Allen's draft and free agent class file 2014.


So that's just personal bias. Not backed by fact.

Anyway, one thing to note about the 2016 draft class is that we added two picks to the 2017 draft class. That will be big for us this year.
How can it be biased if it's actually true? It's not an option, it's a fact that the 2014 offseaon was a good one for Bruce Allen both in FA & the draft.


If you felt better about the 2014 draft class than the 2016 draft class immediately after the draft, before any games were played, that is personal bias. If you felt better about the 2014 draft class than the 2016 draft class immediately after their rookie seasons, it is still personal bias, because, in reality, their impacts were about equal.

If you felt better about the 2014 draft class after watching them play for 3 seasons than you felt about the 2016 draft class after watching them play for 1, then that is hindsight bias, because you should only be judging the draft classes based on equal points in their respective timelines.

So which is it?
You're telling me you didn't like drafting a OLB/DE, an OT, a C/G, a CB that most said would have went round 1 in the 2015 draft if we had went back to school?

It's not that I knew those players were going to work out after we drafted them in 2014, it's that almost all Redskins fans liked the positions we drafted better because we addressed things like OL, DE/OLB and everyone said we got a steal in the 4th with the CB we selected.


So you're happy coming out of a draft when we draft for need? Forget the player. All about the position. Got it.

By the way everyone said we got a steal with Fuller (would have been a 1st rounder without the injury) too.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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Location: MD/DC/VA depends on the hr!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that McCloughan has been an F in free agency and has been overrated as a drafted so far. He hasn't made the team better through free agency and barely has through the draft. The only FA is Norman that's worked out while other teams have totally made their defenses better in the same time through the draft and FA.

He's been a failure in FA so far, saying he hasn't been because it hasn't hurt our cap - which isn't even his job, it's Allen & Shaffer's - is ridiculous.

You have no defense for McCloughan's failures in FA except that they were "cheap" well that's obvious because our defense has been god awful in his tenure as GM because he hasn't invested enough talent into the defense!
Your impatience is the exact crap attitude that has gotten this organization in trouble the past 20 years. Calling someone a failure two years into a complete rebuild is moronic. Judging his two draft classes this soon is a fools errand.
Man, you seriously always get my opinions wrong!

I'm not being impatient, I never once said that McCloughan should be fired or that his draft picks couldn't develop in another year or two to be good players for us. I'm one of Doctson, Cravens, Smith, Jones, Fuller, Kouandijo, Sudfeld, Marshall and Ioannidis' biggest fans and think in time they will develop into good players for us but I do think his drafts have been a bit overrated, Bruce Allen's was better in 2014 in my mind.

I said so far McCloughan has been a failure in free agency - except for Norman - and if we want to be a better than average team in the future we are going to have to hit on some free agent signings. At least two or so.


Hindsight bias. How did that 2014 class look after their rookie seasons?
I see what you are saying but keep in mind that I always liked Allen's free agent and draft class so it's not hindsight if I always liked Allen's draft and free agent class file 2014.


So that's just personal bias. Not backed by fact.

Anyway, one thing to note about the 2016 draft class is that we added two picks to the 2017 draft class. That will be big for us this year.
How can it be biased if it's actually true? It's not an option, it's a fact that the 2014 offseaon was a good one for Bruce Allen both in FA & the draft.


If you felt better about the 2014 draft class than the 2016 draft class immediately after the draft, before any games were played, that is personal bias. If you felt better about the 2014 draft class than the 2016 draft class immediately after their rookie seasons, it is still personal bias, because, in reality, their impacts were about equal.

If you felt better about the 2014 draft class after watching them play for 3 seasons than you felt about the 2016 draft class after watching them play for 1, then that is hindsight bias, because you should only be judging the draft classes based on equal points in their respective timelines.

So which is it?
You're telling me you didn't like drafting a OLB/DE, an OT, a C/G, a CB that most said would have went round 1 in the 2015 draft if we had went back to school?

It's not that I knew those players were going to work out after we drafted them in 2014, it's that almost all Redskins fans liked the positions we drafted better because we addressed things like OL, DE/OLB and everyone said we got a steal in the 4th with the CB we selected.


So you're happy coming out of a draft when we draft for need? Forget the player. All about the position. Got it.

By the way everyone said we got a steal with Fuller (would have been a 1st rounder without the injury) too.
No that's not what I said. No point in discussing it though because like Mknight you either don't understand what I'm trying to say or you just want to spin it however you want to fit your own narrative.

As for Fuller, I think he'll still be good but unlike Breeland, Fuller didn't show it as much in his rookie season so again, advantage Allen's 2014 offseaon over McCloughan's 2015 & 16 offseasons and Allen took Breeland a round later than McCloughan took Fuller.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 19354
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that McCloughan has been an F in free agency and has been overrated as a drafted so far. He hasn't made the team better through free agency and barely has through the draft. The only FA is Norman that's worked out while other teams have totally made their defenses better in the same time through the draft and FA.

He's been a failure in FA so far, saying he hasn't been because it hasn't hurt our cap - which isn't even his job, it's Allen & Shaffer's - is ridiculous.

You have no defense for McCloughan's failures in FA except that they were "cheap" well that's obvious because our defense has been god awful in his tenure as GM because he hasn't invested enough talent into the defense!
Your impatience is the exact crap attitude that has gotten this organization in trouble the past 20 years. Calling someone a failure two years into a complete rebuild is moronic. Judging his two draft classes this soon is a fools errand.
Man, you seriously always get my opinions wrong!

I'm not being impatient, I never once said that McCloughan should be fired or that his draft picks couldn't develop in another year or two to be good players for us. I'm one of Doctson, Cravens, Smith, Jones, Fuller, Kouandijo, Sudfeld, Marshall and Ioannidis' biggest fans and think in time they will develop into good players for us but I do think his drafts have been a bit overrated, Bruce Allen's was better in 2014 in my mind.

I said so far McCloughan has been a failure in free agency - except for Norman - and if we want to be a better than average team in the future we are going to have to hit on some free agent signings. At least two or so.


Hindsight bias. How did that 2014 class look after their rookie seasons?
I see what you are saying but keep in mind that I always liked Allen's free agent and draft class so it's not hindsight if I always liked Allen's draft and free agent class file 2014.


So that's just personal bias. Not backed by fact.

Anyway, one thing to note about the 2016 draft class is that we added two picks to the 2017 draft class. That will be big for us this year.
How can it be biased if it's actually true? It's not an option, it's a fact that the 2014 offseaon was a good one for Bruce Allen both in FA & the draft.
Allen purchased Scott McCloughan's scouting analysis for that draft.
Allen still selected the players, he just used McCloughan's scouting services analysis of those players.

Hey, maybe McCloughan should purchase Bruce Allen's scouting services for his FA signings because so far McCloughan has sucked at free agency except for Norman and in 2014 Allen was good! Laughing
Remind me other than Desean Jackson who did we sign in FA in 2014 that was good?
Jason Hatcher was our best defensive lineman for the two years he was on our team.
So giving a 32 year old a $27.5 mil contract for 1 year of decent production (he sucked his 2nd year) is a good signing? Got it. Your posts are so ridiculous.
He was great in 2014 and still good for us in 2015, he wasn't amazing and we got out of his contract without having to take a big losss once again because of the great work and Allen.

He sure as hell was a better signing than Knighton, Paea and Reyes wasn't he?

My posts are ridiculous? You're freaking defending a Gm's choices in free agency the past two seasons that have been the absolute worst in the NFL and it's a huge reason why our team is stuck as just average despite how well
the good draft picks and good free agent signings Shanahan and Allen made from 2010-2014 have made this passing offense the 3rd best in the NFL so look in the mirror!
Yes your posts are ridiculous. Worst in the NFL? You ruin this forum for me. You completely dumb down any conversation with the dumbest most ignorant posts on this website.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha! Mknight, McCloughan's free agency signings - except for Norman - have been awful and haven't helped this team become better than average. I still don't understand how you can deny that but you can believe what you want, unlike you I'm not going to personally attack you in thread after thread just because we disagree. You're getting too worked up over something that really means nothing. Have a good night and go spend time with your wife.
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
MKnight82 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that McCloughan has been an F in free agency and has been overrated as a drafted so far. He hasn't made the team better through free agency and barely has through the draft. The only FA is Norman that's worked out while other teams have totally made their defenses better in the same time through the draft and FA.

He's been a failure in FA so far, saying he hasn't been because it hasn't hurt our cap - which isn't even his job, it's Allen & Shaffer's - is ridiculous.

You have no defense for McCloughan's failures in FA except that they were "cheap" well that's obvious because our defense has been god awful in his tenure as GM because he hasn't invested enough talent into the defense!
Your impatience is the exact crap attitude that has gotten this organization in trouble the past 20 years. Calling someone a failure two years into a complete rebuild is moronic. Judging his two draft classes this soon is a fools errand.
Man, you seriously always get my opinions wrong!

I'm not being impatient, I never once said that McCloughan should be fired or that his draft picks couldn't develop in another year or two to be good players for us. I'm one of Doctson, Cravens, Smith, Jones, Fuller, Kouandijo, Sudfeld, Marshall and Ioannidis' biggest fans and think in time they will develop into good players for us but I do think his drafts have been a bit overrated, Bruce Allen's was better in 2014 in my mind.

I said so far McCloughan has been a failure in free agency - except for Norman - and if we want to be a better than average team in the future we are going to have to hit on some free agent signings. At least two or so.


Hindsight bias. How did that 2014 class look after their rookie seasons?
I see what you are saying but keep in mind that I always liked Allen's free agent and draft class so it's not hindsight if I always liked Allen's draft and free agent class file 2014.


So that's just personal bias. Not backed by fact.

Anyway, one thing to note about the 2016 draft class is that we added two picks to the 2017 draft class. That will be big for us this year.
How can it be biased if it's actually true? It's not an option, it's a fact that the 2014 offseaon was a good one for Bruce Allen both in FA & the draft.


If you felt better about the 2014 draft class than the 2016 draft class immediately after the draft, before any games were played, that is personal bias. If you felt better about the 2014 draft class than the 2016 draft class immediately after their rookie seasons, it is still personal bias, because, in reality, their impacts were about equal.

If you felt better about the 2014 draft class after watching them play for 3 seasons than you felt about the 2016 draft class after watching them play for 1, then that is hindsight bias, because you should only be judging the draft classes based on equal points in their respective timelines.

So which is it?
You're telling me you didn't like drafting a OLB/DE, an OT, a C/G, a CB that most said would have went round 1 in the 2015 draft if we had went back to school?

It's not that I knew those players were going to work out after we drafted them in 2014, it's that almost all Redskins fans liked the positions we drafted better because we addressed things like OL, DE/OLB and everyone said we got a steal in the 4th with the CB we selected.


So you're happy coming out of a draft when we draft for need? Forget the player. All about the position. Got it.

By the way everyone said we got a steal with Fuller (would have been a 1st rounder without the injury) too.
No that's not what I said. No point in discussing it though because like Mknight you either don't understand what I'm trying to say or you just want to spin it however you want to fit your own narrative.

As for Fuller, I think he'll still be good but unlike Breeland, Fuller didn't show it as much in his rookie season so again, advantage Allen's 2014 offseaon over McCloughan's 2015 & 16 offseasons and Allen took Breeland a round later than McCloughan took Fuller.


Alright, I'm out.


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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^ Says the guy who thinks the 2015 & 16 drafts were better than the 2014... Rolling Eyes ... Maybe combined! Laughing
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HTTRG3Dynasty


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone is willing to have an intelligent discussion on our draft classes without irrationally comparing guys who have been in the league three years with guys who have been in the league only one or two, let me know.
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MKnight82


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
If anyone is willing to have an intelligent discussion on our draft classes without irrationally comparing guys who have been in the league 3 years with guys who have been in the league only one or two, let me know.
The month he was banned was the best this website has been since I joined.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HTTRG3Dynasty wrote:
If anyone is willing to have an intelligent discussion on our draft classes without irrationally comparing guys who have been in the league three years with guys who have been in the league only one or two, let me know.
Sure, you first.
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